Yankees decline arb on all free agents

[diony]

I don't buy that they don't want him for a second. He's the best RF available. I think they are trying to leverage for a lower AAV' date=' but an arb offer would have been at little risk. If he accepts, they keep the best guy available at a position of need for only one year. Yeah, it's a little pricey, but it bridges a gap to the 2010 FA class which is much deeper.[/quote']

 

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/01/no-talks-with-abreu/

[ORS]

If Fat Pete is right, then not only does it not make sense, but their FO is flat out stupid if they prefer Xavier Nady over Abreu in RF for 2009 because of a few dollars. Actually, that's kind of nice to know.

[diony]

If Fat Pete is right' date=' then not only does it not make sense, but their FO is flat out stupid if they prefer Xavier Nady over Abreu in RF for 2009 because of a few dollars. Actually, that's kind of nice to know.[/quote']

 

Is not about a 'few dollars' or Nady vs Abreu, is about paying $17 million for a player that doesn't deserves them. He'll be lucky if he can get 10-12 in the open market.

 

Now if the Yanks go out and sign Ramirez or Dunn, everyone will forget about Abreu. "Great move by Cash!" and crap like that. All I'm saying is that the offseason isn't over yet.

[Dipre]

Dunn? He's a horrible fielder, and would probably force the yankees to play Damon in center, not a + option at the moment.

 

Ramirez? His bat would justify Damon in center, but if they're crying poverty, then they can't go out and give a 75 million + multiyear deal to a 37-year-old OF.

 

Nope, their main issue is pitching, finding another OF if Abreu leaves is not even a primary issue, since they have Nady and Damon for the corners, and could acquire someone later ( A center fielder is what they need) through FA or through trade.

 

The reason why i think it's extremely stupid, it's because Abreu will sign with other team that has a need for a LH OF, (Mets,Cubs anyone?), and then the yanks will be left scratching their heads as to why the f*** didn't they offer him arb, that is, unless they plan to sign him at a lower AAV, and since the offseason isn't over, we need to see how will it all play out, however, this has "stupid move" written all over it.

[Gom]

What it comes down to is that Cashman is an idiot.

 

I'm not sure if it is based on six months or one year, ORS. I know players get paychecks all year round, but I'm not sure how the break down is created.

 

The thinking is this...if he accepts, the Yankees can tell him that they may cut him in Spring Training. Now...who's going to give a player a big contract in the spring? The big money yeams, the Yanks, Sox, Cubs, Mets, etc., will go into spring training set. So...does he want to chance it that a team will give him a 3 year, 36 mil contract in April?

 

Pettitte, I understand. Not offering Abreu? Foolish. Nady over Abreu? On what planet? Planet Cashman. Not logical baseball sense.

[ARod2212]

I'm a staunch Cashman supporter, but this I disagree with. I'm not saying run him out of town, he's a moron, blah blah blah. But I really don't agree with not offering arbitration.

 

I think the biggest reflection is on the economy. They had been expecting to make a lot of money next season, and they may be tuning down their projections based upon what's going on.

[Gom]

Why is anyone a staunch supporter of any member of any FO. You're as good as your last deal, or at the very best, the last two seasons. That's it.

 

Look, I'll toot his horn if he signs CC, AJ and Tex/Manny. I'll kill him when, well...basically he does his job as he's done over the last 3 years. I grade him on his current performance, which, IMO is s*****. Actually, his entire career is s*****.

 

However, why not kill him when he makes a mistake, and commend him when he makes a good move? I just don't get it.

 

A monkey could have done as good a job as he did. He's simply random. One good move, one asinine move. One step forward, two steps back. That's been this guy's career, and a lot of people buy into it for no reason whatsoever.

[ARod2212]

If you find me the guy who never makes mistakes, I'll make him king of the world.

 

Who knows, maybe not offering arbitration is the right move. This knee jerk reaction to everything is retarded. All this looks like on you is a vendetta against Cash, as you jump on him at every single turn. I happen to like the direction the franchise has taken, and I think it will set them up for a lot of success in the next decade.

[a700hitter]

Why is anyone a staunch supporter of any member of any FO. You're as good as your last deal' date=' or at the very best, the last two seasons. That's it.[/quote']I agree with you whole heartedly. When they bungle something, they should be held accountable and called to task by the press and the fans.

[Gom]

If you find me the guy who never makes mistakes, I'll make him king of the world.

 

Who knows, maybe not offering arbitration is the right move. This knee jerk reaction to everything is retarded. All this looks like on you is a vendetta against Cash, as you jump on him at every single turn. I happen to like the direction the franchise has taken, and I think it will set them up for a lot of success in the next decade.

 

Exactly what do you like?

