Offseason: catcher

[Dojji]

I never go to funerals. If given the option I'd avoid my own.

 

A lot of bad options here, no clearly good choices.

 

Let's start with the obvious: I would not re-sign Varitek. I would not offer Varitek arbitration. He has no arm anymore and it's time to find a new answer there. I would love it if he just hung them up this offseason but I think we can forget about that. Someone will pay Jason Varitek to be their catcher. I just don't want it to be us.

 

A lot of people blame Wakekfield for the need for a knuckleball catching specialist, but someone at SoSH (Yecul) finally got it right when they said the real problem isn't the knuckler itself or Wakefield but the fact that Varitek cannot handle the pitch effectively. The caddy isn't for Wake, it's for TEK. With a new catcher we get to expand our options with Wakefield enormously.

 

That said, our options at catcer itself are not good.

 

The only FA catchers I'd touch out there are Pudge and Rod Barajas and neither of them are likely to be that much of an upgrade over what we have, particularly in the OBP department.

 

There's a rumor that Miguel Olivo might get out of his option in Kansas City, but that's not really a much better option than Barajas. If I had to choose between 'Tek, Irod, Barajas and Olivo I'd be inclined to go back to the devil I know.

 

Maybe, just maybe, if you're desperate, you look at Kendall too, but Kendall looked cooked just last year in the AL so I certainly wouldn't take any big, expensive chances on the guy. Besides, he has a chance to re-up with a contender -- not a huge likelihood Kendall's even available.

 

Also in the mix are our Pawtucket duo. Kottaras and Brown did a great job sharing a platoon in AAA and both of them are young enough that they might be able to adjust to the big league game. Both of them are more likely to be the style of hitter we want our Red Sox to be (as in, walk-takers and count-workers) than anyone on the free agent market.

 

The question there is whether you really want to trust the pitching staff to a pair of rookies, when only Lester, and Buchholz if he makes the squad, are likely to have seen them before outside ST and them not much. On the other hand I've heard nothing but praise for the gamecalling skills of the man who would receive theh majority of playing time in the platoon (Kot) so perhaps that's not as big an issue as it sounds.

 

Third choice is to acquire a man via trade. We've got a few possibilities there.

 

Jeff Clement or Kenji Johjima of the Mariners, depending on who wins the full-time catching job (Johjima hit well 2 of his 3 years in MLB, I'll write off 2008 as a fluke). A deal with the Mariners is attractive because they need just about everything so it's not hard to find a matchup. They were burned recently on Bedard though so I'm guessing they're likely to be too greedy in compensation.

 

An underdiscussed option is Bryan Anderson of the Cardinals, Not the best year in AAA this year but very young, talented, good on base skills, and stuck behind Yadier Molina who Tony LaRussa really likes.

 

Not the best trade fit as rosters go though -- our disposable parts don't really overlap well with the spots STL really needs to fill just now so we'd have to pay for a top prospect with pure pitching. And once again, you'd be trusting the pitching staff to a rookie you knew even less about than Kottaras and Brown.

 

And then... Texas. 4 catchers at or near major league ready. Teagarden, Salty, Ramirez, Laird.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the "defensive maestro" who did most of the gamecalling for some of the worst pitching in recent major league memory is not a guy we're interested in pursuing to call pitches for our staff. So that writes off Laird and leaves us looing at the trio of Saltalamacchia, Teagarden, and Ramirez.

 

Of our remaining candidates, we're likely to get the one Texas doesn't want (presuming they also don't want Laird) Likely, that measn the catcher we're getting from the Rangers is either Teagarden or Saltalamacchia -- Teagarden as a possible health risk if used as a fulltime catcher, Saltalamacchia because he's not that good defensively and has some adjustments to make to reach his potential as a big league hitter.

 

Of those two, Salty is the one who will be approaching his last year of options so I guess the tie would go to him. Not sure though.

 

Either way we go here, Texas is going to be looking for one thing and one thing only: quality pitching. In all likelihood, that means one of our 3 MLB-ready young arms will go, and in terms of Texas' preference it would likely be first Masterson, then Buchholz, then Bowden. I don't know right now if we can afford to part with any of the three, but the ones we want to keep are going to be the ones Texas holds out for and we cann't take all 3 of them off thhe table.

 

In the positions, their weaknesses are also our weakesses (3B, mostly) so unless we propose to trade them Youks or pay them to take Mike Lowell off our hands I don't now how we're going to get a satisfactory deal here either.

 

It seems to me that the least expensive solution also has the advantage of being the best, least risky and simplest: give Kottaras and Brown the two catching slots next year and whoever handles Wakefield best handles Wakefield (they're about equal on Zink but Wake's knuckler dances more) and use them as an ordinary lefty-righty platoon, which worked well as a test case in Pawtucket.

