Blow it Up

[Sox fan in Tex]

This thread is ridiculous. As PATHETIC as we have played, we are still only two games back of the Rays and we lead the Twins in the Wild Card race by a game. Think about that for a moment. As bad as things are right now, things won't stay like this. We have too much talent to be playing this poor of baseball.

[BoSox21]

aside from the bullpen, which is showing signs of coming around, I see no weakness on this team unless you count the cleanup hitter's volatile attitude as being a weakness

[example1]

Guys - give me a reason for optimism then. Something. Anything.

 

You probably don't need them, but off the top of my head...

 

We still have the Wild Card despite playing some s***** series against the Angels (twice) and the Yankees (once) over the past few weeks.

 

We have Josh Beckett, other teams do not. Playoffs/big games are more fun with him around. (Same can be said of Manny and Ortiz... for the most part).

 

Pedroia is having the year of his life and is blossoming into one of the best all-around players and leaders in baseball. He could play for another 15 seasons.

 

The Angels--not the Yankees--appear to be the team to beat for the World Series.

 

The front office is not as reactionary as you or I are.

 

We are the defending World Series Champions--even if we don't win in 08 (which we very much can) that is something to rest our hat on and not lose sight of.

 

We only got David Ortiz back a few nights ago.

 

JD Drew is looking less like a bust than he did at this time last year.

 

Our farm system has depth and is contributing to the current success of the team (Lester, Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia and Ellsbury to name a few).

 

The season is 162 games long and there are still 54 games left

 

The Sox have the 2nd best run differential in all of baseball--Ex W-L puts us 20 games over, and the D-Rays 10 games over.

 

The Sox have a better record at this date than they did in 2004 and the 4th best record in baseball

 

need this post go on with reasons to be optimistic?

[Gom]

Guys - give me a reason for optimism then. Something. Anything.

If you win, another off-season of pissing me off.

[TheKilo]

Blowing it up is a bit much.

 

What I would not do is trade someone like Reddick, Anderson, or Bowden for a RP because I don't think it's worth it.

 

I would trade MR though.

[VA Sox Fan]

I'm usually one of the more optimistic people here/QUOTE]

 

I politely disagree with this statement.

[TheKilo]

Look through all of my posts last year.

 

I don't get the same feeling with this year's team.

 

And if this is about Varitek it's safe to say I've been right.

[riverside sluggers]

Im feeling good for a hot August that will spill over into September. 34-20 run

 

To start it off, Beckett is getting his 10th Win tonight

[TheKilo]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/talk-sox-forum/9552-its.html

 

^^Positive.

[VA Sox Fan]

Look through all of my posts last year.

 

I don't get the same feeling with this year's team.

 

And if this is about Varitek it's safe to say I've been right.

 

It has nothing to do with Varitek.

 

We're not going to win the WS every year. But I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the post season, barring any major injuries.

 

I was furious last night thinking we were gonna get no hit, thank you Dustin and Youk.

 

We've been a little slow out of the gate since the All Star break. Even if we don't make the play offs under no circumstances should or will this team be Blown Up.

[VA Sox Fan]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/talk-sox-forum/9552-its.html

 

^^Positive.

 

:thumbsup: Very positive. But I wasn't referring to 2007. It's all good. You got frustrated and started this thread, it's the way you felt at the time. Upon reflection, it appears you feel it's a little much to Blow Up the team. We all have our moments.

 

Now, please win tonight TEAM!

[Mr Crunchy]

come on kilo

we got the allstar game mvp on our team,what more do we need??

sorry i had to bustem a bit as im in a foul mood

theres no disgrace losing to the angels but 5 in a row does give me s*** pains.

the angels got better this week

the yanks got better this week

and our general manager wants to deal our best hitter

is it a nationwide conspiracy to give me chest pains,seems that way

the yanks have lost 2 to baltimore and the rays will be caught by one of us

man for man our pitching is still better than theres

we win the division this year by a close but comfortable 4 games

tampa spends september outside of florida and the yanks play the angels quite a bit down the stretch

we're flat and need a spark at the top of the order that ellsbury hasnt brought to the table in 3 months,a little spark and more consistant pitching from the bullpen and we'll be ok.

blow it up?

we got 5 men pitching for us in their 20s who have been or will be allstars,plus the minors are stacked.

thats a pretty good place to be if your a sox fan

[example1]

It's not just our GM who wants to trade our "best hitter" (who I would rank as our 2nd or 3rd best hitter). I want him gone too. (not that it matters )

[Mr Crunchy]

ya

that will go a long way to making our offense more productive.

