2007 Yankee Game Thread

[a700hitter]

Why would I care what a bookmaker thinks? You're not convincing me that signing Roger Clemens to a $28 million contract was a good investment. You didn't do it back in May, and you're certaintly not doing a better job, now.

 

We should be discussing whether Clemens' 3.20 ERA is worth $28 million, not whether he's better than Julian Tavarez minus the salaries.

If you bet on games you would care who won, not who was the better relevative value. BTW the whole point of the game is about winning in case you forgot.

[redsoxrules]

A700hitter for the second time ..who is the better pitcher here?

 

 

pitcher A

 

ERA+ - 80

WHIP - 1.48

ERA - 5.32

FB Velocity - 87 mph

 

pitcher B

 

ERA+ - 97

WHIP - 1.38

ERA - 4.60

FB Velocity - 92 mph

[CrespoBlows]

If you agree with me' date=' I guess you must be arguing just for the sake of arguing. That's pathetic.[/quote']

 

Where do I say I agree with you? I think it's hillarious that you're touting that Roger Clemens is better than Julian Tavarez.

 

That's like the Texas Rangers justifying signing Vicente Padilla by claiming he's better than Kevin Millwood

 

It is a banal concept...not original at all, which is why it is surprising that you can't wrap your head around it.

 

Says the guy who thinks $28 million doesn't affect a budget that much.

 

You have an odd way of expressing your agreement.

 

You sir, are an idiot.

[redsoxrules]

If you bet on games you would care who won' date=' not who was the better relevative value. BTW the whole point of the game is about winning in case you forgot.[/quote']

 

 

yes winning is the point of the game and 1 for 4 stinks

[CrespoBlows]

If you bet on games you would care who won' date=' not who was the better relevative value. BTW the whole point of the game is about winning in case you forgot.[/quote']

 

Relative value?

 

Buchholtz - 80.1 IP 53 H 16 ER 19 BB 101 K's

 

Guys with these numbers tend to succeed in the bigs, especially those that have three plus pitches. Clemens? You can't even say he has one.

[a700hitter]

He's got a 5.32 ERA. This isn't Houston' date=' where he was completely dominating. He's a big part of the problem, too.[/quote']

I am sure that Torre and Yankee fans would rather rest their hopes with the likes of Clippard, DeSalvo, Wright, Bean, Karstens, or Igawa.

[CrespoBlows]

I am sure that Torre and Yankee fans would rather rest their hopes with the likes of Clippard' date=' DeSalvo, Wright, Bean, Karstens, or Igawa.[/quote']

 

Could have made a move for a fifth starter, who would have been 100 X cheaper, and slightly better.

[a700hitter]

Where do I say I agree with you? I think it's hillarious that you're touting that Roger Clemens is better than Julian Tavarez.

 

That's like the Texas Rangers justifying signing Vicente Padilla by claiming he's better than Kevin Millwood

I never attempted to justify the Yankees signing. Here's my statement. "Clemens is a better pitcher today than Tavarez, Gabbard, Hansack, Lester and Bucholz." Don't read anything else into it. I am not justifying any one signing anyone. I am not comparing values or making budget decisions. I am just telling you who is the better major leaguer today. Try to follow this simple concept.

[a700hitter]

Could have made a move for a fifth starter' date=' who would have been 100 X cheaper, and slightly better.[/quote']Yes they could have, but that doesn't mean that Clemens isn't an upgrade over those guys.

[redsoxrules]

I never attempted to justify the Yankees signing. Here's my statement. "Clemens is a better pitcher today than Tavarez' date=' Gabbard, Hansack, Lester and Bucholz." Don't read anything else into it. I am not justifying any one signing anyone. I am not comparing values or making budget decisions. I am just telling you who is the better major leaguer today. Try to follow this simple concept.[/quote']

 

so stats mean nothing? so just because his name is clemens he's better than anyone? holy f*** then,the mets are gonna be pretty dam good when pedro comes back cause he's the best

 

and btw why the f*** wont you answer my post about who's better , pitcher A or B

[a700hitter]

so stats mean nothing? so just because his name is clemens he's better than anyone? holy f*** then' date='the mets are gonna be pretty dam good when pedro comes back cause he's the best[/quote']Did I mention any stats in my post? No, I didn't even use the word stats.

[redsoxrules]

Did I mention any stats in my post? No' date=' I didn't even use the word stats.[/quote']

 

no im bringing up because tavarez has better stats then the rocket and you keep saying he's better.. stats tell the story not the f***ing name

[redsoxrules]

I bet you that if clemens finishes the year with an ERA over 6 you're still gona be saying the same f***ing crap

[a700hitter]

Where do I say I agree with you? I think it's hillarious that you're touting that Roger Clemens is better than Julian Tavarez.

 

Here's where:

 

Again' date=' you resort to saying Clemens is better than Tavarez. Good for Roger Clemens. [/quote']

[CrespoBlows]

I never attempted to justify the Yankees signing.

 

What?

 

Your justification of signing Clemens was, "Who cares about the money, you would feel better if Roger Clemens took the ball in Game four rather than Gabbard, Hansack, or Tavarez."

 

 

 

 

"Clemens is a better pitcher today than "Gabbard, Hansack, and Lester" Don't read anything else into it.

 

I agree with that.

 

Buchholz and Tavarez

 

I disagree with this.