[Cocos Disciples]

Not really excited about another vet like Johjima, Olivo, Laird, etc. I'd rather go younger with Clement or a Texas catcher. Something will happen though.

[Gom]

Why not trade some of those prospects you've accumulated for a veteran catcher?

[Dojji]

Why not trade some of those prospects you've accumulated for a veteran catcher?

 

Because having a lot of prospects is pretty useful too, especially when they're pretty close to MLB-ready. We kinda didn't regret not trading Lowrie and Masterson in the Santana deal after all.

 

That, and most quality veteran catchers are franchise centerpieces and not to be had for love nor money. That pretty much leaves the Lo Duca/Schnieder/Kendall set as the best veteran trade targets.

 

Oh, and we've got a couple catching prospects that are pretty close too. Not all of Exposito, Wagner, and Still are going to become quality big league catchers but we only need one.

[Gom]

Because having a lot of prospects is pretty useful too, especially when they're pretty close to MLB-ready.

 

Oh, and we've got a couple catching prospects that are pretty close too. Not all of Exposito, Wagner, and Still are going to become quality big league catchers but we only need one.

 

The fundamental difference between me and most of you. Where are your prospects now?

Lester: Solid pitcher

Ellsbury: Garbage

Lowrie: Average

Masterson: Average

Buchholz: Garbage

 

If your FO guessed right, it would have traded two for Johan. Unless they gave up Lester, the deal would have been a steal for you.

 

Same thing, all over again.

[BoSox21]

The fundamental difference between me and most of you. Where are your prospects now?

Lester: Solid pitcher

Ellsbury: Garbage

Lowrie: Average

Masterson: Average

Buchholz: Garbage

 

If your FO guessed right, it would have traded two for Johan. Unless they gave up Lester, the deal would have been a steal for you.

 

Same thing, all over again.

 

what is it about not judging prospects after a full season or less that you don't understand?

 

what if the FO considered Lester "garbage" because of what they saw in '06 and '07 from him?

[Dojji]

These prospects are not now what they always will be.

 

If I freeze-framed Youks in 2007 the conesus would have been thaht at 27, he was done developing and that while he'd gained some power he would never really have enough to justify his position permanently as a 1B. In fact both in '06 and '07 there was a loud argument that this team needed to go get a REAL offensive 1B.

 

Lo and behold, he took not a step but a quantum leap forward and IIRC leads all qualifying American League 1Bmen in OPS this year (note: Teixeira did not qualify)

 

The only assessment I'm not going to argue right now is Buchholz. "Average" from SS is a big step up from what we were used to since the end of '04. And while his OBP needs to come up in succeeding seasons, I wouldn't call the league leader in stolen bases "garbage" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

And if you think Masterson is average you seriously need to get a grip, Gom. What part of a 145 ERA+, 3.12 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, over 88 2/3 innings is average?

[BigPapiEnFuego]

The fundamental difference between me and most of you. Where are your prospects now?

Lester: Solid pitcher

Ellsbury: Garbage

Lowrie: Average

Masterson: Average

Buchholz: Garbage

 

If your FO guessed right, it would have traded two for Johan. Unless they gave up Lester, the deal would have been a steal for you.

 

Same thing, all over again.

 

Ellsbury and Bucholz Garbage? Ellsbury will be better with time, and Bucholz will be a real good pitcher one day. Sorry they can't come up and be an automatic Joba. s***

[Keeper]

Varitek should retire. He can't catch up to the fastball anymore, and his arm is shot.

 

Some of you probably won't like the comparison (for obvious reasons), but his career numbers look a lot like Thurman Munson's numbers. His legacy is secure. A leader. A winner. And a class act.

[Thumper]

Russell Martin anyone?

[26 to 6]

I'd kill myself if he ended up in Boston. I love Russell Martin, would LOVE to see him in pinstripes. Obviously it's very unlikely considering his value, our current catcher situation and his contract, and some of the guys we have in the minors. But I would love it. If you guys could pull off a trade for him, who I think is arguably the best all around catcher in the game, i would have to give Theo serious kudos.

 

But let's be realistic now.

[Dojji]

Russell Martin anyone?

 

Yeah, I'm sure the Dodgers are gonna trade their franchise cornerstone catcher.

 

For that matter, let's complete the "fuhgetaboutit" list -- basically the list of prominent, established major league catchers we won't be sniffing even if we're willing to pay a lot.

 

Martin

McCann

Soto

Mike Napoli

Navarro

Shoppach*

Mauer

Ianetta

Chris Snyder

Ryan Doumit

 

* Yes, Shoppach rather than Victor Martinez. I suspect the Guardians are looking at blowing it up and VMart could be traded if the price is right

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Can them both (Wakefield and Varitek). I know I defended Varitek over the summer, but he's just drove me insane over the past month. Give the Rangers a call and try to swipe Saltalamacchia.

[Dojji]

We don't need to can Wakefield to get a competent catcher as long as we dismiss Jason Varitek.

