Mitchell Report

[Thumper]

So this was the big elaborated report....

 

Only people I'm surprised to see on there would be Lo Duca, Gagné, and naturally, Vaughn.

[bobby jr]

The details about Clemens and Pettitte is pretty damning evidence

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/12/13/2007-12-13_yankees_clemens_pettitte_among_players_i-2.html

 

According to the report, when Clemens was with the Blue Jays, he asked Brian McNamee, his long-time trainer, to inject him with Winstrol, which Clemens supplied. McNamme knew the substance was Winstrol because the vials Clemens gave him were so labeled, according to the report. Each incident took place in Clemens' apartment at the SkyDome.

 

The report also said he injected Pettitte with human growth hormone that McNamee obtained from former Mets clubhouse attendant Kirk Radomski on two to four occasions.

[He Hate Me]

Heed your own advice' date=' why dontcha? Your Arod and Abreu obsession while extolling someone for having their own axe to grind is 100% ironical.[/quote']

 

i admit my pinstriped glasses are in the way here but the disproportionate number of prominent current and former Yankees who are on the list as compared to Red Sox seems to be very high.

 

If the report (filed by someone wit an interest in the Yankees) named 5 or 6 prominent members fro the '03 Sox team and gave you the likes of Kevin Maas, Hensley Meulens, Wade Taylor, and Kevin Thompson, I'm sure that Red Sox fans would definetely have some questions about it.

 

To me the fact that he didn't list somone like Kapler (i think he was on Muscle mags or something like that) makes me wonder just how hard he looked in his own backyard.

[Thumper]

i admit my pinstriped glasses are in the way here but the disproportionate number of prominent current and former Yankees who are on the list as compared to Red Sox seems to be very high.

 

If the report (filed by someone wit an interest in the Yankees) named 5 or 6 prominent members fro the '03 Sox team and gave you the likes of Kevin Maas, Hensley Meulens, Wade Taylor, and Kevin Thompson, I'm sure that Red Sox fans would definetely have some questions about it.

 

To me the fact that he didn't list somone like Kapler (i think he was on Muscle mags or something like that) makes me wonder just how hard he looked in his own backyard.

 

Just because you have a strong belief that someone took roids doesn't mean they really did. For example, I strongly felt A-Rod was juicing, but he's not on this report. Now that doesn't mean he's not juicing, and it doesn't mean Kalpar wasn't juicing either. But you'd think this report would bring somewhat of a closure or understanding that some people, who may look like it, don't juice.

[26 to 6]

This thing is just too much. This document is incredible, just reading the specifics of some of the instances. For example the Montreal bullpen catcher who tried to have the Florida equip. manager bring a package containing a POUND OF BUD (hahaha) from Canada to Florida. So much tp diget right now..

[das11209]

OK Santana is not on it - Theo get on your speeddial pronto please.

[Thumper]

Mitchell says that discipline should not be taken from here on back.

 

Selig needs to say f*** that and gett off his ass and take more action.

[He Hate Me]

Just because you have a strong belief that someone took roids doesn't mean they really did. For example' date=' I strongly felt A-Rod was juicing, but he's not on this report. Now that doesn't mean he's not juicing, and it doesn't mean Kalpar wasn't juicing either. But you'd think this report would bring somewhat of a closure or understanding that some people, who may look like it, don't juice.[/quote']

 

All this report does is open itself up to people like me who wonder why there are so many prominent former Yankee players but yet only mentions a few minor league players from the Sox. Would this be a problem normally? No. But it is a problem because George Mitchell is a part owner/employee/whatever of the Sox.

 

Like I said, if it was an employee of the Yankees who released the report and things were flipped around, I doubt RSN wouldn't be asking the types of questions I'm asking.

[das11209]

I hate to do this cut and paste from Yankee site:

 

2000 World Series

 

Game 1 - Yanks win

Starter - Andy Pettitte (steroids)

WP - Mike Stanton (steroids)

Chuck Knoblauch (steroids) with Sac Fly off Benitez to tie the game in the bottom of the 9th.

