Disappointed in the Front Office

[Mr Crunchy]

im not a theo guy

i do like the fact that he spends their money and i do like the way hes brought in some real quality young arms

im of the mind that pitching depth wins baseball games

the worst team wins 60

the best loses 60,the difference is the stoppers ala clemens when he was here

petey schill etc,over there theyve had mussina,never the best,always steady

when you trot out 5 decent men in a row you cannot go into season crushing losing streaks

when you have questions or injuries is when you drop 8of 10 and the entire team gets into a funk

 

last year i feel the season was put in perspective when becks had toronto by the short hairs then lost a 4-5 run lead in the 8th

the next day lenny dinardo gets the ball against halliday

blam

instead of assuring yourself a win on the road and a good shot at taking the series you show up sunday trying to avoid a sweep with a destroyed bullpen

depth dont mean 10 all stars

it means you have the strenght to lose a wakefield or a beckett for a month without the season being lost

we may have that now if lester comes back strong

we may not if schill wake breakdown and matsusaka and becks are inconsistant

 

never ever ever enuff arms as far as im concerned and this maybe why i wake up screaming wily mo penas name at 430am once a week

 

the key to the yankees for a long time was that ********** ramiro mendoza

spot start for you and give you 6 solid

middle relief and will keep you in the game,set up guy,you name it he did it

 

we need a guy like that as wakefield cant be expected to do it anylonger

[jacksonianmarch]

im not a theo guy

i do like the fact that he spends their money and i do like the way hes brought in some real quality young arms

im of the mind that pitching depth wins baseball games

the worst team wins 60

the best loses 60,the difference is the stoppers ala clemens when he was here

petey schill etc,over there theyve had mussina,never the best,always steady

when you trot out 5 decent men in a row you cannot go into season crushing losing streaks

when you have questions or injuries is when you drop 8of 10 and the entire team gets into a funk

 

last year i feel the season was put in perspective when becks had toronto by the short hairs then lost a 4-5 run lead in the 8th

the next day lenny dinardo gets the ball against halliday

blam

instead of assuring yourself a win on the road and a good shot at taking the series you show up sunday trying to avoid a sweep with a destroyed bullpen

depth dont mean 10 all stars

it means you have the strenght to lose a wakefield or a beckett for a month without the season being lost

we may have that now if lester comes back strong

we may not if schill wake breakdown and matsusaka and becks are inconsistant

 

never ever ever enuff arms as far as im concerned and this maybe why i wake up screaming wily mo penas name at 430am once a week

 

or you just like dreaming about caramel colored latin men. Frickin perv.

[Mr Crunchy]

eventually we will hook up for a ballgame

i will have chris play you the message i left him during game 3 when the yanks beat us 19-8 and i was home drinking my nono's 50 year old skunk piss grappa and cleaning the guns just in case i had to end the misery or the yankee fan up the streets house...

never mind carmel men

i had visions of aparicio falling down rounding 3rd base

bill lees eephus pitch to perez...darryl johnson taking out willoughby for jim burton

mike torrez bucky dent and yaz popping out to both geronimo and nettles to end seasons

billy bucker as well as calvin schiraldi and johnny macs wives...darryl and al nipper

dennis boyd not getting the ball,aaron boone etc.....

 

i cannot tell you how good 04 was for my mental and physical health and it will sustain me for a long long time

[riverside sluggers]

haha.

 

I would think JD would be right around .270-.280 but the homers will drop with death valley in RF. The most important number will be 140. If he plays 140 games, he will be a solid acquisition.

 

Are you under the assumption that Drew pulls everything to right field? Drew's swing is known a lot of times to go towards center field and to the opposite field, hello green monster

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you under the assumption that Drew pulls everything to right field? Drew's swing is known a lot of times to go towards center field and to the opposite field' date=' hello green monster[/quote']

 

The gren monster does not help lefties. Most lefties with oppo swings hit the ball to left center, and left center is still 350 with a 30 foot fence. Fenway only helps pull hitting righties. Drew's power is to right field and center field. Check his hit tracker. His homers will fall unless he just goes on a monster tear.