i stated back when this s*** with the clubhouse guy went down that it wasnt the end of it and now i feel like nostradamus....heres another prediction,we move manny for a national leaguer who has decent #s and put the new guy in at cleanup and we end up behind ny and tampa...its not just his #s that will be effected,see where drew went hitting in front of manny?ortiz has never been successful without manny behind him....moving manny with 50 games left on his contract isnt smart unless you're getting a similar bat in return,albert pujols isnt coming here so theres no one who can replace him,no one.

in novemeber we can rebuild an offense more suited to life without manny but now,in the middle of the season,we just cant take this kind of hit without suffering...we're not talking about nomar we're talking about our best hitter and the man who makes everyone around him much more productive because manny makes opposing pitchers s*** green when they have to see him when the money is on the table....3 more months and i'll drive him to logan myself,till then,unless he decides to create complete anarchy in the dugout (which may have already occured) we need his bat....hes always been a pain in the ass but hes never been a cancer......is he cancer now?..christ i hope not,i hope hes done sending messages and i hope he has enuff sense to understand that the better he produces the more he makes next year and if he insists on holding this ballclub hostage the buyers in november will back off big time and i will be at beth-israel getting chest xrays...

[example1]

ya

that will go a long way to making our offense more productive.

i stated back when this s*** with the clubhouse guy went down that it wasnt the end of it and now i feel like nostradamus....heres another prediction,we move manny for a national leaguer who has decent #s and put the new guy in at cleanup and we end up behind ny and tampa...its not just his #s that will be effected,see where drew went hitting in front of manny?ortiz has never been successful without manny behind him....moving manny with 50 games left on his contract isnt smart unless you're getting a similar bat in return,albert pujols isnt coming here so theres no one who can replace him,no one.

in novemeber we can rebuild an offense more suited to life without manny but now,in the middle of the season,we just cant take this kind of hit without suffering...we're not talking about nomar we're talking about our best hitter and the man who makes everyone around him much more productive because manny makes opposing pitchers s*** green when they have to see him when the money is on the table....3 more months and i'll drive him to logan myself,till then,unless he decides to create complete anarchy in the dugout (which may have already occured) we need his bat....hes always been a pain in the ass but hes never been a cancer......is he cancer now?..christ i hope not,i hope hes done sending messages and i hope he has enuff sense to understand that the better he produces the more he makes next year and if he insists on holding this ballclub hostage the buyers in november will back off big time and i will be at beth-israel getting chest xrays...

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Manny is having a season about as good as JD Drew is having in terms of his production, if you look at BP's BRAR and BRAA numbers. That's pretty good but would anyone actually say that only Albert Pujols could replace JD Drew?

 

Not ALL successful teams have a 3-4 combination like Ortiz and Ramirez. It isn't a prerequisate--winning teams can be constructed in all sorts of ways.

 

The fact that none of us take it as a GIVEN that this guy will show up and play every day should be very concerning, no?

 

I don't know if he is a cancer now or not. I do know that he told teammates last week that he would sit out until the KC series, and that was what prompted the Sox to get him to have 2 MRIs and to force him into the lineup. I don't know how cancerous he is, but if he had his way he would be WORSE, not better.

 

You're right that at this point he's a very important part of this lineup. At the same time, during what for Manny is an "average to below-average" season, the Sox are second in baseball in run differential (or were two days ago, at least). Let's just stop being held hostage by this guy, basing our success or lack of it on Manny's ability to hit. He's a terrifying hitter for other teams, but he's not Albert Pujols or A-Rod. He just isn't.

[YAZMAN]

The team isn't bad, but they are dead flat right now. Right now they're turning my stomach, pretty soon they'll be back on track. It's a long season, lots of ups and down, ebbs and flows.

[jacksonianmarch]

I thought I was the only reactionary one when my team is leading a playoff race, lol.

 

The sox, as currently constructed WILL make the playoffs. Did I really just say that? Well, yeah. The Rays have had an easy road this month, 2 games in NY notwithstanding and they managed to have a 7 game losing streak. Though they are over .500 in that span, we should expect the Rays to have had a better month. They will fold. I dont believe in the Twins, even though they are currently tied with the sox in the L column for the wild card either. SO barring a massive collapse the sox make it.

 

But is making it all that awesome if you dont have a shot at winning it? As a fan of a team that has gone one and done from 05-07, NO it is not. Right now, the sox are not equipped to win the WS. The bullpen is so putrid that the starters need to get them through 7. And aside from Beckett, there isnt a starter in that staff that can do that with consistency.

 

Now with the deadline looming, the sox in on the Ohman sweeps and Manny being talked about, things can change. I keep hearing Manny for prospects, Manny for Hermida, Manny for Burrell. I honestly think that the best move the sox can make is getting a solid, up and coming OFer while ALSO getting a solid setup man. You dont need to replace all of Manny's offense if you also limit the amount of late leads you give up. So a deal for Hermida isnt a bad idea, so long as you get a pen arm back. I dont see it happening out of FLA. We'll see, while the possibility still exists

[ORS]

And aside from Beckett' date=' there isnt a starter in that staff that can do that with consistency. [/quote']

They traded Lester?

