Relax Sox Fans!

[NDfromNY]

As a HUGE Yankee fan, it pains me, but..

 

You will be fine. You will come back from 3-1 and win the series. It's what you do. It's annoying to me, but it's what you do. Francona is the best manager in MLB (can we have him?)

 

Plus, Rays-Phillies is a sucky WS.

 

Good luck and god bless baseball no matter what team you root for.

[Cocos Disciples]

Francona is the best manager in MLB (can we have him?)

 

:lol::dunno:

[Dojji]

Seriously, I think Tito gets a lot of credit for getting a team this badly beat up past the first round. It's hard to give the manager credit when the team trails in the current playoff series but when you look at the whole, Tito's done a heck of a job this year just like the last several.

 

Bear in mind that he has a lot less to work with than Maddon right now. The three best hitters in the playoffs right now are Tampa Bay Rays (Longoria, Upton, Crawford) and our bats haven't been doing much with the Tampa Bay rotation while Tito has been forced to mix and match just to put warm bodies on the mound.

[ORS]

You might as well add Pena to that list and make the top 4. And they bat 2-5 for the Rays.

 

It's true, Tito is dealing with an unloaded gun right now. The problem is that he's not making the moves that need to be made to address the problems. Love ya Papi, but I can't have an automatic out in the heart of the order. He doesn't get Casey into a game until the 4th game, 1.5 games after Kotsay started hitting. Maybe Sean makes a difference in game 2 when Kotsay went 0-6. The best hitting catcher available hasn't had an AB yet. Then there's his pitching decisions. Why Paul Byrd, who was effective 1st time through, wasn't used to start the 5th in game 2 is unexplainable. He stayed with Beckett to face guys who were 4/6 with 2 HR and 2 2B off him. Was it any surprise when runs 6-8 crossed the plate? In just about every instance, Tito's move has been a day late and a dollar short.

[Dojji]

Sometimes even when a guy isn't hitting you still have to sink or swim with him. Can you imagine what it'd do to the other 8 guys if you benched David Ortiz?

 

And then comes the question of who you could possibly replace him with that would be worth more than the lottery ticket chance that Papi might recover his swing if you lerave him in there.

 

I think Tito's hamstrung by a weak bench that could have been much stronger. Kottaras, Bailey and/or Carter should be on the playoff roster. Right now we've got a whole bunch of nothing behind a very banged up starting 9, that's what's leading to a lot of our offensive issues right now.

[YAZMAN]

I think we may need an inspirational speech from Wells.

[VA Sox Fan]

I think we may need an inspirational speech from Wells.

 

It worked in 2004! I miss him!

[ORS]

Sometimes even when a guy isn't hitting you still have to sink or swim with him. Can you imagine what it'd do to the other 8 guys if you benched David Ortiz?

 

And then comes the question of who you could possibly replace him with that would be worth more than the lottery ticket chance that Papi might recover his swing if you lerave him in there.

 

I think Tito's hamstrung by a weak bench that could have been much stronger. Kottaras, Bailey and/or Carter should be on the playoff roster. Right now we've got a whole bunch of nothing behind a very banged up starting 9, that's what's leading to a lot of our offensive issues right now.

Who said you had to bench him? There are 4 guys hitting the ball with some kind of authority and getting on base regularly. All 4 of them should hit consecutively if you want a big inning, IMO. Some combination of Pedroia, Youk, Bay, and Drew needs to go uninterupted. Papi can stay in the lineup, he just needs to be moved.

[Gom]

I love how you guys believe that 2004 has anything to do with 2008. It's a different team.

[BoSox21]

I love how you guys believe that 2004 has anything to do with 2008. It's a different team.

 

what about 2007?

[VA Sox Fan]

I love how you guys believe that 2004 has anything to do with 2008. It's a different team.

 

Really, it's a different team? I wasn't aware. Wow, learn something new every day.

 

Back when some of us were on the Boston Herald forum. We were down 3-0 to the NYY (2004 ALCS) and the Yankee trolls on the board were unbearable (pretty much like it is now) a guy named Wells wrote a very inspiring post. After the NYY choked the next 4 games away.....so went the trolls, except for jacko (who was either mjriv or bbdoc at that time).

