ROCKET LANDS IN THE BRONX

[schillingouttheks]

Okay, so when the Yankees spent money, they won the division? Yeah, that was basically my point.

 

I think it was a good move to sign Clemens. It solidifies your rotation very much, and it will win you games.

 

Psssst...it was a little premature to say something like "it's not okay when you're under .500" considering the Yankees are always under .500 at this point of the season. I have a feeling that them spending money will be "okay" in your book when all is said and done this year.

[Gom]

Gom' date=' come on. Get over it. The fact that you can't stick around here when the Yanks are sucking has nothing to do with the past, and everything to do with your status as a member here.[/quote']

 

Dude, I was still here, posting about how much I hate Joe Torre. However, with your team kicking our assess all over the joint, I got nothing to say. Unlike a lot of your members here [and, you, friend, are not one of them], I am not disillusioned. My team sucks, and your team is better than mine. The standings speak for themselves. However, most sensible fans realize that the Sox are not a .667 team, and that we are not a below .500 team, at least over the course of the season. We are better than that, and you are not as good as your record.

 

Plus, I'm compiling all the posts of all the people who are writing us off, and when we win the division, I will put them in a post for all of you. Just as a reminder to never count us out.

[Cocos Disciples]

Psssst...it was a little premature to say something like "it's not okay when you're under .500" considering the Yankees are always under .500 at this point of the season. I have a feeling that them spending money will be "okay" in your book when all is said and done this year.

 

Of course they will be over .500 at the end of the season. I'm trying to enjoy it now.

[Cocos Disciples]

Plus, I'm compiling all the posts of all the people who are writing us off, and when we win the division, I will put them in a post for all of you. Just as a reminder to never count us out.

 

Good call. That would be a huge post. If it happens, of course. Should be a great race.

[Gom]

Of course they will be over .500 at the end of the season. I'm trying to enjoy it now.

 

That's what makes this so great.

[schillingouttheks]

Dude' date=' I was still here, posting about how much I hate Joe Torre. However, with your team kicking our assess all over the joint, I got nothing to say. Unlike a lot of your members here [and, you, friend, are not one of them'], I am not disillusioned. My team sucks, and your team is better than mine. The standings speak for themselves. However, most sensible fans realize that the Sox are not a .667 team, and that we are not a below .500 team, at least over the course of the season. We are better than that, and you are not as good as your record.

 

Plus, I'm compiling all the posts of all the people who are writing us off, and when we win the division, I will put them in a post for all of you. Just as a reminder to never count us out.

 

Haha, okay. We'll see. I know you're a much better team than a .500 team. And it's highly unlikely that the Sox are a .667 team (unless they're that team that seldom goes 108-54)...

 

I do think, however, that we are evenly matched. It'll go down to the wire this year. But, I think the Sox are a lot better than you think they are. We're already 10 games over .500 and I really don't think we're going to play .500 baseball from here on out and finish in 3rd place (which is what would need to happen for your prediction to hold steady). Do you really believe that'll happen?

[a700hitter]

Letting the Yankees get Clemens was a mistake. The FO made a costly mistake. Period.

[ORS]

However' date=' with your team kicking our assess all over the joint, I got nothing to say.[/quote']

And herein lies my problem with you, Gom. There's plenty to say. However, there's not much room for s*** talking, which is what you are really here for, so you disappear when there's no arrow in the quiver.

[schillingouttheks]

I love your metaphors.

[the mann]

So what? Clemens is the 'ace' now? This is a guy who is 45 years old who couldn't be bothered to be ready to pitch by MAY. Now you're going to pay him more than Alex Rodriguez to come and save the staff? Yeah, how has that overpaying for *******s worked out in the past? Good luck with that one. I'll keep Daisuke, Beckett and Schilling, thanks.

 

The last time the Sox saw Clemens he was walking off the mound in the 2003 ALCS game 7, down by 4 runs with 2 on and nobody out looking old and tired. Then he played in the offensively innept NL Central and you all expect him to come back and carry your team to the next level? Ha!

 

I dont know if he is going to be an "ace" in the AL East, but he will help a lot.