[das11209]

If we do not make any deals - I don't see how we can finish any more than 3rd in our division.

[Beckett95]

I kinda agree with "blowing" the team up, not everyone, but id make a few people available, especially if Manny is dealt. Id put Youk and Lowell on the market, just to see what type of return they could get. Obviously Hansen is on the market, as well as the rest of the bullpen except Paps and Okajima. Id even listen to offers for Bucholz.

[TheKilo]

Biggest game of the year last night and they completely lay an egg. Embarrassing.

[TheKilo]

Bump.

[Dojji]

Masterson to the rotation.

 

Buchholz to AAA, call up Smith to take his spot

 

Lowell to DL

 

Youkilis to 3B, call up Bailey to take his spot.

 

Cash release/DFA/waive

 

Call up Dusty Brown

 

Each of those 3 moves probably help the Sox win more games than they're winning right now.

 

Heck, if it weren't for the immense respect I have for Varitek's leadership on the field I'd be all for throwing out Boston's entire catcher corps and replacing it with Pawtucket's.

[TheKilo]

2008 Red Sox = 2006 Red Sox

[Dojji]

2008 Red Sox = 2006 Red Sox

 

Not hardly. I remember that horror pretty vividly since it was the year I graduated from a casual fan to an obsessive Red Sox freak.

 

Frankly our pitching staff is better than the 2007 version on paper much less the 2006 version (Matt Clement #2 starter anyone?) Although Julian Tavarez won more games for us than Clay Buchholz will finish the season with even if he finishes strong.

 

The real difference is that we don't have the Rays to pick on this year to inflate our win totals -- they're right in the thick of it this year instead.

[Cocos Disciples]

Not hardly. I remember that horror pretty vividly since it was the year I graduated from a casual fan to an obsessive Red Sox freak. Frankly our pitching staff is better than the 2007 version on paper -- although Julian Tavarez won more games for us than Clay Buchholz will finish the season with even if he finishes strong.

 

Although, yes, Tavarez was better in 2007 than Buchholz in 2008, numbers of wins is not the reason.

[Dojji]

Although' date=' yes, Tavarez was better in 2007 than Buchholz in 2008, numbers of wins is not the reason.[/quote']

 

Actually I think it's pretty important as it speaks to the biggest issue a pitcher can have and one of Buchholz' biggest bogeymen -- the ability, or lack thereof, to hold a lead.

 

Trusting Buchholz to hold a lead is like stopping for a hitchhiker wearing a hockey mask on a dark, moonless late November night. Sometimes you can get away with it, but the gamble doesn't seem smart.

 

Lester impressed me in the clutch even when he was bad. Sure part of his win-loss record is the team bailing him out but some of that was Lester's fault too.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that even if wins isn't a particularly accurate metric of a pitcher's overall level of talent it still says something about how well they're doing.

[schillingouttheks]

Actually I think it's pretty important as it speaks to the biggest issue a pitcher can have and one of Buchholz' biggest bogeymen -- the ability, or lack thereof, to hold a lead.

 

Trusting Buchholz to hold a lead is like stopping for a hitchhiker wearing a hockey mask on a dark, moonless late November night. Sometimes you can get away with it, but the gamble doesn't seem smart.

 

Lester impressed me in the clutch even when he was bad. Sure part of his win-loss record is the team bailing him out but some of that was Lester's fault too.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that even if wins isn't a particularly accurate metric of a pitcher's overall level of talent it still says something about how well they're doing.

 

Tavarez, from what I can remember, ate innings. Buchholz does not do such things.

[ORS]

2008 Red Sox = 2006 Red Sox

It's nowhere near that bad. That team featured an unrejuvenated Eric Hinske in LF when Manny was out, not Jason Bay, Doug Mirabelli when Tek was out, and as bad as Tek has been this year, he hasn't sunk to Mirabelli level performance yet, Trot Nixon in RF, Wily Mo in CF, Mark Loretta at 2B, Alex Gonzalez at SS. All that awesomeness and they didn't lead the AL in starter ERA like they do now.

 

This is still a playoff caliber team. It just needs some tweaking. The weak link in the good rotation needs to be sent back down for further development. Lowell needs to be moved way down in the order, or convinced to take a stint on the DL (I feel he's playing hurt). The guys in front of him are getting on base, but he is a cavalcade of suck right now. I don't know what it will take for Francona to make a move to drop him in the order, but I have to suspect the FO has their eyes on this and a conversation will come from it.

[Dojji]

That is true.

 

And what really maddens me is that that Masterson did. Moving Masterson to the pen with no universally acceptable Plan B for long term suckage/injury in place was foolishness.