Plan B

[Cocos Disciples]

But what if he doesn't get back to his 2006-07 form, which is basically a league average hitter? Then you're paying 8MM for a terrible player, have given up players and have the same problem in the 2009-10 off-season. I would rather get Montero and Byrnes in a trade; it gets us our future catcher and fills a hole for the 2009 (4th OF).

[Cocos Disciples]

Texas would probably do just Buchholz for Salty.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I like the Montero idea the best, as far as catching goes.

[jacksonianmarch]

Texas would probably do just Buchholz for Salty.

 

I have said it 100 times. Salty is an AWFUL catcher. He could develop into a dangerous hitter, but he is an awful catcher with an inaccurate arm and legs of stone behind the plate. If he were a 1b right now, which he should be, he would not be worth a Buchholz. To be honest with you, I'd go for Teagarden or Ramirez. Both are head and shoulders better as a catcher, and you dont want to spend a big time prospect on a player who you cannot be totally sure will be a catcher by the end of the yr.

[CrespoBlows]

 

Do I like the idea? Yes. But it's about as realistic as Gom banging dreilly.

 

New quote of the year.

[Dojji]

This is insane. Nobody would give up a top pitching prospect for a catching prospect' date=' let alone two pitching prospects and more to get a guy like Salty. That's why nothing like this will likely happen. [/quote']

 

It is insane knowing what we think we know about Buchholz and Bard. From the Texas Rangers' perspective it's hardly insane given what they think they know about Salty and Teagarden.

[Dojji]

But what if he doesn't get back to his 2006-07 form' date=' which is basically a league average hitter? Then you're paying 8MM for a terrible player, have given up players and have the same problem in the 2009-10 off-season. I would rather get Montero and Byrnes in a trade; it gets us our future catcher and fills a hole for the 2009 (4th OF).[/quote']

 

The difference is that you still have Bowden if you trade for Johjima. Pitching depth is worth taking a calculated risk on a mid-market catching contract. Any other catcher we pick up, including the raw young Saltalamacchia, has a chance to blow up in our faces too.

 

BTW -- a league average hitter with good defensive numbers as a catcher is a nice thing to have. There's every reason to believe that Johjima was pressing in 2008 and the contact rates betray no particular reason to ascribe his bad numbers to anything more than a combination of bad luck and asking too much power of a line drive bat.

[diony]

Why trade Bucholz or Bowden when the back end of your rotation includes Penny and Wakefield? It doesn't makes sense at all.

[Dojji]

Why trade Bucholz or Bowden when the back end of your rotation includes Penny and Wakefield? It doesn't makes sense at all.

 

Unfortunately, I agree with Diony. There's enough question marks in our rotation that we can't operate under the presumption that we have young pitching prospects to burn in trade. We've found out to our cost that you can't have too much pitching and that any depth you can amass will be useful to you over a season. Witness the 2006 season. With 2 more competent, big league starters we could have held on and at least finished second.

 

We have about the right number of pitchers right now with Penny in the fold. We can cope with 2 serious pitching injuries and a minor league disappointment at the same time -- that's about right where you want it in order to give yourself some proper insurance.

[Cocos Disciples]

Legit question: What would we have to give up for Montero+Byrnes? I haven't heard much in the way of rumors.

[jacksonianmarch]

Couple things.

 

1. Montero is the only real catching option they have. So it will cost a lot to get him.

2. The Dbags are in financial dire straights and taking Byrnes contract without any other big money going the other way would make things easier.

 

That being said, I would think that a pitcher, preferably one with no MLB experience (hence more organization yrs of control like Bowden) would need to be the centerpiece. Add onto that a young catcher who is close to MLB ready (like Kottaras) and I think it could get done.

 

So I think it would need to be...

 

Byrnes and Montero for Bowden and Kottaras

[Cocos Disciples]

1. Montero is the only real catching option they have. So it will cost a lot to get him.

 

What about Chris Snyder?

[jacksonianmarch]

I had heard that they want to convert Snyder to 3b or 1b since his bat is so advanced they dont want to have him wear down at C. That may be an incorrect rumor, but that is what I have seen being talked about this entire offseason on the dbags front. That being said, Snyder is an intriguing option and easily could be their starting C if Montero were to be dealt

[Dojji]

Byrnes and Montero for Bowden and Kottaras

 

 

What a horrible deal for the Sox.

