Plan B

[example1]

The Yankees have to win the WS. Anything less is a disappointment. I don't see that expectation changing for the life of Teixeira, A-Rod or Sabathia's contracts.

 

They will not do that.

 

Clearly "only" one or two World Series titles won't be enough, given how many people remain disappointed with their teams performance even the year after they win a World Series. Most franchises can placate their fans with one WS, but not in NY, and not with a lot of Red Sox fans.

 

Personally, I'm pretty happy with a team that wins a few WS in a decade, but that's not enough for some. It certainly isn't enough for the Yankees.

[example1]

The expectation of the Yankees FO has been raised significantly. If they finish out of the $ this season' date=' Cashman will have plenty of time to write a book. If the Sox finish out of the $, the FO will have plenty of $ to go after the new crop of FAs. Certainly, they know thta they have not significantly improved their team. No one will lose a job over signing Penny, Smoltz or Baldelli. The Yanks' FO on the other hand will be more than slightly distraught if they crash and burn.[/quote']

 

Again, for most teams the $ is the postseason. Given that the Yankees made the postseason in 03, 04, 05, 06 and 07 but didn't make the WS, the $ for them is the "big prize". They don't believe that winning in the postseason is about a crap shoot, they think it can be won. Good luck to them with that. One bad start by Sabathia and Vurnett, and a mediocre start by Wang or Pettitte and they're out. They could have a team full of HOFs and run into a few other HOF caliber pitchers on opposing team and still lose. They don't get that. They think they stand outside the natural rules of the game.

[ORS]

26' date=' we had the second best bullpen in baseball last yr. That was with only having Marte in it for half the yr and having Ohlendorf in there for the first half. Also, we have Melancon and Robertson, two guys who I think will have a significant impact in the pen this yr. We have the reinforcements for the pen.[/quote']

Two years ago you were touting the Yankee pen after signing Farnsworth and the addition of that chucker Bruney. The Sox pen cleaned their clocks that year. Last year you were all for the Sox pen in the preseason while being hopeful your guys could put a good season together. You've been reminded every year about the folly of counting on any kind of performance from non-closers due to their huge variance in performance from year to year. My suggestion to you, given your track record with prognostication regarding bullpens, is you become a little more bearish on your pen, if only in the hope you don't condemn them to certain mediocrity.

[26 to 6]

26' date=' we had the second best bullpen in baseball last yr. That was with only having Marte in it for half the yr and having Ohlendorf in there for the first half. Also, we have Melancon and Robertson, two guys who I think will have a significant impact in the pen this yr. We have the reinforcements for the pen.[/quote']

Yeah I know that, but not every relief pitcher is cpable of being a shut-down setup guy or closer. I Who knows if Veras, Bruney, Marte, Robertson, Melancon, or even Betances are going to be able to step into that role immediately and succeed. Most guys need to get their feet wet a little bit and pitch in the middle innings. Look, I'm not advocating we move Joba to the pen and make him a permanent reliever. I agree that we should see how he handles starting out the season in the rotation and watch how he progresses throughout the course of the entire season. But if need be, and everything else allows for it I wouldn't be against moving Joba to the pen if say a division title or playoff spot depended on it. Anyone would be crazy to oppose that.

 

Fixed that for ya

lol Thank ya

[italstallianion]

I also figured Joba would benefit from being in the bullpen because it would prevent him from stretching out his innings total too much. Joba by definition is injury prone, and he's dominant enough and he has the stuff to be considered a "franchise player". What I mean is, if the Yankees can hold onto Joba for as long as they can...they will. You'd have slightly different rules for your rent-a-players and your franchise players, and I think that the Yankees need to protect Joba as much as possible.

 

Seeing as he had arm trouble last year, and his inning total wasn't that high, I think it'd be wise to have him spend some time as a starter and as a reliever to increase his inning total a little bit, rather than throwing him into the water with a huge inning increase. Huge inning increases on a year to year basis are typical red flags for injury, and the Yankees would probably want to avoid an injury to Joba of all players.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Yeah I know that, but not every relief pitcher is cpable of being a shut-down setup guy or closer. I Who knows if Veras, Bruney, Marte, Robertson, Melancon, or even Betances are going to be able to step into that role immediately and succeed. Most guys need to get their feet wet a little bit and pitch in the middle innings. Look, I'm not advocating we move Joba to the pen and make him a permanent reliever. I agree that we should see how he handles starting out the season in the rotation and watch how he progresses throughout the course of the entire season. But if need be, and everything else allows for it I wouldn't be against moving Joba to the pen if say a division title or playoff spot depended on it. Anyone would be crazy to oppose that.

