Attention Jacko!!!!

[Gom]

Okay Jacko...let's have some fun here.

 

I admittedly do not know much about the Yankees minor league system. You claim to. So.....here is the question. Which Yankee prospects are overrated?

 

What I want to know from you is which prospects are getting good press and most likely will not amount to much. Which prospects should we trade away, and which ones are untouchable?

 

Here you go. I am giving you every opportunity to back up everything you claim. Don't bother with Hughes, Kennedy, or Joba, their stock has already been for the most part determined.

 

which players will improve, have great numbers, and then falter? Which ones will come in under the radar and become good players? Which ones are praised as future all-stars...and then become one?

 

You get the idea. I can't debate you at all here, since I literally know nothing about the minors. This is your time to shine, kiddo.

 

The thread....is yours.

[jacksonianmarch]

That is not an easy question Gom. It is like trying to predict the future. And, you need to go level by level in order to answer it.

 

 

MLB

Phil Hughes- future top of the rotation pitcher if he can ever stay healthy. Dont give up on a kid at 22 with his kind of arm and stuff. Like any young pitcher, location, health, and trusting his stuff are the biggest things he needs to work on.

 

Joba Chamberlain- future CY candidate if he stays healthy, no question

 

Ian Kennedy- Gom, you gotta stop thinking like a new yorker. Minor leaguers take time to develop. This guy didnt get into games until the hawaii league in the winter of 06/07. He was in the majors in less than 12 months. He's immature, he lacks command. This is true. But he is young, he has been a pro for about 2 yrs now and has spent half of that time in the bigs. If he gets time to work on his offspeed stuff and his fastball command, he will be solid. I consider him our Buchholz (with a deeper arsenal (5 pitch arsenal, but with a worse FB-Curve combo). If you give him time to sort things out in the minors, he'll be good. That being said, of the MLB trio, he's the first one I'd move.

 

Dave Robertson I love this kid and think he'll be setting up for our closer for yrs to come. He is young right now and occasionally loses the zone. But his arsenal goes three plus pitches deep, he can sit 92-94 and has the stuff to be dominant. Keep this kid

 

Jose Veras I keep a very close eye to the trade market for him. I dont want to deal him, mind you. But this season has been his breakout yr and if the right deal comes along, you make it. He has closer potential, but he loses the zone too frequently. He'll need to improve on that

 

Edwar Ramirez If you look at him as he is, he is a solid middle reliever. He will never be a good setup man or closer. His success is totally reliant on how he locates his changeup. Hence, if the right deal came along, you make it

 

 

AAA.

Chase Wright is a guy I would have traded last yr. Okay arsenal, but his pitch to pitch location isnt that great and he is prone to the homer. Plus, we have plenty of other guys with higher ceilings coming down the pipe.

 

Alfredo Aceves is another guy I'd sell high on. Very similar to Jeff Karstens. Throws 90-92mph, has average off speed offerings. he is getting by on pitchability and control and as we have seen, the umpires dont give the corners to new kids. So he'll take awhile to mature and the payoff wont be that huge.

 

Jeff Marquez- People love his arsenal and the fact that he throws a 95 mph sinker. Bottom line. He isnt Wang. He likely isnt Mendoza and that is the role I see him in. He was mentioned in the Johan deal and he'd also be a guy I trade away if the right deal came along. Problem is, his legs wont stay healthy this yr. If they did, he'd have made his bronx debut

 

Alan Horne- If there isnt anything truly wrong with his shoulder, then I hang onto him. But he has been awful since coming back from a shoulder injury and has ended up on the DL for the yr. If he can bounce back, he'll be solid. Hard sinking fastball, hammer curve, strikeout ability and developing command. He's the only AAA starter with top of the rotation potential. But his health is holding him back

 

JB Cox- one of the best draft picks in the 2005 class. He broke his hand and had TJ last yr and has had mixed results since his return. His past month has been brutal, but before that his ERA was in the 1 range. Looks like he is a bit tired coming off TJ in April 2007. His upside is a middle reliever. He'll never be a closer. He doesnt throw hard enough. But he can give innings and gets a lot of grounders. With the depth we have developed in our pen, I think he is dealable

 

Mark Melancon is a guy i dont trade at all. To be honest with you, I think he is actually the best prospect in the yankee system right now. One writer called him a "beast". Consider this, he is 18 months removed from TJ and is finally throwing free and easy. He throws a 92-96mph fastball, has a hammer curve and a plus changeup. He is our future closer and I dont deal him at all.

