What Would YOU Have Done Different?

[TheKilo]

TW101, be glad. You're the inspiration for this thread.

 

This is for all of the people who do nothing but bash but Theo and the FO. What moves would you have made that replace those that Theo has made over the last few seasons.

 

Be specific. Tell me EXACTLY what you would have done and why he has done a bad job in putting together this team.

[Gom]

1) Sign Damon. Heart and soul of your team, you let him go to your rivals for an extra couple million. Idiot move.

 

2) Not sign Drew. Very few people, even here, liked the deal. I don't remember who was available last year, but hell, even Nixon on a one or two your deal would have been better.

 

3) Resign Cabrera instead of Lugo. Defense matters more at short than the Moneyball people would make you believe. Any wonder you won when you got rid of Nomar?

 

In fairness, things I would have done that Theo did...I would have overbid for Matsuzaka, I would have kept Varitek at his inflated salary, I would have signed Okajima, and I would have traded for Gagne.

 

Even better..moving forward....

 

1 & 2) Resign Lowell and Schilling. Both of these guys are gamers, both of them want to come back. Similar contracts as they stand now, especially for Lowell, and Schilling on a two year deal seems fine. Schilling can bridge the rotation, and with a core of Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester, you will be in great shape. Schilling is a luxury you can afford. Lowell is a necessity.

 

3) Let Gagne go. Mistake. Don't compound it.

 

4) Find a trade partner for Crisp. You will have to eat most of his salary, welcome to the world of Yankee spending. Start Ellsbury in center from day one. Can't do worse than Crisp.

[TheKilo]

1) Sign Damon. Heart and soul of your team' date=' you let him go to your rivals for an extra couple million. Idiot move.[/quote']

 

Pay $13 million for a s***** LF/DH? Pass.

 

2) Not sign Drew. Very few people, even here, liked the deal. I don't remember who was available last year, but hell, even Nixon on a one or two your deal would have been better.

 

Nixon at a one year deal would not have been better than Drew, as Drew put up better numbers and Trot doesn't play against lefties.

 

I need a name of a player who should have taken over in RF instead of Drew.

 

3) Resign Cabrera instead of Lugo. Defense matters more at short than the Moneyball people would make you believe. Any wonder you won when you got rid of Nomar?

 

Renteria and Agon came after OCab. I don't think OCab was a FA last year.

 

In fairness, things I would have done that Theo did...I would have overbid for Matsuzaka, I would have kept Varitek at his inflated salary, I would have signed Okajima, and I would have traded for Gagne.

 

Thanks for agreeing.

 

Even better..moving forward....

 

1 & 2) Resign Lowell and Schilling. Both of these guys are gamers, both of them want to come back. Similar contracts as they stand now, especially for Lowell, and Schilling on a two year deal seems fine. Schilling can bridge the rotation, and with a core of Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester, you will be in great shape. Schilling is a luxury you can afford. Lowell is a necessity.

 

Agree.

 

3) Let Gagne go. Mistake. Don't compound it.

 

Agree.

 

4) Find a trade partner for Crisp. You will have to eat most of his salary, welcome to the world of Yankee spending. Start Ellsbury in center from day one. Can't do worse than Crisp.

 

Agree. Atlanta is my guess.

[riverside sluggers]

Gom, last time I checked, Damon's offensive and defensive skills are declining. Besides last time I checked, Sox will have Ellsbury ready to take over for 2008, and Yankees already have a replacement for Johnny in Melky Cabrera. Oh yea stupid ass move the Sox didnt pay 4 years/$52 million. It all works out in the end

[TedWilliams101]

There are many moves I would have made. First would have been to keep Ocab. There was no reason to let him go. Assuming I took control of the team after they let him go and we had acquired Renteria, I would have kept him on the team even after his off-year. It was a knee-jerk reaction trading him after one bad season.

 

Lets see. In July of the '06 season I would have traded some youth (not the main guys) for pitching depth and another bat. That would have possibly prevented our collapse. I was soo pissed when Theo did NOTHING while the Yankees got Abreu and destroyed us.

 

I wouldn't have signed either Lugo or Drew. I wouldn't need a SS since I would have kept Ocab, or Renteria if I came after that. For RF I would have either stuck with Trot for 1 more year and waited (the CF FA market for this off-season is deep) or signed an available FA for a 1-2 year deal (team option).

 

I would have gone after Dice-K. I agree with that move.

I would have signed Jima.

I would have gone after Gagne, I liked that move.

I would release Gagne after this season.

I would not resign Schilling.

I would look to add another Starter (FA or trade (FA SP is shallow). You always need a lot of depth at SP.

