Shortstop

[mosox]

Lugo is hitting .224 with more k's than walks. Of all the positions, this is a mess Theo created. First by letting OCab go in 2005 then signing Edgar for more money, only to have him turn into a train wreck. Then came Theo's winter exile in '05 and off went Hanley Ramirez to the Marlins. Gonzo flashed leather, but couldn't swing any lumber, and now it's Lugo. At this point, I think Tito should just play Cora at short. That would make Cora the 5th shortstop in 4 years since trading Nomar.

[BSN07]

And your probably one of the posters that suggested Cora play for Pedroia too...

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

I gurantee you that in regular playing time, Lugo would be more effective than Cora.

[TGov]

also, Lugo has most of our team steals, and it's nice to see a red sox steal, haven't seen it in a while...

[mtbykr]

he also has the most rbi's of any leadoff guy in the league. at least he's getting runs in (and for the record i wished we had never let ocab go)

[Beckett95]

give Lugo some time to work things out, and if by the trade deadline he's still hitting .220, then you consider changing it up. But we invested to much money on this guy to give up on him right now. hes proven before he is a quality SS and hitter. He's got a bunch of RBI's and SB's so thats a good thing. Maybe they should try moving him down in the order to like 7th so he can get more RBI oppurtunities.

 

Youk

Pedroia

Ortiz

Manny

Lowell

Drew

Lugo

Varitek

Crisp

 

im sure with that lineup, he'd get a lot of chances with RISP, where he's hitting .287 with 29 RBI.

[ANiMAL]

I never agreed with signing Lugo. We should have resigned Loretta and let Pedrioa go back to his original position, Shortstop.

[schillingouttheks]

I never agreed with signing Lugo. We should have resigned Loretta and let Pedrioa go back to his original position' date=' Shortstop.[/quote']

 

Pedroia doesn't have the arm for SS.

 

They could have just stuck with Renteria (who I still believe would have had a good second year here) or re-signed O-Cab...

[adam123]

IT really hurts to see oc have great play after great play . He only hit in every playoff game .

Bad move on theo's part

[mtbykr]

i'm glad we dont' have rent anymore...i don't think he could play here. I think Lugo will be fine, just give him some time (it's still june 5) If i could go back in time though i would have kept ocab

[RedsoxFanInNYC]

i'm glad we dont' have rent anymore...i don't think he could play here. I think Lugo will be fine' date=' just give him some time (it's still june 5) If i could go back in time though i would have kept ocab[/quote']

 

Agreed. Some guys are just built to play in small markets such as Florida STL and Atlanta. Or even if i'm buying too much into the pressure getting to Renteria some guys are just National League players. Lugo will be fine he's not getting his hits yet but he has as many rbi's as Carlos Delgado who is a cleanup hitter on the best NL team. Not like he's doing nothing.

[NateGrey]

.. Lets be realistic here guys, players go through slumps .. Geesh, some of you sound like yankee fans ..

[mosox]

This thread was not meant to be about Lugo as much as it was about the decisions of the front office at this position over the last three years.

If you think you can compare Lugo to Pedroia, good luck and I hope your right, because were stuck with Lugo for 4 years.

But the fact is Pedroia has turned it around and Lugo hasn't. Pedroia knew he had to earn his place, where Lugo has 4 years at 36 million.

Since Nomar was traded, there has been a revolving door at shortstop with no success.

Refusing to pay OCab after '04 may be the biggest regret (.328 avg, 74 hits, 29 rbi, 40 runs scored, 3 hr)

Signing Renteria may be the biggest blunder, but he's an all-star again (.326 avg, 74 hits, 29 rbi 41 runs scored, 8 hr).

Letting Gonzalez and his glove go may be the biggest puzzle considering how the improved pitching would benefit from a better defensive shortstop, plus he's hitting well (.272 avg, 56 hits, 26 rbi, 32 runs scored, 11 hr).

And trading Hanley Ramirez in the deal for Beckett, which seems fair now, but can only be adequately judged years from now. This guy was Theo's "untouchable", until his Halloween exile in '05. Now he is an all-star (.309 avg, 72 hits, 51 runs scored, 8 hr).

So we are left with Julio Lugo, long coveted by the organization, who finsihed the last 49 games with LA last year hitting .219, and was rewarded with 36 million dollars (.224 avg, 48 hits, 33 rbi, 27 runs scored, 3 hr).

Sure he's the rbi leader among shortstops (barely), but he isn't scoring runs and getting on base and shows an erractic arm defensively.

If you guys want to make quick sarcastic comments, then fine, I don't pretend to know it all.

It is great to see Pedroia showing signs of making a future for himself at second (which has been a revolving door also for a couple of seasons), but the decisions at shortstop have been reactionary, miscalculated and costly.

[TedWilliams101]

I agree that Theo made a mistake letting O'Cab go... then Renteria go. But really, Lugo was our best option for this season. He WILL get hot, we just have to be patient. I would like him to be dropped down in the lineup and have Youk leadoff, but Lugo's BA and OBP WILL rise with time.

[MANNYHOF24]

Agreed. Some guys are just built to play in small markets such as Florida STL and Atlanta. Or even if i'm buying too much into the pressure getting to Renteria some guys are just National League players. Lugo will be fine he's not getting his hits yet but he has as many rbi's as Carlos Delgado who is a cleanup hitter on the best NL team. Not like he's doing nothing.