 

Brett Gardner I was pretty leery about bringing him up. He is a slow starter and has proven that at every single level. He has blazing speed, but almost no power and doesnt make contact enough to be a top of the order hitter. I would have dealt him before I exposed him. But now, he may be best served as our 4th OFer simply due to his blinding speed.

 

Juan Miranda He is an intriguing option. If we get Tex in the offseason, then he is dealable. if not, I hang onto him. He was a Cuban national all star. He has a lot of power and takes a ton of walks. His MiLB OBP this yr is .388 and SLG is .452. He hits the ball to all fields. But right now, the way is blocked. It opens up next yr, but if we get Tex, then I deal this guy.

 

Humberto Sanchez has had some bad luck. TJ in April of 2007 then surgery to remove bone chips in February kept him out till June. He's now being groomed as a reliever and is apparently throwing high 90s. That being said, he is at the back of a long line and is tradeable

 

AA

 

Austin Jackson is the future Yankee CFer. He's more like the future CFer in 2010 though. Good average, solid gap power, great speed, cannon for an arm, can take a walk. Everything you could want in a CFer and at the ripe age of 21. This kid is my #2 prospect in the system and I dont deal him

 

George Kontos was damn near traded. He actually was traded, but apparently, the pirates didnt like something in Phil Coke's shoulder. That being said, Kontos has one of the best 1-2 punches in the system. His FB-slider combo is deadly. His change is coming along, but his future still looks to be the pen. And if that remains the case, I think he is dealable. If the change continues improving, then he is at least a #3 starter potential in the bigs with the possibility of being a #2.

 

Kevin Whelan was a big piece of the Sheff trade. But elbow woes and then groin woes have limited his duty this yr. As always, the K numbers are there, but his control still sucks and he is coming up on his Rule V eligibility. I deal him if the right deal comes along

 

Francisco Cervelli is a guy I keep. 22 yr old switch hitting catcher with a great eye, good contact skills and developing gap power. But his defense gets rave reviews. He would likely have made his MLB debut this yr had he not broken his wrist in a ST collision. I see him as a platoon candidate in 09 if Posada cannot catch and a full time backup in 2010 with the possibility of being a starter solely based on his continued progression at the plate.

 

Ramiro Pena is starting to get some good reviews as well. He is cut in the mold of Alberto Gonzalez, except he is much more patient. I could see this guy being a UTIL infielder for us in the future. But I dont think I hold him out of any deals. He still has no power and is slumping of late

 

Reegie Corona is a guy similar to Pena, but less glove, more bat and much more speed. He's 2 yrs younger too. He might be a solid 2b/ss in the future but more for his glove than his stick. I'd deal him off too

 

A+

Wilkins de la Rosa is a converted OFer who is now a dominant left handed pitcher. He was switched to the rotation this yr too and has done nothing but dominate. Unfortunately, he is a rule V candidate at the end of the yr and if we dont protect him, he will be picked up. He's a lefty, throws 96-98 mph and has a sick slider. He does walks about 4 per 9, but his BAA is .188 this yr and he has 114K in 95IP. I dont deal him, and I protect him on the 40 man

 

Zach McCallister is a 20 yr old kid who I like. Drafted in 2006, he has a huge frame (6'6" 230) and has found more velocity on his heater. He's throwing low to mid 90s, has a filthy 2 seamer and 2 quality off speed pitches. He's been pushed to Tampa and has actually gotten better. I dont deal him. In fact, I start him in Trenton next yr, and he may be a candidate for callup. He's already at 142IP this yr, and is likely on pace for 150. That means he can go 180 next yr and 200+ the yr after that. Dont deal him

 

Christian Garcia 2004 draftee with all the talent in the world, but no health. TJ surgery, then ACL reconstruction and this yr, his shoulder has been giving him trouble. Has the stuff to be an ace, but he just isnt staying healthy. I'd deal him for anything useful

 

Michael Dunn is another converted OFer. He is also a lefty and also has a sick FB-slider combo. He was just converted to relief and the early returns are good. But I wouldnt hang onto him if a deal came along.