 

 

lol Thank ya

 

And with that... we now see 26 to 6 knows more about the Yankees Pen than the "self-professed" guru, Jax. Nice post.

[Dipre]

I also figured Joba would benefit from being in the bullpen because it would prevent him from stretching out his innings total too much. Joba by definition is injury prone, and he's dominant enough and he has the stuff to be considered a "franchise player". What I mean is, if the Yankees can hold onto Joba for as long as they can...they will. You'd have slightly different rules for your rent-a-players and your franchise players, and I think that the Yankees need to protect Joba as much as possible.

 

Seeing as he had arm trouble last year, and his inning total wasn't that high, I think it'd be wise to have him spend some time as a starter and as a reliever to increase his inning total a little bit, rather than throwing him into the water with a huge inning increase. Huge inning increases on a year to year basis are typical red flags for injury, and the Yankees would probably want to avoid an injury to Joba of all players.

 

I agree with your line of thinking, the whole huge inning increase or "year after effect" is actually a very common cause of injury on young pitchers, and i'm sure the last thing the Yanks wanna see in 2009 is an injured Joba Chamberlain.

[diony]

Leave him as a starter until he Kerry Woods himself.

[BSN07]

Leave him as a starter until he Kerry Woods himself.

 

Brilliant.<_ this quote speaks volumes......>

 

If that is your opinion of how to handle him, you might as well leave him in the BP now, you'll get better value. And won't have to go though season after season of him pitching 10 games then out by June.

[italstallianion]

Idk, I hope the Yankees do put him as a starter until he Kerry Wood's himself. That'll be one less thing to worry about at the end of the season.

[Dipre]

Idk' date=' I hope the Yankees do put him as a starter until he Kerry Wood's himself. That'll be one less thing to worry about at the end of the season.[/quote']

 

Indeed. But i suppose the Yankees are smarter than some of their fans......

[diony]

Brilliant.<_ this quote speaks volumes......>

 

If that is your opinion of how to handle him, you might as well leave him in the BP now, you'll get better value. And won't have to go though season after season of him pitching 10 games then out by June.

 

What's the problem with leaving him as a starter until he proves us he can't handle it? :dunno:

[BSN07]

Indeed. But i suppose the Yankees are smarter than some of their fans......

 

I wouldn't go that far since Cashman basically copied "Gom's plan to fix the Yankees";)

[Dojji]

What's the problem with leaving him as a starter until he proves us he can't handle it? :dunno:

 

Beceause you're missing the other significance of what it means for a guy to Kerry Wood himself. Or perhaps more to MY point, to Mark Prior himself.

 

By leaving a guy who was drafted with preexisting health concerns to put a ton of mileage on his arm you are running the risk of, when he returns to the bullpen, him being so injury prone, or his arm being tired, he goes Gagne or in some other way proves unreliable. Whereas by playing it safe you, at least in principle, make sure that even though he's just a reliever, he's a healthy reliever who will be able to pitch for several years and possibly even close for you once Mo inevitably retires.

[italstallianion]

Yeah, in a few years I'd be surprised if Chamberlain could pleasure himself without getting a concussion...or at least a splinter or a paper cut or something...

[TheKilo]

Long tenured members? Is that supposed to mean something>? Just because you shat 5,000 hideous posts onto a message board means you are worthy of some sort of preferential treatment? What the hell are you doing on a Red Sox message board? Have you been disowned by even the filth of all fandom...Yankee fans?

 

I see many of you bragging about having more time here..who cares? I had 2K posts at SOSH before being banned for calling one of their mods a fat, elitist pig. He was.. It is MUCH harder to get a membership and STAY there. They ban you for putting up incorrect statistics so please spare me the "I am a LONG tenured member at SoxTalk"..

 

I am quite confident I have more baseball knowledge than anyone on this site. You can save the haughty attitude.