 

Fact: Team has done worse every season he has had "total control". Just look at their record.

 

Fact: Since he has been GM in the late 90's, he has not drafted a single starting position player or pitcher.

 

Forget what moves he should have made, didn't make, etc. Those are two indisputable facts.

 

Guess you like mediocrity.

[ARod2212]

After years of not having 'total control' there was enough damage done to the minor league system to eventually cause repercussions on the big league team.

 

Stick Michael rebuilt the Yankees after the 80s, when did they see success? This isn't an instant thing. This is what, year three of Cashman actually being in charge? You've got to have patience with it.

 

They have arms in the minors that are going to be useful either on the staff, or in trades. You have guys like Coke and Joba who have shown they have tons of major league potential, and players like Melancon and Jackson who are about ready to make the jump. They've scouted well internationally, which has resulted in a few pretty good players making the team.

 

I don't like mediocrity, which is what the team has been since '02. They started doing things differently in '06, and I feel we're close to seeing the fruits of that labor in the next two seasons.

[Dipre]

Even though Cashman may look absolutely stupid sometimes (FA signings come to mind), the argument that his style of develop talent will bear fruit for the yankees somewhere in the next 3 years....gotta have patience with the guy......(although he does kinda suck sometimes).

[Gom]

After years of not having 'total control' there was enough damage done to the minor league system to eventually cause repercussions on the big league team.

 

Stick Michael rebuilt the Yankees after the 80s, when did they see success? This isn't an instant thing. This is what, year three of Cashman actually being in charge? You've got to have patience with it.

 

They have arms in the minors that are going to be useful either on the staff, or in trades. You have guys like Coke and Joba who have shown they have tons of major league potential, and players like Melancon and Jackson who are about ready to make the jump. They've scouted well internationally, which has resulted in a few pretty good players making the team.

 

I don't like mediocrity, which is what the team has been since '02. They started doing things differently in '06, and I feel we're close to seeing the fruits of that labor in the next two seasons.

Look...I am not against buiding from within. In fact, I'm all for it. I'm also for improving the team in free agency & trades. Who isn't?

 

My problem is with the person in charge. I haven't really seen anything I like.

 

You guys are talking like building from within is a novel concept that he came up with. The Red Sox develop better talent. So do the Cubs. So do the Dodgers. So do the Mets. In fact...every large market team develops better talent than the Yankees. Why? Man in charge. The thing is, the two men before him, Stick and Watson, did the job better than him by a long shot. It's not even close. Stick took a terrible team and build a championship roster. Watson kept it going. Cashman ran it into the ground. Last I saw...the both worked for the same ownership group.

 

I think he's one of the worst GMs in the game. If it wasn't for the ludicrous amount of money he has at his disposal, he would fail miserably.

 

Now..that being said...a GMs job is a "what have you done for me lately" position. So...he still has a chance to salvage his standing. If you remember, he said that if he had left, he wouldn't have "liked what was written" about his tenure.

 

What would have been written is that he was a failure.

 

Now...lets look at the issues this team has at this point in time.

 

He has two starting pitchers under contract, both coming off major injuries.

 

Wang

Chamberlain

 

He has a very solid bullpen.

 

He has a lineup that is highly dependent on one player for most of it's power in Arod.

 

He needs to replace the production of Giambi and Abreu.

 

Forget his mistakes in the past, which have cost the Yankees dearly.

 

He needs to fill three rotation spots, and acquire at least one solid bat to protect Arod in the lineup.

 

Let's see what he does. My hope? CC, AJ, and Manny/Tex. Leave the fifth spot for Hughes or take a chance on Sheets rather than Andy.

 

If he gets three of those four, I'll change my tune. If he gets one, he has failed. If he gets none, he should be fired immediately.

[BSN07]

I find it hard to agree with Gom on alot of things, but Cashman is not a very good GM. He gets bailed out alot by having deep pockets. Something that might not be so over the next few year with the economy. And like was stated before, outside of Joba and Cano he hasn't produced/drafted anyone of value for his club. I don't think he's the worst GM, but put him in a middle market club and we probably never hear his name ever again. Maybe he has the right idea, but the team he works for won't allow him to do what he see's fit. Infact if Cashman wants to build from with, he will have to change teams. The 2 genious childs running the team now don't have the attention span to build from within. They like high priced flashy things that will cost them draft picks more times then not. In turn, taking the " build from within" scheme and whipping their ass's with it.

[diony]

You can rebuild from whitin and spend wisely on FAs, there's nothing wrong with that. That's what Cashman needs to do on the next 3 years.

 

If they're going to lose a draft pick, then make it count. By signing guys like CC or Tex. But don't waste a draft pick in a guy like Burnett or Lowe.

