Plan B

[TheKilo]

I have made mention of "Plan B" many times in other threads, but would like to get other peoples' opinions on what the Red Sox need to do the rest of the offseason to get the roster set for the start of next season.

 

Here's mine:

 

Bowden to TEX for Saltalamacchia

Resign Tek for 2/12

Lugo+ to DET for Willis and Marcus Thames

Sign Smoltz to a one year, incentive laden deal (worth maybe $10 million)

 

Pray Ortiz and Lowell are healthy.

[Cocos Disciples]

1. Trade Bowden for Saltalamacchia OR Make some sort of trade for Miguel Montero and Eric Byrnes

2. Re-sign Tek for 2x7

3. Sign Ben Sheets for 2x14.

 

Lineup:

Ellsbury CF

Pedroia 2B

Ortiz DH

Youkilis 1B

Drew RF

Bay LF

Lowell 3B

Lowrie SS

Saltalamacchia/Montero/Tek C

 

Rotation:

Beckett

Lester

Matsuzaka

Sheets

Wakefield

 

Bullpen:

Papelbon

Okajima

Delcarmen

Masterson

Lopez

Ramirez

Littleton

 

Bench:

The Other Platooning Catcher

Bailey

Lugo (if not traded to Arizona)

Byrnes

[naptownsoxfan]

Bowden for Salty...check

Tek 2/12...check

Lugo + to Det for Willis and Thames...not so much

Sign Smoltz 1year...check.

 

I don't want any part of the D-train, 9.38 Era 18k 35bb...devloped serious controll issues.

Maybe Lugo for Thames straight up?

[TheKilo]

The whole point of trading Lugo to DET for Willis is a swap of bad contracts.

 

Thames would be an excellent 4th OF - RHH off the bench, destroys LHP.

 

Lugo + Kris Johnson for Thames + Willis is a win for both teams, IMO.

[Cocos Disciples]

IMO if you can use Lugo in a trade like the Arizona one I suggested to get a catcher, that's even better.

[BSN07]

Bowden for a Catcher I like. Whether it be Salty/Teagarden or the package deal of Lugo and Bowden for Montero and Byrnes.

 

Sheets on a 1 or a 2 year deal might not be too bad.

 

Depending who and what is involved, I could be sold on Peavy to the 5th spot.

 

I don't see any marquee types coming this off season though. Unless maybe the economy forces some teams to make previously unavalable players, available.

[BoSox21]

if Lugo goes to Detroit, what do you do about a utility infielder? Gil Velazquez....no thanks....Alex Cora.....not so much

[Cocos Disciples]

Depending who and what is involved, I could be sold on Peavy to the 5th spot.

 

He would be way too expensive IMO.

 

if Lugo goes to Detroit' date=' what do you do about a utility infielder? Gil Velazquez....no thanks....Alex Cora.....not so much[/quote']

 

Theo+Trio have a man crush on Cora so it would probably be him.

[BSN07]

Oakland might want to move Crosby. He wouldn't be bad. Eckstein wouldn't be horrible either. Those are just a couple off the top of my head. But i'm sure theres someone out there that could handle it.

 

Or they could aquire a SS, and have Lowrie be super utility guy.

[BSN07]

He would be way too expensive IMO.

 

 

 

Theo+Trio have a man crush on Cora so it would probably be him.

 

I agree, but like I said, it would depend on what's involved.

[BSN07]

Anyone like the idea of Fielder, and maybe Hall for utility/RH bat of the bench?

 

 

I'm throwing names out there for sake of discussion, so don't blast me for this idea:D

[TheKilo]

JJ HRDY LULZ

[Cocos Disciples]

Oakland might want to move Crosby. He wouldn't be bad. Eckstein wouldn't be horrible either. Those are just a couple off the top of my head. But i'm sure theres someone out there that could handle it.

 

Or they could aquire a SS, and have Lowrie be super utility guy.

 

Jed Lowrie is better than Bobby Crosby. Eckstein sucks too. No thanks.

 

Anyone like the idea of Fielder, and maybe Hall for utility/RH bat of the bench?

 

 

I'm throwing names out there for sake of discussion, so don't blast me for this idea:D

 

Do I like the idea? Yes. But it's about as realistic as Gom banging dreilly.

