Who will be the sox closer?

[ksushi]

Don't bother. Matsuzaka is head and shoulders better than Igawa. Igawa is a soft tosser with no where near Matsuzaka stuff. Matsuzaka has been down right dominant. It might not translate right away into dominance in the majors, but he's very very good and will more than likely post a very good season. Igawa might get rocked.

 

I put Matsuzaka at around 14-16 wins, a 3.50 ERA, and 190k's in 200 innings.

 

I put Igawa at 12-14 wins, a 4.70 ERA, and 190k's in 200 innings.

 

The ERA might be generous with Igawa.

[jacksonianmarch]

Don't bother. Matsuzaka is head and shoulders better than Igawa. Igawa is a soft tosser with no where near Matsuzaka stuff. Matsuzaka has been down right dominant.

 

I agree that stuff wise, Matsuzaka has it all.

[example1]

Not true my friend. Check the stats. Igawa won 3 SO titles and won 20 games once. Matsuzaka has had great seasons followed by a few marred by injury.

 

I just checked the stats. Last year's line:

 

Matsuzaka struck out 200 in 186 IP. Igawa struck out 184 in 200 IP. One of them had more than a K per inning.

 

Matsuzaka's ERA has basically dropped every year since 2000 (his second full season):

3.97

3.60

3.68

2.83

2.90

2.30

2.13

 

Igawa's has not:

4.35

2.67

2.49

2.80

3.73

3.86

3.11

 

Despite his strikeout totals, Igawa has had only one season of more than 1 K per inning. Matsuzaka has done it in 3 of his past 4 seasons. Interesting discrepency between CG's, (which isn't good or bad, just interesting) 2005: Matsuzaka (15 CG), Igawa (2 CG).

 

Everyone in Japan knows Matsuzaka is the better pitcher. It's like comparing Roy Oswalt to Eric Bedard. Both are good but one is clearly better.

[jacksonianmarch]

Both are good and one is clearly better. Good, that is a solid statement.

[castigs850]

thats like saying jeff hardy is good but cena is better, they but both are wearing gold so whats it matter? but in all seriousness D-Mat is better

[seabeachfred]

Hey guys, I decided to get back on a day early. Missed the whole crowd except you know who. Closer? I haven't a clue. I still think we should trade for one.

[Fried Neckbones]

Fred, who would you trade and who would you target? Kind of a thin market at this point, methinks.

[example1]

We're going to find a closer.

 

Personally I think Hansen is up for the job. So far we have seen 2 seasons of Hansen without his slider, which was an absolutely natural, ball-buster throughout his college years. You can watch his video from St. Johns on the 2005 MLB Draft Tracker and see his slider behaving naughtily.

 

Hansen has not found that in the bigs yet, and has so far lacked the ability to get ahead enough to make that pitch effective. I see no reason to believe that between Okajima, Hansen, Timlin, Delcarmen, Tavarez, Pineiro, Donnelly and Romero there is not someone who can be MLB average closer. Beyond that I think that Edgar Martinez, Bryce Cox, Justin Masterson (who is being groomed as a starter, isn't he?) and Daniel Bard can do it next year (or this year if they're phenomenal). Finally, Wakefield has closed in the past and Jon Papelbon is always an emergency option.

 

Closers are overrated unless you can get one who is absolutely dominant (Mariano, K-Rod, etc.,) then they will put your team over the top. Given that that guy doesn't appear available, MLB average to start out with would be great.

[RedSoxRooter]

I honestly think Jon Lester will have an impact on the closer situation next year. I know, I know, I should write him off for next year but...

 

Should the rotation stay healthy, and Lester stay on course for a return by, say, the trade deadline, I really think the club will consider putting Papelbon back in as closer (provided there are problems with Pineiro and the rest) and moving Lester back into the rotation.

 

Again - I think this could be a midseason move. When Lester initially comes back I think they'll start him off in Pawtucket until the time is right to move him up.

 

It's nothing you can count on, but it's certainly far from out of the question.. And it's a better option than trading away talent for someone else's junk closer.

 

Besides, should the Sox make the playoffs next year, where do you think Papelbon will be pitching if everyone else is healthy?

 

Schill will start

Matsuzaka will start

Beckett and Wake will start

 

and Papelbon will be in the pen anyway. And if he's there, you know he's closing. So why not get him into the role a couple of months earlier?

 

This is my gut talking.

