Red Sox intrigued by Salty

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/09/14/just_how_valuable_is_he/?page=full

 

The Rangers seem to be keen on Taylor Teagarden becoming the starting catcher for the forseeable future. They would be seeking a top pitching prospect in return. Michael Bowden for Salty?

[TheKilo]

I would make that deal. Salty seems like a classic buy low candidate right now, and even though Bowden has impressed, he's still not Buchholz.

 

I have my concerns whether Salty stays a C, though.

[jacksonianmarch]

You arent alone in those concerns. Salty is a great buy low candidate right now, you are right. But I dont think he profiles as a C. He just isnt a very good catcher to begin with. But, if he can get to average level and starts to hit like he knows how, then getting him will be huge. Salty for Bowden isnt really buy low, though. Bowden has jumped into the top 20 or so prospects in baseball with the season he's had.

[TheKilo]

I have concerns about Bowden's delivery and lack of a "put hitters away" pitch.

 

I think he profiles to be a Scott Baker type, which is useful, but not earth-shattering.

[BSN07]

I wouldn't mind that deal. Bowden +1 atleast tho IMO.

[Dojji]

Saltalamacchia = Kottaras IMHO. I don't see a whole lot that the one can do and the other can't -- except that Kot can handle a knuckler and we don't know that about Saltalamacchia.

 

Kottaras would be a better backup for Tek in at least one way, though, since Tito can use the fact that Kot bats lefthanded to simultaneously rest Varitek and minimize Varitek's weakness from that side of the plate. With Salty, who switch hits, it would be more obvious that it was being done that way simply because Tek can't hit lefthanded anymore, a huge slap in the face that Tito would be reluctant to make.

 

Do NOT sell Kottaras and Dusty short. THey are not AAAA catchers. Either one could become a half-decent MLB starter if their offensive numbers translate halfway decently. Certainly both have the power to be a more than adequate major league backup right now.

 

Not that a catcher often reaches that mark, but Kottaras has shown what would be 30 HR power over a full season of 500 AB's. Brown has also exhibited a great OBP, the best arm of the three catchers, and more than enough power in his own right, and has improved each year he's been in system despite starting each year at a higher level. Both catchers have the ability to be effective at their craft and both could probably play in the majors right now.

 

I do NOT think that the difference between Saltalamacchia and Kot/Brown is worth the kind of prospects it will take to bring him here. Especially because the Rangers are desperate for pitching and any package would start with Masterson with an eye towards returning him to the rotation.

 

(for the record, apropos of nothing, the fans at RoyalBoard are dreaming over Kottaras right now since they think he might be an inexpensive solution to the problem of John Buck, who really regressed defensively this year)

[Cocos Disciples]

Saltalamacchia = Kottaras IMHO. I don't see a whole lot that the one can do and the other can't -- except that Kot can handle a knuckler and we don't know that about Saltalamacchia.

 

Disagreed. Salty has graduated from prospect status, but in BA's 2007 list he was #56, above the likes of Pedroia, Joba, Carlos Gomez, Kurt Suzuki, etc. Kottaras, this year, in about the same level as Saltalamacchia was then, is #20 in SoxProspects.com's list. Salty already has 500+ MLB at bats, and while not the greatest of stats, does have experience, something that Kottaras cannot claim.

 

Do NOT sell Kottaras and Dusty short. THey are not AAAA catchers. Either one could become a half-decent MLB starter if their offensive numbers translate halfway decently. Certainly both have the power to be a more than adequate major league backup right now.

 

Actually I would say Brown will be a AAAA player. He's 26 and hasn't been called up, and while he is a very good defensive catcher, has a ceiling of a backup catcher. Kottaras has a higher ceiling, but it remains to be seen what he can actually do.

[NomahsHammSammich]

Yes to Bowden for Salty.... Absolutely NO to Buchholz for Salty. Clay has ACE stuff. Guys who throw as hard as he does with 3-plus pitches are extremely hard to come by. He has already thrown a no-hitter in his brief major league career. I see Bowden as a #4...#3 at best.

