RIP 2007 Yankees

[BSN07]

I wont count the Yankees out unless were 8 games up with 7 games left in the season...

[jacksonianmarch]

Dumbfounded as well, the poor pitching has spread like a cancer to their greatness which is that f***ing all-star lineup

 

About Beckett, I dont want them to rush him forward to his next game. Theyre holding an 8 game lead, offense is really clicking, the rest of the rotation is holding their own and the bullpen has been steady as ever. I can sit alright if they need to call up a kid for 1 or 2 starts. As long as this is occuring now, not during the stretch... the Sox are ok

 

they are just not putting it together. Since the sox game where Igawa came in (if you consider him the starter essentially) our starters have a 3.39ERA. That is over a span of 15 games. And if you remove Igawa, who is no longer in the rotation, the ERA drops to 2.92 over 13 games with the rotation averaging 6.2IP per start. Our SP is there. The offense or the pen, the two strengths of this team, are letting us down.

[ryanromine]

The End is Near Check out this article by Buster Olney

[jacksonianmarch]

that is from 5 days ago. And as we all know, the ESPN analysts are told what to write anyway. This came out last yr and the yr before.

[ryanromine]

I am by no means counting them out of anything, I wouldn't go as far as saying that they wont go on a tear, but the way things look thus far (2 months of the season almost finished) there needs to be some sort of upheaval within the organization for this team to catch fire! I mean this is an all-star team and there is no chemistry in this team. They look like they don't have fun when they're out there on the field and in the dugout!

 

All I am saying is that there needs to be some sort of change!

[ANiMAL]

I wouldn't consider counting them out until after the trade deadline, because the Yankees can aquire any player at anytime until then.

[Gom]

Gom is a pathetic fan. I still rooted hard for the sox in 04' date=' when we were 10 games back. I don't think the Yankees are done, it will be hard for them if the sox pitching continues to dominate.[/quote']

 

You are a moron. I don't stop rooting for my team, I'm just a realist. The Yankees have no pop in their bats minus Arod, who's come down to earth, the bullpen is worse than advertised, and the Sox have been all-world. After that game on Mother's Day, it just seems like the Red Sox's year.

 

I am starting the Fire Cashman AND Torre thread now, lol.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am by no means counting them out of anything, I wouldn't go as far as saying that they wont go on a tear, but the way things look thus far (2 months of the season almost finished) there needs to be some sort of upheaval within the organization for this team to catch fire! I mean this is an all-star team and there is no chemistry in this team. They look like they don't have fun when they're out there on the field and in the dugout!

 

All I am saying is that there needs to be some sort of change!

 

it isnt chemistry. They are wildly inconsistent.

 

Lets take a look at something here. The sox offense right now is the MLB leader in runs scored. They lead in AVG, OBP and OPS as well. But look at the players.

 

Ortiz- 1.046 OPS, he could theoretically continue that all season

Lowell- .925OPS, completely dominating right now, will likely fall back into the .800 range.

Youkilis- .890OPS almost entirely AVG and OBP driven. His average will fall as will his OPS.

Varitek- .799OPS he could feasibly continue that.

 

So you have 2 overperformers, 2 right about where they should be. And then...

 

Manny- .757OPS this will come up

Drew- .714OPS this will come up

Lugo- .710OPS this could continue

Pedroia- .715OPS this could continue

Crisp- .600OPS who knows

 

You guys have 3 hitters over .800OPS, 2 hitters between .750 and .800 and 4 hitters under .750 in your everyday lineup. Yet you lead the league in runs, AVG, OBP, and OPS. But what is really killing teams is your ability to drive in the runs. You lead the league with a .299 BAw/RISP, so you make your baserunners count. AND a .298 BAw/RISP and 2 outs AND the 2nd best AVG in the AL in close and late situations. Your team is hitting well as a team aggregate wise with 2 guys wildly overperforming, 2 guys wildly underperforming and the rest of the team (sans Ortiz) in the .700 range. If you ability to make the most out of your baserunners continues, you wont be beaten.

 

But what makes the sox so dangerous is that right now they are finishing. Something the yankees have had trouble doing the past 3 seasons to begin the yr. You guys close better than anyone. And not just because you have a rotation that goes very deep and a closer that scares the bejesus out of the other teams. But because your pitching will keep a tight lead and then your offense will step on the throat and put the game away. We started doing that last yr right about mid May and the rest is history. If you continue to do this, we wont have a shot. Your pitching has been fantastic, but lately, your hitting has been very solid and is the reason why you are so far ahead. If that offense didnt awake from its slumber w/RISP and in clutch time, we'd be talking about a 3 or 4 game lead, something that would be a whole lot more tenuous.

[BSN07]

I think GOM is using reverse psychology on us LOL

[jacksonianmarch]

I am not one to sit here and say the 07 season is over. Hell, a lot of things are going wrong. BUT.

