10/4 @ Cleveland - CC shuts Jacko up

[zackredsox]

Uh' date=' what?[/quote']

 

If this game ment nothing than why was the yankees ace wang starting?

 

better?

[Cocos Disciples]

Obviously it means something, but if the Yankees win Game 2, as Jacko has been saying for a while, they're still in a very good position, making it a 3 game series w/ homefield.

[Mr Crunchy]

1 game

thats all it is

1 game

but arod will be the toast of the ny press tomorrow along with the pathetic efforts of wang and the pen

 

petitte will be tuffer tomm

that is a given

[jacksonianmarch]

Consistency. I stated the same thing about the angels in the other thread. This is truly how I feel. After watching my team bow out of the playoffs in the ALDS with home field 3 of the last 5 seasons, I know what I am talking about.

 

In a 7 game series, it is much harder to carry momentum. You start out on the road and if luck shines upon you and you split the first 2, then you need to sweep them at your place in 3 games to keep your home field advantage per se. Any loss in those 3 games gives home field back to the opposing team. And with all 4 of these playoff teams, home field is where it is at. In a 5 game series, if you split the first 2, you have the chance to win the series with only 2 victories at home, which is much easier to do than win 3. Get my point? There is a reason why there is a famous saying about the playoffs.

 

"A series doesnt truly start until a home team loses". This is true almost to a T. Boston and Cleveland held serve in the first game. It means more to them than it does to the away team. Now being up 2-0 and pushing the other team to the brink with 3 to play is certainly a precarious situation and one that needs to be avoided. But dropping back 0-1 while losing on the road isnt that big of a deal. We'll see how tomorrow plays out.

[jacksonianmarch]

Obviously it means something' date=' but if the Yankees win Game 2, as Jacko has been saying for a while, they're still in a very good position, making it a 3 game series w/ homefield.[/quote']

 

exactly my point

[See Red]

To say you're still in good shape is a rosy outlook -- just look at who this game means more to. Game two means FAR more to the Yankees than it does to the Guardians, no matter how you break down the home field advantage.

[jacksonianmarch]

Game 1 means far more to the home team.

 

Game 2 means a lot for both teams. For Cleveland it means taking charge of the series. For the Yankees it means taking back homefield with the series shortened to 3 games. Even if the yankees lose tomorrow, the Guardians need to prove they can beat us on our home field. I have a high suspicion that the Guardians want nothing to do with a game 5, regardless of the venue. They want this thing done in NY.

 

For us, we respond after blowouts. This team seems to have a much tougher time recovering from tough losses. But after blowouts, we get very angry and go on a long winning streak. I expect a torching of the kid tomorrow night and with Clemens and a rested Moose waiting for Byrd and ???, I like our chances.

[jacksonianmarch]

and it isnt a rosy outlook. Last yr I was celebrating our game 1 victory thinking we had a date with the ALCS. Then the Tigers landed the deathblow and reverse dickpunched us into the offseason. I have maintained that the lower seed has the advantage in the short series, and I think this is the reason. Game 1 is out of our favor, yest we still have the chance to go home with the series tied and home field in our grasp. It should be interesting.

[Gom]

I just got home. We got smoked. We had a chance to steal that game, and s*** the bed. Again. This is getting annoying. Oh well, at least we don't have to wait a full day in between to play.

[Taliesin]

This is humble Jacko as opposed to smarmy Jacko and suicidal Jacko.

 

The Three Faces of Jacko as it were.

[See Red]

and it isnt a rosy outlook. Last yr I was celebrating our game 1 victory thinking we had a date with the ALCS. Then the Tigers landed the deathblow and reverse dickpunched us into the offseason. I have maintained that the lower seed has the advantage in the short series' date=' and I think this is the reason. Game 1 is out of our favor, yest we still have the chance to go home with the series tied and home field in our grasp. It should be interesting.[/quote']

 

And then all Cleveland has to do is split in New York to host game five. Why's that any less likely to happen than New York splitting in Cleveland? Especially in this case when Cleveland has the best 1-2 in the League.