I would look to add another arm to the pen. I'd look strongly at MDC moving into the setup role if he is ready, if not Jima is fine another year.

I would go get a CF (I would still go after Andrew Jones even after his off year. I would probably focus on Torii Hunter tough).

I would then probably have the FA acquisition start in CF and move Ellsbury to RF. (unless the FA agreed to move to LF, but thats more of a manager's decision).

I would pursue Arod if he opts out. If he doesn't, or he doesn't want to play for Boston, I resign Lowell.

 

Thats off the top of my head right now, I'll go a bit more indepth after a bit of research tomorrow afternoon. I'm going to bed.

 

On a side note: I don't think Theo is the worst GM ever, but he has made his share of mistakes, some big ones I believe (Drew), but the fact is that he is the GM for the Red Sox and he is held to the highest of standards.

 

Oh and I left out some more:

 

Damon is a tough decision. It is really based on scouting. If scouting truely believes he will suck after 2 years of the deal, than I think you have to let him go. If your not confident in that, I would probably have to resign him, if anything, to keep him away from NY. I'll be honest though and say that I can't make a perfectly educated decision as I don't have all the resources/facts right now. But I certainly don't criticize Theo for letting him go.

 

Millar, thats an obvious one. Let him go.

Bill Mueller, I loved the guy, but it was his time to go.

The Beckett trade was a good trade. I hated letting Hanley go, but it was obviously a good trade for us. I would have made that trade.

 

Ok thats enough for now, really. I'll go more indepth tomorrow.

[TedWilliams101]

And again, I'll admit that many of us are quick to call out Theo. Its just our nature as fans for such a demanding team. We want a WS every year. I don't want to sound like a Yankee fan, but really, thats what its about. No GM is perfect, but its just annoying that we will most likely have to stick with Drew for at least another year. Some of us get caught up in that. I'll admit it.

 

Should Theo realistically loose his job? I don't have the answer, I don't think I could honestly answer that question. But he has made mistakes and should be criticized for them. But if he learns from them, I guess thats all that's important.

 

Tito, however, I believe should possibly loose his job. I say possibly because I don't know how he manages the team off the field and I have heard he does a good job, but I don't think he is very good at in-game management. I don't agree on how he uses the pen, or his decision making in tough situations. There are many examples of "mistakes" he has made, I think there are plenty of debatable moves he has/hasn't made just in this series. Thats it for now. I'm really going to bed now...

[yankeessuck013]

Going forward...

 

PURSUE AND SIGN AROD!

[riverside sluggers]

I would go get a CF (I would still go after Andrew Jones even after his off year. I would probably focus on Torii Hunter tough).

I would then probably have the FA acquisition start in CF and move Ellsbury to RF. (unless the FA agreed to move to LF, but thats more of a manager's decision).

 

Oy, Im getting a migraine

 

-- There isnt an opening for right field. Drew is signed through the year 2011 at $14 million per. He did end the regular season on a very good note, and sure is looking forward to a bounce back year. His defense was steady this past season as well.

 

-- No reason to shell out money for a center fielder. Ellsbury will be entrenched in that position for years to come, its where he plays his best D

 

-- Unless the FA agrees to move to left field? Manny is coming back next year for his last hurrah's of "Manny being Manny" in Boston

 

And no Im not quick to call out Theo. After watching the Sox slip to a 3rd place 86 win finish, he went all out for a team that improved by 10 wins... and for the first time since 95 won the AL East. And they are still in the ALCS

[ORS]

The idea of moving Ellsbury to RF shows how little baseball acumen TW101 has. He covers a whole lot of ground which is needed in RF at Fenway, but there's a reason he was in LF while JD was in RF when subbing in for Manny. Jacoby lacks the arm needed for Fenway's RF.

 

And if anyone thinks keeping Cabrera around was the right choice, then they need to make sure they don't root for the likes of Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz, or Jed Lowrie (if he doesn't get traded, but if he does you can't root for his replacement). The Sox had a very depleted minor league system and several type A free agents with expiring contracts after the WS victory. They replaced each and every one of them with another type A free agent, but in doing so they went from having a pick in rounds 1, 2, and 3 to having 2 in round 1 and 3 in round 1s. With those picks they selected Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden.

 

That said, I think this season is showing one weakness in their player evaluation methodology. They are too apt to fall in love with players. They've had their eye on Lugo and Drew for quite some time. They couldn't sign Drew when they initially wanted to because Nixon was in the way, and they couldn't get Tampa to be reasonable about Lugo when they initially wanted him. Instead of moving on, they still pined for these players despite them showing some signs of warts. They are two talented players who very well could turn things around, but the adoration of three years ago is looking like it will be an anchor from here forward.