[BSN07]

Jed Lowrie is better than Bobby Crosby. Eckstein sucks too. No thanks.

 

But as utility guys with limited playing time?

 

 

Do I like the idea? Yes. But it's about as realistic as Gom banging dreilly.

 

 

 

 

LOL

[Cocos Disciples]

But as utility guys with limited playing time?

 

My mistake, I read your post as having Crosby/Eckstein starting and Lowrie on the bench. I still don't really like either player, and I'd like a little more positional flexibility when it comes to bench players.

[BSN07]

What about Hall? He can play IF/OF.

[TheKilo]

Why would the Brewers just give Fielder/Hall away?

[BSN07]

Why would the Brewers just give Fielder/Hall away?

 

What makes you think I think the Brewers would just give them away?

 

There where rumors earlier this offseason about them shopping Fielder. So I threw his name out there as a what if...

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah Fielder is one of the premier players in the league and he still has a while before he hits FA.

[naptownsoxfan]

Fielder, sure why not I would give them Lugo+Bowden....I am sure they would jump at that... lol.

[naptownsoxfan]

What about Jeff Keppinger from the Reds? He would be nice depth.

[Cocos Disciples]

Willie Bloomquist would be an interesting and cheap FA acquisition.

[diony]

IMO if you can use Lugo in a trade like the Arizona one I suggested to get a catcher' date=' that's even better.[/quote']

 

Montero and Byrnes are a good fit for the Red Sox. But I don't think the Diamondbacks would be interested in Lugo, since they've showed this offseason they're not going to spend much money. They don't want to add payroll, unloading Byrnes' contract would be a blessing for them.

 

Let's not forget Byrnes was injured most of the season. This is a guy that hitted .286/.353/.460 with 21 HRs and 50 SBs. He can be a 4th OF and a insurance if Ellsbury fails, or if Drew goes to the DL.

 

The difference between Miguel Montero and Salty/Teagarden is not so huge in terms of upside. He's a solid all-around catching prospect. A quick scouting report:

 

Assets: A good athlete for a catcher, he has a very live bat. Also shows solid mobility behind the plate. His home-run potential is major for a backstop.

 

Flaws: Makes a lot of mistakes behind the dish. Needs to work on anticipating base-stealers. As a hitter, he could stand to shorten his swing.

 

Career potential: An offense-first starting catcher.

 

He's playing in the VWL and hitting .298/.348/.539 with 8 HRs in 39 games, he has the ability to play 1B and 3B too (in the VWL so far).

 

Tek + Montero and you get a .800 OPS from the catching position easily.

[naptownsoxfan]

Not to stay with the Reds but...Jay Bruce.

[Cocos Disciples]

Tek + Montero and you get a .800 OPS from the catching position easily.

 

Yup, Tek was great against lefties last year: .284/.378/.484. If we could primarily use him against lefties, that would maximize his production.

[Cocos Disciples]

Not to stay with the Reds but...Jay Bruce.

 

Uhh definitely not happening.

[naptownsoxfan]

Uhh definitely not happening.

 

I know...just throwing it out there.

[example1]

My Plan B:

 

I've put a lot of thought into this recently.

 

1) The more I think about it, the more I don't think we should be throwing Bowden's name around to get us whatever piece we want. Unless we're quite sure we're talking about the catcher of the future, I don't think we should move Bowden at all. We've drafted a number of pitchers over the past few years, and few have had the milb success that he's had. He had a nice mlb start last year and is ready to start contributing on the MLB level, at 21 years of age. His motion is unorthodox, but he has a solid repetoire and was one of those guys in HS that most people believed would be a big-league pitcher. Looking at his frame and numbers tells me he could be a workhorse, if he is able to stay healthy. I see him as a #2 or #3 pitcher on an average team, maybe a #3 or 4 on the Sox ultimately. That's not a bad thing to have.

 

2) I would look for another catching option before re-signing Tek. Ultimately I would not worry about getting that next-gen catcher if it isn't obvious where he is going to come from. Don't let Texas extort because in the next two years they may be in a better position to get one. If the deal is right get it, but otherwise don't overspend on it. I think this is a spot where signing a type B FA would be fine, or trading some lower level parts for a catcher like the deal with Eric Byrnes and Montero, which may cost more but could net them some useful pieces.

