Offseason: catcher

[Dojji]

I don't think Colletti's quite that stupid guys. Especially because we really can't offer him a replacement.

[26 to 6]

I don't think Colletti's quite that stupid guys. Especially because we really can't offer him a replacement.

He can sign Varitek and add another washed up former Sox.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Nonsense. Wake's an above average pitcher at the bottom of the rotation. By which I mean, he's objectively in the top half of the league, and we happen to have him at the bottom of our rotation. For his role, he's very good

 

Wakefield's never supposed toget playoff starts, he just got exposed in the playoffs because Schill got hurt, Buchholz sucked, Colon spend September sulking in the Dominican, and Byrd wasn't a clearly superior option.

Are you saying other teams would be happy to have him?

 

 

If so, I feel for those other teams.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't think Colletti's quite that stupid guys. Especially because we really can't offer him a replacement.

For argument purposes, we could offer Wagner.

 

 

 

I do agree though that Colletti would have to OD on crack to even think about trading Martin.

[Dojji]

Are you saying other teams would be happy to have him?

 

 

If so, I feel for those other teams.

 

Two words, my friend:

 

Jeff Suppan.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Two words, my friend:

 

Jeff Suppan.

What about him? I'd rather have Suppan than Wakefield, not even close.

[Dojji]

What about him? I'd rather have Suppan than Wakefield' date=' not even close.[/quote']

 

Fantastic post. Awesome.

[jacksonianmarch]

What about him? I'd rather have Suppan than Wakefield' date=' not even close.[/quote']

 

Are you serious? It isnt even close. Wake is more reliable, more durable, and better

[Dojji]

Nevermind, Jackson. Suppan is obviously the superior pitchher. His ~5 ERA in the NL Central, his contract twice the size of Wakefield's, and his 87 ERA+ make this so blindingly obvious it's just not close.

[example1]

I don't hear any realistic catching scenarios here. Russ Martin ain't happening.

 

It's another potentially unrealistic scenario, but what would it take to land Victor Martinez? He's at $5.7m next year and the club has a $7m club option in 2010, so he's either off contract or in his "free-agent to be" season in 2010. He had a down season last year, but he's been a naturally gifted hitter throughout the past 5 seasons, career .370 OBP. Switch hitter.

 

I'm not sure he can play C everyday, but the Sox have shown over the past few years that a low-level platoon with catchers can be a good thing. They can certainly afford to give him some off days.

 

I don't know, I think he would be a Theo type acquisition.

 

Would Michael Bowden be too much to give away for VM? That's a tough one...

 

I'm not sure what Cleveland needs right now

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Fantastic post. Awesome.

Thanks.

 

 

 

One-trick knuckleballers who choke horribly in any kind of important situation just don't really do it for me.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't hear any realistic catching scenarios here. Russ Martin ain't happening.

 

It's another potentially unrealistic scenario, but what would it take to land Victor Martinez? He's at $5.7m next year and the club has a $7m club option in 2010, so he's either off contract or in his "free-agent to be" season in 2010. He had a down season last year, but he's been a naturally gifted hitter throughout the past 5 seasons, career .370 OBP. Switch hitter.

 

I'm not sure he can play C everyday, but the Sox have shown over the past few years that a low-level platoon with catchers can be a good thing. They can certainly afford to give him some off days.

 

I don't know, I think he would be a Theo type acquisition.

 

Would Michael Bowden be too much to give away for VM? That's a tough one...

 

I'm not sure what Cleveland needs right now

I definitely wouldn't trade Bowden for him, but Martinez does intrigue me. I don't think it will happen though.

[SoxBrainTrust]

Interesting Cross Posts

sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=38947

redsoxprospects57174.yuku.com/topic/3753

 

I would be inclined to send Kottaras and Lopez to Zona for Miguel Montero and try Platooning him with Dusty Brown or Mark Wagner depending how Wagner does in the Spring. Ryan Doumit or Jeff Clement could be a fall back plan.