 

You're on the road, playing a team that just beat you 12-3, against a guy who's ERA was 3.01 and while it's not an elimination game, it may just be do or die -- you have question marks pitching in game's 3 and 4 and another question mark in a possible decisive game five. And the Yankees have the advantage?! The Yankees better score early because if they fall behind and that crowd really gets into it they're done for.

 

The Guardians don't have to prove that they can beat you in New York... the Yankees have to prove that they can win in Cleveland. If they can't do it... it's over, no matter how well the Yankees do in the Stadium.

 

Keep this in mind Jacko, C.C. Sabathia struggled a great deal and you chased him, the possible Cy Young winner, from the game early and you still managed only three.

 

Also, I'm conveniently ignoring Byrd's numbers against the Yankees this year to tell you that Byrd's Road ERA is 3.51.

[riverside sluggers]

As I said before Jacko, Sox were the 2nd best road team in the majors (1st in the American League). Plus game 4 is being pitched by the best road pitcher in baseball, that being Josh Beckett. This is their series for the taking. Just because 2 games are coming up in Anaheim, doesnt take away the fact that they are the favorites

 

Guardians/Yankees I def see as a more gritty to the wire type series, game 5 (maybe 4), extra innings, all that jazz

[TheKilo]

we better bring it tomorrow. Wang had nothing and Torre refused to see it. I hate Joe Torre.

 

Excuse me, I thought Wang was "spectacular" in the postseason?

[TheKilo]

I'll ignore Jacko's comment that tonight's game meant nothing, seeing as the Yanks had the "spectacular" Chien Ming Wang starting.

 

My question is...

 

If you're gonna burn Phil Hughes for multiple innings, why do it when it's 12-3 as opposed to when Dusseldorf came in at 7-3?

[Gom]

We got smoked. I'm depressed. If I had a girlfriend, I'd throw her down the stairs. Instead, I'll punch Jacko if I see him.

[See Red]

We got smoked. I'm depressed. If I had a girlfriend' date=' I'd throw her down the stairs. Instead, I'll punch Jacko if I see him.[/quote']

 

:lol:

 

... I usually just avoid watching the ESPN when my teams lose...

[yankeessuck013]

I think my yankee friend said it best:

 

Josh Beckett showed yesterday why he's an ace. Chien-Ming Wang went out tonight and pitched like an absolute chump.

[example1]

Game 1 means far more to the home team.

 

Game 2 means a lot for both teams. For Cleveland it means taking charge of the series. For the Yankees it means taking back homefield with the series shortened to 3 games. Even if the yankees lose tomorrow, the Guardians need to prove they can beat us on our home field. I have a high suspicion that the Guardians want nothing to do with a game 5, regardless of the venue. They want this thing done in NY.

 

Game 2 always means a lot, particularly since Game 1 is invariably over by then and Game 2 is the only game the teams are playing. You're right that the Yanks get homefield if they can win tomorrow, but the same is true if Cleveland is able to win one in NY. It really just comes down to playing the freaking game on the field; each day the game starts over and you simply can't predict what will happen in terms of who wins each particular game.

 

I still feel that the Yankees will win this series. They did what they needed to do against C.C. tonight, despite everyone crowning CC the savior and Clevelend the two-headed monster. I need to see Carmona for more than one good season, and Sabathia when the game is on the line to know if they really are as good as their records/statistics indicate. They are both PHENOMENAL talents, huge arms and very dangerous. However, we've all watched Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling and Josh Beckett and Daisuke Matsuzaka struggle A LOT against this team. EVERY pitcher struggles against the Yankees more often than not. Sabathia walked 6 and none of them scored. We've all watched Sox games where they are able to get on base but just not able to get the runs in, or having the pen not be able to stop the bleeding. Don't expect the baseball gods to be receptive to 6 walks and no runs the next time around.