 

The rotation is rounding into form with Wang healthy, Pettitte pitching very well, and Mussina returning strong since the hammy healed. Rasner is a solid #5 guy, but is a BP drain and DeSalvo is on fire right now. With Clemens taking over for Rasner and Hughes taking DeSalvo's spot, the rotation should continue to pitch very well.

 

The lineups underachieving significantly, but when you have 8 all stars in the lineup, all either slightly past, slightly before, or in their prime, you know it will turn on.

 

The bullpen has Mo at the end, which once he gets his head on straight will be fine.

 

Unfortunately, we are wildly inconsistent. We get a great pitched game and O doesnt hit. The O gets us runs and the starters suck. The O and the SP are hot and the pen blows it. It will work out. And for those who subscribe to the "all you gotta do is get to the playoffs theory" we are only 5 games back in the loss column to the Guardians for the WC. The only other team I see contending in the wildcard is the White Sox, but both the CWS and CLE teams are terribly flawed and are far inferior overall to the yankees. Give it time.

[CrespoBlows]

I am by no means counting them out of anything, I wouldn't go as far as saying that they wont go on a tear, but the way things look thus far (2 months of the season almost finished) there needs to be some sort of upheaval within the organization for this team to catch fire! I mean this is an all-star team and there is no chemistry in this team. They look like they don't have fun when they're out there on the field and in the dugout!

 

All I am saying is that there needs to be some sort of change!

 

Shut up about team chemistry. You could put Kevin Millar in that clubhouse, so they love each other, but they aren't going to win any more baseball games.

 

They have NO pitching, that is why they are losing.

[rician blast]

I saw an article about the 1978 season and was curious about how each team performed over the course of the remarkable comeback by the Yankees that year.

 

On July 18th the Yankees were 47-42...on Sept 10th they were 85-56. Over that stretch the Yankees were 38-14, a .731 winning percentage. Talk about hot. Meanwhile the Sox were 2 games under .500 (25-27) over that stretch. I'd submit that it was more the Yankees incredible run that was responsible for the comeback as opposed to a Sox "choke".

 

Let's also not forget that the Red Sox won their last 8 games to force the playoff game and ended with a 99-63 record prior to the playoff game loss.

 

By the way, the writer claimed the Yankees won the game on Dent's homer....forgetting, apparently, that Jackson's blast to centerfield provided the ultimate margin of victory.

[Gom]

So you are basic history that is 29 years old as a premise as to what will happen this year.

 

Exactly who was playing in 1978 that will have an impact today?

 

Can the Yankees rebound? Of course they can. Will they? Highly unlikely.

[CrespoBlows]

The rotation is rounding into form with Wang healthy, Pettitte pitching very well, and Mussina returning strong since the hammy healed. Rasner is a solid #5 guy, but is a BP drain and DeSalvo is on fire right now. With Clemens taking over for Rasner and Hughes taking DeSalvo's spot, the rotation should continue to pitch very well.

 

Neither of them are viable fifth starter candiates. They don't miss enough bats. Right now, they are lucky. You can't have a .33 K/BB ratio and expect to succeed. It's possible he could get a Shawn Chacon lucky season, but the odds are against that.

 

His BABIP is .212. That is incredibly lucky. You can bet that number is going to come upward.

 

Rasner is not a fifth starter candiate either. His WHIP is over 1.40, and it will probably stay there. He doesn't have major league stuff, either.

 

The lineups underachieving significantly, but when you have 8 all stars in the lineup, all either slightly past, slightly before, or in their prime, you know it will turn on.

 

I don't see why people are complaining about the offense. They have scored 200 runs, which I think puts them at 2nd in MLB.

 

The bullpen has Mo at the end, which once he gets his head on straight will be fine.

 

His head is fine. His cutter and velocity are not.

 

Unfortunately, we are wildly inconsistent. We get a great pitched game and O doesnt hit. The O gets us runs and the starters suck. The O and the SP are hot and the pen blows it. It will work out. And for those who subscribe to the "all you gotta do is get to the playoffs theory" we are only 5 games back in the loss column to the Guardians for the WC. The only other team I see contending in the wildcard is the White Sox, but both the CWS and CLE teams are terribly flawed and are far inferior overall to the yankees. Give it time.

 

They Yankees aren't 8.5 games worse then the Red Sox. Probably about 5 wins worse. That margin needs to stay here, otherwise Clemens won't make a difference.

[jacksonianmarch]

Neither of them are viable fifth starter candiates. They don't miss enough bats. Right now, they are lucky. You can't have a .33 K/BB ratio and expect to succeed. It's possible he could get a Shawn Chacon lucky season, but the odds are against that.

