Official 07 offseason thread

[redsoxrules]

We won the WS without Bonds and Arod. We don't need them to win a championship.

 

I don't like Arod personally, he is a great player, but I don't want $30 million locked up in him. And I think Lowell is the better fit for this team. He has shown us that he can hit and he is still gold glove defense.

 

And as to Bonds, why the hell would you have Ortiz at first? He is a DH, leave that alone. Youk is a gold glove first baseman and is a good hitter. He works the count and gets on base. And he had an amazing October. Why "fix" it if it ain't broken?...

 

this response dosent surprise me , especially from the guy who says it was a joke that ortiz was the starting first baseman in the all star

[Cocos Disciples]

We won the WS without Bonds and Arod. We don't need them to win a championship.

 

That mentality kills teams. Every year you have to make changes. Players will decline, players with progress. Things CHANGE every year. Just because you won the WS with one team doesn't mean you can go into the next year with the exact same team. Look at the White Sox. They made very little changes after their 2005 year (except Thome), and just 2 years after they finished behind the Royals. You gotta make the changes to keep up.

[jacksonianmarch]

lol, you said you'd win the WS with ARod.

[Cocos Disciples]

I wasn't talking about ARod specifically, just changes generally.

[Soxfan1]

Who cares who you like? This isn't a Bonds-A-Rod lovefest. For all I care they can sign them and put their lockers next to each other so they can scream at eachother.

[TheKilo]

Why "fix" it if it ain't broken?...

 

Because it is the FO's responsibility to field the best team possible.

[TedWilliams101]

I'm fine with upgrades, just not Arod and Bonds. Bonds is too old and with all the steriods stuff, just stay away.

 

Arod is a great player, yes, but also $30 million. I would MUCH rather have Lowell for cheaper and invest the rest in other areas. Of course Lowell isn't as good a player as Arod, but he is a great teammate and he did just win a WS MVP. How many WS MVP's does Arod have? (I know thats a bit unfair, but...)

 

I just think our team is really good right now. If we can get upgrades, great. But not if it means parting with a lot of our young pitching prospects (Buchholz, Lester, MDC, etc)

[ORS]

I get the feeling TW101 is one of those impossible to please people. Goldilocks for baseball.

 

"You can make 'em better, but not with the best". Assinine.

[BSN07]

The Yankees have already proven you can't win it all with " Names " at every position. No thanks to Arod, go out West.

 

As far a Bonds, are you severally mentally challenged? Do you follow the Red Sox and pay attention to there moves at all? There not going to play papi at 1B for 140+ games a season so that Bonds can be the DH. there infield D would be horrid, Youks decent at 3B but he would not be as good as he was at 1B and losing Lowell just makes your D worse anyway.

 

 

Some of you fans on here are starting to act like Yanks fans about 6, 7 yrs ago, you started to get rid of the small guys that contributed to WS championships and replaced them with over priced All Stars.

 

If your playing Baseball on the PS3 then having Bonds on your team makes sense. But this is big boy baseball and stacking a line up and spending money on over priced, over the hill players doesn't pan out. The Sox mix of Vets, Stars, and Youngins is good.

 

Lowell should be top priority, if they offer him 3 yrs at a decent rate he will come back. That means the infield and out field is set. Add in a bench player or two and Pitchers and your team is good for the beginning of 2008. Trades can always be made before July. I don't see the Sox in on any big FA, maybe a big trade if the price is right, kind of like Schilling or Becketts trade, kind of came out of nowhere over Thanksgiving.

 

 

CF-Ellsbury

2B- Pedroia

DH-Papi

LF-Manny

3B-Lowell

RF-Drew

1B-Youk

C-Tek

SS-Lugo

 

1.Beckett

2.Dice-K

3.Lester

4.Wake

5. FA signing, trade, fill in until mid season then Buccholz

 

Paps,Oki,Delcarmen make up the back end of the BP, I would imagine the typical throw s*** against the wall and see what sticks method will be used for the rest of the BP

[CrespoBlows]

I think Gwynn Jr can bring what Crisp does for less money though.

 

As bad as Coco is with the bat, he still has an edge on Tony's son.

 

OPS'

 

Minors - .694

Majors - .622

 

SSS Alert, but Gwynn had a -7 FRAA in 30 something games. Crisp would be a pretty substantial upgrade, looking closer.

 

I don't think that will alone net us an ace pitcher, but given all the variables, it could be pretty close.

[CrespoBlows]

Absolutely, positively, HELL NO.

 

Papi at first? f*** off, keep him as the DH.

 

OK, you do that. I'll upgrade the roster.

 

Bonds EqA - .353

Youkilis EqA - .283

 

Youkilis goatee which makes Okajima smile - 4.5 WARP

 

Arod at 3rd? f*** off, resign Lowell. We don't need a $30 million cancer.

