Yanks Want to Talk to Lowell

[TheKilo]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7446926

 

Another indication that the Yankees haven't ruled out Rodriguez: They are talking to free agent Mike Lowell not just about replacing Rodriguez at third base, but also about playing first, major-league sources tell Rosenthal.

 

Lowell, 33, has been unable to reach an agreement with the Red Sox, who offered him a three-year deal believed to be in the range of $38 million to $40 million. After Lowell became a free agent, a source said the Yankees were "all over" Lowell. The Red Sox would lose two options at third if the Yankees signed Lowell to play first and kept Rodriguez, perhaps leading them to increase their pursuit of the Marlins' Miguel Cabrera in a trade.

[redsoxrules]

Oh s*** , that would really suck if the yanks got them both

[TheKilo]

IMO the Yankees strategy is clear as day.

 

Throw tons of money at their vets and/or players who can fill positions of need (Posada, ARod, Rivera, Lowell).

 

Go hard after Santana with some of their pitching prospects.

 

The balance of power in the ALE tips in favor of the Yankees if that happens. Although if they spend over $40 mil for four years of Lowell at first, more power to them.

 

I can really see, if these come to fruition, a Cano/Tabata/Kennedy/Cabrera type deal for Santana. Move Jeter to 2nd, play ARod at short.

[26 to 6]

I can really see, if these come to fruition, a Cano/Tabata/Kennedy/Cabrera type deal for Santana. Move Jeter to 2nd, play ARod at short.

I dont see any of that. Well I can see the deal for Santana looking like that, except I think the Yankees would be somewhat reluctant to include Cano in that. But I definately don't see Jeter moving to second and and A-Rod playing short. For what, so Mike Lowell can play 3rd? Why not just play him at first and go out and get a second baseman for the time being. (Idk, maybe a Kaz Matsui, who Cashman loved, for instance.)

[yankees228]

I dont see any of that. Well I can see the deal for Santana looking like that' date=' except I think the Yankees would be somewhat reluctant to include Cano in that. But I definately don't see Jeter moving to second and and A-Rod playing short. For what, so Mike Lowell can play 3rd? Why not just play him at first and go out and get a second baseman for the time being. (Idk, maybe a Kaz Matsui, who Cashman loved, for instance.)[/quote']

 

I don't see the Twins trading Santana to the Yankees if Robinson Cano is not included.

 

Also, Kilo, about the deal you posted for Santana, I don't think that works either. I can't see the Twins dealing Santana to the Yankees without getting either Chamberlain or Hughes in return. Something like Hughes and Cano for Santana (assuming he signs an extention with the Yankees, his agent is not Scott Boras by the way), is more likely in my opinion.

 

As for moving Jeter, I have a feeling it's going to happen before his contract runs out anyways, especially now that A-Rod is staying. Over the last two years Jeter has clearly regressed defensively to the point that he is not even average anymore, and a move to first base should be considered for the future.

[26 to 6]

I don't see the Twins trading Santana to the Yankees if Robinson Cano is not included.

 

Also, Kilo, about the deal you posted for Santana, I don't think that works either. I can't see the Twins dealing Santana to the Yankees without getting either Chamberlain or Hughes in return. Something like Hughes and Cano for Santana (assuming he signs an extention with the Yankees, his agent is not Scott Boras by the way), is more likely in my opinion.

 

As for moving Jeter, I have a feeling it's going to happen before his contract runs out anyways, especially now that A-Rod is staying. Over the last two years Jeter has clearly regressed defensively to the point that he is not even average anymore, and a move to first base should be considered for the future.

I understand everything you're saying, and agree to an extent. But I dont think Jeter could play even a decent 1B.

As for the Santana deal, I agree. It would certainly take a LOT. But I would be opposed to a deal involving Hughes, Chamberlain, or Cano. And I think some of the people in the Yankee organization would feel the same way.

[TheKilo]

I was being generous with that offer. Honestly, if you can get Santana without dealing Joba or Hughes you do it and don't look back.