[Gom]

This got me thinking and the only logical conclusion I could draw was that the yankees have plans on retaining both of them.

If they had planned that...they would have offered arbitration, you idiot.

[Dipre]

If they had planned that...they would have offered arbitration' date=' you idiot.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily, they might try to sign them at a lower salary without the risk of a bloated 1-year contract, so how about that, Einstein?

[jacksonianmarch]

If they had planned that...they would have offered arbitration' date=' you idiot.[/quote']

 

and once again you know nothing about the arbitration rules changes. Figures. They changed the rule a few yrs back that not offering arb was akin to watching that player go to another team. Now, you can decline offering arbitration and resign the player to a deal of your liking. If we offered arbitration and Abreu accepted, then he'd be in line for a raise from his 16 mil and the least he could make was 13.5mil. Instead, if we really wanted Bobby back, we can offer him anything. Arbitration sets the price for the yr. That being said, I did not think we wanted Bobby back. This makes me think that we might.

[Dipre]

and once again you know nothing about the arbitration rules changes. Figures. They changed the rule a few yrs back that not offering arb was akin to watching that player go to another team. Now' date=' you can decline offering arbitration and resign the player to a deal of your liking. If we offered arbitration and Abreu accepted, then he'd be in line for a raise from his 16 mil and the least he could make was 13.5mil. Instead, if we really wanted Bobby back, we can offer him anything. Arbitration sets the price for the yr. That being said, I did not think we wanted Bobby back. This makes me think that we might.[/quote']

 

It's not like they planned to throw 30+ mil in Abreu and Pettite, which is most likely what would've happened had they offered arbitration, but this is, of course, if they plan to re-sign them, because if they don't, then Cashman s*** the bed.

[diony]

I think they want Pettite back for 12-13m, that explains why they didn't offer him arbitration.

 

But in the case of Abreu, they don't want him back. If they wanted him, they would had offered him arbitration and then give him they 45/3 contract he desires, or just take him back for 17/1.

[diony]

Not necessarily' date=' they might try to sign them at a lower salary without the risk of a bloated 1-year contract, so how about that, Einstein?[/quote']

 

They can offer him arbitration and if he accepts, then they can renegotiate a new multiyear deal.

 

So Bobby has to choose between a 16/1 contract and a 45/3. At age 34, he'll definitely choose the second one.

[Gom]

and once again you know nothing about the arbitration rules changes. Figures. They changed the rule a few yrs back that not offering arb was akin to watching that player go to another team. Now' date=' you can decline offering arbitration and resign the player to a deal of your liking. If we offered arbitration and Abreu accepted, then he'd be in line for a raise from his 16 mil and the least he could make was 13.5mil. Instead, if we really wanted Bobby back, we can offer him anything. Arbitration sets the price for the yr. That being said, I did not think we wanted Bobby back. This makes me think that we might.[/quote']

 

Except that the contract is not guaranteed. By not offering arbitration, you've made him more attractive to other teams. Therefore, your ability to sign him decreases due to the fact that the opposing teams don't have to offer draft picks to sign him.

 

You're proof positive you don't need intelligence to be a doctor, just stamina.

[Dipre]

They can offer him arbitration and if he accepts, then they can renegotiate a new multiyear deal.

 

So Bobby has to choose between a 16/1 contract and a 45/3. At age 34, he'll definitely choose the second one.

 

Again, not necessarily, because they can decline to offer him arbitration, and then sign him to, say, a 2 year deal with a lower AAV.

[kreinbihl34]

Again' date=' not necessarily, because they can NOT offer him arbitration, and then sign him to, say, a 2 year deal with a lower AAV.[/quote']

 

But what you do not understand is the chance of this is slim to none. Some other team will offer him a slightly higher AAV contract and possibly a third year. He won't be back with the Yankees at 8million a year,.when someone else is offering 10-12 million a year.

[26 to 6]

Call me dumb, as hopefully I'm just drawing a blank but what does AAV stand for?

[TheKilo]

Average Annual Value

 

Basically, it's caluclated like this:

 

Total $ in contract

Total duration of contract

[26 to 6]

Average Annual Value

 

Basically, it's caluclated like this:

 

Total $ in contract

Total duration of contract

lol thanks, I got it. Can't believe I let that one get over my head.

 

Simple enough, thanks man.

[Dipre]

But what you do not understand is the chance of this is slim to none. Some other team will offer him a slightly higher AAV contract and possibly a third year. He won't be back with the Yankees at 8million a year' date='.when someone else is offering 10-12 million a year.[/quote']

 

Ugh.......and who says the Yanks will offer 8 mill?

 

They might offer up to 13, they just won't give him 17 mill, which was the figure he was likely due to obtain in arbitration.