 

Game 2 - Yanks win

Starter - Roger Clemens (steroids)

WP - Roger Clemens (steroids)

 

Game 3 - Mets win

Starter - Orlando Hernandez

 

Game 4 - Yanks win

Starter - Denny Neagle (steroids)

 

Game 5 - Yanks win

Starter - Andy Pettitte (steroids)

WP - Mike Stanton (steroids)

[das11209]

Another cut and paste - for easy reading:

 

All the players listed in the section VIII. B.: "Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball" (section 3 is "Radomski?s Distribution of Performance Enhancing Substances to Major League Baseball Players")

 

Lenny Dykstra

David Segui

Larry Bigbie

Brian Roberts

Jack Cust

Tim Laker

Josias Manzanillo

Todd Hundley

Mark Carreon

Hal Morris

Matt Franco

Rondell White

Roger Clemens

Andy Pettitte

Chuck Knoblauch

Jason Grimsley

Gregg Zaun

David Justice

F.P. Santangelo

Glenallen Hill

Mo Vaughn

Denny Neagle

Ron Villone

Ryan Franklin

Chris Donnels

Todd Williams

Phil Hiatt

Todd Pratt

Kevin Young

Mike Lansing

Cody McKay

Kent Mercker

Adam Piatt

Miguel Tejada

Jason Christiansen

Mike Stanton

Stephen Randolph

Jerry Hairston

Paul Lo Duca

Adam Riggs

Bart Miadich

Fernando Vina

Kevin Brown

Eric Gagne

Mike Bell

Matt Herges

Gary Bennett, Jr.

Jim Parque

Brendan Donnelly

Chad Allen

Jeff Williams

Howie Clark

Nook Logan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Section IX. B."Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball"

 

Rick Ankiel

Paul Byrd

Jay Gibbons

Troy Glaus

Jose Guillen

Jerry Hairston, Jr.

Gary Matthews, Jr.

Scott Schoeneweis

David Bell

Jose Canseco

Jason Grimsley

Darren Holmes

John Rocker

Ismael Valdez

Matt Williams

Steve Woodard

 

 

There is another section listed: (incomplete)

 

Barry Bonds

Gary Sheffield

[He Hate Me]

I hate to do this cut and paste from Yankee site:

 

2000 World Series

 

Game 1 - Yanks win

Starter - Andy Pettitte (steroids)

WP - Mike Stanton (steroids)

Chuck Knoblauch (steroids) with Sac Fly off Benitez to tie the game in the bottom of the 9th.

 

Game 2 - Yanks win

Starter - Roger Clemens (steroids)

WP - Roger Clemens (steroids)

 

Game 3 - Mets win

Starter - Orlando Hernandez

 

Game 4 - Yanks win

Starter - Denny Neagle (steroids)

 

Game 5 - Yanks win

Starter - Andy Pettitte (steroids)

WP - Mike Stanton (steroids)

 

nice job RSN Mitchell

[ORS]

i admit my pinstriped glasses are in the way here but the disproportionate number of prominent current and former Yankees who are on the list as compared to Red Sox seems to be very high.

 

If the report (filed by someone wit an interest in the Yankees) named 5 or 6 prominent members fro the '03 Sox team and gave you the likes of Kevin Maas, Hensley Meulens, Wade Taylor, and Kevin Thompson, I'm sure that Red Sox fans would definetely have some questions about it.

 

To me the fact that he didn't list somone like Kapler (i think he was on Muscle mags or something like that) makes me wonder just how hard he looked in his own backyard.

I don't get the Kapler obsession. He'd just be another marginal name, another reason for those looking to find a way around this report to claim bias.

 

Ever consider the primary sources of Mitchell's report? One is the former Met's trainer. I know that's not the Yankees, but it is NY, and he supplied Clemens trainer. Perhaps, and this isn't going out on limb, the reason prominent Yankees are on the list is through that connection considering Rajah went to NY immediately after Toronto. Look at the Yankee names. All of the non-Balco (one of the other sources in the report) were on the roster with Rajah. Coincidence?

[He Hate Me]

I don't get the Kapler obsession. He'd just be another marginal name, another reason for those looking to find a way around this report to claim bias.

 

Ever consider the primary sources of Mitchell's report? One is the former Met's trainer. I know that's not the Yankees, but it is NY. Also, prior to that, as mentioned above, he's Clemens former trainer. Perhaps, and this isn't going out on limb, the reason prominent Yankees are on the list is through that connection considering Rajah went to NY immediately after Toronto. Look at the Yankee names. All of the non-Balco (one of the other sources in the report) were on the roster with Rajah. Coincidence?

 

I actually am not disputing the Yankees names. I have no doubt that they were probably on the juice except for Andy. What I am annoyed about and I said in my previous post was that I am not certain that Mr. Mitchell spent that much time focusing on his own backyard because of his connection to the Sox.