 

Texas has plenty of catching and I suspect they would jump all over this deal should Theo extend the offer. They had to give Volquez to get the face of their franchise...and it was a good deal for them. It is time for Texas to add some Major League ready prospects to their staff.

 

"McCann is a good catcher and an incredibly smart hitter, but wait till you see the guy we got in the minors..."Salty", he is the total package."--Chipper Jones

[Cityofchampions33]

Very much yes Salty for Bowden. Let our system help out in more ways than just by coming up for spot starts. Even if Bowden goes on to become a very good pitcher, which he might be, I'll be on the other side of a Beckett-Ramirez deal this time seeing as we have NO ONE to catch that has the ceiling Salty has.

[Dojji]

Actually I would say Brown will be a AAAA player. He's 26 and hasn't been called up' date=' and while he is a very good defensive catcher, has a ceiling of a backup catcher. Kottaras has a higher ceiling, but it remains to be seen what he can actually do.[/quote']

 

Don't give me age. Hatteberg stuck in the big leagues at age 27

 

How many backup catchers put up an OPS of .849? Is that something you expect out of most backup catchers? Heck, you don't expect that out of most starters.

 

Brown has the ceiling of a backup catcher like Kelly Shoppach is a backup catcher -- that's the only role someone would trust him to do before he got major league experience but he has more than enough ability to surpass that. His OBP is always over .340, his SLG is usually over .400, and he's gotten better each year he's played.

 

Brown has as good a chance as anyone to come up next year and hit at a ~.750 OPS level. Just to remind people, that's somewhat better than Varitek over the last couple.

 

And the beauty of running with Kottaras, Brown or both is that we don't have to spend a lot of resources to do it. We can replace Varitek at well above replacement level without spending a dime or a single prospect, and we could do it right now if we had to.

[Cocos Disciples]

It was in AAA, and it was the first time he had a .800+ OPS since 2002, in the Gulf Coast League.

[Dojji]

It was in AAA' date=' and it was the first time he had a .800+ OPS since 2002, in the Gulf Coast League.[/quote']

 

The fact that he hit at a .798 level in AA makes you right but it doesn't make your point relevant.

 

It was one level short of the big leagues, and he's been steadily improving each of the last 3 years despite playing at a higher level each year. Guy's got a cannon arm, adequate power, and good OBP skills that he's demonstrated throughout his long minor league career. He's probably better than KC right now. You don't think we should give a guy like that a legitimate shot before going outside the system?

[BSN07]

Saltalamacchia = Kottaras IMHO. I don't see a whole lot that the one can do and the other can't -- except that Kot can handle a knuckler and we don't know that about Saltalamacchia.

 

Kottaras would be a better backup for Tek in at least one way, though, since Tito can use the fact that Kot bats lefthanded to simultaneously rest Varitek and minimize Varitek's weakness from that side of the plate. With Salty, who switch hits, it would be more obvious that it was being done that way simply because Tek can't hit lefthanded anymore, a huge slap in the face that Tito would be reluctant to make.

 

Do NOT sell Kottaras and Dusty short. THey are not AAAA catchers. Either one could become a half-decent MLB starter if their offensive numbers translate halfway decently. Certainly both have the power to be a more than adequate major league backup right now.

 

Not that a catcher often reaches that mark, but Kottaras has shown what would be 30 HR power over a full season of 500 AB's. Brown has also exhibited a great OBP, the best arm of the three catchers, and more than enough power in his own right, and has improved each year he's been in system despite starting each year at a higher level. Both catchers have the ability to be effective at their craft and both could probably play in the majors right now.

 

I do NOT think that the difference between Saltalamacchia and Kot/Brown is worth the kind of prospects it will take to bring him here. Especially because the Rangers are desperate for pitching and any package would start with Masterson with an eye towards returning him to the rotation.

 

(for the record, apropos of nothing, the fans at RoyalBoard are dreaming over Kottaras right now since they think he might be an inexpensive solution to the problem of John Buck, who really regressed defensively this year)

 

You can't be serious. Kottaras is not a projected 30HR switch hitter. Kott might be better defensively, but not out of Salty's league. He's young, put him with a good coach and he could be very good behind the plate as well as in the box.