[Mr Crunchy]

what can you do when only 3 of the 9 men at the plate are hitting?

we cant bench 6 men.

i wouldve started beckett..i wouldve started lester before i started wakefield

its water under the bridge

give these guys credit

byrd and the jake were effective

they throw strikes and kept the ball in the yard and they deserve both games for sure

this isnt an accident folks

the sox are playing a good f***ing team here and without a great effort they will lose.

[rician blast]

That said' date=' I think this season is showing one weakness in their player evaluation methodology. They are too apt to fall in love with players. They've had their eye on Lugo and Drew for quite some time. They couldn't sign Drew when they initially wanted to because Nixon was in the way, and they couldn't get Tampa to be reasonable about Lugo when they initially wanted him. Instead of moving on, they still pined for these players despite them showing some signs of warts. They are two talented players who very well could turn things around, but the adoration of three years ago is looking like it will be an anchor from here forward.[/quote']

 

An excellent point. Kind of like when the Yankees seek to build a team that resembles the All-star team from 5 years prior. It just doesn't seem to work.

[Paradisecity]

I thought Wake would bomb, but he actually pitched well. If he hadnt tried to field that DP.... if youk caught the ball.....

 

Wake's line looks bad but i thought he did ok.

 

League Championship Series 2007 Boston Red Sox Hitting | 1,2 | Next >>

 

Name TEAM Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

M. Lowell BOS 3B 4 16 1 4 1 0 1 6 1 1 0 .250

D. Pedroia BOS 2B 4 16 2 3 0 0 0 0 1 5 0 .188

C. Crisp BOS CF 4 16 1 3 1 0 0 0 0 4 1 .188

J. Varitek BOS C 4 15 1 3 1 0 1 4 0 4 0 .200

J. Drew BOS RF 4 15 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .267

K. Youkilis BOS 1B 4 15 4 6 0 0 1 1 3 2 0 .400

J. Lugo BOS SS 4 14 1 2 1 0 0 0 1 2 0 .143

D. Ortiz BOS DH 4 13 5 5 2 0 1 1 4 1 0 .385

M. Ramirez BOS LF 4 13 4 6 0 0 2 7 5 1 0 .462

D. Mirabelli BOS C 3 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 .000

 

Coco, Dusty and Lugo arent hitting. Cora and Ellsbury are sitting. There's a reason they let you have a roster.

[Paradisecity]

Apologies for putting this in the wrong place.

[TedWilliams101]

Riverside, all that I said there was assuming that I had NOT signed JD Drew. Now that we have him, of course he isn't going anywhere.

[TheKilo]

Riverside' date=' all that I said there was assuming that I had NOT signed JD Drew. Now that we have him, of course he isn't going anywhere.[/quote']

 

Give me a name plz.

[TheKilo]

The idea of moving Ellsbury to RF shows how little baseball acumen TW101 has. He covers a whole lot of ground which is needed in RF at Fenway, but there's a reason he was in LF while JD was in RF when subbing in for Manny. Jacoby lacks the arm needed for Fenway's RF.

 

And if anyone thinks keeping Cabrera around was the right choice, then they need to make sure they don't root for the likes of Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz, or Jed Lowrie (if he doesn't get traded, but if he does you can't root for his replacement). The Sox had a very depleted minor league system and several type A free agents with expiring contracts after the WS victory. They replaced each and every one of them with another type A free agent, but in doing so they went from having a pick in rounds 1, 2, and 3 to having 2 in round 1 and 3 in round 1s. With those picks they selected Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden.

 

I agree solidly with both points.

 

That said, I think this season is showing one weakness in their player evaluation methodology. They are too apt to fall in love with players. They've had their eye on Lugo and Drew for quite some time. They couldn't sign Drew when they initially wanted to because Nixon was in the way, and they couldn't get Tampa to be reasonable about Lugo when they initially wanted him. Instead of moving on, they still pined for these players despite them showing some signs of warts. They are two talented players who very well could turn things around, but the adoration of three years ago is looking like it will be an anchor from here forward.

 

This I don't agree with too much. I feel they acquired Lugo and Drew because the FO felt they were the best position players available at their respective positions. Are they?

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better option in RF last offseason than Drew. Yes, we know his reputation, but he's an extremely talented player who has had difficulties making adjustments to this league and playing for such a high profile team. Then there's also the fact that his kid was in a body cast all season and his wife is 8 months pregnant.