 

Ivan Novais a guy who is going in the right direction in terms of his K's, BAA, and BB's. He's a very well polished dominican pitcher with a plus curve and change who has the capability to throw 96mph. But his knock has been a lack of pitchers instinct and a lack of strikeouts. He is improving, but he has also made the transition to a sinkerballer. He's intriguing, he's young (21) and he is showing good durability and length this yr. I dont deal him unless a very strong deal came along. Call it a feeling

 

Ryan Pope loved the pick last yr for one purpose. Trade bait. 4 pitches, none plus, FB in the 90-91 range, typically has good control. Got hurt a few weeks back and has been awful since. But once he regains his health, he'll rocket through the system. But he is very much like Aceves, Karstens, and even like a Kennedy'-lite. I deal him

 

Damon Sublett was a draft pick from a yr ago. I like this kid. He started out awful, but was hitting over .400 in his last dozen games before tearing ligaments in his ankle. He's been on the DL since the end of may. Dont give up on this kid. He has a nice power stroke, takes a ton of pitches and plays very solid D. He's gonna be ready in 2 yrs and at that point, may push Cano to a corner IF position (or out in a trade).

 

Mitchell Hilligoss is a guy Peter Gammons was quoted as saying, "can just flat out hit". Well, not this yr. Hilligoss was another guy talked about in a Johan deal. He can play all IF and OF positions, has a lot of speed and makes great contact. But his BA has dropped almost 100 points. I dont deal him yet simply because you'd be selling low and I think he can be better.

 

Charleston to come....

[BoSox21]

Chase Wright is a guy I would have traded last yr. Okay arsenal, but his pitch to pitch location isnt that great and he is prone to the homer.

 

lol, how's that for an understatement?

[Paradisecity]

2025 words.

 

 

Christ.

[Gom]

Thank you for the post. It was very informative.

 

My comments, since you included major leaguers:

 

MLB

Phil Hughes- future top of the rotation pitcher if he can ever stay healthy. Dont give up on a kid at 22 with his kind of arm and stuff. Like any young pitcher, location, health, and trusting his stuff are the biggest things he needs to work on.

A potential solid #3. Lacks the fastball to be a dominating number one pitcher, and doesn't have that signature pitch. Sadly, came with so much hype that he can never live up to. I can't see him being a dominant pitcher.

Joba Chamberlain- future CY candidate if he stays healthy, no question

Agreed.

Ian Kennedy- Gom, you gotta stop thinking like a new yorker. Minor leaguers take time to develop. This guy didnt get into games until the hawaii league in the winter of 06/07. He was in the majors in less than 12 months. He's immature, he lacks command. This is true. But he is young, he has been a pro for about 2 yrs now and has spent half of that time in the bigs. If he gets time to work on his offspeed stuff and his fastball command, he will be solid. I consider him our Buchholz (with a deeper arsenal (5 pitch arsenal, but with a worse FB-Curve combo). If you give him time to sort things out in the minors, he'll be good. That being said, of the MLB trio, he's the first one I'd move.

A non-prospect, his numbers this year not-withstanding. A below average fastball that registers as 87-89 mph, and poor control. It's his fastball that makes me believe that he will never be anything more than an AAAA pitcher. Location he can acquire. Another 5 MPH he can't. He may make it as a junk-balling reliever, since he doesn't have the power or deception to get through an order more than once [this season, he can't get through it once].

Dave Robertson I love this kid and think he'll be setting up for our closer for yrs to come. He is young right now and occasionally loses the zone. But his arsenal goes three plus pitches deep, he can sit 92-94 and has the stuff to be dominant. Keep this kid

Doesn't have plus pitches. His fastball is average for a reliever, and his secondary pitches are nothing to write home about. One in a long line of mediocre relievers. I'd move him if the right deal comes along.

Jose Veras I keep a very close eye to the trade market for him. I dont want to deal him, mind you. But this season has been his breakout yr and if the right deal comes along, you make it. He has closer potential, but he loses the zone too frequently. He'll need to improve on that

Could be good if he gets his control down. Live arm, good stuff, but leaves too many things in the middle of the plate. If he learns to live on the corners, he could be a shut down reliever.

