Jayson Stark: Drew 2nd most overrated player in baseball

[Beckett95]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2880887

 

i think its just an attitude/confidence thing with him. How many players would, if given the option to start in a game against there biggest rival, tell there manager to play someone else? It seems like he just doesnt want to be there.

[TedWilliams101]

I would have to agree with Stark. People mention his tallent, but Drew has yet to actually put it together. The Red Sox made a stupid move giving him $14 million a year. He isn't even worth $8 million. Is it really a surprise he has been struggling in Boston and even didn't want to play against the Yankees a few days ago? Sounds exactly like the guy EVERYONE but Theo was warning about.

[ksushi]

I mean, yeah I think Drew is over payed but seriously, his underrated overrated thing sucks. I'm not saying I disagree that Drew is overrated, because I don't necessarily, but I don't think he sucks, but yeah anyhow...

 

His underrated column was HORRIBLE. Oswalt is not underrated. Trevor Hoffman is not underrated! Hanley Ramirez is one of most talked about young players in the game who might become a once in a generation talent... and hes calling him underrated! Its ridiculous. And Jake Peavy? Are you serious? He is overrated... considering the year he had last year and the people that would still give up their left testicle in a fantasy trade for him.

[ksushi]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2880887

 

i think its just an attitude/confidence thing with him. How many players would, if given the option to start in a game against there biggest rival, tell there manager to play someone else? It seems like he just doesnt want to be there.

 

 

In his defense, I don't think he sought on tito and told him he wanted to sit... but I think it was more they wanted to give him a couple days with the off day and give him time to figure himself out because he looks lost right now.

[Seldini]

Like the article says, he's just amazingly lucky the Sox are doing well despite him, if not, this town would be burying him under ten tons of criticism. (As it is, it's already piling on despite the team's success.)

[Rodney Harrison]

I mean, yeah I think Drew is over payed but seriously, his underrated overrated thing sucks. I'm not saying I disagree that Drew is overrated, because I don't necessarily, but I don't think he sucks, but yeah anyhow...

 

His underrated column was HORRIBLE. Oswalt is not underrated. Trevor Hoffman is not underrated! Hanley Ramirez is one of most talked about young players in the game who might become a once in a generation talent... and hes calling him underrated! Its ridiculous. And Jake Peavy? Are you serious? He is overrated... considering the year he had last year and the people that would still give up their left testicle in a fantasy trade for him.

 

I prefer to think of last year as an aberration for Peavy. Remember, he did win an ERA title in 2004 and his ERA in 2005 was sub-3.00. He went 28-13 in those years His K's have gone up every year except for last year (215 compared to 216 in 2005). Overrated? I think not.

[Cocos Disciples]

Uhh...how is Peavy overrated? This year he's been the best starter in baseball. 6 wins, sub 2 ERA, sub 1 WHIP.

[ksushi]

He definitely isn't underrated.

[Beckett95]

Peavy is probably the nastiest pitcher in baseball right now. His stuff is absolutely filthy.

[JShramek]

I saw Peavy pitch when he was in A ball in Fort Wayne IN......Dude had it going on there as well, One game he struck out 15 in like 7 innings.

[Anuj09]

i also dont think that Roy Oswalt is underrated i mean any baseball fan knows who he is.l Also i dont think hes the Johan Santana of the NL i think that honor goes to Jake Peavy

[BoSox Rule]

Maybe J.D. Drew is overrated, maybe he isn't. However, I fail to see how Stark's analysis = overrated.

Nobody denies that Drew has massive talent oozing out of his eyebrows. You can tell because he entered this season as one of only 13 active players with a career slugging percentage over .500 and an on-base percentage over .390.

 

But now the bad news: Those other dozen players have made a combined 70 All-Star teams (and all have made at least two apiece). And Drew has made, well, zero.

Stark raves about his tremendous on-base skills and good power, but uses All-Star appearances as the sole reason for him being overrated? If his OPS is as good as Stark says he is wouldn't the lack of All-Star appearances land him on his underrated list?

[CrespoBlows]

That's because Gold Gloves, All-Star Games, Wins for pitchers, batting average, and RBI's are the true measures of performance.

 

That + grit.

[TedWilliams101]

I thought his argument for Drew being overrated was weak, but I do think he is overrated... by the Sox. Just about every other team/person in baseball believes JD is a soft player who will never put it all together and reach his potential. Everyone who has been around him has called him soft, questioned his motivation/devotion, and believe he is damanged goods.