[seabeachfred]

Fred' date=' who would you trade and who would you target? Kind of a thin market at this point, methinks.[/quote']

 

FN, I still kind of like either Cordero of the Nationals or the guy from Pittsburgh. I also believe that Ducherer of Oakland could be a good fit, and they need an outfielder or two. Something could come from that. Aside from those, you're right, the roster for closers is a little thin.

[example1]

I honestly think Jon Lester will have an impact on the closer situation next year. I know, I know, I should write him off for next year but...

 

Should the rotation stay healthy, and Lester stay on course for a return by, say, the trade deadline, I really think the club will consider putting Papelbon back in as closer (provided there are problems with Pineiro and the rest) and moving Lester back into the rotation.

 

Again - I think this could be a midseason move. When Lester initially comes back I think they'll start him off in Pawtucket until the time is right to move him up.

 

It's nothing you can count on, but it's certainly far from out of the question.. And it's a better option than trading away talent for someone else's junk closer.

 

Besides, should the Sox make the playoffs next year, where do you think Papelbon will be pitching if everyone else is healthy?

 

Schill will start

Matsuzaka will start

Beckett and Wake will start

 

and Papelbon will be in the pen anyway. And if he's there, you know he's closing. So why not get him into the role a couple of months earlier?

 

This is my gut talking.

 

My gut tells me that the sox had planned on having Lester up by the end of last season and for all of 07. He could be an invaluable long-reliever or #5 starter if healthy. A lefty who can hit 94 and has 3 good pitches can hold a team down through the important middle innings. That's what I would do if it were MY team.

 

That said Lester's value is as a starter and I think the Sox are convinced that he's shown that he can pitch in the minors and can help the team at LEAST as much as Joel Pineiro, especially if healthy.

[riverside sluggers]

Besides' date=' should the Sox make the playoffs [b']next year[/b], where do you think Papelbon will be pitching if everyone else is healthy?

 

Schill will start

Matsuzaka will start

Beckett and Wake will start

 

and Papelbon will be in the pen anyway. And if he's there, you know he's closing. So why not get him into the role a couple of months earlier?

 

This is my gut talking.

 

Schill will be gone, he's said again & again that this is his last hurrah. 2007 is also set to be Wake's final season, if it's not he'll be in the bullpen

[seabeachfred]

I honestly think Jon Lester will have an impact on the closer situation next year. I know, I know, I should write him off for next year but...

 

Should the rotation stay healthy, and Lester stay on course for a return by, say, the trade deadline, I really think the club will consider putting Papelbon back in as closer (provided there are problems with Pineiro and the rest) and moving Lester back into the rotation.

 

Again - I think this could be a midseason move. When Lester initially comes back I think they'll start him off in Pawtucket until the time is right to move him up.

 

It's nothing you can count on, but it's certainly far from out of the question.. And it's a better option than trading away talent for someone else's junk closer.

 

Besides, should the Sox make the playoffs next year, where do you think Papelbon will be pitching if everyone else is healthy?

 

Schill will start

Matsuzaka will start

Beckett and Wake will start

 

and Papelbon will be in the pen anyway. And if he's there, you know he's closing. So why not get him into the role a couple of months earlier?

 

This is my gut talking.

 

Since that is your gut talking, who would you think would take his place in the rotation? We would need a guy in that spot who could at least get us a win a little over 50% of the time. Wake would move up to 4th on the list, I suppose, but he's coming off an injury and off season and he's no sure thing for a good season. I still think if we could get a solid closer, yes, I mean solid like Cordero we could be ready to challenge from the opening gun. Remember 2003? We fiddled half the season with that closer by committee and when he finally made our move that summer we were too far behind to catch up to the Yankees. I lost count of how many blown saves we had up to that time. Someone said 14 That's a hell of a lot. This year I would like to jump out front and stay there.

[RedSoxRooter]

Schill will be gone' date=' he's said again & again that this is his last hurrah. 2007 is also set to be Wake's final season, if it's not he'll be in the bullpen[/quote']

 

I meant this year. Next baseball season. 07. jeez.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lester is said to have lost a lot of weight and is very weak. If you rush him, he will hurt his arm.

[riverside sluggers]

I meant this year. Next baseball season. 07. jeez.