2004: 145 ERA+

2005: 221 ERA+

2006: 196 ERA+

[Beckett95]

I dont think the Sox were that interested in Clemens if they only offered him 18 million. They had to have known the yankees were going to be in the 20+million range

[TedWilliams101]

How did the sox make a mistaka letting him go to NY? The contract seems to be around $28 million. They WAY overpaid him. We would have had to offer at least that much and the sox dont need him. He's 44 and will give them 21 starts AT BEST. If the sox had signed him for $30 million, every sox fan would be pissed we spent that much on him and the Yankees would laugh at us and claim the only way we could win was to block the Yankees from getting him (Ironic it would be). But that didnt happen and for good reason. I hope him well in the Bronx (or so I have to say) and hope the sox crush him every start. But I don't think it will be enough to get the Yankees to the playoffs this year.

[CrespoBlows]

Letting the Yankees get Clemens was a mistake. The FO made a costly mistake. Period.

 

Do you really think the Red Sox should have gone $30 million for Clemens?

[arbitrary]

Honestly, the Sox not signing Clemens is what I like about the Sox. The fact that the Yankees signed Clemens, Damon, etc... (all the big & dramatic signings) is what makes them the Yankees.

 

This is why the Dice-k signing was so damned exciting and interesting. Every once in a while when the Sox do something to beat the Yankees it's SO GOD DAMNED EXCITING.

 

Even if Roger beats the Sox for the next 5 million years and strikes out 4 trillion sox at bats, I wouldn't wish the sox to sign Roger instead of the yanks. 'Cause then I'd be just like a Yankee fan.

 

To know true happiness is to experience heartbreak, some say.

 

 

EDIT: sorry if that was trite.

[yankeessuck013]

For a pro rated 28 million you can have him. The Sox offered 18 pro rated so as a Sox fan I can't say they didn't give him a serious offer. The Yanks will get a little better but to really contend that bullpen has to lock it up. Everbody knows what you get with Clemens in the AL, 8-10 wins and a 4+ ERA going 6 innings a start. Last year I would have been as pumped as Yankee fans today b/c we really were desperate for a starter (as the Yanks are now) but this year it just would have been nice to see him come full circle and finish up wearing th #21 again. Our pitching is doing its job so I could really care less we didn't sign him.

[TheKilo]

Like the one you had for 86 years? Call me what you want, in my book, you're a loser, like your team has been for 89 years with one exception.

 

Say what you want about the Yankees, it's been said before. At least they get a return on their investment. I would probably say that in the history of professional sports in this country, considering the amount of money and resources available, that the Red Sox are one of the, if not the worst run organizations historically.

 

Is that troll enough for you moron?

 

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Your posts are high comedy.

[a700hitter]

Do you really think the Red Sox should have gone $30 million for Clemens?

They should have met the Yankees offer. It was a mistake not to do so.

[CrespoBlows]

They should have met the Yankees offer. It was a mistake not to do so.

 

$28 million for a six inning pitcher? I can't justify that price. It's also likely we would have surpassed the Yankees offer in order to reel him in.

 

Last year, Clemens was actually at 5.96 IP/S. I don't see that number going up with the DH. He happens to find himself in the AL East, where the other four offenses are very, very good.

 

The Yankees smoked our offer. They f***ing raped it. He would have gotten about $8 to $9 million in Boston. He's probably going to get $20 million in New York.

 

The Red Sox should definitely go get an upgrade for Tavarez, but $20 million for a fifth starter? I'll take a chance that Lester comes close for $300,000, and I'll invest the other $19,000,000 in someone like A-Rod.

[example1]

They should have met the Yankees offer. It was a mistake not to do so.

 

Bah. He's not worth it. He can't even be bothered to be in shape here in May, needing a few more weeks to get ready. He KNEW there would be 3 teams offering 15+ million for his services this season, but he isn't ready now. Why do the Red Sox owe Clemens anything at this point? They made a legitimate run at him but Clemens wanted to play in NYY with Pettitte. Screw it. It wasn't going to happen and we're not going to second guess the sox for kicking the pants off of NYY's offer for Matsuzaka but not matching in on Clemens. If they had Matsuzaka they wouldn't NEED Clemens...

