Mitchell Report

[Mr Crunchy]

My issue is that the Red Sox players on the list did not play a prominent role during their time with the Sox or were not juicing while with the Sox, whereas people like Petite, Clemens, Chuck, Stanton, and Justice satisfy either category.

 

i am relieved eric gagne sucked down the stretch

it would be a shame if his ass tainted a great season for us

[BudLight]

Wow, it amazes me how many people here seem to believe the Mitchell report is the end with all of those who are/were/will continue to take banned substances in MLB. Read the report people. His "evidence" is gleened from a felon who was a low level clubhouse boy in the Mets organization. Faced with the choice of being Bubba's new bitch in a federal penitentiary or talking to George Mitchell, he opted to talk to George Mitchell. Were his allegations truthful, only he knows. Obviously he presented receipts, checks, etc., to back-up some of his claims, but no one knows what the conversations were between him and Mitchell and his staff. No one knows if the names he provided were all inclusive or just those where Mitchell had some sort of "evidence".

 

In reference to those who feel Mitchell was somehow favorably bias to the Red Sox, I disagree. He went with what he had, a former Mets clubhouse stooge and a trainer who worked with Clemens and Pettite. Information from the Albany DA's office on those who ordered junk through a particular pharmacy and some old Balco stuff. Not really a complete list of sources. He worked with what he had, probably less than 1% of possible sources.

[Paradisecity]

hahahaha.

[He Hate Me]

Started? How does anyone really know when someone started. Even in the case of testimony that says a player approached a trainer/team attendant in a particular month/year and asked if he could get stuff and advise what to take...does that mean the player never used anything prior?

 

it's not like Clemens, or anyone else, would say "hey trainer, I've been using sh*t for years but my supplier is gone, can you get me some stuff?" Of course they're going to approach it someone as if they'd never done it before.

 

I'm just going by what the report is saying about the people on here. Though I have a problem with things not included on this report, I don't doubt the authenticity of its contents.

[He Hate Me]

thats a point that has some validity to it

clemens was on the 99 team,juicing since 98 with his own roids

when did he start?

the trainer says roger had his own roids in toronto,his meteoric rebirth began in 97

so based on performance we need to visit roger circa 97

but he threw a 20k game in sept 96?

was he finishing his career in boston legitimately or on the spike??

 

this is a sad day for a lot of good people who believed and worshipped at his altar

i saw an wabc news reporter on good morning america interviewing some youngsters in queens who were reading the daily news headlines...

the chubby kid looks up and says

""he said it was about his work ethic,he said his training was unique,i guess it was really about the steroids""said the 14? year old boy as he threw the paper in the trash with his yankee hat and gotr on the bus for school

 

Clemens and A-Rod are really the same IMO. Both phonies, and one of those people that just makes you very uncomfortable to root for if he's wearing your uni.

 

i am relieved eric gagne sucked down the stretch

it would be a shame if his ass tainted a great season for us

 

It astounds me that this man continues to get contracts from people despite everything.

[He Hate Me]

He had no subpoena power. The MLBPA advised players, current and former, not to talk to him.

 

How do you know he didn't attempt to do these things? It isn't a report of every day, productive or not. There are no line items "Talked to Chicago trainer today, he knows nothing, off to lunch". It's a report of his findings, not a diary.

 

well see thats what I want to know. Did he attempt to talk to the employees who work in the clubhouse? Did he ask the groundskeepers? How about the guy who takes out the trash? Why spend the time talking to GMs but not the administrative employees or former employees? Who is going to be in more CYA mode and who will be more likely to divulge things?

 

I think that transparency is necessary on those kinds of things.

[Paradisecity]

 

i am relieved eric gagne sucked down the stretch

it would be a shame if his ass tainted a great season for us

 

 

this is what i was laughing at....

[Paradisecity]

well see thats what I want to know. Did he attempt to talk to the employees who work in the clubhouse? Did he ask the groundskeepers? How about the guy who takes out the trash? Why spend the time talking to GMs but not the administrative employees or former employees? Who is going to be in more CYA mode and who will be more likely to divulge things?

 

I think that transparency is necessary on those kinds of things.