Edwar Ramirez If you look at him as he is, he is a solid middle reliever. He will never be a good setup man or closer. His success is totally reliant on how he locates his changeup. Hence, if the right deal came along, you make it

Total, unmitigated garbage. I'd trade him for anything you can get as soon as possible. A below average fastball and a great change when he controls it. However, batters are learning to lay off and are crushing his changeup. He will be the kind of pitcher that gets 7-8-9 out, but 3-4-5 will routinely destroy him. IF..and only IF...he develops a third pitch, he could turn into a useful 6th or maybe even 7th inning pitcher.

AAA.

Brett Gardner I was pretty leery about bringing him up. He is a slow starter and has proven that at every single level. He has blazing speed, but almost no power and doesnt make contact enough to be a top of the order hitter. I would have dealt him before I exposed him. But now, he may be best served as our 4th OFer simply due to his blinding speed.

I fear he simply doesn't have the hand-eye coordination to succeed in the big leagues. He was routinely late on fastballs in his cup of tea in the majors, while using just the upper body. Does not stride at all into the pitch, generating no power. Frustrating, because he'd be a perfect fit for the Yankees with his speed at the top of the order and range in the OF. If he can work on strengthening his wrists and using his lower body to generate gap-power, he'd be in the majors in a heartbeat.

 

I don't know the rest, but thank you very much for your post. I learned a bit, but to be honest, I toned down every player you listed a notch

[jacksonianmarch]

Now a little advisory. Below Tampa is the level at which most of our highest ceiling players will be. Granted, Brackman will be starting in Tampa, but I only know what I hear about him and that is, he is throwing pretty well coming off TJ. I cannot make any judgements until I see his stats and maybe catch a game or two. That being said, it is very difficult to say, "trade em" about these guys because they are so new to the system. But here goes

 

A:

Dellin Betances- is a guy you will have to be patient on. He's 20, 6'8" and throws very, very hard. 94-96 at times with the capability to hit 98. He has a knee buckling curve and a dynamite changeup. His problem is repetition, which is the problem with most big men. Regardless, he has cut down on the walks considerably after coming back from the DL (16 in 42IP) yet continues to show his dominance (.202 BAA and 10.4K/9IP). He's gonna take a long time, but his upside is way too high to deal away.

 

Jairo Heredia is 18 in Charleston. Yes, he is an 18 yr old starting pitcher in long season. He throws pretty hard (91-93) for an 18 yr old and gets a ton of GBs. He has a plus curve and a good change at this point too. I dont deal him either. He is so young and is handling the long season league pretty well (at least until recently). Once he gets his feet under him, he will move much faster than Betances. i dont deal him either.

 

Adam Olbrychowski is a name you might be wondering why I even have him on this list. Well, he's a 2007 draftee and was the closer at Pepperdine. He's since been converting to the rotation and was dominant until he went down with an injury. Since coming back he has been beyond awful. With time, he could be a solid pitcher. High 90s fastball with a good curve. But he is far enough down on the depth chart that I'd deal him. Just right now, his worth isnt that high.

 

Angel Reyes is our 21 yr old enigma. A lefty with a power arm and solid curve, he injured his back last yr and was damn near useless. This yr, he was hit with a steroid suspension and has finally returned. I'd deal him

 

Now for the offense...

 

Jesus Montero is the yankees #3 prospect IMO. 18 yr old dominating long season as their catcher. .323 BA, 14HR, solid slugging. Could use a bit on the patience side. D has improved. He is gonna be a beat. No deals

 

Austin Romine is a kid who was drafted out of high school to catch. He is a solid catcher with a great arm and developing power. He's holding his own in long season as a first yr pro. I think better things are to come with him, so I hold onto him for now.

 

Brandon Laird 20 yr old kid with tons and tons of power. 18 homers in 390ABs and an isolated power of over .200. Doesnt walk much and K's a fair amount. I think we hang onto this kid for now, but I also wont be too averse to moving him.

 

Justin Snyder utility guy with lots of speed and a good eye. I wouldnt be averse to moving him.

 

Bradley Suttle is a kid I dont deal. Switch hitter with a good eye, solid power (IsoPower>.200). Plays 3b but will likely be moved to 1b. He was dubbed the "best pure hitter" in the 2007 draft and he hasnt disappointed.