 

No big deal, other than it will make it more fun to watch Clemens get knocked around by Manny and Ortiz and Co.

[Gom]

We spent $50M to plant a Red Sox flag in Asia, to expand our market, to have Red Sox games televised over there, to sell Red Sox paraphernalia; to make a friggin' INVESTMENT. The $50M goes way farther than you would like to believe it does. It's essentially the same thing as upgrading Fenway Park, but instead of doing so, we expanded our mark on the world map. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. We could make that $50M back in no time.

 

So when the Yankees signed Matsui, that was suppsoed to the gateway to the East for the Yankees. What about the Mariners with Ichiro? I don't buy it. Sounds nice, but its a posting thing. Whoever wins it, and we both have, claims they new market is the investment. I didn't buy it when we did, and I don't when you won Matsuzaka.

Wait, so your Yankees are paying Clemens $6.5M per MONTH, and you have the audacity to bring up your skewed Matsuzaka argument?

Your money is off, but yes. It's the same thing.

And as far as your signing a player...I don't care. If you have the resources, go for it. I don't disagree with you there.

This is why I think you are the sharpest person on this board. It's not even close. You actually get it.

 

Look, I will be real upfront here. I don't care that my team has more resources than anyone else. I actually like it. I don't care that my team has the highest payroll in baseball, or that they can afford to buy the best players, or throw money at the problems they have, or can sign busts and fix them by spending more money. I put my money into the team by buying three season tickets every year. So in essence, I support their free spending ways. Baseball's system isn't fair. Agreed. No questions or qualms about it from my end. Baseball is a business, owned by business men who make a killing, financially, by owning these teams. They have a right to run their business as they see fit.

 

However, these arguments run hollow from you guys. You get up in arms about this when the big, bad Yankees outspend your team. Get over it. You do it to every other team in baseball except for us. You think the Blue Jays and their fans don't bitch about it? They beat you guys last year, then you go and spend over $200 million to upgrade three positions in Mats, Lugo, and Drew. You think the Twins, Tigers, etc., don't bitch that their teams can't compete with the Red Sox financially? They have a legitimate gripe. You don't.

 

Stop dishing out this crap about payroll, etc. You guys are just as guilty. This offseason finally proved that your team can compete with us from a financial standpoint if you really wanted it. Henry is just as rich as George, maybe even richer. The Yankees make more, they spend more. That's life. The Sox make more than anyone else except for us. Guess what? You spend more than everyone else, except for us. See the pattern?

 

You know something else too? I'll tell you something most Yankee fans won't admit to, but I would guess they agree with me. I don't care about payroll. I never did. I don't care about how much they spend. It doesn't bother me. Although Matsuzaka hasn't pitched all that well, I wish the Yankees bid $55 million for him so we could have got him instead of you. I'm glad we signed Roger Clemens, and I don't care what the contract is. I wanted Barry Zito too. If they raise ticket prices, I don't care. I would rather pay $5 bucks a seat more, or whatever, to see them win, rather than lose and save it.

 

Be honest here. How many of you guys were upset when you lost Damon for the extra cash he signed with us?

 

How many of you guys would shell out, lets say $100, for 2004? Imagine if 2004 never happened for your team unless every Sox fan threw in $100 bucks. Would you do it? To feel the joy of they greatest comeback in post-season series history, and to do it to your hated rivals? My guess is 99% of you guys would.

 

I'm glad we have an owner who wants to win more than anything else. I'm glad he was willing to spend the money on Clemens, and whoever they may get at the All-Star break, if they need it.

 

We're the worst. Fine, I'll accept that. You guys are second worst. 28 teams bitch about you. 29 bitch about us.

 

Fair? Only football has any semblance of fair with their hard cap. Not the NHL, not the NBA with their exceptions and their soft cap, etc.