 

Well i can tell you who is NOT going to divulge things, HHM. And thats some guy with a dream job at a lower level who hasn't been indicted or accused of selling steroids by the federal government.

 

"Gee, I really like working with professional athletes all day and this job is absolutely awesome, but f*** it, I'm gonna talk about everything suspicious here that i've ever seen. Let's bag us some cheaters!"

[He Hate Me]

Well i can tell you who is NOT going to divulge things, HHM. And thats some guy with a dream job at a lower level who hasn't been indicted or accused of selling steroids by the federal government.

 

"Gee, I really like working with professional athletes all day and this job is absolutely awesome, but f*** it, I'm gonna talk about everything suspicious here that i've ever seen. Let's bag us some cheaters!"

 

man where do you think Star and US Weekly gets their sources from? people with dream jobs of working with celebrities

 

sides I've seen ESPN's Playmakers, those clubhouse attendants didn't lok like they had fun doing the laundry for the players (yes yes it's a show, I added this comment for comic relief...please see prior sentence for real reply)

[Mr Crunchy]

hhm gets it

hes as open minded as any yank fan i spoke with today

 

anyone hear from suzy waldman??

think shes drunk in some bed stuy ghetto getting tag teamed by 2 crack heads with 16 inch ivory pierced cocks and a case of muscatelle??

bwahahahaha

 

the more this sinks in the more i feel for the kids and the adults who think as children

but

the more this sinks in the more i want to rub some of the ballwashing apoligists faces in this pile of s***

[Paradisecity]

man where do you think Star and US Weekly gets their sources from? people with dream jobs of working with celebrities

 

 

I would say that professional sports run slightly tighter ships than Paris Hilton's "close" group of friends or Kevin Federline's "entourage" wouldn't you?

 

I'm pretty sure the Red Sox clubhouse attendants aren't out blowing coke at 4am at "Rain" with Manny Ramirez while Curt Schilling's wife is running around downtown Tampa with a 2 inch skirt and no underwear.

 

But that could just be me.

[26 to 6]

hhm gets it

hes as open minded as any yank fan i spoke with today

 

anyone hear from suzy waldman??

think shes drunk in some bed stuy ghetto getting tag teamed by 2 crack heads with 16 inch ivory pierced cocks and a case of muscatelle??

bwahahahaha

 

the more this sinks in the more i feel for the kids and the adults who think as children

but

the more this sinks in the more i want to rub some of the ballwashing apoligists faces in this pile of s***

I doubt the crackheads would even touch that woman.

[He Hate Me]

hhm gets it

hes as open minded as any yank fan i spoke with today

 

well not that open minded ...I'm still digesting Andy's name being in there when you consider the denials he's made in the past (wait were they specific denials of drug use? or denials of positive tests a la Clemens yesterday?). This guy embodies every single good trait that I thought a professional athelete should have when I first started watching sports over 20 years ago.

 

I'm going to say this and I hope you guys don't laugh, but hearing Andy's name in this report is about as devastating as when I found ou that pro wrestling was fake

[Paradisecity]

oh man i didn't even think of Suzyn Waldman and her gushing man crush on Roger Clemens.

 

I'm sure she'll come out and publicly say it can't be true.

 

After all if anybody in the yankees organization would know about taking human growth hormones to muscle up and be more of a man itd be that raging bitch.

[He Hate Me]

I would say that professional sports run slightly tighter ships than Paris Hilton's "close" group of friends or Kevin Federline's "entourage" wouldn't you?

 

I'm pretty sure the Red Sox clubhouse attendants aren't out blowing coke at 4am at "Rain" with Manny Ramirez while Curt Schilling's wife is running around downtown Tampa with a 2 inch skirt and no underwear.

 

But that could just be me.

 

hemm true

 

still though, with all those minor league teams, I'ms ure there would have been a few employees who were either unhappy or perhaps disgusted at the behavior of some professional atheletes.

[Paradisecity]

I think my new nickname for Suzyn Waldman will be TCOAW (pronounced taco), standing for Throbbing Cock Of A Woman, because thats exactly what she is: a gigantic, veiny throbbing cock of a woman who's wasting the oxygen that our dwindling rainforests provide.

