With AJ and CC in NYC now does that make them the fav. in the east?

[TheKilo]

The quote about the Yankees spending on his part not yours is proposterous! The Angels didn't re-sign K-rod at a 3 year 37 mil bargain. My point is if you don't spend your not going to be in it year after year. The Yankees want to win and you know what? I respect them for going out there and trying. The Redsox are the second richest team year after year team salary wise. Facts our owner is worried about the f***ing race cars Yankees are worried about horses atop the rotation. Thats why we are going down.

 

4th last year

[TheKilo]

We aren't that good right now.

 

We won 95 games losing a month of Ortiz, Drew and Lowell, and Beckett.

 

I feel like I've told you this many times before...

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

1. Doubt it.

2. Wakefield is a really good back end starter, and I bet Masterson is your #5.

3. If we get Tex, the bottom of the order could be Bay-Lowrie-Catcher.

4. He's declining, but not done. He was hurt most of last season and should be better.

5. If you were trying to type "Wakefold" you could have at least spell-checked. Timlin is gone. Don't really see the Lopez hate.

6. It's December 13.

 

1. I hope your right.

2. I beg to differ/ I like Masterson's guts out of the pen but we might have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

3. If that happens I'll put on a Santa hat on and be the biggest homer on this board. I am a huge Teixeira fan.

4. Repeat of 1.

5. Wakefold yes, my error there/Timlin will be back to f*** with us you watch/Don't hate him but he gags.

6. It's December 14th.

[cobra24]

No doubt. But here's my theory.

 

1.They are playing the catchers market by ear. Thats not a position you f*** around with.

2. The bottom of the rotation stinks. Wakefield, Buccholz is awful! Bowden I only seen once. So basically I've seen enough of Fakefield after a pair of UNACCEPTABLE game 4 outings in consecutive years. And Buccholz is too small to hold up in MLB.

3. The bottom of the order can't hit.

4. Ortiz is done bank it.

5. Epsteins loyalty to royal chokers ala Wakefoield, Timlin and Nopez.

6. No improvments for the second straight year.

 

Yes we need a catcher and im sure well get one before the 09 season starts. dont forget buchholz had a No-hitter and we can thank whoever tried to change buchholz throwing slot or whatever they tried to do. i think we will be fine in time. he is still very young.

 

Wakefield is a good 5 in are rotation. he never gets hurt and well see 200+ innings and 10 to 12 wins.

[Cocos Disciples]

5. Wakefold yes, my error there/Timlin will be back to f*** with us you watch/Don't hate him but he gags.

6. It's December 14th.

 

5. No really, Timlin is gone.

6. I've made a huge mistake.

[cobra24]

Its still the 13 here

[BoSox21]

Timlin will be back to f*** with us you watch

 

Epstein said he told Mike Timlin at the end of the season that "we came to a mutual understanding that Boston probably wouldn't be the best fit for him. By the way what a career that guy had. I think he was my first free-agent signing."

 

Stop making up lies to support your stupid arguments. Ramirez has already replaced Timlin

 

This remains a team that won 95 games last year with major injuries to Drew, Lowell and Ortiz along with an off-year by Beckett, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE f***ING YANKEES HAVE DONE IN DECEMBER

[example1]

It is also a team that should have won a few more based on run differential. They had one of the best run differentials in all of baseball.

[Cocos Disciples]

It is also a team that should have won a few more based on run differential. They had one of the best run differentials in all of baseball.

 

Yes, the best in the AL.

[example1]

Largely because the injury bug hit us hard. Losing 1 and 1a in your rotation will do that to you. If both the yankees and sox were healthy' date=' fully healthy, this past yr it would have been a close race to the finish, and the rays would have finished 3rd. [b']I highly doubt that that Rays team would have beaten us both out if the yankees had Wang for the whole yr, Joba in the rotation without the arm issues, Hughes without the fracture rib, Posada behind the dish, ARod for the whole yr, and Matsui at DH. [/b] I also doubt that the Rays beat out the sox without a full yr from Schilling, Lowell, Papi, Beckett, and Drew.

 

Right, but they didn't have those guys, and the results were what they were. A team is only as good as its W-L record and that was my point. A team can look really nice on paper but if its guys get injured or if they have a down year then they fail to live up to 'expectations' and all the writing you do doesn't matter.

