Papelbon as possible closer

[seabeachfred]

If we're honest with ourselves we should agree on that part concerning Lester, but I keep thinking back to all the rotten breaks the Red Sox have had in their history since the Babe Ruth trade and just wonder if we shouldn't expect a few extra good breaks to start coming our way and evening things out a little more. A great recovery from Lester and a surprise contribution from him would really stimulate and rouse RSN. Why not think positive on that?

[a700hitter]

If we're honest with ourselves we should agree on that part concerning Lester' date=' but I keep thinking back to all the rotten breaks the Red Sox have had in their history since the Babe Ruth trade and just wonder if we shouldn't expect a few extra good breaks to start coming our way and evening things out a little more. A great recovery from Lester and a surprise contribution from him would really stimulate and rouse RSN. Why not think positive on that?[/quote']Fans like us can hope, but the guys running the business should not let hope enter the equation.

[jacksonianmarch]

agreed. Overwhelm hope with depth.

[seabeachfred]

Fans like us can hope' date=' but the guys running the business should not let hope enter the equation.[/quote']

 

Of course not 700 but a lot of positive thinking can go a long way with a club that has the mixture to put together an outstanding season. I think if we find a dependable closer we will have the ability to do that, but, again, you look at the history of this club and are taken back at all the rotten breaks it has gotten and you start to wonder when things will start evening out. This is a new century and why not go in there feeling that this is now our time and not somebody else's.

[seabeachfred]

agreed. Overwhelm hope with depth.

 

We have the depth this year Jacksonian, but what we need to find is a closer. We find such an animal and we can end your nine year AL East title streak. We don't and we have to battle like hell to win it and or go again for the WC.

[BSN07]

Jayson Stark thinks the Sox are the favorite in the East. I think our starting rotation has the higher upside( with about the same amount of question marks as NY), Our lineup is not as strong 1 threw 9 as NY but it's stronger then last year and has the chance to be a top 5 Offensive team. The only difference in the BP is MO, Proctor had a good season, but one good one doesn't automatically make you legit. Farnsworth is as un consistant as the come, Myers is a one bat wonder. So they have almost as many questions in the pen as we do. I think saying there the favorites has merit, only because I think having a better starting rotation is better then having a better line up.

 

But we will just have to sit back and watch as a new season settles all our questions for us... Man I love Baseball!LOL

[jacksonianmarch]

We have the depth this year Jacksonian' date=' but what we need to find is a closer. We find such an animal and we can end your nine year AL East title streak. We don't and we have to battle like hell to win it and or go again for the WC.[/quote']

 

You dont have a terribly large amount of pitching depth. Your rotational depth is entirely dependent on Lester regaining himself. And if you plan to rush him just like you did last yr, be my guest. After him, you have the WHIP machines of Tavares, Gabbard and Pauley, guys who allowed way too many baserunners. Your top 5 are stellar though, a very good compilation of talent who, if the balls bounce the right way, could be the best rotation in all of baseball.

 

The pen is the issue. I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but that pen is not good. The likelihood is your closer will be Pineiro. The guy has never closed before, but has shown a terrible trend recently. How can you take the guy with the AL's worst ERA in 2006 and hand him the ball in 2007 with 3 outs to go for a win on a nightly basis in Boston of all places? He wont last a month. Timlin is old and faded badly. Donnelly is the only quality guy you have out there, and he is trending downward as well. Romero was terrible last yr. Okajima is a ???. Tavarez was awful last yr too. You do have depth here, though. If the sox could get Hansen right, then they could have a nice BP ace of the future and Delcarmen is a solid talent as well.

 

So in all, the sox have bullpen depth, but depth is only useful when they are good. But the sox lack rotational depth. Just like last yr, Lester was the ace in the 6 hole sitting in Pawtucket and the sox ran through 11 or so starting pitchers.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jayson Stark thinks the Sox are the favorite in the East. I think our starting rotation has the higher upside( with about the same amount of question marks as NY), Our lineup is not as strong 1 threw 9 as NY but it's stronger then last year and has the chance to be a top 5 Offensive team. The only difference in the BP is MO, Proctor had a good season, but one good one doesn't automatically make you legit. Farnsworth is as un consistant as the come, Myers is a one bat wonder. So they have almost as many questions in the pen as we do. I think saying there the favorites has merit, only because I think having a better starting rotation is better then having a better line up.