 

BABIP is ********. Lets start out by saying that. Pitchers can pitch to weak contact. But you are right about one thing. WHIP is not ******** and Rasner, who has been effective, is allowing way too many baserunners. His luck will run out sooner or later. DeSalvo is a guy who may also be lucky, but I like his arsenal. He throws 7 pitches, and a deep arsenal like that makes him tougher to gauge. Granted, the only pitch that is plus in that bunch is his changeup. If you want to make a good argument about DeSalvo, you can point to his fly balls and say that he is not overpowering and allows the ball to be lifted a lot. That means that he will be prone to the homer. I think long term, DeSalvo could be a rotation candidate, but unless Rasner stops allowing baserunners at an alarming clip, his role will most likely be in the pen.

 

I don't see why people are complaining about the offense. They have scored 200 runs, which I think puts them at 2nd in MLB.

 

We have shown that we are an all or nothing offense to this point. We can hang 15 on you but can also lay low for 3 games. And we are way too susceptible to lefty soft tossers. They own us.

 

His head is fine. His cutter and velocity are not.

 

obviously you havent watched too many games. Mariano is throwing harder than I have seen him throw in yrs. His last appearance in Seattle, he was sitting 93-95 and he reached as high as 96. His issue is location completely. The only cause for concern is that he seems to be trying to reinvent himself and has gotten away from the cutter 2/3 - 3/4 of the time. Now he is spotting away with 4 seamers against lefties and in with 2 seamers against righties and seems to be trying to save the cutter for jams or as a K pitch. He still has it, he should use it more. Why would a guy who is a perennial CY candidate reinvent himself when he still has the speed and the movement on his one amazing pitch. But to say that his velocity or his cutter is an issue is not correct.

 

 

They Yankees aren't 8.5 games worse then the Red Sox. Probably about 5 wins worse. That margin needs to stay here, otherwise Clemens won't make a difference.

 

At 8.5 games, you guys have a commanding lead. Like in yrs past when we have trailed, we need to chip off 2-3 games per month starting now. We get you guys next week for 3 games as well. If May ends with a double digit deficit, engrave the plaques now, you will have won the east.

[Gom]

Has it occurred to any Yankee fans that there is just as much, if not more, of a chance of the Yankees getting swept than the other way around when Boston comes to town?

 

Look, a Yankee sweep makes this a race. Anything else is just a waste.

[CrespoBlows]

BABIP is ********. Lets start out by saying that. Pitchers can pitch to weak contact.

 

True, but you would agree that there is some luck involved with every ground ball? Matt DeSalvo does not belong in the category of the pitchers who can induce weak contact.

 

 

 

 

obviously you havent watched too many games. Mariano is throwing harder than I have seen him throw in yrs. His last appearance in Seattle, he was sitting 93-95 and he reached as high as 96.

 

Must be a juiced radar gun. I've seen Rivera at 92-94 mph, which is when he is more hittable. That cutter doesn't have the bite it used to have, either. I think he's still a 2.50 ERA to 3.00 ERA closer, but not the dominant guy he used to be.

 

His issue is location completely. The only cause for concern is that he seems to be trying to reinvent himself and has gotten away from the cutter 2/3 - 3/4 of the time. Now he is spotting away with 4 seamers against lefties and in with 2 seamers against righties and seems to be trying to save the cutter for jams or as a K pitch. He still has it, he should use it more. Why would a guy who is a perennial CY candidate reinvent himself when he still has the speed and the movement on his one amazing pitch. But to say that his velocity or his cutter is an issue is not correct.

 

Because he's getting hit when he throws it?

 

 

At 8.5 games, you guys have a commanding lead. Like in yrs past when we have trailed, we need to chip off 2-3 games per month starting now. We get you guys next week for 3 games as well. If May ends with a double digit deficit, engrave the plaques now, you will have won the east.

 

I still have the Yankees winning the Wild Card. They will catch up to the Central teams when the pitching is healthy. Cash just has to make a move for a reliever, and they are a serious contender.

[jacksonianmarch]

DeSalvo keeps you off balance. Thats about it. That is why I think he has fringe back of the rotation potential. Rasner, who knows.

 

Also, Mariano's cutter isnt really getting hit Crespo. The homer by Beltre was a 4 seamer. The cutters that have gotten hit really havent been hit all that hard. Crisp's triple was a groundball that should have been played if Minky wasnt so far off the line. Vtek's hit was a broken bat bloop. Cora's too. His cutter isnt getting smashed. The pitches that are getting hit hard are the 4 seamer and 2 seamer. The one thing about Mo that I have noticed over the yrs is that he has perfected throwing the ball up. But his location when he tries to spot down is not all that fantastic. So when he tries to locate a pitch that is pretty foreign to him to a spot that he doesnt normally throw it to, he misses his spot. That 4 seamer has been all over the place. I'd say junk it, go back to what he did last yr with the cutter and the 2 seamer and see if he can work in an offspeed pitch in bullpens as a show me.