 

When you talk about payroll parity, it's kind of ridiculous to say that you wish the Yankees would come down to earth, so to speak. What about everyone else? Do you really want to see all teams with a hard cap in baseball? I know some of you would like that, but I think the great majority of you really don't. You have an advantage over 29 teams, and a disadvantage against one. The odds are stacked in your favor over everyone else but us. Baseball, with seven different champs in seven years, seems to get it right.

 

Is it fair that you can go out and sign a pitcher who's never pitched in America for $103 million, which is more than the payroll for all but 3 or 4 teams, one who's untested and unproven, or for us to sign a 45 year old pitcher for 28 million prorated, when the Twins can't keep the best pitcher on the planet for less than that annually? Better yet, if it meant Santana going to the Red Sox, would you care? Is there a Sox fan on this board who would complain if you signed Santana, and the only reason you got him was because the Twins couldn't afford him?

 

Ask yourself one question, and be honest with your answers. Deep down inside, when it comes to your beloved Sox, do you really care about your team's payroll? After all, it's not your money. You may wish for a better allocation of your team's funds, but do you really care? Do you want them to turn a profit rather than throw the money into the team? Would it make you feel that much better to have the Epstein announce "We may have only won 84 games this year, missed out on the post-season again, but we turned a profit of 86% over last year"?

 

The truth is, we are the two biggest and baddest bullies in baseball, financially. I like it that way. Would you like to be even with the other 28 teams?

 

I'll at least be honest and say absolutely not. If you agree with me, which I believe most of you do, it's time to put this money/payroll thing to bed.

[riverside sluggers]

They should have met the Yankees offer. It was a mistake not to do so.

 

Um whose to say they knew what the Yankees' offer was?

 

Umm...you are talking about the post-season where he out dueled Schilling in game 7 in Arizona? You guys give Schilling this god like status, he went 1-1 against Jon Lieber, I believe. Wake up.

 

Game 7, Yankees vs. Red Sox ALCS.

 

Who do you take Schilling or Clemens? Obviously, the Yankee hitting is better, so dismiss that. Who would you rather see pitching for YOUR team.

 

 

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it. Its Schilling 10 times out of 10 I'll take out ther in game 7. His post season stats are out of this world. Yes the Sox will finish in 3rd place somehow. That top rotation is all a mirage. Schilling will get hurt, Wakefield will get hurt, Beckett will rever to 5+ ERA and homerun king, ditto for Matsuzaka, and 5th starter spot will be carousel of Kyle Snyders. Also disregard the s***** bullpen (2nd best ERA when its 7th inning or later)

[BSN07]

I kind of figured he end up in NY. I thought Houston might make a run at him but ive always said Boston was the 3rd horse in this 3 horse race. Theres no telling what you will get from him only time will tell and to bicker and fight with each other at this point is pointless. For the NYY fans I agree he cant be any worse then what youve been sending out there lately. But honestly I take Matsuzaka for 6 yrs at whatever it is 50M+ over Clemens at 1 yr 30M. I know its pro rated.

 

GOM, you know me I like your post but to bring up Schilling being 1-1 against Lieber is a reach. Santanna lost to Zito in the PO, but I still take Santanna 10/10. Wasnt the 1 loss to lieber the game were he really fd his ankle up?

 

With Clemens you get someone who might give you 6 innings, only time will tell. Its an improvment def from a quality stand point. But for the Yankees in all honesty to have a shot the need Wang and Moose to stay healthy. You also need somone to beable to get deeper into games and at this point you don't have that. Pettitte,Moose, and Clemens are all 6inning guys at this point in time(subject to change, not saying they wont eventually go deeper), Hughes is a 5-6 inning guy anymore then this and you will burn him up quick, hes to young to have to go 175 innings+. And as for your 5th guy I'm not even sure who that is at this point, but looking at all of that your BP is going to be in for a lot of work this summer, and this is were having all these old pitchers might come back to haunt you.

 

Im not saying the Yankees wont be in contention, to do so is ignorant, but they do seem to have more ? this year then normal, if anything this should make for some good baseball, so lets all get along and sit back and enjoy!