 

3) Get a backup 1B who can hit a bit, so Youkilis can be insurance for Lowell. Not sure who that would be at this point, but it seems like 1B is an easier position to fill at this point than 3B is.

 

4) I think I advocated earlier for signing Sheets or Lowe, but I'm retracting that. I want them to keep as many of their draft picks as possible and get as many top picks as possible. Let Buchholz and Bowden battle for the #5 spot. At their cost they will provide a good enough start for this team to win consistently, they don't carry the health concerns of those other guys, and they won't cost the team draft picks. None of those pitchers will make the difference that a top pick could. EDIT: Penny is an unrestricted FA. He fits the mold of a highish upside pitcher who will need to pitch well to get a good contract and will not cost them a pick.

 

Overall I guess that's about it. I'm not too worried about SS, as I think that Lowrie is actually a very nice player who will be a key to their IF for a number of years (if he's not traded). They've drafted a number of SS recently, but none of them look very promising--it could be 3-4 years before Kelly is ready, if he stays at SS and if he doesn't pitch.

 

This FO sees no reason why they can't build a franchise that can have the majority of their talent come from within, and I support that vision. Currently they have Buchholz, Bowden, Lester, Masterson, Delcarmen, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, and Lowrie contributing or ready to contribute, and I see no reason to think they couldn't get that number up to 15 of their 25m roster with names like Bard, Tazawa, Anderson, Lin, Westmoreland, Middlebrooks, Reddick, Kalish, Hagadone, etc., working their way up the ranks. They clearly value draft picks and are centering their 'moneyball' approach (in this case, looking for the exploitable loophole) around getting as many draft picks as possible and developing players that way. I think it is smart and hope it continues.

[Dojji]

Salty's out the window. At least, Bowden for Salty is. It's no longer a seller's market for Texas, since Max Ramirez has options and they don't have anyone else left on their roster to humor thanks to the Laird trade.

 

There is no "Texas glut of catching talent" anymore. Salty and Teagarden splitting time as the catching tandem while Ramirez develops in AAA puts Texas firmly in control of any trade negotiations for Salty which means the discussion will be about Buchholz, probably Buchholz+, possibiy even Buchholz, Bard+, for either of Texas' two big name catchers.

 

Since acquiring Salty had no impact whatsoever either for or against Teixeira, the fact that no trade has been even seriously discussed -- not just with the Sox, but with anyone -- suggests that Texas seems pretty happy not to make any trades at all unless that trade allows them to retool their pitching staff instantly with multiple MLB-ready top prospects.

 

Now I'm not one to beat a tired old drum...

 

...ahh heck, who am I kidding?

 

I still think that when you combine available takent with price in dollars and/or prospects to put him on your team, making a salary-pickup deal for Johjima really is the best choice (or at least, the least bad choice) for this franchise. In all likelyhood the most we'd have to trade for him is a Chris Carter type and possibly a low-end RP. Based on contact rate and k/bb numbers a bounceback to 2006-'07 numbers seems to be much more likely than a failure to bounce back, or a regression.

[example1]

Salty's out the window. At least, Bowden for Salty is. It's no longer a seller's market for Texas, since Max Ramirez has options and they don't have anyone else left on their roster to humor thanks to the Laird trade.

 

There is no "Texas glut of catching talent" anymore. Salty and Teagarden splitting time as the catching tandem while Ramirez develops in AAA puts Texas firmly in control of any trade negotiations for Salty which means the discussion will be about Buchholz, probably Buchholz+, possibiy even Buchholz, Bard+, for either of Texas' two big name catchers.

 

This is insane. Nobody would give up a top pitching prospect for a catching prospect, let alone two pitching prospects and more to get a guy like Salty. That's why nothing like this will likely happen.

 

I still think that when you combine available takent with price in dollars and/or prospects to put him on your team, making a salary-pickup deal for Johjima really is the best choice (or at least, the least bad choice) for this franchise. In all likelyhood the most we'd have to trade for him is a Chris Carter type and possibly a low-end RP. Based on contact rate and k/bb numbers a bounceback to 2006-'07 numbers seems to be much more likely than a failure to bounce back, or a regression.

 

I've thought Carter would be a good fit for the Mariners for awhile now too. Jesus, when you have Cairo playing 1B for you, you know your team needs some offense.