 

The Rays beat a healthy Sox team in the playoffs and they were at least as good or better than the Sox. They're a good team.

 

 

 

correction: Posada WASNT there last yr.

 

But he was there in 2001, and 2002 and 2003 and 2004 and 2005 and 2006, right?

 

It isnt just the head to head, though. It is all about how we do vs the rest of the league. Remember, our rotation was in the shithole with guys like Rasner and Ponson starting games vs you guys and we still split the season series 9-9. It is about how we do vs the rest of the east, the central, the west, interleague etc.

 

Yes, it is. It is a 162 game season and all of the games matter. I could go down the list of Red Sox players and talk about why they are a good team and could justify why they are better than just about every team except the Yankees, but that would do nothing about the fact that every team loses 50 games, wins 50 games, and has 50 games that are toss ups that make the season a success or a failure.

 

The yankee money advantage will help significantly if we spend it wisely.

 

It actually helps even if they don't spend it wisely. We all know that they haven't spent it wisely, but then you write about them making the playoffs for a decade and a half. The two are not unrelated.

 

I think investing in pitching, especially younger, high power, high end pitching is a good idea. In yrs past, we were going for the 40+ age club as well as signing contact pitchers with sketchy health issues. At least the guys we are going for nowadays will blow you away if they are healthy.

 

Sabathia is a young, hard throwing pitcher, yes. But he still wasn't a 'wise' purchase at the price and # of years it cost the Yankees. It isn't just the money... the Yankees have money. They had to increase the number of years to the point that he could be there well beyond his 'ace' status. I understand the move and think it was necessary, but if they hadn't been loaded with elderly pieces of crap the past decade or so they could have had younger, less aged arms for a whole lot less.

 

Nothing like hearing Pavano is coming back and then watching him throw 91mph sinkers down the middle all game long. When AJ or CC are pitching, we'll be seeing some serious cheese.

 

I agree. They are better than Pavano.

 

What will be impressive is when you come in to the Bronx for a 4 game series and have no Rasner's or Ponson's to give you an easy game. Imagine coming to NY for a 4 game and seeing CC, Wang, Burnett and Joba in 4 straight.

 

If they're healthy then it will be impressive and the Sox will be happy to win 2 of 4 games against them. But you have to realize, that the Yankees have always been intimidating to Sox fans. This is nothing new. This is no different than when they went and got Giambi after his MVP season and added A-Rod when nobody could believe it. It just went on and on with them getting the top available FAs out there and the Sox having to fight against them despite that. Every year the Yankees have an all-star lineup. It's not like we haven't seen dominant Yankees teams in the past.

 

The yankees do spend more on their players, that much is true. But lets not paint the sox as being a poor team, cmon now.

 

I didn't. In fact you quoted me saying precisely that.

 

 

Their 2004 team had only one home grown starter on it. They were a team of mercs who needed the ultimate merc to put them over the top. That being said, we do spend a lot and in recent yrs, that spending has been more bad than good. But I think we are following the sox blueprint for once. Develop the farm system, grab power pitchers capable of going deep into games and build a moneyball style offense with guys who grind ABs. Consider this the shot over the bow. The yankees are coming for the east title.

 

 

They were coming for the east title every other year, weren't they? I love your passion for your team, and I appreciate the thought you put into their moves. I really do.

 

But the Red Sox seem to put patience and thoughtfulness into just about every move they make, and I appreciate that aspect of it as much as winning. They weigh options and are very considerate, even when there are very strong factors influencing a quick or irrational move. The move to get Sabathia, though "sox like" in its push to get a power pitcher, is very much unlike a Sox move because they wouldn't pay a pitcher like Sabathia that much money. They just wouldn't. They would look around for better deals and not compromise the flexibility of the team simply to fill the need.

 

 

Honestly Jacko, I think the Yankees are a better team now. I just think they spent an assload of money to get there, and in a few years we may be talking about the weight of Burnett and CC's contracts and how that is limiting them. without a WS to show for it.

 

I'm a pretty firm believer that any FO has a responsibility to create a team that can win 95 games or so and get the team to the playoffs. What happens in the playoffs is basically a crap shoot, or is at least very dependent on an impossibly small sample size. If CC has two bad games in those series over the next few years, the Yankees could still be without a WS, but could have still been successful with over 100 wins.

