Jason Bay v. Manny Ramirez

[CalvnHobs6]

I hope jason bay goes 0-4 and Manny goes 4-4 to make the Red Sox regret what they did.

 

Yeah, that'll show em!!! I'm Paddy Tanniger, the caddy manager. Yeah it rhymes, big whoop, wanna fight about it?!

 

EDIT: A most heartfelt welcome to the site, by the way.

[BSN07]

User Name, I see you have calmed down a little since the intial trade came out. I understand where your coming from, I too am a Manny fan. But putting my fanhood/emotions aside, I realize this is something the Sox had to do for better or worse. Especially after hearing the story of Theo gathering the Vets together and they ALL said Manny had to go. Manny was sucking the life from the team and it showed alot during the Angels series.

 

As for Bay, hes an adequate replacement, shown by the stats posted by others already, everyone should be cheering there ass's off for this guy and make him feel as welcome as possible. I hope he doesn't get booed and jeered from the same knuclke draggers that booed Drew for replacing hop along Trot.

[yeszir]

I hope jason bay goes 0-4 and Manny goes 4-4 to make the Red Sox regret what they did.

 

Wade Boggs says hi!

[example1]

I hope jason bay goes 0-4 and Manny goes 4-4 to make the Red Sox regret what they did.

 

Just what the hell have the Sox done?

 

Look, MANNY WAS NOT GOING TO BE WITH THE RED SOX IN 2009!!

 

They had a choice: have Manny leave at the end of the season and go find a corner OF (in which case Jason Bay would have been one of the best available), or USE Manny's value for the rest of this season to plan beyond his Sox stay in 2009.

 

In other words, either:

1) let him go and get draft picks but create a gap in LF that only a few players can approach filling and which would have required giving away some of our best prospects to fill it or...

2) trade him to fill that gap and be done with his headaches while also saving the team's best prospects.

 

Manny would have wanted 25m a season next year. Is that something the Sox "did"? No, that's Manny's ego telling him to demand more than he's worth.

 

The Sox aren't in the business of placating egos, they're in the business of putting a quality product on the field. Right now, in August, the team seems a little downgraded. However, they were going to be REALLY downgraded if we held onto Manny for 2 more months and then had him leave. Look at the available corner OFs available after this year and tell us what they should have done after this season.

 

It really is a no-brainer folks, as far as I can see.

[BoSox21]

add the fact that the Sox are gonna have a ton of cash to spend in the off-season

[example1]

add the fact that the Sox are gonna have a ton of cash to spend in the off-season

 

Exactly. It is choices like this that allow them to outbid teams for players like Matsuzaka with 51m, to overpay for highly touted (but college committed) draft picks, or to sign people in their prime unlike just about every other team in baseball (we all know who the other teams are).

 

Again... no brainer.

[User Name]

Manny would have wanted 25m a season next year. Is that something the Sox "did"? No' date=' that's Manny's ego telling him to demand more than he's worth. [/quote']

 

Or Scott Boras.

[example1]

Or Scott Boras.

 

I think it is dangerous to assume that Manny was perfectly fine and suddenly turned when he got Boras. He isn't a guy who was making 3m a season and putting up enormous numbers; he's a guy who is used to being paid 20m a year and is defensive about the fact that he no longer warrants it.

[ORS]

I think it's more complicated than that, almost a chicken and the egg scenario. I think Boras certainly filled his head with visions of a longer more lucrative contract than the options presented. But, why did he hire Boras in the first place? All we heard prior to him hiring Boras was that he wanted the options picked up. I think Manny became a bit paranoid that it wouldn't happen, then went out and got the agent with the big money reputation for his, in his mind, impending free-agency.

 

Many have claimed the Sox could have put this issue to bed by making a decision on his options at some point earlier in this season, and I agree, that would have assuaged his concerns, one way or the other. What I don't get is why it's fair to expect them to make the decision before the contract says they have to.

[User Name]

I think it is dangerous to assume that Manny was perfectly fine and suddenly turned when he got Boras. He isn't a guy who was making 3m a season and putting up enormous numbers; he's a guy who is used to being paid 20m a year and is defensive about the fact that he no longer warrants it.

 

Oh, no, indeed I'm not saying it's just Boras. But I really do think Manny would probably be on the Red Sox if it weren't for him. Boras was like a magnifying glass to Manny's personal problems and greed.