 

Rodriguez EqA - .340

Lowell EqA - .288

 

Wins created due to the fact that Papelbon is happy, because Mike Lowell reminds him of George Clooney - 5

 

 

Haren? As many have said he is not available.

 

And a few posts up, I squashed the potential deal.

 

Bonds DH, f*** off. I hate bonds, he is way too old, and way to selfish. Can you imagine both Bonds and Arod on this team? Any magic or good chemistry this team has would be gone by spring training.

 

LOL MAGIC AND CHEMISTRY AND THE UNKNOWN!!!!!

 

Seriously, this s*** is getting old. Why does everyone always assume Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez cannot get along with anyone? Didn't Ortiz, Ramirez, and Rodriguez all arrive at a Yanks/Sox game in the same car? Shouldn't we give Ortiz more credit for being a great leader? Hasn't Francona time and time again, defused potential explosive situations?

 

I think adding Bonds would be a better move than adding A-Rod. (2008 only) Bonds is going to have a chip on his shoulder, and he's going to be able to rest his legs a lot more often, by not playing the field.

 

How in the f*** can you say no to adding a potential .280/.520/.600/1.120 bat to the lineup? Oh, he's only going to be a one year investment, for pretty cheap considering his play. If he's too much of a dick, we can get rid of him, because the investment is not that large. Anyway, back to the point, do you know how many runs this team would score? Thumper, you could fill the fifth starter spot, and you'd probably have 15 wins, by the end of the year.

 

Does everyone believe winning breeds chemistry? This team would be so good, that it would clinch a playoff spot in July.

[ORS]

Now that you mention it, I didn't realize how good Crisp's year was until I just looked at it. A 6 WARP season with only 11.9 VORP. That's about 5 defensive wins. Amazing.

 

Yeah, it might be worth a try.

[CrespoBlows]

nah i dont like it. i live in milwaukee' date=' and sheets isnt as desirable as many think he is. [/quote']

 

Hopefully, this is true. We can get him for less, this way.

 

i could be wrong on this, but i believe many of his peripherals went down, as well as strikeouts (i know this for sure).

 

I think he was still injured when he came back during the second half.

 

Plus, he would have a first AL east shellfest a la Josh Beckett because he is basically a 2 pitch pitcher,

 

Huh?

 

Have you seen Ben Sheets throw a curveball? Or his changeup for the matter?

 

 

and with stuff that isnt as good as becketts

 

Sheets knows how to pitch, Beckett did not. Besides, how many people can say they have as good as stuff as Josh Beckett? Two or three pitchers? Kind of unfair.

 

(not even close with the fastball).

 

Sheets can dial it up to 97 mph. He's close.

 

o and not to mention the annual 5 trips to the DL...sorry if i sound bitter, sheets kind of screwed the crew this year

 

They said the same thing about Beckett before he came to Boston. With a organization that understands what PAP points are, I think Sheets can come to the Red Sox, and stand a better chance of staying healthy.

 

The Brewers had Sheets throw a complete game, 130 pitch effort, in a meaningless September game in 2004.

 

BB/K ratio (career) - 3.93

(2004 - 2007) - 5.97

 

I think he's worth the gamble.

[TheKilo]

The Yankees have already proven you can't win it all with " Names " at every position. No thanks to Arod, go out West.

 

As far a Bonds, are you severally mentally challenged? Do you follow the Red Sox and pay attention to there moves at all? There not going to play papi at 1B for 140+ games a season so that Bonds can be the DH. there infield D would be horrid, Youks decent at 3B but he would not be as good as he was at 1B and losing Lowell just makes your D worse anyway.

 

Ortiz is actually very underrated with his glove. His range isn't great, but he's got soft hands. It's not as ridiculous as people here are making it out to be. I just don't think it's very realistic.

 

I would not be opposed at all to adding Bonds's bat to this lineup, especially for a one year commitment. ARod is a different story because it's such a long contract.

 

Some of you fans on here are starting to act like Yanks fans about 6, 7 yrs ago, you started to get rid of the small guys that contributed to WS championships and replaced them with over priced All Stars.

 

What?

 

If your playing Baseball on the PS3 then having Bonds on your team makes sense. But this is big boy baseball and stacking a line up and spending money on over priced, over the hill players doesn't pan out. The Sox mix of Vets, Stars, and Youngins is good.

 

What?

 

Lowell should be top priority, if they offer him 3 yrs at a decent rate he will come back. That means the infield and out field is set. Add in a bench player or two and Pitchers and your team is good for the beginning of 2008. Trades can always be made before July. I don't see the Sox in on any big FA, maybe a big trade if the price is right, kind of like Schilling or Becketts trade, kind of came out of nowhere over Thanksgiving.

 

What happens if Lowell gets 5 years guaranteed on the FA market? Are you willing to bring him back then?