 

2004 and 2008 teams have nothing to do with each other. YAZMAN and I were just recalling a very cool time for us Sox fans.

 

So once again Gom, STFU!

[TheKilo]

I love how you guys believe that 2004 has anything to do with 2008. It's a different team.

 

Dude, no one said anything of the kind.

 

Straw.

 

Man.

[TheKilo]

Sometimes even when a guy isn't hitting you still have to sink or swim with him. Can you imagine what it'd do to the other 8 guys if you benched David Ortiz?

 

And then comes the question of who you could possibly replace him with that would be worth more than the lottery ticket chance that Papi might recover his swing if you lerave him in there.

 

I think Tito's hamstrung by a weak bench that could have been much stronger. Kottaras, Bailey and/or Carter should be on the playoff roster. Right now we've got a whole bunch of nothing behind a very banged up starting 9, that's what's leading to a lot of our offensive issues right now.

 

And that's on Tito for choosing Timlin over a Bailey or Carter.

[Dojji]

I love how you guys believe that 2004 has anything to do with 2008. It's a different team.

 

2007 might, and it's the closer case to parallel anyway..

[BoSox21]

And that's on Tito for choosing Timlin over a Bailey or Carter.

 

hell, even Aardsma

[Keeper]

The Sox can come back. Obviously, tonight is must-win. But the real test will be how Beckett performs in game 6. If he continues to struggle, Francona will have to dip into an arm-weary bullpen and the offense will have to put up a bunch of crooked numbers just to stay in the game. I like Lester a lot in game 7. It's getting to game 7 that's the problem.

[26 to 6]

You will be fine. You will come back from 3-1 and win the series. It's what you do. It's annoying to me, but it's what you do. Francona is the best manager in MLB (can we have him?)

are you high? He's good btu I can name a dozen better off the top of my head. Get outta here with that s***.

[TheKilo]

are you high? He's good btu I can name a dozen better off the top of my head. Get outta here with that s***.

 

Name the dozen.

 

I'll say there's maybe 5 or 6 better. Not 12.

[26 to 6]

Fair enough. I was exaggerating.

[TheKilo]

Here's the ones you can make a case for, IMO:

 

Scioscia

Maddon

Manuel, C.

Gaston (look at Toronto's turnaround this season)

Gardenhire

 

Other than those, I think Francona is easily better than all of the other managers. He's probably better than Gardenhire, Manuel, and Gaston on this list.

[26 to 6]

Here's the ones you can make a case for, IMO:

 

Scioscia

Maddon

Manuel, C.

Gaston (look at Toronto's turnaround this season)

Gardenhire

 

Other than those, I think Francona is easily better than all of the other managers. He's probably better than Gardenhire, Manuel, and Gaston on this list.

I would have said all of them, with maybe the exception of Charlie Manuel and Gaston, but a strong case can be made for both of them. I still think Joe Torre is better (a manager's skill isn't just based on his ability, or lack there of to manage a bullpen. He brings so much more to the table), Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, and Sweet Lou all certailnly belong on that list, Bruce Bochy can make a case (although his time with the Giants doesn't quite support that very much, but I think that has more to do with the Giants absolutely sucking than his lack of managerial ability), cases can also be made for Dusty Baker, Clint Hurdle, and Jim Leyland. Now it's obvious I'm using their entire managerial careers as basis for my statements. I'm not saying Francona doesn't deserve the respect of a great manager, because he does. But I think his players throughout his tenure have quite a bit to do with his success as well. Either way, granted he still has 2 rings (and 1 division title) to go along with his .518 win % in 1457 regular season games managed..

[Dojji]

He got Boston both of their modern rings.

 

How many of those managers have two rings? How many have one?

 

THat's not to say Tito isn't lucky to have a great staff around him but we've all seen that not be enough (2003 anyone?) and Tito knows how to get the last mile out of people -- he showed it last night in spades.