[BoSox21]

I'm just gonna point out that Clemens didn't pitch past the 6th inning in any game past August last year and that's when his season started in late June. I'm gonna be very interested in seeing how he's doing come August/September

[ryanromine]

We all knew this was coming, despite how much we wanted to see him back in a Sox uni! Yes the starting rotation is going to get a huge burst, but the bullpen needs some more help! Come late in the season we'll see what will happen!

[a700hitter]

$28 million for a six inning pitcher? I can't justify that price. It's also likely we would have surpassed the Yankees offer in order to reel him in.

It was prorated at the rate of $28 million. He will be getting $18 million.

 

The Red Sox should definitely go get an upgrade for Tavarez' date=' but $20 million for a fifth starter? I'll take a chance that Lester comes close for $300,000, and I'll invest the other $19,000,000 in someone like A-Rod.[/quote']Neither of these guys should be mentioned in the same sentence with Clemens. Shame on you. Again, as with Damon, this is a double blow. We didn't improve ourselves, and the Yankees improved themselves significantly.

[a700hitter]

Um whose to say they knew what the Yankees' offer was?

Um, you ask the agent what it will take to get him. It's not a sealed bid. The agent is trying to get his client the best deal, so the way it usually works is that the agent goes to the competitors and says we have an offer of X from team y. What do you have to offer?

[BoSox21]

It was prorated at the rate of $28 million. He will be getting $18 million.

 

Neither of these guys should be mentioned in the same sentence with Clemens. Shame on you. Again, as with Damon, this is a double blow. We didn't improve ourselves, and the Yankees improved themselves significantly.

 

who's to say the Red Sox even had a shot at Clemens? A couple of people have brought up the point that he was just using the Red Sox as leverage towards getting a larger deal and it makes sense.

 

Besides, is there a price the Yankees weren't gonna wind up paying? Its not as easy as saying if John Henry told the Hendricks brothers that they would pay $29 mil pro-rated, he'd be wearing a Sox cap today

[a700hitter]

who's to say the Red Sox even had a shot at Clemens? A couple of people have brought up the point that he was just using the Red Sox as leverage towards getting a larger deal and it makes sense.

 

Besides, is there a price the Yankees weren't gonna wind up paying? Its not as easy as saying if John Henry told the Hendricks brothers that they would pay $29 mil pro-rated, he'd be wearing a Sox cap today

We'll have to see what the Red Sox offered. Of course the FO will spin and coverup and talk in circles, so we may never know. Fact is they lost out to the Yankees on a very important piece of the puzzle. They are both very large market rich teams. Cashman ate our lunch.

[BoSox21]

from what I've read, they offered him $18 million pro-rated and were expecting to continue negotiations soon but got a courtesy call yesterday from one of the Hendricks brothers saying Clemens has decided to sign elsewhere. a few hours later, he had his little dog and pony show at the stadium

 

All I know is all along, Clemens was gonna sign with New York if the money was right and when it comes to New York, when isn't the money right?

 

Look, the jury is still very much out as to whether this is a good signing. People were pissed when the Sox were outbid by New York for Carl Pavano too...

[ryanromine]

So when the Yankees signed Matsui, that was suppsoed to the gateway to the East for the Yankees. What about the Mariners with Ichiro? I don't buy it. Sounds nice, but its a posting thing. Whoever wins it, and we both have, claims they new market is the investment. I didn't buy it when we did, and I don't when you won Matsuzaka.

 

Your money is off, but yes. It's the same thing.

 

This is why I think you are the sharpest person on this board. It's not even close. You actually get it.

 

Look, I will be real upfront here. I don't care that my team has more resources than anyone else. I actually like it. I don't care that my team has the highest payroll in baseball, or that they can afford to buy the best players, or throw money at the problems they have, or can sign busts and fix them by spending more money. I put my money into the team by buying three season tickets every year. So in essence, I support their free spending ways. Baseball's system isn't fair. Agreed. No questions or qualms about it from my end. Baseball is a business, owned by business men who make a killing, financially, by owning these teams. They have a right to run their business as they see fit.