[Cocos Disciples]

Thanks.

 

 

 

One-trick knuckleballers who choke horribly in any kind of important situation just don't really do it for me.

 

4.13 ERA, 1.18 WHIP for a 4th or 5th starter? Not really your thing, is it?

[BSN07]

Interesting Cross Posts

sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=38947

redsoxprospects57174.yuku.com/topic/3753

 

I would be inclined to send Kottaras and Lopez to Zona for Miguel Montero and try Platooning him with Dusty Brown or Mark Wagner depending how Wagner does in the Spring. Ryan Doumit or Jeff Clement could be a fall back plan.

 

Clement as a back up plan????

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

4.13 ERA' date=' 1.18 WHIP for a 4th or 5th starter? Not really your thing, is it?[/quote']

Not when they can't win a marginally important game to save their life.

[Cocos Disciples]

Clement as a back up plan????

 

x2 to Doumit as a backup plan. .858 OPS for a catcher =/= backup plan, especially to Dusty Brown and Mark Wagner, who has approximately zero at bats above AA.

[Cocos Disciples]

Not when they can't win a marginally important game to save their life.

 

Okay, he sucks in big spots, but Jeff Suppan is not better than Tim Wakefield.

[MANNYHOF24]

Not when they can't win a marginally important game to save their life.

 

True, but to be fair, he hasnt been the healiest player the last two postseasons. He won 2 huge games in the 03 ALCS, also he didnt pitch terriblely in his ALDS start in 05. But if he is your 5th starter whats the problem? He would be one of the best 5th starters in all of baseball. If we can sign Lowe or Burnett we would have one sick rotation.

 

Beckett

Lester

Matsuzaka

Lowe/Burnett

Wake

 

Easily one of the best if not the best rotations in baseball, if Beckett can come back healthy and Lester/DiceK can contiune to improve.

[example1]

True, but to be fair, he hasnt been the healiest player the last two postseasons. He won 2 huge games in the 03 ALCS, also he didnt pitch terriblely in his ALDS start in 05. But if he is your 5th starter whats the problem? He would be one of the best 5th starters in all of baseball. If we can sign Lowe or Burnett we would have one sick rotation.

 

Beckett

Lester

Matsuzaka

Lowe/Burnett

Wake

 

Easily one of the best if not the best rotations in baseball, if Beckett can come back healthy and Lester/DiceK can contiune to improve.

 

 

I understand the sentiment, but from what I have seen as their asking prices both Lowe and Burnett would be the highest paid members of the Red Sox. Neither deserves to be and it will set a bad precident as we move toward resigning guys in the future. I think Drew at 14m already set some precident for overpayment, but for a #3 or #4 starter I just can't see going there.

 

Make a strong run at Kerry Wood, move Masterson and Buchholz to the rotation and dont worry about Lowe or Burnett (both of whom the Yankees appear to covet too). That's just my opinion.

[Gom]

Example...come back to planet earth.

 

No way Wood is coming to Boston to be a setup man. That's like me saying the Yankees should sign K-Rod to be the 8th inning guy for the Yankees.

 

If the Red Sox sign Lowe, and the Yankees sign CC and AJ...imagine this.

 

Beckett

Lester

Matsuzaka

Lowe

Wake

 

vs.

 

CC

Wang

Burnett

Chamberlain

Pettitte

 

Disgusting. Just plain filthy. The number 4 starter on either team would be the ace on most staffs.

[example1]

Someone convince me that I should be excited about the prospect of having Derek Lowe back. I think I could be convinced if someone makes an intelligent argument, but I'll wait.

 

I remember being just fine with him leaving 4 years ago. His numbers in the NL did improve significantly, and last year was his best according to his ERA+ since 2000 (when he was a reliever). He also only walked 45 batters in 211 IP, and as a result had his best K/BB since 2000. He had a big drop in BB as soon as he went to the NL West, which makes me think the competition helped. I thought ERA+ accounted for those things, but that seems like a huge improvement.