 

Look at the Angels. They crushed both the Sox and the Yankees last year during the regular season, and acquired Teixeira when they had a 10 game lead in the AL West... but they were basically non-existent when they met the Sox in the playoffs. Who knows why? That's not the front office's fault, and probably couldn't have been prevented with 'better' acquisitions. It's just the way the game happens.

 

I personally think the Yankees were good enough without having to land both Sabathia and Burnett, and that the Yankees heavy spending on these two pitchers shows that they don't understand the amount of luck involved. It seems like the Yankees are trying to buy away the luck factor, and it seems shockingly brazen and ill informed IMO.

 

I'm honestly not trying to talk s*** about the Yankees. I hope you know that. Ultimately, I think they are good for baseball and I respect Yankee fans like yourself who truly love the game. I understand the Sox also outspend 90% of teams. I just think they also acknowledge that they aren't going to blow their budget or spend money stupidly (i.e., above the luxary tax threshold) to placate their fans.

[riverside sluggers]

Stop making up lies to support your stupid arguments. Ramirez has already replaced Timlin

 

This remains a team that won 95 games last year with major injuries to Drew, Lowell and Ortiz along with an off-year by Beckett, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE f***ING YANKEES HAVE DONE IN DECEMBER

 

I work with an old guy at my work who is just like this! Luckily I only see him on my breaks

 

Anyways, this is a team that won 95 games-- Dice K out for a month, Drew on the DL, Ortiz was out for basically 2 months, Manny not here for 2 months, Curt didnt pitch at all after signing a 1 year $8 million contract, Lowell on the DL twice, Beckett had missed time and was up and down, Wakefield as well... They went on to win 95 games, beat the favored Angels in 4 games... then they made a series against the Rays after being down 3-1, including that certain game where they came back from a 7-0 deficit from the 7th inning on

[naptownsoxfan]

The Yanks are not the best team in the AL East until they prove it on the field...they have looked good on paper in the past and have seen it blow up.

[Dipre]

The Yanks are not the best team in the AL East until they prove it on the field...they have looked good on paper in the past and have seen it blow up.

 

Besides of the fact that the OFFSEASON isn't over, because if the Sox land Tex and Lowe, and the Rays land Milton Bradley, then the teams will be completely even on paper.

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

Besides of the fact that the OFFSEASON isn't over' date=' because if the Sox land Tex and Lowe, and the Rays land Milton Bradley, then the teams will be completely even on paper.[/quote']

 

Then you woke up. Yankees getting Tex. Take it to the bank it's a lock.

[Cocos Disciples]

Then you woke up. Yankees getting Tex. Take it to the bank it's a lock.

 

lol k

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

lol k

 

Hey, If I'm wrong then I prove your case of being a moron. If I'm right it's clear this guy (Epstein) Has to be fired for being lost.

[naptownsoxfan]

Then you woke up. Yankees getting Tex. Take it to the bank it's a lock.

 

What? you are kidding right.

 

Why jump off of the Theo bandwagon he does have a pretty good track record of putting together teams last time I looked.

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

What? you are kidding right.

 

Why jump off of the Theo bandwagon he does have a pretty good track record of putting together teams last time I looked.

 

Yes he does. Willy Mo Pena. Eric Gagne. Tim Wakefield. Julio Lugo. Matt Clement. Mark Kotsay. Sean Casey. Mike Timin. Bartolo Colon... solid tades/signings/ re-signings eh?

[naptownsoxfan]

Yes he does. Willy Mo Pena. Eric Gagne. Tim Wakefield. Julio Lugo. Matt Clement. Mark Kotsay. Sean Casey. Mike Timin. Bartolo Colon... solid tades/signings/ re-signings eh?

 

2004 and 2007 should have got you to trust him a little...right?

[example1]

Then you woke up. Yankees getting Tex. Take it to the bank it's a lock.

 

If you're wrong will you leave?

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

If you're wrong will you leave?

 

Can I celebrate first then leave?

[example1]

You can just leave. You're just wasting everyone's time with arguments that are so obviously wrong and off base that its clear you're doing it on purpose. If you're going to actually bash Theo for deals that he has tried to make then take "Redsox20042007" off your f-ing title.