[BudLight]

I would say that professional sports run slightly tighter ships than Paris Hilton's "close" group of friends or Kevin Federline's "entourage" wouldn't you?

 

I'm pretty sure the Red Sox clubhouse attendants aren't out blowing coke at 4am at "Rain" with Manny Ramirez while Curt Schilling's wife is running around downtown Tampa with a 2 inch skirt and no underwear.

 

But that could just be me.

 

 

Just when things were starting to make sense in all of this you go and start the confusion all over again. So what you are saying is:

 

Curt Schilling's wife was giving Manny Ramirez a blowjob in a rainstorm at 4 a.m. somewhere in Tampa while he drank coke from her underwear.??

[Paradisecity]

I'm sure Shonda doesn't give blowjobs because it would mess up the thirteen pounds of makeup she applies every morning, not to mention that the high protein residue being emitted would no doubt work as an enhancer for the tan she desperately wants to avoid.

 

She compensates by taking it in the ass.

[rician blast]

I'm of the mind that this PED issue has been around longer than typically noted, is rampant in major sports and is likely to remain a problem going forward.

 

During college I was working at a World Gym in Connecticut back in the mid-80's. Typical gym of that day, patronized by a combination of meatheads, HS athletes, professionals, blue collar workers, older folks, etc.

 

I was there maybe 3 months and had gotten to know just about everyone in the place. I can still remember the first time I was approached by two meatheads asking if I could get them some "s***," as they used to call it. No, I have no clue, I said. In a casual conversation with one of my co-workers I mentioned this and learned that this was far from unusual..that he would get asked constantly.

 

Well, as time went on and members got more and more comfortable with my buddy and I, the requests came more frequently. So as not to implicate myself, let's just say that I heard that my co-worker could not resist the urge to delve into what looked to be a relatively lucrative side job of dealing juice to the gym's patrons.

 

He found that he could fairly easily get winstrol, deca durabolin, anavar, testosterone, dianabol, a few other drugs and this injectable gonadatropin stuff that was supposed to bring your nuts back to life post-cycle. And so he acquired thousands of dollars of drugs and sold them at a premium.

 

His customers?

High school football players and wrestlers.

20-something softball players.

Professionals.

Construction guys.

55 year old men trying to retain 30 yr old bodies.

A couple of professional wrestlers, from time to time.

Women, too.

 

From there, you could watch the users grow, month-to-month, even week to week. The results were f***ing amazing.

 

By this guys estimation he was making an extra grand a week selling stuff in a 5000 member gym. This was around 1985. In a run-of-the mill gym in bumf*** Connecticut, an Average Joe was clearing $50k in a fairly small scale operation that sold 'roids to average people.

 

Flash forward to now, or say the last 10 years. HR records being destroyed, pitchers pitching well later in their careers, longevity increasing, the size of players dramatically increased over players of 10-20 years prior, guys hitting balls 400 feet to the opposite field with practically a one-handed swing.

 

If in 1985, average folks and HS athletes saw the "benefits" of PEDs...and their suppliers went largely undetected...it is very easy to understand how (1) the majority of players might be drawn to PED use and (2) suppliers are available in a network that is inconspicuous due to the potential $ to be made. The Mitchell Report, IMO, is the tip of the iceberg and does not do justice to the extent of PED use...not only in terms of % of players using, but in terms of how long this problem has existed.

 

Based on the prevalence of drug use that I observed in gyms in the mid 1980's I have to believe that PED use in the major sports preceded that. The notion that this became a factor in baseball only around 2000 is silly. While it likely began to peak in the late-90's, I think it was a consistently growing issue that began at least 15 years prior.

 

Are we to believe that the problem is under control now? Drug testing has netted some players...so perhaps the users will subside? Not a chance. Pro athletes are comeptetive and egotistical...plus there are millions to be made based upon their performance...and they've simply switched to undetectable substances, primarily HGH. When the chemists identify a test for HGH and that test is employed by MLB, other chemists will introduce another undetectable drug and their will be suppliers willing to supply players.