 

 

And what are they dreaming of offering for Kottaras over at RoyalBoard?

[Dojji]

They think they'd get him for Mark Teahen, which we know wouldn't happen. I'd be happy to swap Kot and Kris Johnson reliever for Meche, though. That might be a win-win-win with us getting a solid middle of the rotation innings burner, the Royals getting a big contract off the books for a decent haul of young near-ready talent, and Meche getting to play for a contender.

 

Frankly, Salty hasn't hit anywhere near his ceiling in the majors yet and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the notion of Kottaras as a starting catcher, since he has hit for quite a bit of power. It might happen, it might not, but there's certainly no reason at all that it can't happen.

 

I've believed for awhile that the Sox would be silly to go out of system for parts they already have in their own minor leagues.

 

I don't think all told that we really need to trade for a young catcher based on what we have available to us right now. Between Kot, Brown, and re-upping Tek, we can fill our holes without losing the high-ceiling pitching a trade would require And besides, if you don't like Kot and Brown, you could always wait for Exposito.

 

I expect that they're doing little more than sounding out the Rangers on a price for Salty to figure out whether they can take an inexpensive gamble on him. My guess is the answer will be no and "Salty" will go to a team that's more desperate for him than we are.

[BSN07]

Pass on Gil Meche.... Thats a Yankees type move. Meche makes more then Beckett, that will go over like a fart in church. Although I believe Beckett gets re-upped this off season or early next season. But Meche makes far too much for what he has to offer. I'd rather they brought in Burnett for that much $.

[rician blast]

Not a fan of Meche, particulalry not at his current price tag.

 

Top FA's SP's this offseason include Sheets, Sabathia and Burnett

 

Garland and Dempster (assuming neither has gotten hurt recently, don't really follow these guys) are the "Gil Meche" type FA's this year, IMO.

[Mr Crunchy]

is teks note up this fall?

hes come back to sucking as opposed to his flirting with mrs mendoza and .200

working with tek we would expect a .250 avg with 15hr-60rbi and a 325-350 obp.

those #s would make me happy and theyre not unreasonable

i know its been said 100000xs but he is invaluable to the staff and the development of these younguns.

We all know he needs a legit backup who can play 60 games and rake.

getting these types of catchers is as rare as getting a stud lefty.

[Mr Crunchy]

garland is better than dempster i think.

sheets would do well here,burnett too but we arent going that way.

i been a ben man since he was drafted,burnett is good but not 4/70 good.

i have no desire for sabbathia at all and i wouldve sold my children for a lefty like him years ago.

with what we got in the farm,on the roster and under contract we're looking for a set up guy and perhaps a power arm up front of the rotation but as it stands in 09

becks

dice

lester

wake

byrd or buckholz or bowden or your free agent pick up.

never enough pitching but i dont see us spending 70-100M on an arm this fall

[rician blast]

Agreed, I don't think the FO commits to $15m+ per for 5 years, simply because they don't have to. Beckett, Dice, Lester, Wake is a damn solid 4, and personally I think the FO will seek, either internally or externally, a stronger option as 4th starter, pushing Wake down a slot.

[BoSox21]

I honestly dont see the Sox making a significant move at all this off-season unless its for a middle-back of the rotation guy

[rician blast]

I knew a girl who was totally intrigued by salty...Mr. Salty, that is, the bald-headed champ?

[BSN07]

Would it be out of the realm of possibility to see them trade for Salty, and sign Tek for 2 years. Salty stays in the minors next season, and becomes the back up in 2 years, then takes over. Nothing beats a little competiton, Kottaras, Salty, Brown and whoever all playing for the chance to replace Tek.

[Dojji]

Would it be out of the realm of possibility to see them trade for Salty' date=' and sign Tek for 2 years. [/quote']

 

Yes. The big thing is that Salty has little left to learn at the minor league level and both of the guys already at AAA have more than enough talent for me to be reluctant to support releasing them in favor of Saltalamacchia. And that ignores whatever the heck you want to do with Wagner in AA.

 

In that scenario I'd rather have him in the majors, learning behind Varitek. Which of course poses the very obvious question of exactly how you deal with Tim Wakefield. With Saltalamacchia's defensive skills considered modest, it'd be difficult to see him handling the knuckleball well.