[BudLight]

I think it's more complicated than that, almost a chicken and the egg scenario. I think Boras certainly filled his head with visions of a longer more lucrative contract than the options presented. But, why did he hire Boras in the first place? All we heard prior to him hiring Boras was that he wanted the options picked up. I think Manny became a bit paranoid that it wouldn't happen, then went out and got the agent with the big money reputation for his, in his mind, impending free-agency.

 

Many have claimed the Sox could have put this issue to bed by making a decision on his options at some point earlier in this season, and I agree, that would have assuaged his concerns, one way or the other. What I don't get is why it's fair to expect them to make the decision before the contract says they have to.

 

ORS - agreed that under the terms of his contract the Sox did not "owe" Manny a decision on their 09 option for him at this point, however, when a team has a talent such as Manny and two WS championships in the last 4 season due in large part to his talents, they could have spoke to him privately and which way they were leaning. What could have happened: if the Sox said they were not picking up the option Manny would have either retreated into his shell or he would have played to the top of his game knowing that he needed to finish strong to get the $$ he would be seeking for next season. On the other hand if the Sox told him they were leaning toward picking up the option, he would have been a happy camper for the rest of the season.

[Jayhawk Bill]

ORS - agreed that under the terms of his contract the Sox did not "owe" Manny a decision on their 09 option for him at this point' date=' however, when a team has a talent such as Manny and two WS championships in the last 4 season due in large part to his talents, they could have spoke to him privately and which way they were leaning. What could have happened: if the Sox said they were not picking up the option Manny would have either retreated into his shell or he would have played to the top of his game knowing that he needed to finish strong to get the $$ he would be seeking for next season. On the other hand if the Sox told him they were leaning toward picking up the option, he would have been a happy camper for the rest of the season.[/quote']

 

This post presumes logical thought on Manny's part. That may be too great an assumption.

[a700hitter]

On the other hand if the Sox told him they were leaning toward picking up the option' date=' he would have been a happy camper for the rest of the season.[/quote']Unfortunately with Manny he had a meltdown every season whether or not there was a reason. Last year was the first year in quite some time when he didn't have some sort of melt down, and the only reason he didn't IMO was that he was on the DL for about 4 weeks in August. I am very sad that the Manny era is over in Boston. He had phenomenal years in Boston and he teamed with Papi to do things that we may not see ever again. Plus, the team won two World Championships. Add to that the fact that Manny being Manny was usually incredibly entertaining. However, after watching this pattern of inexplicable behavior over several years, I think he has a mental disorder. The meltdowns and now the violent outbursts are more than quirkiness.

 

As an aside, there were articles about him practicing meditation during spring training. At the time, I thought that Manny was gaining an inner peace, but the opposite was true. In the past his melt downs and outbursts were not physical. This year he attacks a teammate in the dugout and attacks an old man. It reminds me of the "Serenity Now" episode of Seinfeld where Costanza's father and Kramer would repeat "serenity now" as a mantra when they were in an aggravating circumstance. Rather than giving them inner peace, it merely bottled up their emotions which eventually exploded in violent anger. Kramer destroyed several thousand dollars of computers.

 

Back to Manny. Every year around 80-100 games into the season, he would melt down. Was it the stress of playing a long season, the time of year, or something else? I don't think Manny will do very well mentally in his new surroundings. He is a creature of habit. He has been such a great hitter for so long, because of his ritualistic hard work approach to hitting. This change could really upset him. I don't think he is a player that needed a change of scenery, no matter how much he complained that he wanted out.

[ORS]

ORS - agreed that under the terms of his contract the Sox did not "owe" Manny a decision on their 09 option for him at this point' date=' however, when a team has a talent such as Manny and two WS championships in the last 4 season due in large part to his talents, they could have spoke to him privately and which way they were leaning. What could have happened: if the Sox said they were not picking up the option Manny would have either retreated into his shell or he would have played to the top of his game knowing that he needed to finish strong to get the $$ he would be seeking for next season. On the other hand if the Sox told him they were leaning toward picking up the option, he would have been a happy camper for the rest of the season.[/quote']

I realize that could have happened, and I still find it an unfair expectation.

[Paradisecity]

Manny Ramirez + Defense + Left Field in Dodger Stadium = Lots of Manny being Manny.

[rician blast]

Everyone will have an initial defiant reaction.

