Yankee Rotation

[Gom]

are you drunk again ?

Nope. I will be toasted tomorrow night though. Then I might actually believe this quote:

I'd say Schilling is still the best to be honest (possibly Papelbon). Mussina > Wang?

Schilling is more than likely the 5th best pitcher [or worse] in the two cities. I would take [in no order] Wang, Matsuzaka, Mussina, and Pettitte over Schilling. Please go back to sleep. You can borrow ORS's pillow.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Schilling is a question mark for this season. His uncharacteristic body breakdown at the end of last season and his BAA show ominous signs of age and loss of stuff.

 

Pettitte had a s*** first half, but had a good second half, then again, it was in the NL Central where a blind man could hit better than most of those pukes. He goes in as a ? as well. I think his stuff is still where it should be, but why was he a batting tee for half the yr?

[ORS]

Schilling is more than likely the 5th best pitcher [or worse] in the two cities. I would take [in no order] Wang' date=' Matsuzaka, Mussina, and Pettitte over Schilling. Please go back to sleep. You can borrow ORS's pillow.[/quote']

Schilling had the 2nd best FIP of that group last year (only Mussina was better by 0.13 - obviously Matsuzaka has no MLB data to compare). If you are going to continue to call me out, you better have your s*** wired tight, because I'll shred your weak opinion-based points all day long.

 

I think predictions of his demise ignore a very important fact. He was still not 100% recovered from the experimental ankle surgery during last offseason - I believe the expected timetable for a full recovery was 18 months. This affected his offseason training, and that in turn affected his stamina. Curt is a drop and drive pitcher, so he'll be able to strengthen the base of his power, his legs, better than he could last offseason. I'd take Wang, Pettitte, and Matsuzaka over Curt for future considerations, but I'd take Curt over them for next year alone. Mussina is about a toss up with Curt, IMO, and the better year between the two will probably be determined by who has better fortune with BABIP.

 

The problem I have with Wang is his weak peripheral performance. Traditionally, high GB% sinkerball pitchers only have sustained periods of success when they can accompany it with strong K-rates. Think Kevin Brown in his prime and Brandon Webb. Wang can't miss bats like those guys could/can. I'm skeptical he can keep up the smoke and mirrors. It's possible, but don't be shocked if that high number of balls in play he allows start finding a hole more often.

 

Pettitte is a complete wildcard/?? right now. Which Pettitte will show up? How will that version fare in the AL East? I do know one thing, one of the toughest lineups against LHP last year just got stronger with the addition of Frank Thomas. If I were a Yankee fan, I'd have full sphincter pressure when he faces off with the Jays.

[jacksonianmarch]

he was still not recovered? Cmon now ORS. 2 yrs later, if he wasnt recovered by then, he might never fully recover. BTW, he looked fully recovered early on. I just think his 40 yr old body might be showing signs that he is 40.

[ORS]

he was still not recovered? Cmon now ORS. 2 yrs later' date=' if he wasnt recovered by then, he might never fully recover. BTW, he looked fully recovered early on. I just think his 40 yr old body might be showing signs that he is 40.[/quote']

18 months Jacko, 18 months for full recovery. The surgery was in Nov of 2004. Do the math. Sure he looked good to start the year, but that 18 month recovery time ended in April. He could train in the offseason, but not 100%. Offseason training is where players get their stamina to last a whole season. This isn't rocket-sciencistry.

[jacksonianmarch]

ORS, if the recovery time was 18 months, then he should have gotten stronger as the yr wore on. The initial 6 months is recovery from the trauma of surgery. As you get past that, it is all about getting stronger. He should have peaked late, rather than faded.

[ORS]

Wrong. The offseason is when the players can condition themselves for the grind of the season. He wasn't at 100% during the offseason conditioning period.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wrong. The offseason is when the players can condition themselves for the grind of the season. He wasn't at 100% during the offseason conditioning period.

 

ORS, I have a feeling you are trying to add excuse for your aging aces performance here. You know what, RJ's knee procedure really takes 5 yrs to recover from, so expect him to regain his dominance next yr.

[ORS]

But, Jacko, you are making that number up. The 18 months was the reported recovery time. Nice try.