 

But we will just have to sit back and watch as a new season settles all our questions for us... Man I love Baseball!LOL

 

The ESPN cronies love to pick against the yankees. When will they learn. The yankees will win the east going away, and will enter the playoffs as the favorites to win the WS. I think they are better equipped this yr than in yrs past for playoff runs, but the sox are better equipped for a short series. If I could get another Yankees-Sox ALCS, I may s*** myself in glee.

[ORS]

The ESPN cronies love to pick against the yankees. When will they learn. The yankees will win the east going away' date=' and will enter the playoffs as the favorites to win the WS. I think they are better equipped this yr than in yrs past for playoff runs, but the sox are better equipped for a short series. If I could get another Yankees-Sox ALCS, I may s*** myself in glee.[/quote']

And then there's the truth. Out of 19 baseball writers, 13 picked the Yankees last year, including Stark (and Gammons).

 

link

 

The part in bold is crow on the horizon. Fire's lit. Given the track record of your assertions, you might want to be in the market for bib.

[jacksonianmarch]

given the track record of the AL East over the past 9 yrs, I think I'll be fine.

 

And Gammons ALWAYS picks the yankees and then downgrades everything from their rotation to their offense to their bullpen to their prospects. Its his lone saving grace from being a complete homer.

[ORS]

Doesn't change the fact that you were flat out wrong in your statement (and hopefully your assertion - which the last 9 years have absolutely no bearing on).

[jacksonianmarch]

flat out wrong? How is that? The yankees will win the east by 5 or more games, my qualifications for "going away". They will do exactly what they do every yr. The sox will start out hot and fade.By August 1, the yankees will have the AL East lead, by Spet 1 they'll be counting down the magic number and by the end of the 3rd week of September, the champagne will be flowing.

 

The sox are the enigma, though. If they make the WC that states that the sox starters came together and pitched well. Which means they will have at least a very tough 3 maybe 4 starters in a playoff series. They will be tough to beat in a playoff series. But in the regular season? Nope, it will be same old, same old. WOWZAH!

[ORS]

flat out wrong? How is that? The yankees will win the east by 5 or more games, my qualifications for "going away". They will do exactly what they do every yr. The sox will start out hot and fade.By August 1, the yankees will have the AL East lead, by Spet 1 they'll be counting down the magic number and by the end of the 3rd week of September, the champagne will be flowing.

 

The sox are the enigma, though. If they make the WC that states that the sox starters came together and pitched well. Which means they will have at least a very tough 3 maybe 4 starters in a playoff series. They will be tough to beat in a playoff series. But in the regular season? Nope, it will be same old, same old. WOWZAH!

How can a prediction be wrong if the event hasn't happened? It can't, so I'm not calling your prediction, which is dripping with pinstriped optimism, wrong.

 

You said the ESPN cronies always pick against the Yankees. Wrong. 70% of them had the Yankees winning the AL East last year. You pulled a dingleberry from your ass and tried to pass it as fact.

[jacksonianmarch]

I said they "love" to pick against the yankees. I didnt say they always do and I didnt specify what they are picking.

[ORS]

I guess if you want to parse it like that, then go ahead. The message was pretty clear, and pretty incorrect. You know it.

[seabeachfred]

Jayson Stark thinks the Sox are the favorite in the East. I think our starting rotation has the higher upside( with about the same amount of question marks as NY), Our lineup is not as strong 1 threw 9 as NY but it's stronger then last year and has the chance to be a top 5 Offensive team. The only difference in the BP is MO, Proctor had a good season, but one good one doesn't automatically make you legit. Farnsworth is as un consistant as the come, Myers is a one bat wonder. So they have almost as many questions in the pen as we do. I think saying there the favorites has merit, only because I think having a better starting rotation is better then having a better line up.

 

But we will just have to sit back and watch as a new season settles all our questions for us... Man I love Baseball!LOL

 

Baseball is the greatest sport ever invented by man and it will be so centuries from now. Stark is a pretty astute baseball writer and has been as accurate or wrong about as much as anybody else who covers the sport so I am taking him with a grain of salt. We are most definately stronger than last year both in offense and pitching, especially in the bullpen, but because the Yankees have won the division nine years in a row they should be the favorite going into the season because they have done it many times before. Having said that, I think this will be the best chance we've had for upending them since they started running off their streak. The only thing that would throw a wrench in my thinking is if I see Joel Piniero trying to close games for us down at Fort Myers. Then I will know how task is not complete. I will gladly pull in my horns if this guy turns out to be the savior that Epstein thinks he's going to be, but in my opinion JP is a combo of fools gold and a cheap rhinestone.:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

[adam123]

the wankees will be good of course .. but the cant beat a team.. there a bunch of hight priced loosers ... every year ..rape the pirates ... than the just stick with old pitching let them have roger clemens .. hes old and on hgh .. his head is so big now ...