 

Statistically, one has to believe that A-Rod will explode one of these games. He's simply too good to stay dormant for such an extended period. If I remember correctly, Manny Ramirez was a NOTORIOUSLY big playoff choker. Despite hitting above .300 in his last SIX playoff series, he has a career post-season average of .258 in 310 ABs. (The big playoff hit that seemed to turn it all around was a HR off of Barry Zito in game 5 of the 2003 series, with Pedro on the mound for the Sox. The announcers talked about Manny "showboating" for standing and watching his HR; in the same breath moments earlier they had been talking about how he was not a good "playoff" hitter, that he doesn't come through in the "clutch".) The discussion about "clutch" is, and will continue to be rampant. When A-Rod produces the Yankees are a very different team.

 

For us, we respond after blowouts. This team seems to have a much tougher time recovering from tough losses. But after blowouts, we get very angry and go on a long winning streak. I expect a torching of the kid tomorrow night and with Clemens and a rested Moose waiting for Byrd and ???, I like our chances.

 

I was watching tonights game hoping for a close game, especially as Cleveland was pulling away. I don't think the Yankees "respond" after blowouts, but they certainly aren't bothered by them. It gives them a chance to get that nights game out of the way, to see it as an anomaly--because this Yankees team is too good to lose like that and they all know that. Pettitte will be tough tomorrow, but this team is missing the same thing we've all been saying for a long time: an ace.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

This was the first time I got to see Phil Hughes pitch and I wasn't impressed.

[BSN07]

Hey Jacko, still take Wang over Beckett?

 

Wang is a good pitcher, but Beckett is an Ace.

 

Wang's biggest issue last night was that he was leaving everything up and was wild to boot.

[jacksonianmarch]

This was the first time I got to see Phil Hughes pitch and I wasn't impressed.

 

He is missing about 2mph on his fastball and all of the location on his curve. I have seen him with my own eyes 3 times, and the kid is better than this. Since his injury, he's been a 90-92 mph guy with inconsistent stuff. He's usually 92-94 with sharp stuff. Expect something different after a full offseason and full recovery.

[jacksonianmarch]

Game 2 always means a lot, particularly since Game 1 is invariably over by then and Game 2 is the only game the teams are playing. You're right that the Yanks get homefield if they can win tomorrow, but the same is true if Cleveland is able to win one in NY. It really just comes down to playing the freaking game on the field; each day the game starts over and you simply can't predict what will happen in terms of who wins each particular game.

 

I still feel that the Yankees will win this series. They did what they needed to do against C.C. tonight, despite everyone crowning CC the savior and Clevelend the two-headed monster. I need to see Carmona for more than one good season, and Sabathia when the game is on the line to know if they really are as good as their records/statistics indicate. They are both PHENOMENAL talents, huge arms and very dangerous. However, we've all watched Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling and Josh Beckett and Daisuke Matsuzaka struggle A LOT against this team. EVERY pitcher struggles against the Yankees more often than not. Sabathia walked 6 and none of them scored. We've all watched Sox games where they are able to get on base but just not able to get the runs in, or having the pen not be able to stop the bleeding. Don't expect the baseball gods to be receptive to 6 walks and no runs the next time around.

 

Statistically, one has to believe that A-Rod will explode one of these games. He's simply too good to stay dormant for such an extended period. If I remember correctly, Manny Ramirez was a NOTORIOUSLY big playoff choker. Despite hitting above .300 in his last SIX playoff series, he has a career post-season average of .258 in 310 ABs. (The big playoff hit that seemed to turn it all around was a HR off of Barry Zito in game 5 of the 2003 series, with Pedro on the mound for the Sox. The announcers talked about Manny "showboating" for standing and watching his HR; in the same breath moments earlier they had been talking about how he was not a good "playoff" hitter, that he doesn't come through in the "clutch".) The discussion about "clutch" is, and will continue to be rampant. When A-Rod produces the Yankees are a very different team.