[riverside sluggers]

Eh with a healthy season I can think he can still get in the 18-24 HR range, considerable bump from what Trot gave us the last 3 years

[jacksonianmarch]

Eh with a healthy season I can think he can still get in the 18-24 HR range' date=' considerable bump from what Trot gave us the last 3 years[/quote']

 

I can see that as well. He is typically a mid 20s HR guy. I think I predicted 15-18. His worth is not in his immense power though. He is a .400OBP guy who will have lots of ExBH. Like I said, if he stays on the field, he is a Brian Giles type player.

[Gom]

I have to disagree with the thread starter here. Your team got significantly better. I wish they didn't, but I can't argue with what your front office has accomplished this year.

[Soxfan1]

Soxfan' date=' how about a name for that someone that is keeping Lester's spot warm? In the little bit I've seen in ST, Matsuzaka has better stuff and control than anyone who was available in the FA market. I have a feeling they've been scouting this guy for a long time and knew this about him well before any of us ever heard of him (and I remember hearing about him in '04). They bid so high because they didn't want to risk losing him, not because they didn't want him in NY.[/quote']

You're an avid baseball fan. You can't honestly tell me that you're going to read a player on how he does in ST. When the regular season starts, the media is going to be on DiceK's ass 24/7 unless he pitches near perfect.

[ORS]

Soxfan, read what I posted. I did not mention his stats. I'm talking about the quality of his pitches. And, I don't get the reference to the media. Is the amount of media scruntiny he's going to get the reason you don't like the move? Come on. These are the Sox. No matter who they get, two things are going to happen. One, they are going to cost a lot of money because they go after the best players available. Two, there will be tons of media scrutiny.

 

I'm still waiting for the alternative pitcher, and I'm still waiting for a reason that this was a mistake that makes sense.

[Soxfan1]

You don't think a pitcher does worse when he has the media on his ass.

 

For examples, Schmidt and Zito are some good names. Signing them wouls also have saved us enough money to afford a decent closer which would keep Paps in the rotation. the combination of Paps and Schmidt/Zito is easily better then having Matz on our staff.

[riverside sluggers]

Matsuzaka has had hordes of media & photographers follow him around since he was in high school, thats over 8 years now. The kid has ice in his veins

 

Zito in Fenway Park, in the AL East?

[example1]

You don't think a pitcher does worse when he has the media on his ass.

 

For examples, Schmidt and Zito are some good names. Signing them wouls also have saved us enough money to afford a decent closer which would keep Paps in the rotation. the combination of Paps and Schmidt/Zito is easily better then having Matz on our staff.

 

 

You're kidding, right? I'm willing to bet state right now that matsuzaka will finish in the top 5 in Cy Young voting this season and will make the AS team.

[ORS]

You don't think a pitcher does worse when he has the media on his ass.

Again, and I'm trying to be nice here because I think you are a nice kid, name one player that wasn't under the microscope when he came to Boston.

 

For examples, Schmidt and Zito are some good names. Signing them wouls also have saved us enough money to afford a decent closer which would keep Paps in the rotation. the combination of Paps and Schmidt/Zito is easily better then having Matz on our staff.

Schmidt and Zito are about the same as Matsuzaka in terms of AAV. This notion of yours just doesn't match the reality of the situation.

[EvilDonut]

You're kidding' date=' right? I'm willing to bet state right now that matsuzaka will finish in the top 5 in Cy Young voting this season and will make the AS team.[/quote']

 

I agree with you. Why do/did so many people think Mats is/was going to flop? Maybe it's died down now that his stuff has been shown and disected. I fully expect 16+ wins and a low to mid 3 ERA.

[Soxfan1]

Matsuzaka has had hordes of media & photographers follow him around since he was in high school, thats over 8 years now. The kid has ice in his veins

 

Zito in Fenway Park, in the AL East?

Not like the Boston Media.

 

Zito has spent his career in the AL West as far as I know. He has been part of the big 3 over there, has 3 all star selections and has a Cy Young under his belt, not to mention i've heard he is a media favorite. He could make it in the AL East.

 

Schmidt is 1-0 with an 8 inning outing against the Yanks.

 

You're kidding' date=' right? I'm willing to bet state right now that matsuzaka will finish in the top 5 in Cy Young voting this season and will make the AS team.[/quote']

I'll come back to this when he does not.

 

Again, and I'm trying to be nice here because I think you are a nice kid, name one player that wasn't under the microscope when he came to Boston.