 

Ok calm down, I wasnt trying to attack you. When I hear "next year", I just right away thought of 2008. Its a natural mistake

[RedSoxRooter]

He said he only lost 10 lbs. He's also started training. I think he has his eyes set on ST but I think the Sox will hold him back till he's ready. And I think he'll be ready by July.

[RedSoxRooter]

Ok calm down' date=' I wasnt trying to attack you. When I hear "next year", I just right away thought of 2008. Its a natural mistake[/quote']

 

:banned:

[example1]

Lester is said to have lost a lot of weight and is very weak. If you rush him' date=' he will hurt his arm.[/quote']

 

I believe you, but who said that? From what I have heard the official red sox releases have been the only news I've seen on lester.

[RedSoxRooter]

I believe you' date=' but who said that? From what I have heard the official red sox releases have been the only news I've seen on lester.[/quote']

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2686799

 

The 22-year-old lefty threw for the first time on Monday, and has been lifting weights to try to keep in shape; he has lost about 10 pounds.

[jacksonianmarch]

I believe you' date=' but who said that? From what I have heard the official red sox releases have been the only news I've seen on lester.[/quote']

 

No official links, but one of the globe writers was saying so.

[jacksonianmarch]

10 pounds is not much for me. But for a 160 pound kid, that is bad.

[example1]

He's 22. If he's cancer free and healthy then chances are he will gain it all back and then some.

[jacksonianmarch]

he will gain it back eventually. The question is, when. If you rush him back, he will not have the legs under him, nor the body strength. That means the arm is gonna be under a lot of stress. They need to rebuild the body.

[example1]

he will gain it back eventually. The question is' date=' when. If you rush him back, he will not have the legs under him, nor the body strength. That means the arm is gonna be under a lot of stress. They need to rebuild the body.[/quote']

 

The front office isn't the Bush administration. They're capable of having multiple scenarios and reacting to what happens. It's not like they have to decide "Let's rush him no matter what!". They're going to see how strong he is. Lester is a tremendous athelete, 22 years old and in the absolute health prime of his life. If he's throwing 94 with solid location by the end of ST then I trust that they'll make the right decision about where he should go.

[jacksonianmarch]

The front office isn't the Bush administration. They're capable of having multiple scenarios and reacting to what happens. It's not like they have to decide "Let's rush him no matter what!". They're going to see how strong he is. Lester is a tremendous athelete' date=' 22 years old and in the absolute health prime of his life. If he's throwing 94 with solid location by the end of ST then I trust that they'll make the right decision about where he should go.[/quote']

 

Take the yankees bias out of what I am about to say. But I think this kid needs to be left in AAA for the entire season. Leave him there, lessen pressure and make him work on rebuilding himself.

[example1]

Take the yankees bias out of what I am about to say. But I think this kid needs to be left in AAA for the entire season. Leave him there' date=' lessen pressure and make him work on rebuilding himself.[/quote']

 

 

That could certainly be true. You and I don't have access to the staff, we can't watch them throw and we don't know how well they're going to do. The management and FO will make this determination based on what their assessment of his health and the team's health.

 

That said, if they decided he needed a year at AAA I wouldn't argue with it. They should have a deep pitching staff.

[ksushi]

OF COURSE HE LOST WEIGHT!!! He was battling cancer? What did you expect he did fight it off like some Braveheart scene or something? He is working this offseason to get the weight back, and the sox will do anything but rush him. But, he is 22, and he'll gain it back fast and recover quickly. He will be what he was pre-surgery and will be a big piece come '08. In 07, its all up to how fast he recovers. I could see him starting come the all-star break. It would be like a nice trade-deadline acquisition, except without giving up anything.

[ANiMAL]

lester can hold to be very valuable b/c we can have him in AAA when he comes back and that is no problem as a come back season... and if we have injuries and we need him in august/september he'll be there.... so right now hes btwn majors and minors b/c of his health which i think is a great tool to have when you have a lot of pitching depth

[seabeachfred]

Frankly my friends, I would rather Jon Lester take it nice and slowly in his rehabilitation from that dreaded disease. Who knows how much progress he's made until we see him perform in Florida. He might need to go slowly at first and he might wind up at Pawtucket the first part of the season. Since he is young and strong he might just be able to make it back to Boston in the second half of the season. Everyone I know wishes him the best; I happen to have seen the last game he pitched. It was against the Angels and he was struggling throughout his five innings. I kept wondering why he was doing so poorly, having no idea what was ailing him. As it was he pitched well enough to get the win.