 

 

 

I was watching tonights game hoping for a close game, especially as Cleveland was pulling away. I don't think the Yankees "respond" after blowouts, but they certainly aren't bothered by them. It gives them a chance to get that nights game out of the way, to see it as an anomaly--because this Yankees team is too good to lose like that and they all know that. Pettitte will be tough tomorrow, but this team is missing the same thing we've all been saying for a long time: an ace.

 

ARod had 3 atbats when the game was still on the line. He walked twice (once intentional) and popped out. If he hit 2 homers the rest of the way while we were down by 9, he'd be called a pileon guy. If he doesnt hit, then he sucks in the playoffs. He did his job last night and kept the big innings going. It was Posada and Matsui who just didnt come to hit last night, and it killed a couple rallies.

 

In terms of blowouts, it seems that every time this team is embarassed, they respond in a big way. But to contrast, a tough loss lingers. For example, we lost 16-0 to the Tigers prior to our series with you guys in late August, and we swept you. In September, you guys beat us 10-1, and we came back to take the last game of the series and then sweep Baltimore. It is what this team does. In contrast, when we had a 6-2 lead with Mo on the hill, and you guys came back to beat us, that was the start of a 7 game losing streak. There are other examples, but this is how the team under Torre has played. If embarrassed, will respond. We'll see if they stick to that.

[Mr Crunchy]

ahh good morning mj how are you??

wang reminded us what the definition of an ace is.....

and isnt

those 2 guys who started last nite arent

how does ny lose that f***ing game with sabby walking the entire lineup?

amazing futility out there when it mattered.

 

how long before torre moves arod down in the order?

 

i think i'll headover to the ny papers

nothing pumps my gnads more than reading about the yanks failures as written by the likes of little joel sherman and iron mike lupica

 

at least theyre not the knicks

[ORS]

The whole, "they really bounce back from an embarrassment" stuff is really funny. No chance that has something to do with selective memory? Look over the gamelogs. They have some good streaks and some bad streaks after shellackings, with both examples in the 1st half and 2nd half. It's a big fat pile of wishful thinking.

 

The better pitcher wins tonight's game. Not the team with a higher COR.

[TheKilo]

He is missing about 2mph on his fastball and all of the location on his curve. I have seen him with my own eyes 3 times' date=' and the kid is better than this. Since his injury, he's been a 90-92 mph guy with inconsistent stuff. He's usually 92-94 with sharp stuff. Expect something different after a full offseason and full recovery.[/quote']

 

He's not as spectacular as Wang is yet, right?

[jacksonianmarch]

one game, that is all it is. We'll see tonight.

[redsoxrules]

He's not as spectacular as Wang is yet' date=' right?[/quote']

 

[ARod2212]

Those 19 games Wang won this year mean nothing. The 19 he won last year, nothing either. He's not an ace, end of conversation. He got bombed in ONE playoff game! Can't you see how important that is?!

 

Yes, Beckett had an absolutely phenomenal start, and Wang was awful, but let's not just go and judge their merits on one game of the ALDS. Beckett impressed the hell out of me, and I'm interested in seeing what he can do the rest of the playoffs.

 

Wang was disappointing, but he's had starts like this before, and they're outliers. He lasted at least 6 innings in 27 of 30 starts, and 5 2/3 in 29 out of 30.

 

His sinker didn't bite, so he had a bad outing. I'm not quite ready to give up on him. I want Wang with the ball in Game 4 at the Stadium.

 

 

And come on, A-Rod was on base 2/4 of his plate appearances. Don't start with that.

[BoSox21]

Yes' date=' Beckett had an absolutely phenomenal start, and Wang was awful, but let's not just go and judge their merits on one game of the ALDS. Beckett impressed the hell out of me, and I'm interested in seeing what he can do the rest of the playoffs.[/quote']

 

ok. you feel like factoring in 2003 as well then? im sure you remember it well...

[VA Sox Fan]

And come on' date=' A-Rod was on base 2/4 of his plate appearances. Don't start with that.[/quote']

 

2 walks, one intentional