[BudLight]

this is in no way an all inclusive list, there never will be one. This doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. Until the players and the players union are subject to telling the truth (will never happen), the extent of use of illegal substances in MLB will never be known. So, Raja literally took it in the ass!! Surprised?

[yeszir]

Biggest surprise to me: John Rocker. The guy never once exhibited evidence of "roid rage".

[Cocos Disciples]

I think the fact that he protected Kapler is just astounding. this report is an absolute joke and huge letdown

 

Lol.

 

I hate to do this cut and paste from Yankee site:

 

2000 World Series

 

Game 1 - Yanks win

Starter - Andy Pettitte (steroids)

WP - Mike Stanton (steroids)

Chuck Knoblauch (steroids) with Sac Fly off Benitez to tie the game in the bottom of the 9th.

 

Game 2 - Yanks win

Starter - Roger Clemens (steroids)

WP - Roger Clemens (steroids)

 

Game 3 - Mets win

Starter - Orlando Hernandez

 

Game 4 - Yanks win

Starter - Denny Neagle (steroids)

 

Game 5 - Yanks win

Starter - Andy Pettitte (steroids)

WP - Mike Stanton (steroids)

 

Lol so stupid. Not like anything like that can be changed now.

[Thumper]

Biggest surprise to me: John Rocker. The guy never once exhibited evidence of "roid rage".

 

And Mo Vaughn?! He was always so nice... like a kid, had a heart for the game.

[BudLight]

And Mo Vaughn?! He was always so nice... like a kid' date=' had a heart for the game.[/quote']

 

 

...and an appetite for the all you can eat buffets!!

[ORS]

I actually am not disputing the Yankees names. I have no doubt that they were probably on the juice except for Andy. What I am annoyed about and I said in my previous post was that I am not certain that Mr. Mitchell spent that much time focusing on his own backyard because of his connection to the Sox.

And you never will be because you won't spend the time to look at the information. Your mind was made up before this list came out, IMO.

 

The fact is, there were only a handful of sources of information, and these are the names associated with those sources. Where else was he supposed to dig? He followed the information available from those who were caught (Radomsky, the FL pharmacy, Grimsley, Balco). It would have been a waste of time to question anyone outside of those investigations because he had no leverage in getting their compliance with the investigation.

 

"So, it appears a major source to the players was trainers. Hey, Mr. Red Sox trainer, did you sell PEDs to anyone? Tell me the truth, or I'll, well, I won't do anything because I have no evidence, so just fess up."

 

vs.

 

"Mr. Radomsky, I've been given the authority to grant you a pardon for your sale of controlled substances if cooperate with this investigation, interested?"

 

Funny how that works.

[Thumper]

...and an appetite for the all you can eat buffets!!

 

Could care less about his eating habbits. Yeah he got fat but I didn't care, he was my hero when I was a little kid.

[das11209]

Hey Brewers - how is that Gagne acquisition working out? Let's see $10 million for a guy who can't do it without juice and might get suspended - not so good.

[He Hate Me]

And you never will be because you won't spend the time to look at the information. Your mind was made up before this list came out, IMO.

 

The fact is, there were only a handful of sources of information, and these are the names associated with those sources. Where else was he supposed to dig? He followed the information available from those who were caught (Radomsky, the FL pharmacy, Grimsley, Balco). It would have been a waste of time to question anyone outside of those investigations because he had no leverage in getting their compliance with the investigation.

 

"So, it appears a major source to the players was trainers. Hey, Mr. Red Sox trainer, did you sell PEDs to anyone? Tell me the truth, or I'll, well, I won't do anything because I have no evidence, so just fess up."

 

vs.

 

"Mr. Radomsky, I've been given the authority to grant you a pardon for your sale of controlled substances if cooperate with this investigation, interested?"

 

Funny how that works.

 

no my mind wasn't made up at all...I was looking forward to this coming out because I actually have never had a problem with condemning Yankees who took steroids. I think anyone who took steroids should be banned, I don't care if they wearing the stripes or the red skirts (i keed i keed).

 

I guess it's because in my mind, and I fear in a lot of other fan's mind, this Mitchell report is the final and definitive list of everyone who cheated the game. Now I know thats not logical ORS but I think that's what the perception is. This will be the only report from MLB on the subject unless it decides to spend another $20M. So the perception form here on out is that the Yankees promnent players were cheaters and that the Red Sox organization was clean as a whistle excpet for some fringe minor leaguers.