[Cocos Disciples]

So you're saying the Yankees will be good, but they can't beat a team. They will also rape the Pirates (who of course are not on their schedule).

 

You never cease to amaze me.

[seabeachfred]

You dont have a terribly large amount of pitching depth. Your rotational depth is entirely dependent on Lester regaining himself. And if you plan to rush him just like you did last yr, be my guest. After him, you have the WHIP machines of Tavares, Gabbard and Pauley, guys who allowed way too many baserunners. Your top 5 are stellar though, a very good compilation of talent who, if the balls bounce the right way, could be the best rotation in all of baseball.

 

The pen is the issue. I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but that pen is not good. The likelihood is your closer will be Pineiro. The guy has never closed before, but has shown a terrible trend recently. How can you take the guy with the AL's worst ERA in 2006 and hand him the ball in 2007 with 3 outs to go for a win on a nightly basis in Boston of all places? He wont last a month. Timlin is old and faded badly. Donnelly is the only quality guy you have out there, and he is trending downward as well. Romero was terrible last yr. Okajima is a ???. Tavarez was awful last yr too. You do have depth here, though. If the sox could get Hansen right, then they could have a nice BP ace of the future and Delcarmen is a solid talent as well.

 

So in all, the sox have bullpen depth, but depth is only useful when they are good. But the sox lack rotational depth. Just like last yr, Lester was the ace in the 6 hole sitting in Pawtucket and the sox ran through 11 or so starting pitchers.

 

If I looked at our pitching the way you do Jackson I would also go hide in the closet, but what I do know is that we are a lot deeper than last year, some of our young studs might surprise this spring, and I don't think for a minute that Piniero will be our closer. Admittedly that has to be the bigges joke of the spring. Okajima was given a questionmark, but he is rated higher than Takishi Saito who turned out to be a helluva closer for the Dodgers last year. Oki has better stuff, is faster, and younger. No reason why he can't be considered for such a spot. Donnelly has always been a fighter and gets the most of his ability and success to back it up. Hansen is the missing link. If he can show something this spring approximating what potential he's supposed to have, then he could be a big factor in my team's success. I agree with Romero; he is a waste of a roster spot and a rotten attitude to boot, but Timlin showed my something when he saved three games in succession at YS last September. I still think he has some fuel left in his tank.

[jacksonianmarch]

I guess if you want to parse it like that' date=' then go ahead. The message was pretty clear, and pretty incorrect. You know it.[/quote']

 

Not really ORS. I think the quote I made on Gammons sums it up pretty well. Most of the analysts will pick the yankees and the few that dont will get quoted and posted as lead stories on ESPN.com. It is a story, they follow it and create it. But what I am talking about for the most part is what comes in season.

 

First of all, it has been starting already. Guys like Keith Law will say something like "Phil Hughes is a #2 in my opinion" in a chat where he considers Kazmir, Cain, Bailey and Lincecum aces. Then it comes to Gammons who does an article on the young pitchers coming up the pipe and gushes over Lester and Buchholz, yet has one line for Hughes "he is coming". Then it is the Steve Phillips's of the world picking against NY halfway through the season just because of a feeling. It is an ESPN special. Most of them pick NY, those that dont get featured on their page. Those that do, eventually degrade the s*** out of the yankees pitching, offense, defense, bullpen, and farm system from day 1. It is just what they do.

 

It will come.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you're saying the Yankees will be good, but they can't beat a team. They will also rape the Pirates (who of course are not on their schedule).

 

You never cease to amaze me.

 

I read your quote before wonderboy's and was wondering what the hell you were talking about. Then I saw wonderboy's quote. Oh brother.

[seabeachfred]

And then there's the truth. Out of 19 baseball writers, 13 picked the Yankees last year, including Stark (and Gammons).

 

link

 

The part in bold is crow on the horizon. Fire's lit. Given the track record of your assertions, you might want to be in the market for bib.

 

So why in hell ORS would I want to take what those scribes say seriously anyway? Only two got in partly right with the Cardinals and wrong on their opponent. I don't think they know any more than some of us, and maybe we ought to be grateful that some don't pick us because the way their luck has been going it would more like the kiss of death anyway.

I would concede that because the Yankees have won the AL East nine times in a row they ought to be the slight favorite, but that's only a paper advantage and their pitching is very suspect as it is. However, we need a closer and must have a decent one if we don't want to give away part of the store before we find ourselves in the deep mud.