[yankees228]

I was being generous with that offer. Honestly' date=' if you can get Santana without dealing Joba or Hughes you do it and don't look back.[/quote']

 

Absolutely, I just don't think that the Twins can deal Santana to the Yankees, and look their face their fan base if they don't come away with either Joba or Hughes. I would love for it to happen, but I'm just trying to be realistic.

[ORS]

Over the last two years Jeter has clearly regressed defensively to the point that he is not even average anymore...

Never really was. He's always been bad, but his bat has always been well above average, and still is now.

[yankees228]

I understand everything you're saying, and agree to an extent. But I dont think Jeter could play even a decent 1B.

As for the Santana deal, I agree. It would certainly take a LOT. But I would be opposed to a deal involving Hughes, Chamberlain, or Cano. And I think some of the people in the Yankee organization would feel the same way.

 

Jeter:

I have no idea about what he would be like as a first basemen, so lets look at what we do know. When compared to the other starting shortstops in baseball, he's near the bottom. He's also not the best shortstop on his own team. It is also more important to have terrific defense at shortstop as opposed to terrific defense at first base. Because of all those factors, I think they would be better off if he changed positions. I'm not saying it's going to happen in 2008, but before his Jeter's contract runs out (2010), I would not be surprised if he wasn't playing shortstop at some point.

 

Santana:

I completely understand you not wanting to part with any of those three, and as you said, I think a lot of people (including some in the Yankee's organization) would agree with you. However, if you want Santana, I firmly believe you're going to have to give up one, and probably two of those guys. After what Chamberlain did last year, I don't think you can trade him, so that leaves you with Hughes and Cano. It's going to be difficult to sell a lot of people on this trade (including you apparently), so at this point I'm not going to even bother with that. What I will say is this...they've been eliminated from the postseason the past seven years, the majority of those years in ugly fashion. They're clearly missing something, and in my opinion that's a bonafide ace. Phil Hughes could very well develop into that, but we really don't know. With Santana we do, and if the Yankees can lock him up to an extension then they're doing much more than just replacing Phil Hughes.

 

As for Cano, that would be a huge loss, I'm not going to lie, so I think you need to look more at the gain rather than the loss. Cano is not going to be easily replaced, but you can to a lesser extent make up for his absence.

[yankees228]

Never really was. He's always been bad' date=' but his bat has always been well above average, and still is now.[/quote']

 

That's true, but his glove was certainly better than it's been. He was able to get to more balls up the middle, and had a little bit stronger arm. Now it's to the point that it gets really frustrating to watch him play defense on an everyday basis, especially since I believe they have better in house options.

 

My initial point was that a position move for Jeter would benefit the Yankees, and whether he's always been a poor defender or not doesn't really change what I said.

[ORS]

My initial point was that a position move for Jeter would benefit the Yankees' date=' and whether he's always been a poor defender or not doesn't really change what I said.[/quote']

And I didn't disagree, so that's why I only quoted the part relevant to my response. This is a pet peeve of mine, so don't take this personally, but I don't like it when people are defensive about their larger point when some takes exception to a smaller point leading up to it. An analogous situation would be the following paragraph.

 

I really think the US should try and shift to alternate energy sources in order to reduce its dependence on foreign. As everyone knows, oil is the Earth God's nectar, and the longer we steal from his supply, the more we will anger him. The results will be catastrophic when he gets back at us.

 

I agree with the larger point - shifting to alternative energy - but not how you got there. Now, that is obviously hyperbole as an example, but I think it makes the point. If you are going to say it, even as part of a larger point, then you should be willing to defend it (and not with the larger point).

[yankees228]

And I didn't disagree, so that's why I only quoted the part relevant to my response. This is a pet peeve of mine, so don't take this personally, but I don't like it when people are defensive about their larger point when some takes exception to a smaller point leading up to it. An analogous situation would be the following paragraph.

 

I really think the US should try and shift to alternate energy sources in order to reduce its dependence on foreign. As everyone knows, oil is the Earth God's nectar, and the longer we steal from his supply, the more we will anger him. The results will be catastrophic when he gets back at us.