 

Buchholz has shown that he can command the strike zone with three quality pitches. Based on his numbers, he has dominated the minor league levels at every stop. Pitchers with his kind of arsenal, and his numbers have very good track records of success in the major leagues.

 

 

I am not justifying any one signing anyone.

I am not comparing values or making budget decisions. I am just telling you who is the better major leaguer today. Try to follow this simple concept.

 

OK, I have shown that I agree with you in some areas of your point, but disagree about two other pitchers.

 

I think we are done here.

[CrespoBlows]

Here's where:

 

Sarcasm.

[a700hitter]

no im bringing up because tavarez has better stats then the rocket and you keep saying he's better.. stats tell the story not the f***ing name

So, you will sum up Roger Clemens' abilities based on 23 innings. Is that a very valid measure?

[CrespoBlows]

So' date=' you will sum up Roger Clemens' abilities based on 23 innings. Is that a very valid measure?[/quote']

 

Dimished fastball, dimished secondary stuff, lack of ability to eat innings, moving to a more difficult league.

 

Stuff like that.

[redsoxrules]

So' date=' you will sum up Roger Clemens' abilities based on 23 innings. Is that a very valid measure?[/quote']

 

oh what was I thinking roger is gonna come back strong and finish the year with an ERA under 4

[a700hitter]

I bet you that if clemens finishes the year with an ERA over 6 you're still gona be saying the same f***ing crap

First of all, I don't know if anyone would be happier than me if that whore bombs out and finishes with a 6+ ERA. I'd be chuckling all through the winter, but I'll bet you it doesn't happen.

[a700hitter]

Dimished fastball, dimished secondary stuff, lack of ability to eat innings, moving to a more difficult league.

 

Stuff like that.

...and even the diminished Clemens is better than Tavarez, Hansack, Gabbard, Lester, and Bucholz... as of today just to be clear so you don't bother to post about the latter two's potential futures. If they were better than Clemens, they'd be in the majors.

[CrespoBlows]

...and even the diminished Clemens is better than Tavarez' date=' Hansack, Gabbard, Lester, and Bucholz... as of today just to be clear so you don't bother to post about the latter two's potential futures. [/quote']

 

Right now, a dimished Clemens is well below league average. Right now, Julian Tavarez is slightly below league average, and better than Roger Clemens.

 

If they were better than Clemens, they'd be in the majors.

 

You can't possibly think it's that black and white.

[a700hitter]

Right now' date=' a dimished Clemens is well below league average. Right now, Julian Tavarez is slightly below league average, and better than Roger Clemens.[/quote']Right now JT's 2007 stats are better than Clemen's stats, but he is not the better pitcher. You can't possibly think it is as black and white as 23 innings of stats?

You can't possibly think it's that black and white.

If Clemens is not a better ML pitcher than those other guys, why would our owners offer him $12 million to start pitching in July? I guess they are just stupid.

[ARod2212]

In the game against Baltimore, he topped at 90 mph once. He was sitting between 86 and 89 mph.

 

Was Clemens a good investment for $28 million? This is why I didn't want him. I'd rather take that money, and go get Mark Buerhle, Javier Vazquez, etc..

 

He's got a 5.32 ERA. This isn't Houston, where he was completely dominating. He's a big part of the problem, too.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this. I don't care about investments. If we were going to get Vasquez (why?) or Buerhle, it would not at all be precluded by signing Clemens. He cost us money. No prospects or draft picks, just money. If we go and say we want to trade for Buerhle, Clemens does not stop us from doing that.

 

Our problems have stemmed from the fact that Damon, Abreu, Cano, Matsui, Cabrera, and 1st base cannot hit. If he gives up 4 runs per start we should still win.

[redsoxrules]

actually yes it was pretty stupid for the sox FO to try and pay that much for him

[CrespoBlows]

If we were going to get Vasquez (why?)

 

Vazquez - 98 IP 86 H 43 ER 26 BB 93 K's 3.95 ERA

 

Salary - $11 million

 

Our problems have stemmed from the fact that Damon, Abreu, Cano, Matsui, Cabrera, and 1st base cannot hit. If he gives up 4 runs per start we should still win.

 

The team is 3rd in RS this year.

[redsoxrules]

 

Our problems have stemmed from the fact that Damon, Abreu, Cano, Matsui, Cabrera, and 1st base cannot hit. If he gives up 4 runs per start we should still win.

 

do you realize clemens only pitches 6 IP per start , so if he gives up 4 runs per starts thats a 6 ERA

[CrespoBlows]

Right now JT's 2007 stats are better than Clemen's stats' date=' but he is not the better pitcher. You can't possibly think it is as black and white as 23 innings of stats?[/quote']

 

That coupled with those other points I made, make me believe that Clemens is not going to be a great bet going foward.

 

If Clemens is not a better ML pitcher than those other guys, why would our owners offer him $12 million to start pitching in July? I guess they are just stupid.

 

$12 million is not $28 million.

[a700hitter]

That coupled with those other points I made' date=' make me believe that Clemens is not going to be a great bet going foward.[/quote']He's a better bet to outperform the others.

$12 million is not $28 million.

This banal response is non responsive. Why would our owners offer him anything if we had better pitchers in the organization to take the 5th slot? Stupidity? Sentimentality? What?

[a700hitter]

actually yes it was pretty stupid for the sox FO to try and pay that much for him

How much should they have offered him?