[Gom]

No one is a bigger fan of Mariano than me. However, all players get old and lose it. His time as an elite closer is over. One day, Ortiz won't turn on the inside fastball, Jeter won't be able to inside out the fastball, etc. It has started for Rivera.

[TheKilo]

Let's also be real, the starts that Rasner and DeSalvo have looked real good in are against the Seattle Mariners, who have guys in their lineup who would think WMP is a patient hitter.

 

If they ever faced teams that worked the counts, they'd be Igawa redux most times.

[Gom]

I agree Kilo. Sadly, I agree.

[jacksonianmarch]

Let's also be real, the starts that Rasner and DeSalvo have looked real good in are against the Seattle Mariners, who have guys in their lineup who would think WMP is a patient hitter.

 

If they ever faced teams that worked the counts, they'd be Igawa redux most times.

 

DeSalvo yes. Rasner has actually looked pretty good against more than one team. Most notably Oakland and Cleveland. The only funny thing about it is Torre has no faith in the guy and pulled him after 4.1IP of 1ER ball against the Guardians.

 

But as I said before his WHIP will determine his effectiveness. In the 3 games that the yankees won in which he pitched, his WHIP is right around 1. In the 2 games the yankees lost when he pitched, his WHIP was well over 2.

[TheKilo]

DeSalvo yes. Rasner has actually looked pretty good against more than one team. Most notably Oakland and Cleveland. The only funny thing about it is Torre has no faith in the guy and pulled him after 4.1IP of 1ER ball against the Guardians.

 

But as I said before his WHIP will determine his effectiveness. In the 3 games that the yankees won in which he pitched, his WHIP is right around 1. In the 2 games the yankees lost when he pitched, his WHIP was well over 2.

 

So wait, if he allows more baserunners chances are they'll lose?

 

Wow. Shocker.

[jacksonianmarch]

So wait, if he allows more baserunners chances are they'll lose?

 

Wow. Shocker.

 

I know it is so f***ing insightful, but the point is, he isnt a Chacon. Chacon loaded baserunners even in the games he pitched well in. Rasner has days when he finds the zone and is pretty damn good, and days where he doesnt and gets smashed. Sounds like a perfectly good 5th starter if you ask me.

[Mr Crunchy]

albert desalvo,the original boston strangler,will not be confused with the other boston strangler,andrew toney.

 

rasner desalvo aaron small bobby boogaloo chacon and these other assorted s*** bags theyve trotted out over the past few years are our version of jj johnson,kason gabbard and lenny dinardo

 

theres no substitution for pitching depth and this is reason #1 why ny is looking up

[Gom]

Dammit...my taunt of the Red Sox having the highest payroll in baseball history and not making the playoffs will be over after one season of using it.

 

Yankees suck. I love 'em, but they suck.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Also' date=' Mariano's cutter isnt really getting hit Crespo. The homer by Beltre was a 4 seamer. The cutters that have gotten hit really havent been hit all that hard. [/quote']

 

Cutter, 2-seamer, 4-seam.....all the guy does is throw fastballs. The variation between the three is the amount of velocity he was always able to put behind it. The more velocity with those pitches...the better the movement. What you are seeing from Rivera is a guy who is not locating because he no longer has that velocity. Does he still have good velocity? Sure, but not the kind that would break bats on a consistant basis.

 

What am I getting at....if you see a fastball from Rivera with limited movement and misses its location...I will say with almost 100% certainty it was a poorly executed cutter that was mistaken for a mis-located 4 seamer.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cutter, 2-seamer, 4-seam.....all the guy does is throw fastballs. The variation between the three is the amount of velocity he was always able to put behind it. The more velocity with those pitches...the better the movement. What you are seeing from Rivera is a guy who is not locating because he no longer has that velocity. Does he still have good velocity? Sure, but not the kind that would break bats on a consistant basis.

 

What am I getting at....if you see a fastball from Rivera with limited movement and misses its location...I will say with almost 100% certainty it was a poorly executed cutter that was mistaken for a mis-located 4 seamer.

 

the bolded statement is absolutely not true. When you see the closeup of his pitches, you can tell if it is a cutter or a 4 seamer based solely on spin. And when they show the slow mo's of the 4 seamers, you can tell they are 4 seamers. And I wouldnt expect a pitcher of Mo's calibre to throw a 100% straight cutter because he is losing it. If his cutter was losing it, it would cut a little less, but it would still cut.

[schillingouttheks]

Oh, hey Jacko, how have the past few days been?

[jacksonianmarch]

Oh' date=' hey Jacko, how have the past few days been?[/quote']

 

intoxicating.