 

While you're at it, why don't you bash Kevin Garnett and say he's never won the title, slam Tom Brady and say he's never proven himself, say that NY Giants management doesn't have a clue about how to build a winning team, Michael Phelps continues to make stupid swimming decisions in the olympics and Barack Obama's campaign team has never won a single campaign in its life.

 

It's assanine and single handedly reduces the quality of this otherwise decent board.

[Cocos Disciples]

What? you are kidding right.

 

Why jump off of the Theo bandwagon he does have a pretty good track record of putting together teams last time I looked.

 

He was never on the bandwagon.

 

Yes he does. Willy Mo Pena. Eric Gagne. Tim Wakefield. Julio Lugo. Matt Clement. Mark Kotsay. Sean Casey. Mike Timin. Bartolo Colon... solid tades/signings/ re-signings eh?

 

Pena cost Arroyo, not a huge loss. No argument on Gagne, Lugo, Clement. Wakefield wasn't a Theo move (really now). Casey wasn't a bad move. He got tons of value out of Timlin. Colon was a low cost move. It didn't hurt. If you wanted to remain incognito maybe you should have picked new players to hate.

 

Looking at his GM history, here are some moves that helped the team:

Bill Mueller

David Ortiz

Keith Foulke

Hideki Okajima

JD Drew

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Todd Walker

Kevin Millar

Gabe Kapler (he helped and cost nothing)

Curt Schilling

Mark Bellhorn

Dave Roberts

Trading Nomar for Mientkiewicz and Cabrera

Mike Myers

 

Not enough? How about draft picks: Jonathan Papelbon, Dustin Pedroia, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. Plus the jury is still out on Buchholz, Bowden, Ellsbury, Lars, etc.

 

If you're wrong will you leave?

 

Of course he won't.

[26 to 6]

The Yanks are not the best team in the AL East until they prove it on the field...they have looked good on paper in the past and have seen it blow up.

Truer words have not been spoken. Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I think we need to address more than just the front end of our pitching staff to be the best in the division. Maybe add an arm to the pen (unless we decide to put Joba back there) and add Manny.

 

Then you woke up. Yankees getting Tex. Take it to the bank it's a lock.

I'm a die-hard Yankee fan and I don't even want Teixeira. Granted he's a great first baseman, but we have to chill out at some point. I don't like a 7-8 year deal for that kind of money for anyone. Besides, we need first base vacant in the coming years for either Jeter or Posada. Just give me Manny and I'll be happy.

[example1]

I'm a die-hard Yankee fan and I don't even want Teixeira. Granted he's a great first baseman' date=' but we have to chill out at some point. [b']I don't like a 7-8 year deal for that kind of money for anyone. [/b]Besides, we need first base vacant in the coming years for either Jeter or Posada. Just give me Manny and I'll be happy.

 

Absolutely. I think a 7-8 year deal is appropriate for one, maybe two players on a team, probably just one. It is your franchise player, the guy you just know will be with the team for that long.

[Gom]

Absolutely. I think a 7-8 year deal is appropriate for one' date=' maybe two players on a team, probably just one. It is your franchise player, the guy you just know will be with the team for that long.[/quote']

 

Really?

 

What about Jeter and Arod? I think long-term deals for position players, especially corner spots, are acceptable.

[example1]

Jeter and A-Rod were the "maybe two" I was thinking of. If Jeter weren't a beloved Yankee he wouldn't deserve it. He's not a 19m a year player.

[Cocos Disciples]

CC makes three!

[Gom]

Jeter and A-Rod were the "maybe two" I was thinking of. If Jeter weren't a beloved Yankee he wouldn't deserve it. He's not a 19m a year player.

 

First of all...it is a bad idea to give a long-term contract for an "up the middle player" for a player on the wrong side of 30. Those are young men, athletic positions. I'd give a long term deal to a 1B or RF much more readily than a SS or a CF. Just common sense.

 

Secondly, the deal for Sabathia is $69 million for 3 years. Don't kid yourself. If he does well, or just maintains the status quo, he's out. If he hates NY, he's out. The current trend is to opt out, and he's a very safe bet to opt out.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah and that's why I like the opt-out. If he gives you 3 Sabathia-like years and bounces, great deal for you guys, since he is not getting better after that.