 

The Red Sox overrated him and therefore overpaid him. I don't care how much potential a guy has. If he has had injury problems since day 1 and has yet to put it together at his age (31), he doesnt deserve to get paid with the top players. You have to earn it first, and JD hasn't. Is anyone really surprised with JD so far this season? Isn't this what everyone was warning the Sox about?

[Mr Crunchy]

hes had a bulls eye on his ass since he bailed on philly

its nearly impossible to live up to the huge expectations thrust upon him

hes never had superstar #s,he has had some very productive years

his problem is the perception of him being a candy ass and a me 1st type of guy

honestly i dont know as hes been out in the nl

gammons often compared him and not in a good way to nixon

at the time nixon was playing and coming into his own in 03

drew was myred on the dl

now 4 years later its trot who lost the big bucks due to injury and drew got the big deal

after 14yrs in town i dont believe we offered nixon a dime??

i understand the business aspects of the game and i was never a nixon guy but damn.....

thats cold

 

anyways

i s*** on drew constantly but in my soul i am rooting for nothing but success and redemption for the guy...i want some love back however

im not a teenage girl or a fat broad who will suffer without question

im a f***ing whore when it comes to my redsox

[Thumper]

In my opinion, I deem Drew as "Okay" he can play good when he wants. But he really is overrated. He's not the superstar we were promised during the off-season.

 

And to be honest, I still miss Trot. So far he's doing great out in Cleveland. But who's to say he'd be good if he were still with us? But atleast he doesn't have a huge ego. And certainly didn't coast us $14 Million a year.

[TedWilliams101]

Right now I'd rather have Trot than Drew. Trot is

1. Cheap.

2. Had only ever played for the Red Sox prior to this year; he was a true Red Sox.

3. We would only have to give him a 1 year deal which would mean

4. We could sign a big FA CF next year (Andrew Jones, Torii Hunter, Ichiro, etc).

5. Club House chemistry and the guy everyone loves.

[MANNYHOF24]

Right now I'd rather have Trot than Drew. Trot is

1. Cheap.

2. Had only ever played for the Red Sox prior to this year; he was a true Red Sox.

3. We would only have to give him a 1 year deal which would mean

4. We could sign a big FA CF next year (Andrew Jones, Torii Hunter, Ichiro, etc).

5. Club House chemistry and the guy everyone loves.

 

Let's get real here, Trot Nixon was dreadful last sesaon. J.D. is a good hitter with a very good eye. His defense is a huge upgrade over Nixon. Drew is going to hit .275 with 25 hrs and about 80-100 RBI. Don't worry about Drew he will be fine.

[Thumper]

Let's get real here' date=' Trot Nixon was dreadful last sesaon. J.D. is a good hitter with a very good eye. His defense is a huge upgrade over Nixon. Drew is going to hit .275 with 25 hrs and about 80-100 RBI. Don't worry about Drew he will be fine.[/quote']

 

$20 Trot hits .308 with 23 hrs and 75 RBI. Which is pretty much just as good.

[schillingouttheks]

If one more person makes a statement about chemistry I'm going to stab everyone within a 5-mile radius... KLJSBGASRJKGRAKBAJSDFBGLASEGFTAWRG. OK. Moving on.

 

You have the benefit of hindsight. I love the guy, but it was Trot's time to go. He didn't do a good job protecting Manny in the 5 spot (high average with an "empty" bat...no power). We needed an upgrade, and Drew is an upgrade. He's coming into his own. You need to give players that switch leagues and coasts time to adjust. Drew looked great at the beginning of the season, and then crashed into the right field wall. Now, I know he's had injuries in the past, but that was a HARD crash. That would take anyone out. I don't think Drew was 100% better from that crash and I still don't think he is, but he had a great game yesterday and looked the best that he has since he was hitting ~.400 a month or so ago. Give it some time, and you'll be happy that we have Drew instead of Nixon. Yeah, the price is a bit ridiculous, but he's an upgrade.

 

Besides, let's not worry about finances. You have to remember that we are the Boston Red Sox. We have financial muscles, so let's flex them. They'll let Curt walk after this season, giving us that $13 million to play around with. Clement's contract will be off our hands (right?) and we'll have more to play around with. Among other expiring contracts, the Sox will have enough money. As I said before, we've obviously overpaid for Drew, but the point is we have him now and he'll be better than Nixon was. When it comes down to it, we upgraded the team. Period.

[schillingouttheks]

$20 Trot hits .308 with 23 hrs and 75 RBI. Which is pretty much just as good.

 

I'll take that easily. No way he hits 23 homers.

 

$20 Trot gets hurt by July and misses the next two months. I know you could spin this with Drew, but you're trying to prove that Nixon could give us what Drew can. He can't. Drew's the better player. You need to let Drew get accustomed to a new league, a new coast, and a new team.