 

And again...your screen name is deceiving since you barely saw any of the titles and are bragging about teams you knew nothing about.

 

lol totally NomahsHammSammich

[diony]

Beceause you're missing the other significance of what it means for a guy to Kerry Wood himself. Or perhaps more to MY point, to Mark Prior himself.

 

By leaving a guy who was drafted with preexisting health concerns to put a ton of mileage on his arm you are running the risk of, when he returns to the bullpen, him being so injury prone, or his arm being tired, he goes Gagne or in some other way proves unreliable. Whereas by playing it safe you, at least in principle, make sure that even though he's just a reliever, he's a healthy reliever who will be able to pitch for several years and possibly even close for you once Mo inevitably retires.

 

A tricep strain/tendinitis in 2006. A hamstring strain in 2007. And, the shoulder issue last season. That's not the end of the world, not yet.

[italstallianion]

A tricep strain/tendinitis in 2006. A hamstring strain in 2007. And' date=' the shoulder issue last season. That's not the end of the world, not yet.[/quote']

 

 

Yeah but didn't he have 2 surgeries while he was in college, before getting drafted? Or are the 06-07 the things to which you were referring?

[diony]

Yeah but didn't he have 2 surgeries while he was in college' date=' before getting drafted?[/quote']

 

Nope.

[BSN07]

A tricep strain/tendinitis in 2006. A hamstring strain in 2007. And' date=' the shoulder issue last season. That's not the end of the world, not yet.[/quote']

 

 

 

You really can't see the pattern emerging?

[example1]

You really can't see the pattern emerging?

 

As Red Sox fans we can only hope something will happen to Joba. He looked pretty dominant last year and just about any time he's on the mound. His stuff is overpowering and he has a good head on his shoulders. The fact that he has injury concerns is the only thing that's keeping me from being really worried about him. I'm kind of worried though.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think his arm will be fine if we treat it properly. You cannot monkey around with his role mid season yr in and yr out like we had been. I honestly think that we'll limit the innings this yr and see him stay healthy. We also have the luxury to skip him at a moments notice if there is even a twinge.

[Dojji]

You do? Who pitches instead if you take advantage of that luxury?

[Mr Crunchy]

Ya,more of the Joba rules ******** that gets this kid dl'd every year is exactly what the dr ordered here.

either hes a pitcher or hes not.

playng games with his role on a month to month basis will eventually send this kid into a shell then add into the equation that he hasnt been paid yet and all of a sudden this year he is loaded with pressure to perform..

he'll be throwing 100 in an april game in detroit when its 32 degrees and raining and then he will feel tightness in his forearm,girardi will come to the mound and then we can here about a 15day trip to the dl and a 3 month rehab in scranton...again

they f***ed this guy around year in and year out and he still hasnt shown he can stay on the field all year long,when he gets to pitch with carol burnett he will learn the finer points of what to do with all that time off and how to prepare every 3 years when your contract comes due.

[BoSox21]

A midge will probably fly up his ass this season and put him on the DL

[diony]

Ya' date='more of the Joba rules ******** that gets this kid [b']dl'd every year[/b] is exactly what the dr ordered here.

either hes a pitcher or hes not.

 

Every year? It was his first full season in the majors.

[jacksonianmarch]

You do? Who pitches instead if you take advantage of that luxury?

 

Hughes, or we can skip his start based upon off days

[BSN07]

As Red Sox fans we can only hope something will happen to Joba. He looked pretty dominant last year and just about any time he's on the mound. His stuff is overpowering and he has a good head on his shoulders. The fact that he has injury concerns is the only thing that's keeping me from being really worried about him. I'm kind of worried though.

 

I never like to see anyone go down with an injury for a extended period or a career for that matter. Having your best possible teams face each other is far more entertaining then facing a mediocore team. Even if that means losing. But if Joba, Burnett or someone else went down, I'd make my jokes, but never anything with mailice intended.

[Mr Crunchy]

1st full year, 2nd year pitching in ny and how many injuries has he had in the last 3 summers?

if youre prone to getting hurt it dont matter if you're in bumbledick nebraska or nyc

[BSN07]

Every year? It was his first full season in the majors.

 

But you just went through his injury history dating back to 2006:wtf: