RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[a700hitter]

I will be patient. For too long my yankee brethren have yearned for the right now' date=' only to watch the team fall flat on their face with no future hope aside from bags of cash. Now, we have a team that could win right now and has the future ahead of them that is bright. Assimilating young talent into a mix of proven winners is the way of the yankee dynasty. We shall see if another one crops up.[/quote']The proven winners other than Jeter, Mo and Posada?

[jacksonianmarch]

The proven winners other than Jeter' date=' Mo and Posada?[/quote']

 

the rest of the bunch may not have won any WS's, but winning your division and making the world series are certainly signs that you know how to win some ballgames.

[a700hitter]

the rest of the bunch may not have won any WS's' date=' but winning your division and making the world series are certainly signs that you know how to win some ballgames.[/quote']I thought winning the division didn't mean anything to the Yankees or their fans? make up your minds. Does it mean something or not?

[jacksonianmarch]

I thought winning the division didn't mean anything to the Yankees or their fans? make up your minds. Does it mean something or not?

 

Winning the division is not our goal. But winning the division does prove that your team can win. Just because we lose the series doesnt mean the team is loaded with losers, it just means that the season was not a success aour goals went unfulfilled.

[a700hitter]

Winning the division is not our goal. But winning the division does prove that your team can win. Just because we lose the series doesnt mean the team is loaded with losers' date=' it just means that the season was not a success aour goals went unfulfilled.[/quote']I think you are diluting the term "proven winner." You could also say that players that are on above .500 teams that are competive for playoff spots are proven winners. I think that term should be reserved for guys with rings. The others players fall into two classes: experienced and inexperienced.

[TheKilo]

The cubs will be sold this yr. The cubs will be out of the NL Central race by June. Zambrano will be dealt. Bank it. Where he goes' date=' who knows, but he will be traded this yr. And I have a feeling Santana will as well. The twins are gonna be horrible this yr.[/quote']

 

I don't think so. The NL Central is bad enough to where if the Cubs pitchers can stay healthy they'll be in it.

[ORS]

I don't think so. The NL Central is bad enough to where if the Cubs pitchers can stay healthy they'll be in it.

No, you don't understand. Put your pinstriped glasses on, and you'll see it clearly.

[TheKilo]

No' date=' you don't understand. Put your pinstriped glasses on, and you'll see it clearly.[/quote']

 

 

Wow, with these on I see Kei Igawa replacing Randy Johnson with ease!

 

And wait...Russ Ohelndorf, 2008 Cy Young Winner? Holy s***!

[Gom]

I think that the Red Sox fans overvalue Randy Johnson since he did well against them in 2005. However, he was putrid against the Sox last year, is coming off of a serious surgery, and has two more years of mileage in 2007 as opposed to 2005. He is at the point in his career where regression is the norm.

 

I love how the Sox have gone with youth in Hansen, Papelbon, Lester, Delcarmen, etc. How come you guys, who have seen the beginnings of the fruits of those labors demean the Yankees who are going in the same direction?

 

To answer ORS, I think Wang has the best sinker in baseball. No one else in baseball throws it as hard as he does. His BABIP may be close to the average, but there is a big difference in whether those balls are hit on the ground or in the air. The more he puts them on the ground, the bigger the chances of a double play, or a force out. It's tough to advance runners on a ground ball when it's a runner on first. He doesn't give up a lot of extra base hits, fellas.

[TheKilo]

I think that the Red Sox fans overvalue Randy Johnson since he did well against them in 2005. However, he was putrid against the Sox last year, is coming off of a serious surgery, and has two more years of mileage in 2007 as opposed to 2005. He is at the point in his career where regression is the norm.

 

I love how the Sox have gone with youth in Hansen, Papelbon, Lester, Delcarmen, etc. How come you guys, who have seen the beginnings of the fruits of those labors demean the Yankees who are going in the same direction?

 

To answer ORS, I think Wang has the best sinker in baseball. No one else in baseball throws it as hard as he does. His BABIP may be close to the average, but there is a big difference in whether those balls are hit on the ground or in the air. The more he puts them on the ground, the bigger the chances of a double play, or a force out. It's tough to advance runners on a ground ball when it's a runner on first. He doesn't give up a lot of extra base hits, fellas.

 

You're also more likely to get a hit if it's on the ground than in the air.

[SuperManny]

Keith Law Article

 

The Diamondbacks acquired one year of Randy Johnson from the Yankees (although they have since worked out a one-year extension), and while Johnson will be 42 and is coming off a season in which he posted a 5.00 ERA, there still seemed to be plenty in the tank until a late-season back injury ended his run of effectiveness, with a solid-average fastball and a still-plus slider, but less ability to blow the ball by hitters in the upper half of the zone. The Diamondbacks reportedly will pay $24 million for the privilege of having Johnson over the next two years, and they did give up a number of bodies, but didn't trade any of their top prospects -- not even Dustin Nippert, whom they've been offering around all winter.

 

In exchange, the Yankees received more pitching depth, although nothing resembling the high-end prospect they allegedly were going to receive. The one big leaguer they obtained was Luis Vizcaino, a hard-throwing middle reliever with iffy control but outstanding strikeout rates (except for his one year in the American League) who is probably a seventh-inning guy for the Yanks. His fastball is straight, and he's susceptible to the longball, limiting his upside, especially given the opposition he'll face as a Yankee. He has improved his splitter to where it's an average pitch, making him more than just a right-handed specialist.

 

Neither Ross Ohlendorf nor Steven Jackson projects as more than a reliever in the big leagues. Ohlendorf has remade himself since he was drafted out of some nondescript liberal arts school (Princeton) in New Jersey in 2004; in college, he had plus velocity but his fastball was straight, and his command was below-average, but he's exchanged a little velocity for some sink on his fastball, he's improved his changeup, and now pounds the strike zone. He has an average-to-plus slider with very good depth that is probably his best pitch to get swings and misses. He's got an outside chance to be a starter in the majors, particularly if he improves either of those secondary pitches.

 

Jackson is a groundball pitcher who lacks an outpitch and whose control is average or just slightly above, a combination which usually isn't good enough for a starting role in the majors, particularly not in the AL East. But Jackson and Ohlendorf both fit the Yankees' new philosophy of stockpiling arms, both minor-league arms for future trade bait and even some major-league ready arms like Vizcaino and Chris Britton to make someone like Scott Proctor easier to part with.

 

Arizona also will part with 23-year-old shortstop Alberto Gonzalez, but he's a nonfactor in this deal.

[Mr Crunchy]

wang is a sore elbow away from working at the kowloon

[jacksonianmarch]

Randy turns 44 next season, so Keith Law, undershooting the age by 2 yrs is convenient. That late season back injury is bogus as well, as his production improved down the stretch rather than being "felled by a back injury." 2 nice conveniences that Keith Law kinda messed up.

[VA Sox Fan]

Proper Name: Randall David Johnson

Born: September 10, 1963

Walnut Creek, CA

Height: 6-10

Weight: 231 lbs.

Age: 43

[jacksonianmarch]

Thanks VA!

[riverside sluggers]

To answer ORS' date=' I think Wang has the best sinker in baseball. No one else in baseball throws it as hard as he does. His BABIP may be close to the average, but there is a big difference in whether those balls are hit on the ground or in the air. The more he puts them on the ground, the bigger the chances of a double play, or a force out. It's tough to advance runners on a ground ball when it's a runner on first. He doesn't give up a lot of extra base hits, fellas.[/quote']

 

Cy Young award winner Brandon Webb says hello

[jacksonianmarch]

Cy Young award winner Brandon Webb says hello

 

Webbs sinker is more downward and is thrown at a slower velocity. Wangs sinker is nearly a screwball, biting back on righty hitters while diving and is consistently mid 90s- topping out at 98 last season. A 98mph sinker that can break from outside edge to down and in? Nobody in baseball can do that but Wang.

 

Also, Webb's secondary pitches are developed far past Wang's. That is why he K's so many. Wang has an MLB average change and slider while having a plus plus sinker. Webb, I believe has a plus breaking ball and changeup.

[redsoxrules]

Webbs sinker is more downward and is thrown at a slower velocity. Wangs sinker is nearly a screwball, biting back on righty hitters while diving and is consistently mid 90s- topping out at 98 last season. A 98mph sinker that can break from outside edge to down and in? Nobody in baseball can do that but Wang.

 

Also, Webb's secondary pitches are developed far past Wang's. That is why he K's so many. Wang has an MLB average change and slider while having a plus plus sinker. Webb, I believe has a plus breaking ball and changeup.

 

wtf are you smoking 98MPH sinker

[He Hate Me]

wtf are you smoking 98MPH sinker

 

I'm not sure about 98. But I do know his sinker hit 95-96 quite a few times that I watched him pitch. At least according to the respective radar guns anyway (and no they were not al at the Bronx ).

[redsoxrules]

I'm not sure about 98. But I do know his sinker hit 95-96 quite a few times that I watched him pitch. At least according to the respective radar guns anyway (and no they were not al at the Bronx ).

 

mostly between 92-95 his sinker will hit

[jacksonianmarch]

wtf are you smoking 98MPH sinker

 

2 seasons ago, Wang had a 1-0 gem against Nate Robertson vs the Tigers. I just came in from the pool and watched the game. The score was 0-0. I saw this Taiwanese kid throw sinkers 96-98-98-97-98 and I nearly s*** myself. I have seen him touch 98 since. He typically sits in the 93-95 range but can touch 98.

[TheKilo]

2 seasons ago' date=' Wang had a 1-0 gem against Nate Robertson vs the Tigers. I just came in from the pool and watched the game. The score was 0-0. I saw this Taiwanese kid throw sinkers 96-98-98-97-98 and I nearly s*** myself. I have seen him touch 98 since. He typically sits in the 93-95 range but can touch 98.[/quote']

 

On the YES gun?

[jacksonianmarch]

On the YES gun?

 

the YES gun was slow for most of the yr. Randy's first season, he was being clocked slow compared to stadium readings. Last yr, his gun was slow too. I am not saying he was throwing 100 or anything, just saying the guns are not overinflated, if anything, they underinflate.

[Gom]

Cy Young award winner Brandon Webb says hello

 

If not for Santana, Wang is the AL Cy Young award winner as he finished second. Oh wait...you probably think Webb would do better than Wang in the AL....or Santana would suck in the NL.

 

Isn't it past your bed time?

 

Wang's sinker is in the 92-96 mph range. Not only that, but it has a late break. Sound familiar?

[ORS]

To answer ORS' date=' I think Wang has the best sinker in baseball. No one else in baseball throws it as hard as he does. His BABIP may be close to the average, but there is a big difference in whether those balls are hit on the ground or in the air. The more he puts them on the ground, the bigger the chances of a double play, or a force out. It's tough to advance runners on a ground ball when it's a runner on first. He doesn't give up a lot of extra base hits, fellas.[/quote']

Do you gauge his sinker only by velocity or by results? Sure, Wang throws the ball harder, but Webb's has more movement, and that extra movement is tangible in the results. Webb gets a GB 66.3% of the time, and his GB/FB out ratio was 3.64. Wang gets a GB 62.8% of the time, with a 2.92 GB/FB out ratio. I'll take the results.

 

Was it merely the league adjustment? Nope, both leagues hit the ball on the ground 44% of the time.

 

Regarding the BABIP, like I said, I think it gauges how hard the ball is getting hit. Pitchers who give up more hard hit balls, on the ground or in the air, give up more hits. Wang was above average at home and below average on the road. This is noteworthy. As I mentioned before, and you ignored, his GB/FB and ERA performance were significantly better at home. I think this is due to the park set-up.

 

In the past, you've said you think road numbers are more predictive of true performance because you play in all different types of parks which washes out the advantage of one park over the other. I agree with this. If you look at Wang's road performance, you see that despite the ball being hit on the ground a high percentage of the time, it's hit hard enough to result in a hit more often than the league average. I think analysis of his "wonderful" sinker needs to tempered by his road results.

 

What does this mean going forward? It is the Yankees discretion to set-up their park, within league guidelines, as they see fit. So, I expect them to continue to eschew weak hitting IFs with good range, in favor of offensively productive IFs with less range, which means they will continue to "let the grass grow" in order to negate this defficiency. So, Wang will continue to be more effective at home. That said, if I were a Yankee fan, I would have full sphincter pressure if Wang is pitching a meaningful game on the road.

[riverside sluggers]

If not for Santana, Wang is the AL Cy Young award winner as he finished second. Oh wait...you probably think Webb would do better than Wang in the AL....or Santana would suck in the NL.

 

Isn't it past your bed time?

 

Wang's sinker is in the 92-96 mph range. Not only that, but it has a late break. Sound familiar?

 

haha please, your asking if im up past my bedtime. Hey Junior Im 24 and have recently worked the night shift a good deal, but switched back to day shift. Moreso because I dont want to miss a good chunk of games again. Brandon Webb's sinker has proven to be more effective than Wang's, let alone he's able to K people with ease 10 times more than Wang has the ability to

 

So you are to believe Wang will now be a consistent 17+ game winner and sub 3.5 ERA?? Thats what I thought about Derek Lowe too in the AL East with his nasty sinker, but he regressed in the tough hitting division

[jacksonianmarch]

or ORS, it could just be that the entire yankees staff benefitted from being home vs away (4.88 away 3.96 home). Or maybe that every single team in the AL benefits from the home away splits except for Detroit. Minnesota was 3.4-4.5. Detroit was the only team to benefit on the road (3.9-3.7).

 

Even his 4.3ERA on the road would put him in a top 3 category as a starter anyway. I think you are reading a bit into things, potentially wishfully. Been there though, lol.

[ORS]

or ORS, it could just be that the entire yankees staff benefitted from being home vs away (4.88 away 3.96 home). Or maybe that every single team in the AL benefits from the home away splits except for Detroit. Minnesota was 3.4-4.5. Detroit was the only team to benefit on the road (3.9-3.7).

 

Even his 4.3ERA on the road would put him in a top 3 category as a starter anyway. I think you are reading a bit into things, potentially wishfully. Been there though, lol.

His batted ball types held up road vs. home, but hit GB/FB out ratio was better by almost 1. I'd agree that it was just typical Home vs. Road performance if were just the ERA, but the out ratios are a big red flag. You can ignore them all you want, but I think I've looked at this as objectively as I can.

[jacksonianmarch]

haha please, your asking if im up past my bedtime. Hey Junior Im 24 and have recently worked the night shift a good deal, but switched back to day shift. Moreso because I dont want to miss a good chunk of games again. Brandon Webb's sinker has proven to be more effective than Wang's, let alone he's able to K people with ease 10 times more than Wang has the ability to

 

So you are to believe Wang will now be a consistent 17+ game winner and sub 3.5 ERA?? Thats what I thought about Derek Lowe too in the AL East with his nasty sinker, but he regressed in the tough hitting division

 

Derek Lowe has one tenth the makeup of this kid. Lowe got rattled. Wang wont.

[Mr Crunchy]

yeah but lowe won a game 7 in ny

nobody else in sox history can say that