[TheKilo]

Right now I'd rather have Trot than Drew. Trot is

1. Cheap.

 

Ever hear the expression "You get what you pay for?" Drew is far and away a superior player to Nixon, and his career numbers show that.

 

2. Had only ever played for the Red Sox prior to this year; he was a true Red Sox.

 

True Red Sox? I hate it when people say this. What the f*** does this even mean?

 

In 2003 you would tell me that Nomar was a true Red Sox. How'd that end up working out?

 

Take that s*** to nyyfans.com.

 

3. We would only have to give him a 1 year deal which would mean

4. We could sign a big FA CF next year (Andrew Jones, Torii Hunter, Ichiro, etc).

 

Not to nitpick, isn't this only one point?

 

You hate WMP because he strikes out too much. Want to take a look at Jones's K rates?

 

Torii Hunter is not worth what he will command on the market this offseason. He's a nice player, not a superstar.

 

Ichiro would be OK, but there's a logjam at center. Where do you put Ellsbury next year if you sign one of these guys?

 

5. Club House chemistry and the guy everyone loves.

 

Thank you for this purely statistical and thoroughly specific analysis.

 

 

 

 

$20 Trot hits .308 with 23 hrs and 75 RBI. Which is pretty much just as good.

 

I'll also take this bet. Are you high?

 

Nixon has only hit more than 23 home runs three times. He has only hit for over 75 RBIs 3 times.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/nixontr01.shtml

 

You think Trot can hit 21 HRs over the rest of the year? He can hit for 55 more RBIs?

[TedWilliams101]

Look at Andrew Jones numbers, far better than JD. Peroid. 7 30+ HR season, 5 100+ RBI season, 9 gold gloves. JD has potential, but hasn't done anything and hasn't been able to stay healthy. Jones has. How can you possibly say Jones isn't worth more than JD because he strikes out! Hes 100X better than JD. And about JD's value, yea he has more potential, but he has always been an injury risk and has never put together a great season. And guess what, he isn't doing much better than Nixon right now, is he. My point is, I'd much rather have Trot for this year and then go after Andrew Jones. Jones is far better than Drew. I don't like being stuck with him for 5 years and $14 million when he is just going to decline with age.

[BSN07]

I´ll take that bet too, sign me up?

[TheKilo]

Look at Andrew Jones numbers' date=' far better than JD. Peroid. 7 30+ HR season, 5 100+ RBI season, 9 gold gloves.[/quote']

 

He has awesome power, but his increasing K rates suggest he won't keep that up. You want to sign him long-term?

 

Gold Gloves are a s***** way of discussing a player's worth. Do I think he's a good defensive CF? Yes. Use other means to tell me so.

 

JD has potential, but hasn't done anything and hasn't been able to stay healthy. Jones has.

 

Fair point. Drew's been healthy the last few years and has produced. That's why he got signed.

 

How can you possibly say Jones isn't worth more than JD because he strikes out! Hes 100X better than JD.

 

You tell me the same thing about WMP. You say he's a sucky player because he strikes out too much.

 

I'm telling you Andruw Jones strikes out too much.

 

And about JD's value, yea he has more potential, but he has always been an injury risk and has never put together a great season. And guess what, he isn't doing much better than Nixon right now, is he.

 

I would say Trot is hitting as well as he can right now whereas JD has tremendous room to improve.

 

 

My point is, I'd much rather have Trot for this year and then go after Andrew Jones. Jones is far better than Drew. I don't like being stuck with him for 5 years and $14 million when he is just going to decline with age.

 

Tell me how Jones is far better. Don't use Gold Gloves, either.

[CrespoBlows]

Look at Andrew Jones numbers' date=' far better than JD. Peroid. 7 30+ HR season, 5 100+ RBI season, 9 gold gloves. JD has potential, but hasn't done anything and hasn't been able to stay healthy. Jones has. How can you possibly say Jones isn't worth more than JD because he strikes out! Hes 100X better than JD. And about JD's value, yea he has more potential, but he has always been an injury risk and has never put together a great season. And guess what, he isn't doing much better than Nixon right now, is he. My point is, I'd much rather have Trot for this year and then go after Andrew Jones. Jones is far better than Drew. I don't like being stuck with him for 5 years and $14 million when he is just going to decline with age.[/quote']

 

Up to both points in their career, Andruw Jones has been the better player?

 

I'll give you a chance to retract that statement.

 

In fact, I'll let you retract your entire paragraph, because this is the most contradictory, inane statement I've read.