 

It is pretty much a known fact now that Renteria was not healthy almost the entire year here. That probably led to fairly poor play, however he was actually decent at the plate that year, he was just horrible in the field, which I am sure would have gotten a lot better in his second year.

[MANNYHOF24]

This is what my lineup would look like with a healthy Drew

 

Pedroia

Youk

Ortiz

Manny

Drew

Lowell

Varitek

Pena

Lugo

 

I left out Crisp well, because he sucks and probably should not be in our lineup. I honestly believe that lineup would produce the most runs for our team.

[RedsoxFanInNYC]

This is what my lineup would look like with a healthy Drew

 

Pedroia

Youk

Ortiz

Manny

Drew

Lowell

Varitek

Pena

Lugo

 

I left out Crisp well, because he sucks and probably should not be in our lineup. I honestly believe that lineup would produce the most runs for our team.

 

 

I agree with everything you put there besides the Jets sucking of corse lol.

[Teddyballgame10]

Pedroia doesn't have the arm for SS.

 

They could have just stuck with Renteria (who I still believe would have had a good second year here) or re-signed O-Cab...

 

Thats what I thought, he juse needed time to adjust

[SCM33]

I agree that Theo made a mistake letting O'Cab go... then Renteria go. But really' date=' Lugo was our best option for this season. He WILL get hot, we just have to be patient. I would like him to be dropped down in the lineup and have Youk leadoff, but Lugo's BA and OBP WILL rise with time.[/quote']

 

Why was it a mistake letting Ocab go? He really isnt all that great. He did great here for 1 month.

 

I think the bigger mistake was the Renterria blunder. First of all, offensively he had a pretty solid season, defensively he was a mess, but from all indications of his career numbers and post-redsox numbers...those 30 errors were a fluke. Had Renterria been given another year he may have hit even better and im sure his D would have improved.

 

Look at their career numbers....Lugo is better than Ocab in almost every important category based on a 162 game season.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lugoju01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cabreor01.shtml

 

 

Then, if you can deal with the kick to the balls, look at Renterias numbers pre, and post boston as well as his career numbers.

[example1]

Why was it a mistake letting Ocab go? He really isnt all that great. He did great here for 1 month.

 

I think the bigger mistake was the Renterria blunder. First of all, offensively he had a pretty solid season, defensively he was a mess, but from all indications of his career numbers and post-redsox numbers...those 30 errors were a fluke. Had Renterria been given another year he may have hit even better and im sure his D would have improved.

 

Look at their career numbers....Lugo is better than Ocab in almost every important category based on a 162 game season.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lugoju01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cabreor01.shtml

 

 

Then, if you can deal with the kick to the balls, look at Renterias numbers pre, and post boston as well as his career numbers.

 

 

The Renteria stuff is an OLD and moot discussion.

 

However, anyone who watched Renteria play saw that he appeared unhappy and overweight and slow. Perhaps he's faster, thinner and happier now that he's in ATL. Who cares? Good riddance. That was the 05 season. Which was more than a season ago.

 

Lugo and Cabrera are different players who offer different things. Both are good players but Lugo clearly adds something to this offense (namely speed) that Cabrera can't (even though he has some himself).

[Ray10]

I would much rather have Julio Lugo at SS then Cora. Lugo hits much better than Cora does and his glove is alot better at the position as well. If Cora was to play it should be at 2nd but even there we have Pedroia so he won't be playing there he's gonna stay on the bench for a longtime to come.

[mosox]

"Cabrera signed with the Angels for $32M over four years. For a million fewer dollars a year than the Red Sox are paying Lugo, the Angels have a shortstop who is considerably superior defensively and hitting .333 with an .834 OPS. Lugo is hitting .217 with a .591 OPS. In 664 career at bats, Braves pitcher Mike Hampton has a .292 OBP and a .354 slugging percentage for a .646 OPS. In other words, the Red Sox would have scored more runs with Mike Hampton leading off for them than Julio Lugo.

It seems as if he never gets on base. Thanks to Lugo, the Red Sox are 14th in the American League in leadoff OBP, almost 50 points behind the 13th-place Devil Rays."

-- 6.8.07, Kevin Hench, FoxSports.com

 

It seems the secret is out. Lugo is beginning to take a beating in the press. I wonder how he'll handle the pressure, since it seemed to crush Renetria.

[TheKilo]

Hench should just go suck Bill Simmon's dick.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Mike Hampton hasnt played a game of baseball in 2 years. So is he saying that having no one at all in the leadoff spot is better than Lugo? (3.2.1...) Not to mention if your comparing career lines, Ill take Lugo's .272/.336/.397/.733 over Hampton's .242/.292/.354/.646. I know Lugo has been awful and not really trying to defend him but what an atrocious argument.

[RedSoxRooter]

Thats what I thought' date=' he juse needed time to adjust[/quote']

 

But Manny was bangin' Renteria's wife. They made a choice, get rid of Edgar or Manny. Edgar goes.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBF&q=%22renteria%27s+wife%22+manny&btnG=Search

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/rumor-mill/6201-things-you-dont-know-i-know.html

[schillingouttheks]

The thing is...something about that did surface in the media. I wouldn't be able to pick it out for you, but I totally remember it.

 

Anyway, that thread was f***ing hilarious