 

 

Schmidt and Zito are about the same as Matsuzaka in terms of AAV. This notion of yours just doesn't match the reality of the situation.

 

Excuse me, but what does AAV mean?

[ORS]

AAV is the annual average value of the contract.

[riverside sluggers]

Zito's a flyball pitcher and his HR rate has been steadily increasing, and he pitched in the spacious McAfee Coliseum. He'd easily give up 30+ HRs in the AL East & having Fenway Park as his home. And yea Id be dreading his 4+ starts a year against New York.

 

But eh believe what you want, Matsuzaka will be no better than a 4th starter or even worse

[Mr Crunchy]

that was the bug with zito

ny owned his ass so why drop insane coin on a guy who cant beat ny??

i felt the same about martinez at the end

he couldnt beat ny no matter what...was it a head thing or was it the old familiarity breeding contempt....19 games a year xs 7 years and the playoffs and the scouting and the film etc....

 

nobody knows what dice k will do,we can speculate all we want

come july after hes had 3 months of this media circle jerk on his ass he may snap a carrot

or he may get a charge of strength from it

we dont know

has their ever been this much noise made over a man who i think they have penciled in as a 3rd starter??

[Plumpamania]

Zito's a flyball pitcher and his HR rate has been steadily increasing, and he pitched in the spacious McAfee Coliseum. He'd easily give up 30+ HRs in the AL East & having Fenway Park as his home. And yea Id be dreading his 4+ starts a year against New York.

 

But eh believe what you want, Matsuzaka will be no better than a 4th starter or even worse

 

Kinda funny how much attention this thread has gotten after I was pounded on. However, I totally agree on Zito. Not to mention his K numbers are down, and his BB numbers are up. He's Kei Igawa with a better curve ball. After Air Beckett last year, the last I want is Trans Zito Airlines.

 

And Jason Schmidt, I'm not sold on, as someone mentioned previously. His velocity is way down.

[Plumpamania]

I disagree with most everything you said. You said that last season was a "Theo"-like offseason. That was the offseason which the sox traded Andy Marte (who we acquired from Atlanta for Renteria) for Coco Crisp. I know Crisp had injuries' date=' but Renteria had a tremendous year. We got Crisp because we let Johnny Damon go, who had a career year in New York. Either way, the Sox came out on the losing end in both trading for Coco and letting Damon go.[/quote'][/b]

 

And before last year Coco Crisp was projected at age 26, to do better than Johnny Damon and had steadily increased his OBP every year. PETCOA, last year, had him projected at age 29 to do a .280/.380/.525 with 25 HR. I'd do that trade every day.

 

The Sox also that season traded Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell. A year later, Ramirez is one of the top shortstops in the NL and is expected to keep growing. Sanchez threw a no hitter and looks like a potential top of the rotation starter. The sox on the other hand, got a 5+ era from Beckett and a good year from Mike Lowell.

 

Hanley Ramirez, while a 5 tool talent, was in trouble consistently in the minor leagues. He never posted a 'wow' season, and only achieved as far as AA for us. Even though he was only age 22 (I believe) when we traded him, and he had 3 more years to figure things out while still under prospect age status, I could live with dealing him since he hadn't produced like the front office thought he would have (for another i.e. of this please see Eric Duncan, Yankees). Sanchez was the Animal. But again, he didn't achieve anything higher than AA, and was projected as a #3 starter.

 

Josh Beckett projected to be a once in a generation type talent, and still does. Beckett is going into his age 27 season, and is coming off a transition, not only from Florida to Boston. But from the NL East to the AL East. No more easy K's from the pitchers' slot, rather welcoming in Jason Giambi to the plate. I'd still do that trade from where the players were. Beckett will rebound, and we still have to see Sanchez do it over a full season at the MLB level.

 

In addition, the Sox resigned catcher Jason Varitek and put a no trade close into his contract.

 

And made him the captain. While I knew we needed to keep Varitek with the team, a 4 year/$40 million, with a NTC put into his contract wasn't good. We all knew that Varitek was going into his age 34 season. We all knew that Varitek was likely to end up at 1B with Youkilis going back to 3B (sad corner power) once Lowell's contract was up. But there was a determination of who to keep and who to let walk. Varitek was more important to the team than say, Johnny Damon was.