 

Perhaps that's the truth, perhaps not. If it was anyone else who had conducted this investigation, I would not have a problem with it. I know my team isn't perfect. george Mitchell's connection the Sox was not an issue for me until I saw the list.

[26 to 6]

I wish a list was compiled of all the players named that way I wouldn't have to dig through this 75463573939465 page document looking for things. God forbid something be made simple..

[das11209]

I wish a list was compiled of all the players named that way I wouldn't have to dig through this 75463573939465 page document looking for things. God forbid something be made simple..

 

Did you check out my post with all the player's names?

[ORS]

If your concern over George Mitchell conducting the investigation didn't exist before the list came out, then it shouldn't exist now if you apply the list to what we know about his sources of information. Bottom line, this isn't the complete list. It's the list of those who were unfortunate enough to have their suppliers caught. That's it.

 

It's kind of sad, really. A guy with Mitchell's rep and resume is going to get dragged through the mud all because of a rivalry. Pathetic. Grow the eff up, people.

[26 to 6]

I wish a list was compiled of all the players named that way I wouldn't have to dig through this 75463573939465 page document looking for things. God forbid something be made simple..

I guess I spoke too late lol...i should have refreshed before making that post, which I had started like 20 minutes prior to completing it (phone call). Thanks das...

 

As for Mitchell, just give it a rest Yankee fans. Considering the sources he had to work with i'm not gonna go crazy here and scream bias. Bottom line is he did what he was hired to do. Just because there weren't more Red Sox named doesnt mean it was intentional, he just did the best he could with what he had to work with. I highly doubt his intentions were to downplay use by Red Sox players and make an extra effort to exploit Yankee users. Bottom line is they're all liars and cheaters. It pains me to feel this way, but when you find out your heroes are nothing but frauds and cheaters it brings about an unexpected mix of emotions.

[Paradisecity]

OK. There aren't many current sox on the list.

 

There aren't many current yankees either.

 

We all know that this list is the tip of the iceberg. If They found everybody there would be lots more YANKS AND SOX on this list.

 

It wasn't biased- it was partial information. They had one source who gave them tons of information. Far from a comprehensive report- and I'm not saying they didnt try, they just could only get a few people on record and the rest of the people wouldnt talk. Not their fault, but definitely notable when discussing the successes and failures, stregths and shortcomings of this report.

 

Beyond the names, the report talks of an internal-affairs like unit in baseball. Whether Mitchell's ideas are used or not remains to be seen. I would say that his future recommendations are much more important than the names on the list. The names just bring it enough attention for people to care enough for the recommendations to occur.

[26 to 6]

If your concern over George Mitchell conducting the investigation didn't exist before the list came out, then it shouldn't exist now if you apply the list to what we know about his sources of information. Bottom line, this isn't the complete list. It's the list of those who were unfortunate enough to have their suppliers caught. That's it.

 

It's kind of sad, really. A guy with Mitchell's rep and resume is going to get dragged through the mud all because of a rivalry. Pathetic. Grow the eff up, people.

Can't help but agree with you. There comes a point where you have to put your team loyalties, and the subsequent rivalries aside to focus on an issue much bigger and more important. This is one of those points. Enough Yankee/Boston ********...the focus here should be on the widespread use throughout professional baseball of illegal performance enhancing drugs, and the effects on the game that it has had. Plain and simple, it's a sad day for baseball, but this WAS necessary.

[He Hate Me]

If your concern over George Mitchell conducting the investigation didn't exist before the list came out' date=' then it shouldn't exist now if you apply the list to what we know about his sources of information. Bottom line, this isn't the complete list. It's the list of those who were unfortunate enough to have their suppliers caught. That's it.[/quote']

 

no its not the complete list, but most fans will think it is. And I'm pretty sure MLB won't be releasing another list for a while.

 

It's kind of sad, really. A guy with Mitchell's rep and resume is going to get dragged through the mud all because of a rivalry. Pathetic. Grow the eff up, people.

 

actually no. I'm not the only one who felt this way about the inappropriate hiring of Mitchell to conduct the investigation.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651

[Thumper]

no its not the complete list, but most fans will think it is. And I'm pretty sure MLB won't be releasing another list for a while.

 

 

 

actually no. I'm not the only one who felt this way about the inappropriate hiring of Mitchell to conduct the investigation.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651

 

f*** Howard Bryant. I'd rather Tim McCarver's opinion.