 

I agree with the larger point - shifting to alternative energy - but not how you got there. Now, that is obviously hyperbole as an example, but I think it makes the point. If you are going to say it, even as part of a larger point, then you should be willing to defend it (and not with the larger point).

 

Ok, I gotcha.

 

Then back to your original point, do you really think Jeter was always this bad defensively. In the past, I think he was servicable there, to the point where it didn't hurt the team, but that has changed over the past couple seasons. It's to the point where his defense is costing them much more than it used to, and I think a change is in order now, more than it was in the past.

[ORS]

I think he was below average in RF, ZR, FRAA, and UZR for every year leading up to the Yankees playing a better SS at 3B. Then, with a player with much better range on his right, he approximated average for a couple of years, and now he's back below average.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

So the Yankees want to sign Mike Lowell to play 1st base? I'm fine with that. We will gladly take your 1st round pick and find a more than capable 3rd baseman to take up the spot.

 

Not to mention can you think of a worse situation for Mike Lowell? Yankee stadium and changing positions at the age of 34? Thats the most rediculous thing I've ever heard and I would be just fine with it.

[das11209]

So the Yankees want to sign Mike Lowell to play 1st base? I'm fine with that. We will gladly take your 1st round pick and find a more than capable 3rd baseman to take up the spot.

 

Not to mention can you think of a worse situation for Mike Lowell? Yankee stadium and changing positions at the age of 34? Thats the most rediculous thing I've ever heard and I would be just fine with it.

 

You don't think Lowell is an upgrade over Mienkiewitch? Their all-star line-up only gets better.

[yankees228]

You don't think Lowell is an upgrade over Mienkiewitch? Their all-star line-up only gets better.

 

It an upgrade, but as SITN pointed out, there are a lot of problems with him, especially when it comes to leaving the Red Sox and Fenway Park.

 

EDIT: He's also a type A free agent.

[das11209]

It an upgrade, but as SITN pointed out, there are a lot of problems with him, especially when it comes to leaving the Red Sox and Fenway Park.

 

EDIT: He's also a type A free agent.

 

I perfectly understand that Lowell is not the same without the green monster. I still think that he will add much more value than Philippe or Dougie. So - there is no weak spot in the Yankee line-up at all( oops I almost forgot Jeter).

[26 to 6]

I honestly don't want Lowell, but wouldnt be outraged or disappointed in the least if we got him. It's not worth the pick and probably the money, but if they do it he's a very good player who i'm sure will contribute just fine. As for the Santana trade, I absolutely agree that you can't get Santana without giving up those top young guys. That being said, we've waited a long, LONG time for the Yankees to develop a perrenial ace, and Phil Hughes could very well be that in a few years. That being said, combined with what Joba showed us this past season, and the offensive umbers that Cano has put up, and will put up in the future, i'm not sure trading 2 of those guys plus possibly a combination of other lesser prospects is the best thing to do. Dont get me wrong, Santana is the best pitcher in baseball (A healthy Roy Halladay gives him a run for his money though, IMO) and I would obviously love to have him. If the Yanks got him, that would be great! I would just prefer to hang onto what we have developed ourselves. For the past 5-6 years the Yankees have been criticized and ridiculed for the inability to hang onto their homegrown talent, opting instead to ship it all away. Not since the late 90's, coming into the 2000's when we had what was considered at one time the best farm system in baseball has our player development been respected, respectable, commended, or commendable.

Note: Granted, all those prospects that we had when we were ranked #1 i.e. Knight, Choate, Seabol, Yarnell, Johnson, etc. failed to turn out as expected, whether it be because of injury, prolonged promotions, trades, etc. they were still considered the cream of the crop at one point.

 

Back to my point, which I seem to have diverted from. Now that we have potential big-time players coming out of our own ranks, drafted by OUR scouts and PD personell I say we hang onto them. If it means passing on a Santana, or a Cabrera then so be it. If the opportunity presented itself for a deal in which we could get Santana with as little damage to our young core as possible, then I say go for it. But that's not likely to happen. Just as I think it's not likely Lowell will end up in pinstripes.