 

Watch tonight's game. First time Bay comes to the plate he will get a solid ovation. REAL fans try and make it easier for their team's players to succeed..at least initially...rather than harder.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I like this trade...

[CalvnHobs6]

Jason Bay just gave a solid press conference on NESN. He said all of the right things, and it sounds like we'll get to like him.

[riverside sluggers]

Ill do a weekly update on stats, side by side comparison of what each player has done since the trade

 

Manny Ramirez

LA Dodgers since trade are 2-2

10 for 16 (.625 avg) Double, 2 HRs, 5 RBIs, 5 Runs, 2 Walks, 2 Ks

 

Jason Bay

Red Sox since trade are 4-1

9 for 21 (.429 avg) 2 Doubles, Triple, HR, 6 RBIs, 8 Runs, 3 Walks, 5 Ks

[Thumper]

Ill do a weekly update on stats, side by side comparison of what each player has done since the trade

 

Manny Ramirez

LA Dodgers since trade are 2-1

8 for 13 (.615 avg) Double, 2 HRs, 5 RBIs, 4 Runs, 2 Ks

 

Jason Bay

Red Sox since trade are 3-1

5 for 16 (.313 avg) Triple, HR, 4 RBIs, 6 Runs, 3 Walks, 5 Ks

 

Despite the fact Manny's doing better. Who's to say those would be the same numbers if he were still in Boston? Who's to say he wouldn't slack more, or just flat out not hit good with all the mess there could have been?

 

I don't care how well Manny's hitting in Los Angeles. I care about how well Bay is hitting in Boston.

[example1]

Despite the fact Manny's doing better. Who's to say those would be the same numbers if he were still in Boston? Who's to say he wouldn't slack more, or just flat out not hit good with all the mess there could have been?

 

I don't care how well Manny's hitting in Los Angeles. I care about how well Bay is hitting in Boston.

 

At least one of Manny's HR's would not have left Fenway--probably a long single off the monster. It was a tremendous blast, but a line drive.

 

It will be hard to compare much other than the W-L of the various teams and the players' individual performances.

[Dojji]

This is probably the most unfair possible time to start a thread like this Bay's going to look pretty bad because he didn't have a good game -- and of course, Manny did.

 

Then there's the fact that the pitchers Manny faced were Randy Johnson in the role of Methuselah (who shut Manny down for the most part). spot starter Yusmeiro Petit, and mediocre lefty Doug Davis. That's not quite comparable with facing Justin Duchscherer or Gil Meche for 7 innings. Bay has faced much more pitching talent -- even the kids we pasted in the second and third Oakland games at Fenway are pretty talented prospects/rookies although they haven't come into their own yet.

[Mr Crunchy]

i see ortiz has a problem with his wrist,he heard a clicking noise.

hmmmn

clicking noises,kind of like a clock kind of clicking david?

you cant measure mannys worth by mannys #s alone

theres a lot of other things that need to be counted when discussing manny and him not being here.

in any case manny isnt responsible for ellsbury hitting like s*** or veritek becoming a xen buddhist.

[riverside sluggers]

Despite the fact Manny's doing better. Who's to say those would be the same numbers if he were still in Boston? Who's to say he wouldn't slack more, or just flat out not hit good with all the mess there could have been?

 

I don't care how well Manny's hitting in Los Angeles. I care about how well Bay is hitting in Boston.

 

Just putting out this here agin, I have been all for Bay since I heard the trade rumors coming out of nowhere. Manny pissed me off with his bailing on the team antics and Im glad in La

 

Last night I noticed this thread, I thought no harm in doing saide by side comparison stats every week just for kicks

 

I know one thing and thats for Bay to start hitting 4th behind Ortiz

[TheKilo]

I think he's fit in just fine.

[jlcrss9]

I quite like Bay. My father grew up around Pittsburgh so ive always followed the Pirates to a small extent and thought highly of bay. Produces in a crappy hitters park for an even worse team. Now we get to see him in a ballpark where he can pepper the wall for doubles whenever he wants and is surrounded by much better hitters. There is no chance he will ever be as good as Manny was in his prime, but there havent been many hitters ever who could say that. Plus, I doubt we will be hearing "It's just Bay being Bay" in a bad sense anytime soon.

[BoSox21]

honestly, its just refreshing to not have to worry about an athlete's mood as to whether he'll give maximum effort or not and thats the way it should be