 

Anyway, I've always liked Lowe's 200+ IP, and the fact that he's a solid sinkerballer plays well in Fenway. He has had a few great seasons with the Sox and I would love it is somehow we know that we would be getting 2002 Lowe.

 

Someone sell me on this, if you can.

[Dojji]

Someone convince me that I should be excited about the prospect of having Derek Lowe back.

 

Derek Lowe is probably the best pitcher on the free agent market not named CC Sabathia when you combine level of talent with durability, and he's the only one of the bunch who has proven in the past that he can pitch here. Our infield defense is significantly upgraded from the '03-'04 campaigns where Lowe struggled with BABIP above his career averages, that should help Lowe's numbers tremendously.

 

Lowe has failed to manage 200 innings twice in the years he was a fulltime starter: THe first time during his weak 2004 campaign, the second, in 2007 when he pitched 199 1/3 innings. As long as you're satisfied with the quality, you'll get plenty of quantity.

 

THis is a peripheral interest, but we should also pursue Lowe out of the available starters because he's similar enough to provide mentorship to one of our top young arms. Lowe and Masterson are not identical, but they are quite similar, and if Lowe is willing to take Masterson under his wing, and not afraid to learn something from the kid, I think that would only be a good thing.

[BSN07]

Considering Lowe's reputation for being an all night ass chaser. I'm not sure I would want him mentoring a young Masterson. Give him tips on the sinker, but nothing else thank you.

 

In any case, Lowe is going to have to except a discount to playin Boston. And I'm not sure Boras is going to be thrilled about this. But in the end it will be up to Lowe to decide. I can't see the Sox going more then 2 years 20M area. They are not going to want anything long term because of the young talent on the way.

 

I still think Penny on a 1 year deal is more likely then Lowe.

[Dojji]

Penny's likely to be a relatively inexpensive 1 year deal with incentives and/or an option. I sincerely doubt Penny and Lowe is an either/or question, especially with legitimate injury concerns outstanding on each of Matsuzaka (shoulder), Beckett (arm tingling), Lester (blew through his innings cap) and Wakefield (back).

[BSN07]

It will be either or if everyone is heslthy and ready to pitch. Neither Lowe or Penny is going to sign anywhere where there not guranteed a rotation spot. Especially Lowe, it would be utterly moronic to do so. Penny maybe, but from what i've heard he should be ready to go come ST, so hes gonna wanna pitch for someone.

 

Penny will get something like a 1 or 2 year deal at around 8-10M a year. I believe he made something in the area of 8.5M this season.

 

Lowe is going to require 3 years atleast and 15M a season. But he has proven to pitch well in Boston for the most part. And his sinker would go well with the IF D.

 

I lean more towards Penny then Lowe. Penny is easily capable of getting 15-18 wins if healthy. That is superb production from the #5 spot in the rotation. Although Lowe has proven to pitch well in Boston for the most part. And his sinker would go well with the IF D.

[Cocos Disciples]

Penny sucks. In his whole career (all NL), the last time he's had a sub 1.20 WHIP was 2001. He was miserable in his half season in 2008, and even in 2007 when he had a 3.03 ERA, he also had a 1.30 WHIP, in the NL West. Pass.

[BSN07]

Ya but Lowe was no gem in 05 for most the season. Playoffs not included.

 

Might all be a wash anyway if the rumors of Lugo for Robertson/Willis are true.

[Cocos Disciples]

Lowe was pretty solid in 2005, but I'm pretty sure you mean 2004. It's true that he was terrible in 2004, but he would have a much better infield in 2009, which makes a difference for him. Not all the difference, but some.

 

As for Robertson/Willis, if either of them crack the rotation Opening Day, I suggest you hide the women and children.

[naptownsoxfan]

Tek is as good as gone and lets face the truth about what is really out there via FA...nothing.

Give Brown & Kottaras the shot to battle it out in March. My vote is Kottaras