[jacksonianmarch]

If I looked at our pitching the way you do Jackson I would also go hide in the closet' date=' but what I do know is that we are a lot deeper than last year, some of our young studs might surprise this spring, and I don't think for a minute that Piniero will be our closer. Admittedly that has to be the bigges joke of the spring. Okajima was given a questionmark, but he is rated higher than Takishi Saito who turned out to be a helluva closer for the Dodgers last year. Oki has better stuff, is faster, and younger. No reason why he can't be considered for such a spot. Donnelly has always been a fighter and gets the most of his ability and success to back it up. Hansen is the missing link. If he can show something this spring approximating what potential he's supposed to have, then he could be a big factor in my team's success. I agree with Romero; he is a waste of a roster spot and a rotten attitude to boot, but Timlin showed my something when he saved three games in succession at YS last September. I still think he has some fuel left in his tank.[/quote']

 

seabeach, the sox need Hansen to come through. Also, on Okajima, there is nothing that says he should be better than Saito. Most of the SR's coming out have him pegged as a loogy reliever. But that is all we have, scouting reports. You cannot peg anything on him right now, he is a questionmark, a hope a prayer. Kinda like Igawa is with us.

[seabeachfred]

seabeach' date=' the sox need Hansen to come through. Also, on Okajima, there is nothing that says he should be better than Saito. Most of the SR's coming out have him pegged as a loogy reliever. But that is all we have, scouting reports. You cannot peg anything on him right now, he is a questionmark, a hope a prayer. Kinda like Igawa is with us.[/quote']

 

That's what they said about Saito last Spring Jackson. He was rated so low they sent him to Triple AAA and then he came back and had a helluva year. I'm not saying it could or couldn't happen with Okajima but he was rated as a better pitcher than Takishi when they played in Japan. Both our teams have questionmarks but I really feel that this year we have a solid chance of upending the Yankees. Apparently, you don't. Well all we have is talk right now and better we be optimistic about our teams than the other way around.

[jacksonianmarch]

I would concede that because the Yankees have won the AL East nine times in a row they ought to be the slight favorite, but that's only a paper advantage and their pitching is very suspect as it is. However, we need a closer and must have a decent one if we don't want to give away part of the store before we find ourselves in the deep mud.

 

 

and this is the single reason why the sox will lose the east going away. Unless they get lucky out of the gate with Pineiro as the closer, they will be experimenting. Experimenting typically results in some failures before the success comes through. The yankees offense will murder teams, their starters will give them innings, and the pen will save the leads when they need saving. They wont outduel teams in the pitching category too often, they wont rely on 8 innings of shutout ball to win. They will mutilate bad pitching and hold the leads once they get past the 7th inning. With the sox, they will outduel teams if the balls bounce the right way and will have a good enough offense to have a lot of leads. But experimenting with the single most important inning of any game is an easy way to lose 3,4, or even 5 games that should be victories. That is a 6,8,10 game swing. You cannot do that when your competition is a team built for the regular season like the yankees are. And if Hughes turns out to be the second coming and Roger decides to relaunch in NY, the yankees will have the rotation to win it all come the playoffs. As of right now, they have a rotation that will win them the east, but I dont have a ton of faith in it to win a short series. If you land a quality closer, then the gap closes and it will be a dogfight to the finish.

[adam123]

So you're saying the Yankees will be good, but they can't beat a team. They will also rape the Pirates (who of course are not on their schedule).

 

You never cease to amaze me.

 

what i mean coco is the just pic from low teams like pirates for trades but they never address there old pitching .. the have alot of me payers and when the run into a team oriented club they loose thats what i ment .. pesonally i hope they suck .. but we know that wont happen

[Cocos Disciples]

Give me an example of a non-team oriented club please.

[adam123]

i just wana see judas out for season .. it killes me to see that guy again and again .. i live in vegas and we get wankees baseball on radio that kills me ..but its funny the have dave cokin and hes the bigest red sox fan in vegas hes on leading up to wankee games ha ah

[CrespoBlows]

what i mean coco is the just pic from low teams like pirates for trades but they never address there old pitching .. the have alot of me payers and when the run into a team oriented club they loose thats what i ment .. pesonally i hope they suck .. but we know that wont happen

 

Case in point, on why typing is important.

[adam123]

Give me an example of a non-team oriented club please.

 

yankees .. there not a team .. there just a bunch of hierd guns brought in to win and the have not won at all. against us in 04 lost .... against az , lost , detroit , lost .. but if you look back at there champion teams the had solid guys not all stars .. but they had a soild team