[jacksonianmarch]

I feel the same way. Lowell is a solid presence in the clubhouse and could be a nice addition to the team. That being said, I have no belief that he'll repeat his production from this season in yankee stadium or anywhere else. And if we get him and put him at 1b, we may be looking to replace him halfway through the deal. It would be another short sighted signing.

[yankees228]

Rotoworld just posted that according to CBS4 in Boston, the Yankees are offering Mike Lowell a four year contract between 56-60 million dollars. If this is true, I have a hard time believing that he is going to get that kind of money and number of years anywhere else. If this is indeed just between the Red Sox and Yankees, it would come down to how much Lowell really enjoys playing for the Red Sox and if he would be OK with switching to first base. The Yankees clearly have the Red Sox beat with their offer, so the other things would have to outweigh the money for Lowell to stay in Boston.

[yankees228]

26-6, lets assume for a second that the Yankees do indeed re-sign A-Rod.

 

After we make that assumptions, I would just like to know why you are against trading Hughes and Cano for Santana (assuming we sign him to an extension)? Lets just focus on Hughes and Cano and not on the farm system as a whole.

[rician blast]

And if we get him and put him at 1b' date=' we may be looking to replace him halfway through the deal. It would be another short sighted signing.[/quote']

 

You've hit on the main difference between the Sox and Yanks organizations in a nutshell.

 

Thanks.

[a700hitter]

The yankees need starting pitching and they need to get younger. I am not talking about putting into the rotation 3 kids with the combined ML starting experience of less than 1/2 year. Re-signing ARod until age 42 for more than a quarter of a billion dollars, Posada until age 41, and Lowell for 4 years to age 38 does not help the Yankees accomplish either of their needs.

[VA Sox Fan]

Don't sell your soul Mikey....1st base? Puhlease!

[Jayhawk Bill]

Mike Lowell at first base? Who's better at third, Mikey or A-Rod? Let's check BP FRAA for the years that both of them have played third base, to discount Lowell's excellence in his youth while A-Rod was at shortstop.

 

A-Rod

 

2004 2

2005 -4

2006 -18

2007 2

 

Mikey

 

2004 12

2005 16

2006 20

2007 14

 

A-Rod is at -18, or -4.5 per year. Mikey is at 62, or +15.5 per year. Playing A-Rod instead of Mikey at third base costs the Yankees roughly two wins a year, assuming equivalent performance from the two elsewhere.

[redsoxrules]

Interesting post JHB.... I was thinking the same thing , if the yanks get lowell he would be better off at 3rd base and Arod at first ( but of corse that would probly not happen ) . lowell is a way better defender than Arod . IMO it would be a waste if the yanks pay 60 mil for 4 years for lowell to play at first base

[VA Sox Fan]

Interesting post JHB.... I was thinking the same thing ' date=' if the yanks get lowell he would be better off at 3rd base and Arod at first ( but of corse that would probly not happen ) . lowell is a way better defender than Arod . IMO it would be a waste if the yanks pay 60 mil for 4 years for lowell to play at first base[/quote']

 

Always a great job by JHB, seriously!

 

But redsoxrules also wants Barry Bonds for a year, for what? The extra-negative press in Boston? Our new DH (to replace our perfectly good DH) or to replace Drew or Manny in the OF?

[yankees228]

Interesting post JHB.... I was thinking the same thing ' date=' if the yanks get lowell he would be better off at 3rd base and Arod at first ( but of corse that would probly not happen ) . lowell is a way better defender than Arod . IMO it would be a waste if the yanks pay 60 mil for 4 years for lowell to play at first base[/quote']

 

In my opinion, if they get Lowell, they should play him at third, A-Rod at short, and Jeter at first.

[a700hitter]

In my opinion' date=' if they get Lowell, they should play him at third, A-Rod at short, and Jeter at first.[/quote']It would be the right move, but who will break the News to the old diva at SS.