 

Then you get to the kids who are projects.

 

Carmen Angelini and Abraham Almonte are toolsy guys with tons of speed who are playing rather poorly in their debut to long season. I wont deal them right now solely based upon their potential and the fact that their value right now is nil

 

Then there are other fringe guys like Austin Krum, Dave Williams, and the like who I'd deal at the drop of a hat

[TheKilo]

LOLOLOL @ saying Kennedy is "our Buchholz."

[CrespoBlows]

Now a little advisory. Below Tampa is the level at which most of our highest ceiling players will be. Granted, Brackman will be starting in Tampa, but I only know what I hear about him and that is, he is throwing pretty well coming off TJ. I cannot make any judgements until I see his stats and maybe catch a game or two. That being said, it is very difficult to say, "trade em" about these guys because they are so new to the system. But here goes

 

A:

Dellin Betances- is a guy you will have to be patient on. He's 20, 6'8" and throws very, very hard. 94-96 at times with the capability to hit 98. He has a knee buckling curve and a dynamite changeup. His problem is repetition, which is the problem with most big men. Regardless, he has cut down on the walks considerably after coming back from the DL (16 in 42IP) yet continues to show his dominance (.202 BAA and 10.4K/9IP). He's gonna take a long time, but his upside is way too high to deal away.

 

Jairo Heredia is 18 in Charleston. Yes, he is an 18 yr old starting pitcher in long season. He throws pretty hard (91-93) for an 18 yr old and gets a ton of GBs. He has a plus curve and a good change at this point too. I dont deal him either. He is so young and is handling the long season league pretty well (at least until recently). Once he gets his feet under him, he will move much faster than Betances. i dont deal him either.

 

Adam Olbrychowski is a name you might be wondering why I even have him on this list. Well, he's a 2007 draftee and was the closer at Pepperdine. He's since been converting to the rotation and was dominant until he went down with an injury. Since coming back he has been beyond awful. With time, he could be a solid pitcher. High 90s fastball with a good curve. But he is far enough down on the depth chart that I'd deal him. Just right now, his worth isnt that high.

 

Angel Reyes is our 21 yr old enigma. A lefty with a power arm and solid curve, he injured his back last yr and was damn near useless. This yr, he was hit with a steroid suspension and has finally returned. I'd deal him

 

Now for the offense...

 

Jesus Montero is the yankees #3 prospect IMO. 18 yr old dominating long season as their catcher. .323 BA, 14HR, solid slugging. Could use a bit on the patience side. D has improved. He is gonna be a beat. No deals

 

Austin Romine is a kid who was drafted out of high school to catch. He is a solid catcher with a great arm and developing power. He's holding his own in long season as a first yr pro. I think better things are to come with him, so I hold onto him for now.

 

Brandon Laird 20 yr old kid with tons and tons of power. 18 homers in 390ABs and an isolated power of over .200. Doesnt walk much and K's a fair amount. I think we hang onto this kid for now, but I also wont be too averse to moving him.

 

Justin Snyder utility guy with lots of speed and a good eye. I wouldnt be averse to moving him.

 

Bradley Suttle is a kid I dont deal. Switch hitter with a good eye, solid power (IsoPower>.200). Plays 3b but will likely be moved to 1b. He was dubbed the "best pure hitter" in the 2007 draft and he hasnt disappointed.

 

Then you get to the kids who are projects.

 

Carmen Angelini and Abraham Almonte are toolsy guys with tons of speed who are playing rather poorly in their debut to long season. I wont deal them right now solely based upon their potential and the fact that their value right now is nil

 

Then there are other fringe guys like Austin Krum, Dave Williams, and the like who I'd deal at the drop of a hat

 

What about Andrew Brackman?

 

Also, I think Moreno is moving to 1B. The scouts aren't too keen on his ability behind the plate. He's got enough hitting ability that he can be an everyday player at 1B.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thank you for the post. It was very informative.

 

My comments, since you included major leaguers:

 

 

A potential solid #3. Lacks the fastball to be a dominating number one pitcher, and doesn't have that signature pitch. Sadly, came with so much hype that he can never live up to. I can't see him being a dominant pitcher.

 

He's throwing 95 mph in AAA. Sitting 93-95. If that isnt a top flight FB, then I dont know what is. Regardless, his MO is to sit 92-94. Which is exactly where Santana sits.