 

Meanwhile, occasionally someone in the know will talk and names will be revealed, or investigations will be conducted that reveal a paper trail that ties a player to PED use. And subsequently the user will deny the allegations, call his accuser(s) liars, etc. The problem has been around longer than anyone wants to admit, is much worse than this report illsutrates and isn't going away...possibly ever.

[TheKilo]

I understand that a lot of Yankee fans are hurt by yesterday's reports. Let me preface this post by saying that I do not feel that the Mitchell Report is information aimed at pointing at those who have done steroids or HGH and to persecute them in a formal, legal sense. While I do feel the names on the list are accurate, I do not envision any substantial punishments for any of those involved. The place where these people will be hurt is in the court of public opinion, but then again there have always been rumblings about certain players' potential steroid use (specifically with Clemens and Tejada). It is unfortunate that many of these athletes have been put in this position, but then again part of me says they put themselves in this position.

 

The argument I really cannot stand one iota is the claim of any potential bias on the part of George Mitchell. Were his ties to the Red Sox questionable? Absolutely. In my opinion, his hiring was not the mistake, the fact that Bud did not order the ties between the Sox and Mitchell to be severed were. Was there the potential for conflict of interest? Absolutely.

 

My questions to all those who think Mitchell protected the Sox (HHM in particular):

 

1. You claim there isn't enough evidence in this report to convict people. Thing is, it is awfully difficult to try to get current players to talk about their own brotherhood in such a manner that people could be incriminated. He didn't have the authority to make them talk. Knowing this, where should he have gotten his information from?

 

2. If someone were to undertake this investigation again, what qualities would you look for in the person leading it? What characteristics would you want the person in charge to have? I can tell you right now, most of the characteristics you'd name are what George Mitchell offers. ORS said it earlier in the thread, but it's a shame that Yankee fans insist on dragging Mitchell's name through the mud for the sake of the rivalry. Like the man said at the end of his PC yesterday, judge him by his work, and not by anything else.

 

3. HHM, you said you wanted to know where he got his information from:

 

You know what would make me happy? If he revealed just what kinds of inquiries he made and to whom, fruitless or not. I think there should at least some level of transparency on that one.

 

Did you read the report? It's incredibly well-detailed and very thorough. I feel with the resistance he met from all the players involved (save Giambi) and the player's union, he did a damn good job with this report.

 

Look, I can understand the hurt many Yankee fans must be feeling today. It's a rough day after a rough end to the season. No excuse to drag Senator Mitchell through the mud over it.

 

I mean, LOL @ Andy PEDitte.

[26 to 6]

One of the papers compiled a NY list much better than any of us have been able to do so far...The year in parenthesis is when they played with the club, not when they used steroids.

 

Yankees

Ricky Bones (1996)

Kevin Brown (2004-2005)

Jose Canseco (2000)

Roger Clemens (1999-2003, 2007)

Bobby Estalella (2001)

Jason Giambi (2002-present)

Jason Grimsley (1999-2000)

Glenallen Hill (2000)

Darren Holmes (1998)

David Justice (2000-2001)

Chuck Knoblauch (1998-2001)

Josias Manzanillo (1995)

Hal Morris (1988-1989)

Dan Naulty (1999)

Denny Neagle (2000)

Andy Pettitte (1995-2003, 2007-present)

Gary Sheffield (2004-2006)

Mike Stanton (1997-2002, 2005)

Randy Velarde (1987-1995, 2001)

Ron Villone (2006-2007)

Todd Williams (2001)

Rondell White (2002)

 

Mets

Gary Bennett (2001)

Paul Byrd (1995-1996)

Mark Carreon (1987-1991)

Chris Donnels (1991-1992)

Lenny Dykstra (1985-1989)

Matt Franco (1996-2000)

Todd Hundley (1990-1998)

Paul Lo Duca (2006-2007)

Josias Manzanillo (1993-1995, 1998)

Gary Matthews Jr. (2002)

Todd Pratt (1997-2001; was in camp with the Yankees in 2007)

Scott Schoeneweis (2007)

David Segui (1994-1995)

Mike Stanton (2003-2004)

Mo Vaughn (2002-2003)

Fernando Vina (1994)

 

 

..just in case anyone was interested.