[BSN07]

5 yrs you have to let him walk, nd look for a 1B or 3B, with Youk playing 1 or the other.

 

Papi isn't great at 1B, the D doesn't worry me as much as health issues would.

 

 

 

I don't think Bonds will ever play in Boston. I think he comes here only if there is no other offers. Bonds and the Boston media could be a major distraction.

 

You can want him here or not, but the odds of him coming to Boston are slim and none.

[TheKilo]

5 yrs you have to let him walk, nd look for a 1B or 3B, with Youk playing 1 or the other.

 

Papi isn't great at 1B, the D doesn't worry me as much as health issues would.

 

 

 

I don't think Bonds will ever play in Boston. I think he comes here only if there is no other offers. Bonds and the Boston media could be a major distraction.

 

You can want him here or not, but the odds of him coming to Boston are slim and none.

 

That's all well and good but what the hell did you mean with your other points?

[TheKilo]

I think a fundamental question for the FO is to first ask how much money are they willing to spend? They spent $ 143,026,214 in 2007. Of the players who are signed through next season:

 

[table]Player|2008 Salary

M. Ramirez|$20,000,000

J. Drew|$14,000,000

D. Ortiz|$12,500,000

J. Lugo|$9,000,000

J. Varitek|$9,000,000

D. Matsuzaka|$8,000,000

J. Beckett|$9,500,000

T. Wakefield|$4,000,000

C. Crisp|$4,750,000

J. Tavarez|$3,850,000

A. Cora|$2,000,000

H. Okajima|$1,250,000

C. Hansen|$700,000[/table]

 

By my count, that's $98,550,000, assuming JT's option is picked up.

 

Then you have the people who are potential free agents:

 

[table]Player|2007 Salary

C. Schilling|$13,000,000

M. Clement|$9,500,000

M. Lowell|$9,000,000

E. Hinske|$2,800,000

M. Timlin|$2,800,000

D. Mirabelli|$750,000

K. Snyder|$500,000

B. Corey|$500,000

J. Lopez|$400,000

B. Donnelly|$1,400,000[/table]

 

You also have to factor in Eric Gagne, Bobby Kielty, and Royce Clayton.

 

All in all, we see that $41,150,000 is coming off the books as of now, not including what we pay the other three.

 

Kevin Youkilis, Javier Lopez, Kyle Snyder, and Brendan Donnelly are all arb-eligible.

 

Papelbon, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, etc. are still under the Sox's control.

[TheKilo]

The way I see it, the Sox have about $45 million to spend on Free Agency this offseason. The question then becomes what does the OD Roster look like, and where do you spend the money?

 

Opening Day Roster:

 

C - Varitek

1B - Youkilis

2B - Pedroia

SS - Lugo

3B - ???

LF - Ramirez

CF - Ellsbury

RF - Drew

 

Bench:

Backup C (?)

Cora

Crisp (?)

Moss (?)

Kielty (?)

 

Pitchers:

Beckett

Matsuzaka

Wakefield

Okajima

Papelbon

Delcarmen

Tavarez

Buchholz

Lester

Timlin (?)

Schilling (?)

Corey/Lopez/Snyder (?)

[TheKilo]

I think the Off Season can be summed up with a few questions:

 

1. Will they re-sign Schilling?

2. Will they re-sign Lowell?

3. Will they trade Crisp?

4. Who fills out the bench?

5. Do they really feel comfortable slotting both Buchholz and Lester in the rotation?

6. If they sign Lowell and Schilling, does that remove them from the ARod sweepstakes?

[CrespoBlows]

That's all well and good but what the hell did you mean with your other points?

 

He doesn't have a real reason for not wanting a .992 OBP guy in front of Rodriguez, Ortiz, and Ramirez. So, he's calling for conclusion.

 

For that matter, the Red Sox better have a damn good reason why they won't pursue him, even as a part time option. (400 AB's, rotating at DH, and LF)

[Cocos Disciples]

He doesn't have a real reason for not wanting a .992 OBP guy in front of Rodriguez, Ortiz, and Ramirez. So, he's calling for conclusion.

 

For that matter, the Red Sox better have a damn good reason why they won't pursue him, even as a part time option. (400 AB's, rotating at DH, and LF)

 

OPS?

[mar_022]

Hopefully, this is true. We can get him for less, this way.

 

 

 

I think he was still injured when he came back during the second half.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

Have you seen Ben Sheets throw a curveball? Or his changeup for the matter?

 

 

 

 

Sheets knows how to pitch, Beckett did not. Besides, how many people can say they have as good as stuff as Josh Beckett? Two or three pitchers? Kind of unfair.

 

 

 

Sheets can dial it up to 97 mph. He's close.