 

A non-prospect, his numbers this year not-withstanding. A below average fastball that registers as 87-89 mph, and poor control. It's his fastball that makes me believe that he will never be anything more than an AAAA pitcher. Location he can acquire. Another 5 MPH he can't. He may make it as a junk-balling reliever, since he doesn't have the power or deception to get through an order more than once [this season, he can't get through it once].

 

agree to disagree. He has back of the rotation potential. He can throw 88-91 which is better than a lot of major leaguers. Right now, something is off. If he fixes it, then you'll love him. If he doesnt, he'll be traded

 

Doesn't have plus pitches. His fastball is average for a reliever, and his secondary pitches are nothing to write home about. One in a long line of mediocre relievers. I'd move him if the right deal comes along.

 

Have you seen his curveball? Have you seen his changeup? He's throwing 92-94, that's mediocre? Cmon now, for a guy who prides himself on watching the pitchers, you arent even watching. His only knock this yr is that he is walking too many. He's allowed less than a hit per inning and has K'd 24 in 19IP. Not bad. Also considering the fact that he was drafted in 2006 and he's been pretty good

 

Could be good if he gets his control down. Live arm, good stuff, but leaves too many things in the middle of the plate. If he learns to live on the corners, he could be a shut down reliever.

 

Agreed

 

Total, unmitigated garbage. I'd trade him for anything you can get as soon as possible. A below average fastball and a great change when he controls it. However, batters are learning to lay off and are crushing his changeup. He will be the kind of pitcher that gets 7-8-9 out, but 3-4-5 will routinely destroy him. IF..and only IF...he develops a third pitch, he could turn into a useful 6th or maybe even 7th inning pitcher.

 

I dont know why you hate him so much. His ERA is under 4, his WHIP is close to 1, and he has 51K in 43IP. He is what he is. A middle reliever. But he has a role and has actually been pretty good this yr.

 

I fear he simply doesn't have the hand-eye coordination to succeed in the big leagues. He was routinely late on fastballs in his cup of tea in the majors, while using just the upper body. Does not stride at all into the pitch, generating no power. Frustrating, because he'd be a perfect fit for the Yankees with his speed at the top of the order and range in the OF. If he can work on strengthening his wrists and using his lower body to generate gap-power, he'd be in the majors in a heartbeat.

 

This is why I was hesitant to see him come to the bigs. i was hoping we could showcase him, have enough people fall in love with the ellsbury idea and deal him. I dont think he will be a MLB regular, but at the same time, his MO is to be a VERY slow starter. If given enough time, he can get on base at a pretty nice clip. And with that speed, watch out. I just dont think it is in the cards in NY.

 

I don't know the rest, but thank you very much for your post. I learned a bit, but to be honest, I toned down every player you listed a notch

[jacksonianmarch]

What about Andrew Brackman?

 

Also, I think Moreno is moving to 1B. The scouts aren't too keen on his ability behind the plate. He's got enough hitting ability that he can be an everyday player at 1B.

 

Brackman had an appendectomy right before he was scheduled to hit the mound again. He's due to face live batters soon. He'll be in Tampa for 2009 and should rise quickly.

 

Montero has gotten a LOT better behind the plate, from what I have read. But his bat is so special that you dont really want to put him in harms way behind the dish. Catchers have shorter primes and shorter careers. This kid has a corner IF bat and will be a top flight HR hitter when he makes it. But coming up as a catcher cannot hurt. And if he continues to improve, then he could be a very nice asset to have as a catcher

[Gom]

About Hughes...

He's throwing 95 mph in AAA. Sitting 93-95. If that isnt a top flight FB' date=' then I dont know what is. Regardless, his MO is to sit 92-94. Which is exactly where Santana sits. [/quote']

By my standards....99+ is outstanding. 95-98 Is above average. 91-94 is average. We're talking just velocity here, not movement. He has an average fastball.

About Kennedy...

agree to disagree. He has back of the rotation potential. He can throw 88-91 which is better than a lot of major leaguers. Right now, something is off. If he fixes it, then you'll love him. If he doesnt, he'll be traded

Come on Jacko. With the exception of Jaime Moyer and Mussina, exactly who throws fastballs in the 80's? It is below average.