 

So the offseason in which the Red Sox trade away their top prospect, acquire a guy in Crisp who is not great at getting on base, and sign an aging catcher to a 4 year deal with no trade clauses is an EPSTEIN-like offseason??? It's actually the complete opposite. And that might have something to do with the fact that HE WASN'T EVEN THE GM LAST OFFSEASON. And in the end, these moves lead the sox to finish in 3rd place in the AL East last season.

 

Are you blind to statistics? Crisp's OBP in 04 and 05 was .344 and .345 respectively. Yes Damon was at .380 and .366 those years, but he dipped down to .359 last year and that's a downward spire trend sir. Not to mention that Damon's arm is comparable to a three year old child. He resigned the Team Spirit in Varitek.

 

Yes he wasn't the technical GM of the Red Sox last off-season. However in case you have forgotten it was reported that he was giving advice to the Two Headed Monster all throughout the winter. I'd be willing to be my life savings that even without his name on the GM's door, he was calling every single shot that offseason.

 

And you think these moves resulted in a 3rd place last year, when we placed 3rd by 1 victory? How about injuries of 1 month or more to: Jon Lester, Tim Wakefield, Manny Ramirez, Jonathan Papelbon, Matt Clement, Coco Crisp, Trot Nixon, Wily Mo Pena, Jason Varitek, and other role players. We lost three fifths of a rotation last year. Are you that retarded to think that last offseason resulted in the third place?! NO! It resulted when the injuries were just to much to handle and the team fell out of first place after half a season. THAT'S WHY WE WERE IN THIRD.

 

Now what you're saying is that this offseason the Red Sox swayed away from Theo's original strategies as a GM.

 

Give me your home address, I'm going to order you Hooked on Phonics. I said they took Theo's original game plan, something he learned while picking Beane's brain while he spent time on the west coast. They took the Moneyball concept, the entire reason why Epstein was hired (remember Beane was 'hired' for a day and he backed out of it? Yea exactly). And then they went MFY style this offseason (I understand the market made it that way mostly). But look at the money differences spent on Kevin Millar, Bill Mueller and David Ortiz compared to Julio Lugo and JD Drew. Those are the differences in strategies that I'm talking about. Jerk.

 

They then make a number of bullpen moves, acquiring guys like Piniero, Okijima, and Donnelly.

 

You've yet to name anyone of significance in this statement by the way. You also forgot J.C. Romero.

 

So far, it looks like since that "Theo-like" offseason, the Red Sox have been making far more "Theo-like" moves then they had during the 2005/2006 offseason. Theo, as you said, wants good pitching, guys who get on base, and a strong farm system. Since he's been back, I'd say it's safe to say he's been trying to do that. I agree that the Red Sox overpaid Lugo and Drew and didn't improve the bullpen enough. But to say that this is not a "Theo-like" offseason is retarded.

 

The trade to get Marte for Renteria was pure genous. You can't say that Renteria bouncing back after his horrible 2005 was a sure thing. Then dealing Marte for Crisp...well I was mad at first. But looking at the improvements Crisp had made throughout that time period, and the projections from the experts it was a solid trade since Marte had yet to really produce anything in any MLB time.

 

If you think Epstein wasn't pulling the strings in the offseason heading into 2006 you're either A). Not that bright, . Stupid or my favorite C). Inbreed.

 

And again to call Lugo a significant upgrade is silly with a man who's never posted an .800 OPS.

[mosox]

I'm glad they finally got a lefty for the pen. I was disappointed last year when they didn't have one. When you play NY 19 times a year, there has to be a few times when a situational lefty needs to come in the game. I don't know why they've passed up on a guy like Scott Schoeneweis.

I'm glad they came to their senses on the Papelbon situation.

Two guys they should have paid for and kept are Cabrerra and Damon. The replacementts at SS and CF have been a disaster.

However, not giving in to Pedro's contract demands and not trading Manny are wise decisions.

Overall, I think this offseason went well and Dice K could be a gem. I like this team and I'm not among the disappointed.

[riverside sluggers]

Yep mosox this year they'll open the year with 2 lefties in the pen. J.C. Romero will do a decent job if he is just used to face lefties. And I believe Okajima will be one of the bright lights in the pen as he is known to be tough on both lefties & righties, expect a lot of Ks early on

 

They wont have to make a trade if one of them goes down or whatever because down in Pawtucket they'll have 2 lefty reliever (Breslow, Lopez)

[BSN07]

Not like the Boston Media.