 

 

 

They said the same thing about Beckett before he came to Boston. With a organization that understands what PAP points are, I think Sheets can come to the Red Sox, and stand a better chance of staying healthy.

 

The Brewers had Sheets throw a complete game, 130 pitch effort, in a meaningless September game in 2004.

 

BB/K ratio (career) - 3.93

(2004 - 2007) - 5.97

 

I think he's worth the gamble.

 

Crespo, trust me, sheets rarely throws the change, in fact about as much as beckett. You are right, his curve is pretty filthy when he has it, i'll give you that. And he was really sitting at about 92 mph on the fastball all year long...once in a while he'd throw 94ish for a night when he felt good (this may be due to his shady health leading to inconsistent velocity), but more often then not this year it was down to the lower 90s. I watched more Brewer games than i did sox game this year because of my location and the fact that my internet was too slow to use mlb.tv very often, s yes i have seen him pitch. I just couldn't see him getting AL EAST hitters out very successfully next year, which is all we'd have him for (guaranteed at least).

 

Another contention you made is that he was still injured in the second half, and i would agree...the problem is that this guy (and this is just my opinion) may have some structural issues throughout his body, and will never be truly healthy again

[das11209]

Wrongly posted in the other thread - Dunn option picked up by Cincy

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3088827

[TheKilo]

He doesn't have a real reason for not wanting a .992 OBP guy in front of Rodriguez, Ortiz, and Ramirez. So, he's calling for conclusion.

 

For that matter, the Red Sox better have a damn good reason why they won't pursue him, even as a part time option. (400 AB's, rotating at DH, and LF)

 

While I don't disagree with you, I find it very hard to believe that they'll sign Bonds, ARod, and Schilling in the offseason (I believe you said you had Schilling in the '08 rotation)

[Rdsxmbnt]

How about Rich Harden? He is injury prone and would cost some prospects, but he has ace upside and there were reports he was on the trade block this past season. Keep Wake as insurance and sport a nasty young rotation of:

1. Beckett

2. Dice-K

3. Harden

4. Buchholz

5. Lester

[riverside sluggers]

Joe Blanton was also said to have been offered to the Dodgers. Package Coco with Justin Masterson and a lower level pitching prospect, not bad

[CrespoBlows]

Joe Blanton was also said to have been offered to the Dodgers. Package Coco with Justin Masterson and a lower level pitching prospect' date=' not bad[/quote']

 

Yeah, that won't get it done.

[example1]

I think a fundamental question for the FO is to first ask how much money are they willing to spend? They spent $ 143,026,214 in 2007. Of the players who are signed through next season:

 

[table]Player|2008 Salary

M. Ramirez|$20,000,000

J. Drew|$14,000,000

D. Ortiz|$12,500,000

J. Lugo|$9,000,000

J. Varitek|$9,000,000

D. Matsuzaka|$8,000,000

J. Beckett|$9,500,000

T. Wakefield|$4,000,000

C. Crisp|$4,750,000

J. Tavarez|$3,850,000

A. Cora|$2,000,000

H. Okajima|$1,250,000

C. Hansen|$700,000[/table]

 

By my count, that's $98,550,000, assuming JT's option is picked up.

 

Then you have the people who are potential free agents:

 

[table]Player|2007 Salary

C. Schilling|$13,000,000

M. Clement|$9,500,000

M. Lowell|$9,000,000

E. Hinske|$2,800,000

M. Timlin|$2,800,000

D. Mirabelli|$750,000

K. Snyder|$500,000

B. Corey|$500,000

J. Lopez|$400,000

B. Donnelly|$1,400,000[/table]

 

You also have to factor in Eric Gagne, Bobby Kielty, and Royce Clayton.

 

All in all, we see that $41,150,000 is coming off the books as of now, not including what we pay the other three.

 

Kevin Youkilis, Javier Lopez, Kyle Snyder, and Brendan Donnelly are all arb-eligible.

 

Papelbon, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, etc. are still under the Sox's control.

 

I think the fundamental answer is that they are willing to spend up to the Luxury Tax and reluctant to go much beyond that whenever possible. All the money up to that point makes 'sense' while beyond that it is extra expensive. They also have a history of doing that, spend all of your luxury tax dollars and as little beyond that as possible.

[example1]

He doesn't have a real reason for not wanting a .992 OBP guy in front of Rodriguez, Ortiz, and Ramirez. So, he's calling for conclusion.

 

For that matter, the Red Sox better have a damn good reason why they won't pursue him, even as a part time option. (400 AB's, rotating at DH, and LF)

 

The red sox will not go after Barry Bonds. Period.

 

Barry will not play in Boston. Period.

 

End of story.

[TedWilliams101]

ORS, I can't take anyone seriously if they want Papi to play 1st base and Bonds on the team.

Arod is debatable. But Papi at first? Are you kidding me.