[jacksonianmarch]

why would that be horrible? Kottaras would be without a position and Bowden would be included to get the sox a young, power hitting catcher.

[TheKilo]

The Sox shouldn't be punished for taking on Byrnes' albatross of a deal, though. That's the benefit for the Dbacks.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is. But at the same time it allows the sox to flex their financial muscle to help offset the talent going in the opposite direction for a young, up and coming catcher with a solid bat.

[TheKilo]

Why not just do Bowden for Montero, and sign Baldelli?

[jacksonianmarch]

The DBacks are gonna try and stick you with a salary. Their financial status is awful. Hell, they couldnt even offer RJ more than 3 mil and he's on the precipice of history. Its tough when your fan base doesnt care.

[example1]

Why not just do Bowden for Montero' date=' and sign Baldelli?[/quote']

 

Again, without any cynicism or snarkiness on my part, sell me on Montero. Why is everyone so high on him. I've read my BP and looked at the stats, he seems like a fairly high upside guy but nothing astounding. I'm open to feedback...

[TheKilo]

Again' date=' without any cynicism or snarkiness on my part, sell me on Montero. Why is everyone so high on him. I've read my BP and looked at the stats, he seems like a fairly high upside guy but nothing astounding. I'm open to feedback...[/quote']

 

A good athlete for a catcher, he has a very live bat. Also shows solid mobility behind the plate. His home-run potential is major for a backstop.

 

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Miguel_Montero/

 

I'm not suggesting moving Bowden, but he has potential and as a young C could be a fit for the Sox.

 

NWIH do I trade Bowden+ for Byrnes' contract and Montero.

[example1]

That's what I thought Kilo. Lots of upside, but I just don't think the Sox should trade well-developed players for a catcher that could end up being somewhere in the MLB-starter on average-MLB team range.

 

I think we're many here are at risk of underestimating how good Bowden can be in 5 years or so. He's got a big frame, a good FB, a few good pitches and looks like a bulldog on the mound. He's also young for his level of development.

 

I would be fine with this team getting a hold-over and making a serious offer to Joe Mauer in two years if he becomes a FA.

[Dojji]

Well said on Bowden. I love his stuff and makeup and think he might just be the best pitcher's pitcher in our system right now.

[BoSox21]

I would be fine with this team getting a hold-over and making a serious offer to Joe Mauer in two years if he becomes a FA.

 

Are you fine with a holdover provided they GET Mauer or simply a holdover and a serious offer to Mauer? Cause outside of a trade in 2010 and a signed extension wherever he goes before the season ends, make no mistake that he'll be a Yankee

[Soxfan1]

Are the chances of signing Sheets higher if Varitek gets a deal somewhere else and we get another teams first round pick?

[TheKilo]

Well said on Bowden. I love his stuff and makeup and think he might just be the best pitcher's pitcher in our system right now.

 

Is he the best at pitching with a lead, or is he best at not giving up runs?

[Dipre]

Apparently, the point is he's the best "pitcher" in the system.

 

As in, knows his stuff, picks his spots, and doesn't try to blow away hitters.

 

I don't think it's necessarily about not giving up runs or pitching with a lead.

[rician blast]

Are you fine with a holdover provided they GET Mauer or simply a holdover and a serious offer to Mauer? Cause outside of a trade in 2010 and a signed extension wherever he goes before the season ends' date=' make no mistake that he'll be a Yankee[/quote']

 

I think there is a lot of substance behind your post...if Mauer hits the market, IMO he goes to the Yanks, hands down.

[Dojji]

Apparently, the point is he's the best "pitcher" in the system.

 

As in, knows his stuff, picks his spots, and doesn't try to blow away hitters.

 

I don't think it's necessarily about not giving up runs or pitching with a lead.

 

Kilo is going after me for a long-ago criticism of Buchholz that he couldn't hold a lead. Only thing is instead of "hold with a lead" Kilo's snarkfest always turns somehow into "pitching with a lead" so basically he's going after me for a long-dead strawman of his own devising.

 

And yes, most of what I hear Bowden praised for is what you might call pitcher's skills. Command, makeup, decision making, and mound presence.

[TheKilo]

You said the most important job of a pitcher is to not give up a lead. I said it's not to give up runs.

 

Don't hate because you were wrong.