 

Zito has spent his career in the AL West as far as I know. He has been part of the big 3 over there, has 3 all star selections and has a Cy Young under his belt, not to mention i've heard he is a media favorite. He could make it in the AL East.QUOTE]

 

 

 

 

Ya and all that media attention the Oakland A's have to deal with...

 

And the fact that he is horrible against the Yankees...

 

If Zito had come to the AL East either for NY or Boston he would have a 5+ ERA and be a #4 pitcher at best. Do you even look at this guys numbers over the last couple of seasons before you think we should have brought him here over Matsuzaka?

 

He went to the NL because he knew if he stayed in the AL he was going to get tuned up eventually... Look at the numbers, he doesn't fair too well against the better offensive teams in the AL, he had to get out why the getting was good.

[MANNYHOF24]

I disagree that Zito would be bad at Fenway, if you look at Zito's numbers at home last year he had an Era over 4.75 I think, and he had a an ERA under 3.00 on the road. David Wells is a similar pitcher to Zito, and in 2005 he was like 10-2 at fenway with a 3.20 ERA. I do think that DiceK is a better acqusition than Zito, but I think it is ridiculous to think he would fail at Fenway park.

[Gom]

 

Hanley Ramirez, while a 5 tool talent, was in trouble consistently in the minor leagues. He never posted a 'wow' season, and only achieved as far as AA for us. Even though he was only age 22 (I believe) when we traded him, and he had 3 more years to figure things out while still under prospect age status, I could live with dealing him since he hadn't produced like the front office thought he would have (for another i.e. of this please see Eric Duncan, Yankees). Sanchez was the Animal. But again, he didn't achieve anything higher than AA, and was projected as a #3 starter.

 

Josh Beckett projected to be a once in a generation type talent, and still does. Beckett is going into his age 27 season, and is coming off a transition, not only from Florida to Boston. But from the NL East to the AL East. No more easy K's from the pitchers' slot, rather welcoming in Jason Giambi to the plate. I'd still do that trade from where the players were. Beckett will rebound, and we still have to see Sanchez do it over a full season at the MLB level.

 

Your post was solid, but the Beckett trade could quite possibly be the worst trade your team has made since Sparky Lyle for David Cater. You would still do it? Amazing.

[ORS]

Your post was solid' date=' but the Beckett trade could quite possibly be the worst trade your team has made since Sparky Lyle for David Cater. You would still do it? Amazing.[/quote']

I know, if only Beckett hadn't retired after that one year, huh? It's looked bad thus far, but I think one year analysis is a bit premature. If what happened last year continues into the future, then you will be right. However, each of the guys invovled are young and still playing, so the book isn't written yet.

[riverside sluggers]

umm Gom maybe its just me but the worst trade since Sparky Lyle in 1972 was just maybe the Jeff Bagwell trade. Jeff Bagwell you know the sure thing to be in Hall of Fame?

 

The jury is still out on Beckett, he's 27 this year and theres still time to make his case that the Sox did right trading for him

[Gom]

I know' date=' if only Beckett hadn't retired after that one year, huh? It's looked bad thus far, but I think one year analysis is a bit premature. If what happened last year continues into the future, then you will be right. However, each of the guys invovled are young and still playing, so the book isn't written yet.[/quote']

 

Like I said, as of now. It's possible that Beckett turns it around and those guys end up being one year wonders. The trade looks bad now, but the jury is still completely out on this one. It seems like for once, we agree.

 

umm Gom maybe its just me but the worst trade since Sparky Lyle in 1972 was just maybe the Jeff Bagwell trade. Jeff Bagwell you know the sure thing to be in Hall of Fame?

 

The jury is still out on Beckett, he's 27 this year and theres still time to make his case that the Sox did right trading for him

 

I totally missed the boat on the Bagwell deal. My bad. You got me there.

[MANNYHOF24]

I saw a really interesting stat today. Beckett last year had 14 starts where he let up 2 runs or less, but he had 10 starts where he let up 5 runs or more. If he can control the bleeding a bit more this year he will be fine. All he has to do is cut down on his walks and HRs. He did do a better job of that in the second half last year, only 10 homeruns allowed.