[TedWilliams101]

You guys obviously don't do your research. You are 100% wrong. Jones has actually struck almost exactly the same amount as JD Drew per at-bat. Believe it or not, if you did your research you would have realized this. Here are the stats.

 

JD Drew has had 3306 at bats and 716 strike outs. Crunch the numbers and that equals a strike out every 4.6 at-bats. Now Andrew Jones has had 6010 at-bats and 1310 strike outs. That means a strike out every 4.6 at-bats. What you guys failed to realize is that in the 3 season JD Drew managed to play more than 130 games, he struck out 100+ times. There goes that argument. And just to give you some insite, Manny Ramirez has averaged a strike out every 4.5. Strike out rates are overated.

 

I can see your next argument coming. You lost the strike out, so now your going to try to connect it to DP. Yes Andrew Jones has grounded into more DP per atbat than JD Drew, but its a bit misleading. If you really want to base your argument on that, then I guess Manny Ramirez really sucks, because Manny has grounded into a DP every 33.8 atbats, Andrew Jones once every 40.8 atbats.

 

If you just look at the stats, Jones has been better. Period. Right now Jones and JD Drew have the exact same career SLG at .503. I have already stated that they strike out about the same frequency. Drew holds the higher OBP and BA, granted Jones .345 OBP ain't to shabby. JD holds a slightly higher OPS, .894:848. Jones has 9 gold gloves, JD none. Jones hasn't ever been on the DL and has played at least 153 games each season. He has actually put together great season after season and has been consistant. Thats what is really important. Consistancy, and Jones has been consistant, JD hasn't.

 

Potential is an overrated and overused term. The reality is, Drew has had 9 season to reach his potential, but hasn't. He is 31 and still hasn't reached his potential. On top of that, Drew has a high Potential for injuries. Yes, you can use potential for the negatives too, most of you guys just ignore that. The fact is, Jones has year in year out played to his potential and is consistantly one of the top OF offensively and defensively.

 

And I have already states how poorly Drew has done in the playoffs. In 7 series, 27 games, Drew has posted a .233BA, .320OBP, .349SLG, 3HR, 6 RBI, 11BB. Thats aweful.

Jones, however, in 17 series, 75 games, has posted a .273BA, .364OBP, .433SLG, 10HR, 33RBI, 34BB. Much better numbers. Also, in case you didn't notice, that means Jones posted a higher BA and OBP in the playoffs than his career numbers. That kinda seems "clutch" to those who love that word, ya?

 

Just look at their stats. I've put up charts on Jones and Drews career numbers and career playoff stats. Just take a look. Its hard to ignore the fact that Jones has put up 11 years of great numbers while Drew hasn't. Thats fact.

 

Just check the stats I attached.

[schillingouttheks]

Except that you've totally gone off-track in your argument. We weren't comparing these two players. You were ready to make a bet that Trot Nixon will be just as valuable as Drew, and I called you on it. Now you're talking about Jones? WTF?

[CrespoBlows]

You guys obviously don't do your research. You are 100% wrong. Jones has actually struck almost exactly the same amount as JD Drew per at-bat. Believe it or not' date=' if you did your research you would have realized this. Here are the stats.[/quote']

 

Why do I care how many times that Andruw Jones has fanned? I'm a huge supporter of Wily Mo Pena, because of his power. I like Andruw Jones, as well. I'd prefer him to J.D Drew, (at Fenway) just not at his asking price.

 

Andruw Jones is going to get a massive contract. Probably in the Soriano range. I don't think that is a great bet.

 

 

JD Drew has had 3306 at bats and 716 strike outs. Crunch the numbers and that equals a strike out every 4.6 at-bats. Now Andrew Jones has had 6010 at-bats and 1310 strike outs. That means a strike out every 4.6 at-bats. What you guys failed to realize is that in the 3 season JD Drew managed to play more than 130 games, he struck out 100+ times. There goes that argument. And just to give you some insite, Manny Ramirez has averaged a strike out every 4.5. Strike out rates are overated.

 

Wow. I totally agree. What exactly are you disproving?

 

I can see your next argument coming. You lost the strike out, so now your going to try to connect it to DP. Yes Andrew Jones has grounded into more DP per atbat than JD Drew, but its a bit misleading. If you really want to base your argument on that, then I guess Manny Ramirez really sucks, because Manny has grounded into a DP every 33.8 atbats, Andrew Jones once every 40.8 atbats.

 

If you look at everyone of my 6,000 posts. I have never once complained about a player hitting into the double play that often. Why would I start here?

 

Nice try, Ms. Cleo, but get out of the mind reading business.