[TheKilo]

Right, my vote would be a Dusty Brown/George Kottaras platoon all year.

 

Also, Varitek could be Wake's caddy next season on short money, WCS.

[rician blast]

The fundamental difference between me and most of you. Where are your prospects now?

Lester: Solid pitcher

Ellsbury: Garbage

Lowrie: Average

Masterson: Average

Buchholz: Garbage

 

If your FO guessed right, it would have traded two for Johan. Unless they gave up Lester, the deal would have been a steal for you.

 

Same thing, all over again.

 

Same thing, all over again...you're right. Once again you're forgetting the other side of the equation which was the cost of signing Mr. Santana. While the Sox are anything but poor, salary/# of year commitments are part of the formula. We've been over this and while I totally understand and respect your view, you fail to make this connection.

[Keeper]

Yeah' date=' I'm sure the Dodgers are gonna trade their franchise cornerstone catcher.[/quote']

 

*coughs* Mike Piazza *coughs* Paul Lo Duca

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

We don't need to can Wakefield to get a competent catcher as long as we dismiss Jason Varitek.

No, we need to can Wakefield because he is just not good.

[TheKilo]

The fundamental difference between me and most of you. Where are your prospects now?

Lester: Solid pitcher

Ellsbury: Garbage

Lowrie: Average

Masterson: Average

Buchholz: Garbage

 

If your FO guessed right, it would have traded two for Johan. Unless they gave up Lester, the deal would have been a steal for you.

 

Same thing, all over again.

 

Lester - Above Average

Ellsbury - Average (sorry Gom, defense counts)

Lowrie - slightly below average

Masterson - above average

Buchholz - garbage

[rician blast]

Lester - Above Average

Ellsbury - Average (sorry Gom, defense counts)

Lowrie - slightly below average

Masterson - above average

Buchholz - garbage

 

Last night on NESN Bob RYan was making the following comparison:

 

Pedroia + Ellsbury vs. Upton + Longoria

 

Whether he was just being a good Sox soldier or not I am not sure...but in his opinion the Sox had the better combo. Despite saying that Longoria would likely be a 35-40 HR guy...and the new Mike Schmidt...he says he still thinks Ellsbury will become a very good hitter and steal 60-70 bases per year and that he and Pedrioa are more valuable than the TB tandem.

 

Hmmm....not sure about that one, Bobby.

[Paradisecity]

I ain't buying

 

You COULD argue that Pedroia is more valuable because of the expected v received of a 3B and 2B ( what I mean is that Pedroia exceeds the 2B mold more than Longoria the 3B power mold).

 

Still, I ain't buying

[TheKilo]

Yeah, I'd take the TB combo too and it's not even really that close.

[Keeper]

Talent-wise, it isn't close. However, Upton is a head case; I think he'll end up like Darryl Strawberry. Unfulfilled promise. Also needs to take better routes to balls in the outfield. Longoria could be the best third basemen we've seen in some time, but it's too early to say he's the next Mike Schmidt. Pedroia plays the game the way it was meant to be played. Balls to the wall, gotta love his attitude. Definitely maximizes his ability. If Ellsbury ever learns how to draw a walk, he could wind up with 500 or more stolen bases. Doesn't have Upton's arm, but is a much better center fielder at this point. Kenny Lofton is someone he should emulate.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah, right now you have to give Pedroia the edge over Longoria, just because Longoria hasn't done it for more than a year. He'll probably be better than Pedroia though. Upton, on the other hand, is miles and miles better than Ellsbury. Not even close.

[Paradisecity]

162 game averages per ESPN:

 

YEARS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

1.1 162 610 107 178 26 7 11 59 45 86 54 10 .293 .346 .413 .759

 

YEARS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

2.28 162 588 92 163 33 2 17 75 83 164 36 12 .277 .367 .426 .793

 

 

I wouldn't say miles and miles.

[Cocos Disciples]

Fair enough, probably too extreme. Still, Ellsbury's 2007 seems like a fluke. I'd take Upton in a second though.

[Dojji]

No' date=' we need to can Wakefield because he is just not good.[/quote']

 

Nonsense. Wake's an above average pitcher at the bottom of the rotation. By which I mean, he's objectively in the top half of the league, and we happen to have him at the bottom of our rotation. For his role, he's very good

 

Wakefield's never supposed toget playoff starts, he just got exposed in the playoffs because Schill got hurt, Buchholz sucked, Colon spend September sulking in the Dominican, and Byrd wasn't a clearly superior option.

[Dojji]

*coughs* Mike Piazza *coughs* Paul Lo Duca

 

Yes well, insane GM's will happen but I have my doubts Martin will be joining those ranks anytime soon.

[TheKilo]

Ned Colletti is an idiot though.

[BoSox21]

Nothing like a catcher who could also fill in Lowell at third