 

Has Drew earned his salary? No, not this year. I don't think it's fair to call the deal a bust at this point, because he did show flashes of being the player the FO paid for this year. I just think with all of his off field stuff, it made going to work every day really difficult for him.

 

Lugo is where the debate can come in. I loved the move when it happened. I thought he was a far superior offensive player to Alex Gonzalez. I thought his range was better than Gonzalez, and even though his hands weren't as good I felt he'd get to more balls.

 

His approach at the plate sucks. He's an awful road hitter, and I have found myself losing patience with him very quickly. Would AGon have been a better option? That's certainly debatable. I think the mistake at the SS position was panicking and dealing Renteria too soon. But even then, Theo got a supposed stud prospect whom he used to deal for Coco Crisp. As bad as Crisp has been, Andy Marte has been worse.

 

I think the "falling in love with players" argument holds very little water because I really believe Theo tried to sign the best available for the open positions he had. Drew and Lugo just have not executed.

[das11209]

I am focussing on how I would done things differently in the post-season

 

1. Keep Gagne out of the roaster.

2. Start Ellsbury at lead off spot from game 1 - use Coco as defensive replacement.

3. Start Becket in last night's game.

4. Start Kielty over Drew in last night's game - because of his record against Byrd.

 

And I am not doing this in hind-sight - I thought these moves made sense before the ALCS begun.

[MANNYHOF24]

Am I the only one you thinks we can still win this series? I mean seriously if Kevin Youkilis line drive was just a little more towards the ally way, the series would be at least 2-2, and it might even be 3-1 us. We just need Beckett to pitch the way he has all season and get the thing back to fenway. We can win two straight games at home. This series is not over, mark my words.

[TheKilo]

I am focussing on how I would done things differently in the post-season

 

1. Keep Gagne out of the roaster.

2. Start Ellsbury at lead off spot from game 1 - use Coco as defensive replacement.

3. Start Becket in last night's game.

4. Start Kielty over Drew in last night's game - because of his record against Byrd.

 

And I am not doing this in hind-sight - I thought these moves made sense before the ALCS begun.

 

Not what the thread is about, and I do think hindsight is a big part of your post.

[redsoxrules]

Am I the only one you thinks we can still win this series? I mean seriously if Kevin Youkilis line drive was just a little more towards the ally way' date=' the series would be at least 2-2, and it might even be 3-1 us. We just need Beckett to pitch the way he has all season and get the thing back to fenway. We can win two straight games at home. This series is not over, mark my words.[/quote']

 

bingo!.... alot of guys are struggling right now and cleveland keeps catching EVERY f***ing break (its getting anoying) IF we can just find a way to win game 5( wich i like our chances with beckett going ) we'll be all set because this team HITS way better at home and I'm sure schilling would have a better outing than last time

 

I still like our chances

[ORS]

I think the "falling in love with players" argument holds very little water because I really believe Theo tried to sign the best available for the open positions he had. Drew and Lugo just have not executed.

But there were hints of this non-performance last year. I'll admit, I thought they were best available too, and I was optimistic about what they could do for the team. But, just because they fit the "best available" moniker, it doesn't mean the FO didn't seriously overvalue these players, and they did do that. They were hot for these players years ago, and despite some hint of potential struggle (the injury protection clause for Drew, Lugo sucking the 2nd half of 2006), they inked them to big $$ long-term deals with no reported competition in the market.

 

I think, and hindsight is helping here - although so is a shift of attitude, they need to do a much better job of risk management. They got the best players available, but the worst case scenario happened, and now they stuck with them. Hopefully, they can turn it around. However, I'm starting to think prudence would dictate they avoid the big/long contract unless its for elite players, and, while these guys have talent, I think they are just short of elite (maybe Drew has elite talent, or did at some point, but he looks like a shell of the player he was in Atlanta).

[TheKilo]

But there were hints of this non-performance last year. I'll admit, I thought they were best available too, and I was optimistic about what they could do for the team. But, just because they fit the "best available" moniker, it doesn't mean the FO didn't seriously overvalue these players, and they did do that. They were hot for these players years ago, and despite some hint of potential struggle (the injury protection clause for Drew, Lugo sucking the 2nd half of 2006), they inked them to big $$ long-term deals with no reported competition in the market.

 

I think, and hindsight is helping here - although so is a shift of attitude, they need to do a much better job of risk management. They got the best players available, but the worst case scenario happened, and now they stuck with them. Hopefully, they can turn it around. However, I'm starting to think prudence would dictate they avoid the big/long contract unless its for elite players, and, while these guys have talent, I think they are just short of elite (maybe Drew has elite talent, or did at some point, but he looks like a shell of the player he was in Atlanta).