 

Considering what each of them seem to have left to offer this baseball team, if I had to choose right now between Wakefield and Varitek I would choose Wakefield.

 

I really don't think we'll come back with Saltamacchia without giving up Masterson. He's right up Texas' alley and he'll be part of any package the Rangers approve. I happen to think that Kottaras and Masterson plus whatever else has to be offered to bring Salty here will mean more wins for the team over the next couple years than Saltalamacchia will.

[a700hitter]

This guy has been a bust. Ever since Wily Mo I wouldn't trade pitching a positio player who is a project.

[Dojji]

This guy has been a bust

 

The devil he is. THe power hasn't come through consistently in the majors but he's got a nice little OBP this year.

 

Ever since Wily Mo I wouldn't trade pitching a positio player who is a project.

 

Salty is much more fundamentally sound than Wily Mo and he's worth a look.

 

I'm not against acquiring Salty in principle, I like his talent, I just don't think the price is right if there's any chance Masterson, Buchholz or Bowden would be the player going the other way.

[riverside sluggers]

Agreed' date=' I don't think the FO commits to $15m+ per for 5 years, simply because they don't have to. Beckett, Dice, Lester, Wake is a damn solid 4, and personally I think the FO will seek, either internally or externally, a stronger option as 4th starter, pushing Wake down a slot.[/quote']

 

Not to mention if they shell out big $ for a Burnett or Sheets, you might as well Up Becketts asking price who will be a free agent after 2010 season

[BoSox21]

Not to mention if they shell out big $ for a Burnett or Sheets' date=' you might as well Up Becketts asking price who will be a free agent after 2010 season[/quote']

 

a lot of the money they'll save on Manny, Schilling, Timlin, (maybe) Varitek and (hopefully) Lugo will go to signing Beckett long-term, no doubt

[rician blast]

Not to mention if they shell out big $ for a Burnett or Sheets' date=' you might as well Up Becketts asking price who will be a free agent after 2010 season[/quote']

 

right on, a lot to consider.

[BSN07]

Beckett is going to be re upped this off season or early next season, I think this is a non issue. Probably in the area of 5 years 70-80M. Dice-K is lock upped long term, Lester/Buccholz/Masterson should all be relatively cheap for the next few seasons, although if Lester puts up another season like this next year, he will be looking at a long term deal soon.

 

I don't see them going out and putting big $ into the rotation. Sheets has great stuff, but has an injury past, so that means most likely NYY over pay for him. Burnett also has great stuff but he too has an injury past. If he takes a 3 year deal(which I don't see him doing), then maybe he lands in Boston. CC I think stays in th NL if he is smart. Besides those 3 I'm not sure what other big names are out there. I don't think the Sox bring in any 2nd tier guys unless its a Colon type deal, short, low risk, hi reward type deal.

 

The Sox aren't going to save any money on Lugo. In fact, they most likely will have to eat a huge portion of his contract to move him. Or he becomes the most expensive utility player ever. Boston is one of the few teams that could do this.

 

So really going into the off season the biggest ? are C, and BP help. Those are the areas I expect to see some money thrown at or prospects given a chance/ or traded for.

[Dojji]

These aren't places you should throw a lot of money.

 

We already have Papelbon, Masterson, MDC, Oki and Lopez as the core of one heck of a bullpen for next year. Aardsma will probably be back as well, meaning we only really need 1 RHRP and have some in-house options to fill that roster, most notably Hansack who's performed well every time we've called him up and has earned some sort of big league shot. We've still got Snyder rattling around somewhere too, I think, and Beau Vaughn might be a surprise contender for a roster spot as well..

 

I wouldn't spend money on a big money relief FA because we don't desperately need one and they tend to be very volatile.

 

That leaves catching and bluntly, Varitek leads the pool of available catchers assuming the Jays re-up Barajas (which they'd be fools not to do) so that's not a place you'd want to spend money either.

 

Spending our cash to re-up, extend and give long-term contracts to our young core is probably the best use of our available money right now anyway, unless they can get a decent deal for a Burnett or a Sheets.