[TheKilo]

I would have said all of them' date=' with maybe the exception of Charlie Manuel and Gaston, but a strong case can be made for both of them.[/quote']

 

I agree - I think Manuel's a bit underrated and keep in mind Gaston's got two rings himself.

 

I still think Joe Torre is better (a manager's skill isn't just based on his ability, or lack there of to manage a bullpen. He brings so much more to the table)

 

I sort of view Francona as Torre redux, except he seems more willing to make use of all of the statistical data afforded him. This is complete conjecture, but it's just an impression I get.

 

Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, and Sweet Lou all certailnly belong on that list

 

agree. Cox has one ring. LaRussa is good but I feel he is a bit overrated, and likes to make himself the show.

 

Lou Piniella is not as good of a manager as Terry Francona.

 

Bruce Bochy can make a case (although his time with the Giants doesn't quite support that very much, but I think that has more to do with the Giants absolutely sucking than his lack of managerial ability), cases can also be made for Dusty Baker, Clint Hurdle, and Jim Leyland. Now it's obvious I'm using their entire managerial careers as basis for my statements. I'm not saying Francona doesn't deserve the respect of a great manager, because he does. But I think his players throughout his tenure have quite a bit to do with his success as well. Either way, granted he still has 2 rings (and 1 division title) to go along with his .518 win % in 1457 regular season games managed..

 

You can't give Bochy a pass for bad teams and then bring Francona's total WP% into play. I know this wasn't a knock on Francona, but keep in mind Tito had some awful Phillies teams.

 

Dusty Baker kills young arms, no thanks.

 

Clint Hurdle over Francona? For what, 3 and a half weeks?

 

Leyland, I'll give you.

[Paradisecity]

 

 

 

I sort of view Francona as Torre redux, except he seems more willing to make use of all of the statistical data afforded him. This is complete conjecture, but it's just an impression I get.

 

 

Don't forget that he also doesn't end relief pitching careers.

 

 

I wonder what Joe Torre's legacy would be without Mariano Rivera?

[rician blast]

Other than those, I think Francona is easily better than all of the other managers. He's probably better than Gardenhire, Manuel, and Gaston on this list.

 

Scioscia? Since 2002 what has Scioscia done with all of the talent he's been blessed with? You gotta do more than just get there.

[Paradisecity]

Scioscia? Since 2002 what has Scioscia done with all of the talent he's been blessed with? You gotta do more than just get there.

 

I really don't think (until this year) that he was blessed with very much talent.

 

One very good pitcher, One great hitter, one very good closer, and a decent pen.

 

I mean, Garret Anderson was Vlad's protection. who else all those years. Erstad?

[TheKilo]

Say what you want about the squeeze play, but I feel Scoscia is far and away a better in-game tactician that Tito.

[Keeper]

Dusty Baker is terrible, plain and simple.

 

You could make a case for Ron Gardenhire. How he manages to make the Twins competitive every year is beyond me.

 

La Rusa is an egomaniac, but he's also one of the greats.

 

Mike Scioscia is a very good manager, but better than Francona? Tossup.

 

Joe Maddon is good, but he still has to prove he isn't a one-year wonder.

 

Bobby Cox is a great manager, but he has only one ring to show for all the consecutive seasons his Braves made the playoffs.

 

Joe Torre is a living legend.

 

Lou Piniella is good, but other than the Reds, he hasn't been able to get anything out of his ballclubs in October. The Cubs are 0-6 with him so far. And they weren't in any of the games. That Mariners team that won 116 games in 2001 didn't even get to the World Series.

 

Charlie Manuel hasn't done anything yet. Shouldn't have even been mentioned.

 

Leyland is good, but he's managed a lot of bad teams.

[ORS]

Say what you want about the squeeze play' date=' but I feel Scoscia is far and away a better in-game tactician that Tito.[/quote']

I don't know about that. If we are talking late in the game and the goal is to score a single run, give me Scioscia. If it's innings 1-6, I think I take playoff Francona.

[Paradisecity]

What does a manager do in innings 1-6?

 

Mike and Tito are very different. Mike wouldnt do well in Boston, but does better than Tito would with the Angels. One manages games, one manages people. They each have their benefits and drawbacks.