 

About Robertson

Have you seen his curveball? Have you seen his changeup? He's throwing 92-94, that's mediocre? Cmon now, for a guy who prides himself on watching the pitchers, you arent even watching. His only knock this yr is that he is walking too many. He's allowed less than a hit per inning and has K'd 24 in 19IP. Not bad. Also considering the fact that he was drafted in 2006 and he's been pretty good

Like I said average pitchers. Don't think he'll be garbage, don't think he'll be someone you feel comfortable with. Assembly-line type RP. Average curve, average change. What he's got going for him is variety, what he's got going against him is control.

 

About Edwar Ramirez

I dont know why you hate him so much. His ERA is under 4, his WHIP is close to 1, and he has 51K in 43IP. He is what he is. A middle reliever. But he has a role and has actually been pretty good this yr.

I don't like him because he doesn't know how to pitch. Look, one thing about numbers..they only tell you after the fact. When you have a good changeup, it's a strikeout pitch, not a strike pitch. In order for a changeup to be effective, you should NEVER show it more than twice in an AB, preferably only once. He throws his changeups early in counts, then goes to his fastball. I realize you can't be predictable in your selection, but he's just plain stupid. I consistently see him shaking off Molina when Molina knows what he's doing, and Edwar doesn't. Without a third pitch, he's garbage, because his FB is only 90-91 with no movement.

 

About Gardner...

This is why I was hesitant to see him come to the bigs. i was hoping we could showcase him, have enough people fall in love with the ellsbury idea and deal him. I dont think he will be a MLB regular, but at the same time, his MO is to be a VERY slow starter. If given enough time, he can get on base at a pretty nice clip. And with that speed, watch out. I just dont think it is in the cards in NY.

I don't know about how he starts or not, but his bat speed isn't there, his torque in his swing isn't there, and his ability, I fear, isn't there either. However, it's frustrating because I think he's OHSOCLOSE. I'd like to see him swing underwater in the minors to strengthen those wrists and rotate his hips on swings. Maybe a switch to a more open stance can help him learn to use his legs more on a swing.

[jacksonianmarch]

The average MLB fastball for a starting pitcher is 89-91mph. You go by gradations on a 20-80 scale. 50 is considered MLB average

 

96+ - 80

94-96 - 70

92-93 - 60

89-91- 50

87-88- 40

85-86- 30

84- 20

 

Phil Hughes was throwing a *60* or an above average MLB fastball at the beginning of the yr (FB average of 91.7mph). He is now throwing about a *65* (or above average to good) depending on which readings you see. As much as you might like to impose your own standards, you probably should go by the scouting services standards since theirs are a bit better studied

 

 

In terms of who throws fastballs in the 80s, do you want a list? Here goes....

Hamels

Moyer

Pedro

Zito

Washburn

Duchsherer

Garrett Olson

Brian Burres

Tim Wakefield

Curt Schilling

Mike Mussina

Andy Pettitte

Andy Sonnanstine

Sean Marcum

Jesse Litsch

Tom Glavine

Greg Maddux

need I go on? There are plenty more. Most sit in the 88-89 range.

[jacksonianmarch]

btw, as much as you try, you arent a good scout. You are grading a rookie on his "torque" when he's seeing some of the best pitchers in the game for the first time. You cannot grade kids by how they look when they first come up. If that was the case, Duddy Pedroia would be an afterthought. He looked AWFUL when he came up to the bigs. But once he got comfortable, he started swinging like he knew how. I agree on the Edwar comment. I think pitchability is something he needs to work on. That and his slider. His slider is actually not all that bad. He just needs to use it a bit more. In terms of Robertson, I dont know what you are watching. To call his curveball anything less than plus is garbage. Does he have plus location with it, NO. Hence why it isnt plus-plus. But it is one of the better benders you will see come out of the minors. If you think he'll be mediocre, so be it. But dont bend the truth.

[Gom]

Jacko...You are listing pitchers with below average fastballs. Ok...better question. Who has a sub-standard fastball? Wakefield? LOL! Any fastball that doesn't break 90 is below average.

 

According to eFastball.com, the average fastball in the Pros [including the minors] is 91. I would guess that the majors has a fastball average slightly higher than that. Here's the link:

http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/average-pitching-speed-by-age-group/

 

Yes, I judge hitters by how they swing. How else should I judge them? Their diet? Their movie preference? Their religion?