 

If you just look at the stats, Jones has been better. Period. Right now Jones and JD Drew have the exact same career SLG at .503. I have already stated that they strike out about the same frequency. Drew holds the higher OBP and BA, granted Jones .345 OBP ain't to shabby. JD holds a slightly higher OPS, .894:848.

 

 

I love it.

 

You claim that if you look at the stats, Jones is better, PERIOD Then in the same paragraph, you say that Drew is equal in slugging, and has a substantial edge in OBP.

 

Funny.

 

Jones has 9 gold gloves, JD none. Jones hasn't ever been on the DL and has played at least 153 games each season. He has actually put together great season after season and has been consistant. Thats what is really important. Consistancy, and Jones has been consistant, JD hasn't.

 

Derek Jeter has a gold glove, Raffy Palmerio got a gold glove for playing 28 games at 1B. They don't mean anything, and they certaintly aren't a great barometer of how well Jones is going to do from ages 31-40.

 

Potential is an overrated and overused term. The reality is, Drew has had 9 season to reach his potential, but hasn't. He is 31 and still hasn't reached his potential. On top of that, Drew has a high Potential for injuries. Yes, you can use potential for the negatives too, most of you guys just ignore that. The fact is, Jones has year in year out played to his potential and is consistantly one of the top OF offensively and defensively.

 

Is that why J.D. Drew has the edge on Jones in just about every offensive statistical category?

 

And I have already states how poorly Drew has done in the playoffs. In 7 series, 27 games, Drew has posted a .233BA, .320OBP, .349SLG, 3HR, 6 RBI, 11BB. Thats aweful.

Jones, however, in 17 series, 75 games, has posted a .273BA, .364OBP, .433SLG, 10HR, 33RBI, 34BB. Much better numbers. Also, in case you didn't notice, that means Jones posted a higher BA and OBP in the playoffs than his career numbers. That kinda seems "clutch" to those who love that word, ya?

 

If he was "clutch" he'd be more consistent in the playoffs. He wouldn't totally suck ass three postseasons in a row, and then play like an Immortal two in a row. I'm not really using this as an argument. It's ridiculous to use a freaking 27 game sample size to make a conjecture about how clutch J.D Drew is.

 

 

Just look at their stats. I've put up charts on Jones and Drews career numbers and career playoff stats. Just take a look. Its hard to ignore the fact that Jones has put up 11 years of great numbers while Drew hasn't. Thats fact.

 

Just check the stats I attached.

 

I see an edge in OBP, OPS, a tie in OPS, an edge in BA.

 

 

Why would you post these? They completely go against your points.

 

Player 1 EQA - .303

Player 2 EQA - .284

 

Player 1 OPS+ - 131

Player 2 OPS+ - 115

 

Player 1 is David Jonathan Drew.

 

Player 2 played for the Netherlands National team.

[ksushi]

Jones is a .260 hitter that K's A LOT. Look what he did when he was here in the last braves series. Against Kason, Donnelly and Papelbon he went 0-5 with 5 k's. He is hitting very close to the mendoza line right now, and this is about how he will age. He isn't going to age gracefully. Like we did with Damon, the Braves are going to show Jones the door at the end of the year. Their payroll should increase with new ownership and they could probably afford him, but I bet that they make one or two low ball offers and leave him alone. Guys who strike out as much as he does don't age too gracefully, and hes getting up there in age. Even though he is still great, he has lost a step in the field. He was never a complete hitter either, career .260 hitter with a .340 OBP. He has only hit .300 once in his career and his career high in OBP is .366 which is about average...

 

Jones isn't going to be worth the money he is going to command. Drew is a better fit for this team. Career .280 hitter and .391 OBP. Sees a lot of pitches and when he is on the field he is a much much better player than Trot Nixon. We have language in the contract that lets us out of the deal if his shoulder acts up, and if he spends too much time on the DL. So, basically, as long as JD is healthy, he is worth the money. He is going to find his way at the plate eventually. 2-4 yesterday with a key RBI. If he gets hot, and Manny gets hot, we're unstoppable. No one will be complaining about Drew when they see what kind of team we can be if he starts producing like he has in the past.

 

Our lineup has a ton of balance, the only weak spot right now is him... maybe crisp, and lugo, but even lugo has 29 RBI, which is great for a lead off man. Manny is heating up, if what drew did last night is a sign of him starting to heat up, we're in for quite a show. We're getting Beckett back, and that will stabalize our pitching. So goes the Ace, so goes the staff... if those two start raking and our rotation keeps being awesome, we're going to have 60 wins by the all-star break.