 

However, these arguments run hollow from you guys. You get up in arms about this when the big, bad Yankees outspend your team. Get over it. You do it to every other team in baseball except for us. You think the Blue Jays and their fans don't bitch about it? They beat you guys last year, then you go and spend over $200 million to upgrade three positions in Mats, Lugo, and Drew. You think the Twins, Tigers, etc., don't bitch that their teams can't compete with the Red Sox financially? They have a legitimate gripe. You don't.

 

Stop dishing out this crap about payroll, etc. You guys are just as guilty. This offseason finally proved that your team can compete with us from a financial standpoint if you really wanted it. Henry is just as rich as George, maybe even richer. The Yankees make more, they spend more. That's life. The Sox make more than anyone else except for us. Guess what? You spend more than everyone else, except for us. See the pattern?

 

You know something else too? I'll tell you something most Yankee fans won't admit to, but I would guess they agree with me. I don't care about payroll. I never did. I don't care about how much they spend. It doesn't bother me. Although Matsuzaka hasn't pitched all that well, I wish the Yankees bid $55 million for him so we could have got him instead of you. I'm glad we signed Roger Clemens, and I don't care what the contract is. I wanted Barry Zito too. If they raise ticket prices, I don't care. I would rather pay $5 bucks a seat more, or whatever, to see them win, rather than lose and save it.

 

Be honest here. How many of you guys were upset when you lost Damon for the extra cash he signed with us?

 

How many of you guys would shell out, lets say $100, for 2004? Imagine if 2004 never happened for your team unless every Sox fan threw in $100 bucks. Would you do it? To feel the joy of they greatest comeback in post-season series history, and to do it to your hated rivals? My guess is 99% of you guys would.

 

I'm glad we have an owner who wants to win more than anything else. I'm glad he was willing to spend the money on Clemens, and whoever they may get at the All-Star break, if they need it.

 

We're the worst. Fine, I'll accept that. You guys are second worst. 28 teams bitch about you. 29 bitch about us.

 

Fair? Only football has any semblance of fair with their hard cap. Not the NHL, not the NBA with their exceptions and their soft cap, etc.

 

When you talk about payroll parity, it's kind of ridiculous to say that you wish the Yankees would come down to earth, so to speak. What about everyone else? Do you really want to see all teams with a hard cap in baseball? I know some of you would like that, but I think the great majority of you really don't. You have an advantage over 29 teams, and a disadvantage against one. The odds are stacked in your favor over everyone else but us. Baseball, with seven different champs in seven years, seems to get it right.

 

Is it fair that you can go out and sign a pitcher who's never pitched in America for $103 million, which is more than the payroll for all but 3 or 4 teams, one who's untested and unproven, or for us to sign a 45 year old pitcher for 28 million prorated, when the Twins can't keep the best pitcher on the planet for less than that annually? Better yet, if it meant Santana going to the Red Sox, would you care? Is there a Sox fan on this board who would complain if you signed Santana, and the only reason you got him was because the Twins couldn't afford him?

 

Ask yourself one question, and be honest with your answers. Deep down inside, when it comes to your beloved Sox, do you really care about your team's payroll? After all, it's not your money. You may wish for a better allocation of your team's funds, but do you really care? Do you want them to turn a profit rather than throw the money into the team? Would it make you feel that much better to have the Epstein announce "We may have only won 84 games this year, missed out on the post-season again, but we turned a profit of 86% over last year"?

 

The truth is, we are the two biggest and baddest bullies in baseball, financially. I like it that way. Would you like to be even with the other 28 teams?

 

I'll at least be honest and say absolutely not. If you agree with me, which I believe most of you do, it's time to put this money/payroll thing to bed.

 

I would have to agree with this, but having the biggest payroll and being in the largest markets doesn't mean you will win championships. The Yanks have won 26 a majority of course before the Steinbrenner era! You can be the best team that money can buy and be an All-Star team and still lose championships. For example 2001 and 2003. They D-Backs and Marlins are part of the 28 teams you were talking about and they showed us all how being a solid team and not just an all-star team how you can beat the unbeatable. Like David and Goliath (sorry for the biblical reference).

 

All I am saying is that the money/ payroll deal just means you have a better chance of getting those big name players, but doesn't mean you will win the WS