 

I'm not adding an excuse. I'm looking at the data and applying it to the normal offseason routine. Time will tell. Two months until P & C report.

[jacksonianmarch]

also, I was debating the fact that his body was breaking down. It wasnt the ankle that was bothering him, it was the back I thought.

 

Also, I know I am right on the whole getting stronger bit. If you project an 18 month recovery time, you know that the first part is recovering from the trauma and healing. The second stage is getting stronger. The more you use it, the stronger it gets. Initially, the problem will fatigue rapidly (which wasnt the case this past season with Schilling as he was nearly at 7IP per start through the AS break) and gradually gain stamina (which again wasnt the case as he as only good for 6.1IP after the AS break.

 

My point is that if he was recovering from the surgery, he'd be escalating as the yr went on. If he was wearing down, then he would be declining. Looks like the wearing down camp wins stat wise.

[jacksonianmarch]

and I can understand why you wont accept schilling's decline after watching the heroics in 2004 and how he battled back in 05 through mediocrity to finish well. Just like I didnt want to believe that Coney was breaking down a few yrs back or that RJ was all washed up last yr. Who knows, they may come back and surprise all of us, but I am not expecting it. I expect RJ to finish the yr with worse peripherals than last yr (but with a better ERA believe it or not because of his propensity for giving up the inopportune hits last season, which is rather unprecedented) and as the team's 4/5. I expect Schilling to finish the yr as the #3/4 as well.

[ORS]

also, I was debating the fact that his body was breaking down. It wasnt the ankle that was bothering him, it was the back I thought.

 

Also, I know I am right on the whole getting stronger bit. If you project an 18 month recovery time, you know that the first part is recovering from the trauma and healing. The second stage is getting stronger. The more you use it, the stronger it gets. Initially, the problem will fatigue rapidly (which wasnt the case this past season with Schilling as he was nearly at 7IP per start through the AS break) and gradually gain stamina (which again wasnt the case as he as only good for 6.1IP after the AS break.

 

My point is that if he was recovering from the surgery, he'd be escalating as the yr went on. If he was wearing down, then he would be declining. Looks like the wearing down camp wins stat wise.

You have it all wrong though.

 

He did get stronger from his initial weakness as is evidenced by his improvement in the second half of '05. And, he even got stronger as he started off the year well in '06. What he missed was the opportunity to condition himself for the full season grind. His legs are integral to his pitching success, and they wore out because he wasn't able to build the normal base he does in the offseason. It's really a simple concept, and one that applies for power players in every major sport.

 

Is some of it age? Absolutely, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't fully recovered when he conditioned himself for the '06 season. I see him starting the year off very well in '07 with a bit of a swoon in the second half due to age, but it won't be as dramatic as it was last season.

[Plumpamania]

 

Schilling is more than likely the 5th best pitcher [or worse] in the two cities. I would take [in no order] Wang, Matsuzaka, Mussina, and Pettitte over Schilling. Please go back to sleep. You can borrow ORS's pillow.

 

After Pettite's not so stellar few years in the Nl Central where my Grandmother could have hit clean up on a few teams, he comes back to the AL East after he was considering retirement. Along with lingering elbow problems I wouldn't take him over Schilling.

 

I call Schilling and Mussina a wash. They were only 9 ERA+ points away from each other. And two out of the last three years Mussina has put up an ERA+ under 100.

[TheKilo]

Gom, I sorta feel the same way with the added caveat.

 

As usual, the yankees are built for the regular season, although this season, with the addition of Pettitte, they have the potential to be very strong in the postseason. With the offense, the pen, and the likely high IP potential of this rotation, the yankees should crush the s***** teams and stand tall with the good teams. That will give them likely a 95-100 win regular season. The red sox are going to have more trouble in the regular season. No stability in the pen and a lineup that is still going to have its issues. But they are a team that will contend for the wild card, and if they come into the playoffs with momentum, they will be a team that nobody wants to play.

 

lol

[TheKilo]

Wang is the best pitcher in either city right now. Period. Maybe that changes with Matsuzaka' date=' but outside of him, no one in Boston can match up with Wang.[/quote']

 

loll