 

Like I said, Pedroia didn't impress me. I'm not perfect. I miss sometimes. However, I'm much better than what I've seen from Cashman, and that pisses me off, because if me, a casual observer can pick this up, how the hell can't he?

 

I just think you need to have played the game to know what to look for. I love watching former players, especially Hershieser, on BBTN. They point out things I never picked up when I played. I also love Todd Jones's weekly articles in The Sporting News. They tell me what to look for when I'm watching a game. To me, that's the fun of watching the baseball game [now that the Yankees are finished].

 

I don't call a pitch a plus unless it's a) a pitch he can throw a pitch he can throw for a strike with some regularity. There is a gray area there as to "regularity". The only exception I make is on a fastball. You can create better break on a breaking pitch, but you generally can't increase FB speed. With fastball, it's all about gaining location as you mature.

[jacksonianmarch]

You really think Cashman is the only guy making these decisions? Do you really think he alone is scouting these players? Cmon now. That type of argument holds absolutely no water. Cashman has legions of scouts that he can call up and get scouting reports from.

 

Your definition of plus is actually not the definition used by scouts. The first plus has everything to do with the break. A plus pitch is one that has a sharp break. The second plus typically involves location.

[yankee20715]

T

Dave Robertson I love this kid and think he'll be setting up for our closer for yrs to come. He is young right now and occasionally loses the zone. But his arsenal goes three plus pitches deep, he can sit 92-94 and has the stuff to be dominant. Keep this kid

 

 

I completely agree. 100% agree with that.

 

I love this kid too. I agree too he has a nasty curve and a damn good change.

 

Him and Veras I want to hold on too and keep them around they will both be dominant RPs in the future.

[Gom]

Not a scout Jacko. I don't plus plus anything baby!

 

It's either a good pitch or it isn't. My definition.

 

No, I don't think it's Cashman. You blame the person in charge. You think everything is George Bush's fault? Or Isiaiah Thomas's fault? No. However, you hold accountable the person in charge. He [his organization of scouts, etc.] is substandard in his tenure. He's the only one really negotiationg with free agents and other GMs. I think, at least. So the onus falls on him.

I completely agree. 100% agree with that.

 

I love this kid too. I agree too he has a nasty curve and a damn good change.

 

Him and Veras I want to hold on too and keep them around they will both be dominant RPs in the future.

Screw you, you fat bastard. You're not allowed to post here. Go back to zubaz.

[yankee20715]

Face it Robertson and Veras are the future of the bullpen. Both are damn good.

 

Or should we just go ahead and sign KRod in the off-season since he is a FA and wants more than Rivera and the Angels wont give it to him.

[Gom]

I'm higher on Veras than both of you, and lower on Robertson than both of you. I can live with that.

 

I'm not sure who will give him that money. His windup looks like it's a major risk for arm injury.

[TheKilo]

Please please please please overpay for KRod.

[Gom]

We probably would if we didn't have Rivera. The way I see it is as follows.

 

CC in Anaheim. Tex in Pinstripes. Sheets in Boston.

 

Yanks repeat 3rd place finish.

[BoSox21]

CC in Anaheim. Tex in Pinstripes. Sheets in Boston.

 

I dont see us shelling out big for a pitcher with Beckett's deal up after next year

[TheKilo]

RE: Edwar Ramirez

 

"I was upset they threw him out of the game because he's really good hitting. He's a cute little fella, he didn't throw that hard and he doesn't have very good stuff. So it's probably a good idea they threw him out, because it probably would've been in Monument Park."

[BoSox21]

"he's a cute little fella"

 

I love that

[jacksonianmarch]

Once again, love the crow eating here.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I wish I was a member when Gom was around.

[yankees228]

Skimmed this quickly, but my favorite part was Gom ranking FB velocities. 98 MPH = 'above average' ... lol.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wish I was a member when Gom was around.

 

no, you really don't. He was incredibly annoying

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I've seen his post. He'd take a cheap shot often at posters but he did also know baseball and I thought he was funny.

[Jasonbay44]

My favorite thing about Gom was his obsession with Jose Molina and his amazing framing pitch ability.