 

Fair enough. I have more faith that Drew turns it around than I do Lugo, that's for damn sure.

[das11209]

Not what the thread is about' date=' and I do think hindsight is a big part of your post.[/quote']

 

Dude - I enjoy your posts - but go back and check my previous posts. I said it was a mistake pitching Wake and not playing Crisp in last night's game thread even when Wake was cruising.

[TheKilo]

Dude - I enjoy your posts - but go back and check my previous posts. I said it was a mistake pitching Wake and not playing Crisp in last night's game thread even when Wake was cruising.

 

Fair 'nuff.

[redsoxrules]

question about beckett .... during lastnights game they were talking about beckett and game 4 , and apparantly beckett on his last start pulled something in his back wich is why he was pulled after 80 pitches and the reason he wasent gona start game 4 .

 

this was from Ken rosenthal , is this true or ********?

[Rdsxmbnt]

Quick thoughts on some of the more controversial moves:

 

Matsuzaka: Loved this move and still do. One of the best days ever honestly when I found out we won the bidding and then later when he signed the contract. I'll talk about this with Drew also, but the cost was "only" money, no draft picks or prospects and we landed a 26 year old with great stuff. He was probaly hyped a bit too much. Ace? eh idk, its possible but I think realistically he is a #2 or #3 which I have no problems with considering we have Josh Beckett and even Clay Buchholz in the same rotation. I'm hoping for some big strides next year, realistically I think he is a 200+ inning, 3.70 ERA, 8.3 K/9 and hopefully get his BB/9 into the 2.50-3.00 range which I think is definetly a possibility. People talk about the 100 mil comittment, but I believe all of the 50+ mil owed to the Lions is already paid off, so we owe him 48 mil or so over the next 5 years, love it.

 

Drew: Again I loved this move. He was coming off 4 straight years with an OPS over .885 and again we didn't have to give up any draft picks or anything. Hopefully he bounces back next year to at least a .840+ OPS. He wasn't completely useless as some people make him out to be, ~.800 OPS with a .370 OBP. He's sound defensively with a good throwing arm.

 

Lugo: I'll admit I was for this but I really hate it right now. We owe him 27 mil over the next 3 years and lost our chance at drafting Porcello. And to add insult to injury, we have a fine young 'SS' prospect in Jed Lowrie who is just about ready and has a nice bat. Hopefully we can pawn him off on someone somehow. Looking at his career numbers I can't justify giving him that much money even if you throwout this season.

 

Gagne: Again I don't think there was many opponents of this deal when it happened. It didn't work out at all, but you can't fault Theo for going out and getting the best MR on the market. We didn't give up anything major either. Gabbard looked like a servicable SP, but his success in Texas was limited and his peripherals are going to catch up to him. Murphy looks pretty good too, I think he could possibly be a .780 OPS OF over a full season. Beltre I didn't like giving up, but in 6 years, if he makes the majors and is an all-star you just tip your cap. We drafted Mark Texiera 9 years ago but I've never shed a tear over not signing him.

 

I may be a Theo apologist but I love what he has done with the team. The farm has been amazing, and the overall talent on this team is great. We had the best record in baseball and are in the ALCS, not much you can do when everyone in your lineup and nearly everyone in your rotation lays an egg in the 2nd series.

[VA Sox Fan]

question about beckett .... during lastnights game they were talking about beckett and game 4 , and apparantly beckett on his last start pulled something in his back wich is why he was pulled after 80 pitches and the reason he wasent gona start game 4 .

 

this was from Ken rosenthal , is this true or ********?

 

 

I would think ********.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yep. ********. The Sox were up 10-2 at the time I think, there was absolutely no reason for him to continue.

[He Hate Me]

I seem to recall that Jose Guillen had comparable power numbers to Drew. So maybe he could be an option. Admittedly, I don't know much about his defense in RF except that he has a decent arm from what I remember. He also has an issue with his temper, but I can't forsee any team with Ortiz or Manny on it having a problem with angry guys.

 

SO if you want a name other than Drew who was available last year. Guillen definetely is someone who at least had comparable power numbers.

[TheKilo]

I seem to recall that Jose Guillen had comparable power numbers to Drew. So maybe he could be an option. Admittedly, I don't know much about his defense in RF except that he has a decent arm from what I remember. He also has an issue with his temper, but I can't forsee any team with Ortiz or Manny on it having a problem with angry guys.

 

SO if you want a name other than Drew who was available last year. Guillen definetely is someone who at least had comparable power numbers.

 

Good point, but I guarantee no one last offseason was pining for Jose over Drew.