[ORS]

Another thing that has gone unmentioned in the selection of Mitchell is that you need to ask the question, why did baseball conduct the investigation in the first place? Any answer of public sentiment or "right thing" to do is wrong, IMO. They don't want Congress snooping around in their business. So, what better way to appease Congress than to enlist one of their own? They were seeking a degree of Congressional confidence in this investigation, so Selig tapped his friend Mitchell on the shoulder for the job.

[Fried Neckbones]

I agree with Kilo, especially about the lack of punishment part. Mitchell himeslf said in his press conference that 1. you have to apply the rules of the game at the time of the infraction and most PEDs weren't illegal when the players named were using them and 2. there is no point to going back and slapping players for things they did years ago. His report was, in his own words, designed to be prospective rather than retrospective. What it is going to do for the future of the sport I have no idea. The current testing program is locked into place until what, 2011? At which point they have to come back to the player's union and renegotiate a new policy. The report was interesting, yes, but IMO mostly from a curiosity standpoint. Mitchell did his job, and I think did it well under the circumstances. But with no powers to gather information other than saying "pretty please" and no authority to direct new policy I don't know what, if anything, will come of this report.

[TheKilo]

Another thing that has gone unmentioned in the selection of Mitchell is that you need to ask the question' date=' why did baseball conduct the investigation in the first place? Any answer of public sentiment or "right thing" to do is wrong, IMO. They don't want Congress snooping around in their business. So, what better way to appease Congress than to enlist one of their own? They were seeking a degree of Congressional confidence in this investigation, so Selig tapped his friend Mitchell on the shoulder for the job.[/quote']

 

I agree 100%. MLB should have let Congress do its job.

 

Then again, people named in the report have already been asked to testify early next week.

[MANNYHOF24]

Is anybody eles happy now that Eric Gange sucked down the stretch, and did not play an important role in the World Series? I am.

[Mr Crunchy]

She compensates by taking it in the ass.

 

ha

you know arab and greek women too eh??

[Mr Crunchy]

george mitchell didnt get any s*** as a catholic irishman dealing with the f***ing prodestants of northern ireland...they took his word as gospel

if they can handle what he said then it behooves me as to why yankee fans wouldnt.

 

based on this mans reputation on both sides of the coast and congressional aisles george mitchell isnt a man who's integrity is for sale.

the fact that he comes from a place where sisters are generally the brothers 1st romp in the sack and where girls dont wear skirts they wear flannel shirts and where the brother you had may be your dad.....in maine.....isnt a reason to doubt his findings.

ahem

 

his reputation is beyond repute even if theres a conflict of interest with his position with the sox(whatever that title is)

[BSN07]

Canseco on Mitchell report: Where's A-Rod?

FOXSports.com

Posted: 1 hour ago

Jose Canseco couldn't get into the Mitchell Report press conference, but he was making the rounds on TV afterward. And his biggest point of contention? "All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete ... I could not believe that (A-Rod's) name was not in the report."

 

Take it for what you will, but the guy deserves a little credit. He's been spot on, even if he's selling everyone out and trying to be in the spotlight.

[BudLight]

Canseco on Mitchell report: Where's A-Rod?

FOXSports.com

Posted: 1 hour ago

Jose Canseco couldn't get into the Mitchell Report press conference, but he was making the rounds on TV afterward. And his biggest point of contention? "All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete ... I could not believe that (A-Rod's) name was not in the report."

 

Take it for what you will, but the guy deserves a little credit. He's been spot on, even if he's selling everyone out and trying to be in the spotlight.

 

A few folks have been taking an ass beating around here today because they stated how they are a bit miffed that no current Red Sox players are on the "list" and they question the integrity of George Mitchell. How do the statements above differ from those who have been beaten here today? Jose Canseco - integrity - please, the guy is a loser, always has been and would sell his only child to a group of known pedophiles if he thought it would get him 5 minutes of air time. Please don't try and group Jose Canseco and George Mitchell when it comes to releasing names of junk users.

[das11209]

Is anybody eles happy now that Eric Gange sucked down the stretch' date=' and did not play an important role in the World Series? I am.[/quote']

 

Absolutely. Gagne forgot to pack his special package while moving from Texas to Boston - how could he perform?