Yankee Rotation

[Plumpamania]

In another forum, that is litered with Yankee trash...well...they are arguing that the Yankee rotation is actually better than the Red Sox rotation.

 

Mussina = Schilling

Wang > Beckett (not on potential)

Pettite

Johnson

Igawa/Pavano

 

That's at least how I view it and I think I do it without bias. But they then are contingent to argue that Karstens and Rasner are good back up options if one of their starters is injured. Which I disagree with, since Hughes will almost be the top choice to be called up.

 

Anyways, what do you guys think?

[Cocos Disciples]

Mussina>Schilling

-Schilling is going to decline this year. Mussina is still a real good pitcher.

 

Not so sure about Paps vs. Johnson...Johnson's gonna rebound to about a 4 ERA, 15 wins, etc...they could be about equal this year.

[Plumpamania]

That's one argument the Mussina > Schilling one that I argued.

 

Mussina in the last three years has had elbow problems, that restricted him to sub ERA+ (below a 100 ERA+). Then he came out of nowhere last year with that season.

 

Last season they were only 9 ERA+ points apart. I'd still call them a wash.

[BoSox34]

Mussina > Schilling

Wang

Pettite

Johnson

Igawa/Pavano

 

There's no question that our rotation is superior.

[Plumpamania]

I wouldn't call Wang

 

Last year Wang was much better. If you did potential it would be Wang Beckett.

[example1]

Okay, this is all about opinion so I'll throw in my 2 cents... I'm ranking this on how I think the pitchers will be, rather than the order they will necessarily be in.

 

Mussina

Wang > Beckett

Pettitte = Schilling

Johnson = Wakefield

Igawa

 

I see two clearcut Sox advantages and one for the Yankees. All-in-all though I think their starting pitching is pretty good. I like the Sox pitching better for the next few years, that's for sure. I don't think Wang's upside is much higher than he's at now, as he's a gb pitcher and that's essentially what he's getting at this point. He's not going to have a 2.00 ERA and 200+ k's in any season. Beckett, Papelbon and Matsuzaka could all do that.

 

Finally, I suppose I should explain how I could have Matsuzaka as better than Mussina. I think they're actually pretty close but Matsuzaka has some particularly nasty stuff. We'll check in later in the season, but I think that those who have seen him believe he will be very good. Jorge Cantu, when asked by an ESPN commentator where on a scale of 1-10 Matsuzaka would fit in, Cantu surprised him by saying "Oh, he's up there. Probably a 9, possbly a 10". Mussina is a good pitcher but he's no longer over powering. I think Wang/Matsuzaka and Mussina/Schilling are the best potential matchups in the group. Although a Randy Johnson/Papelbon duel wouldn't be bad either

 

There is a reason that the Sox have had their eyes on Monster since 1999 Koishen and that Theo says he actually hoped Matsuzaka wouldn't do well in the WBC so he might stay more under the radar. The Yankees bid 30+ and the Mets 40+, so I think we're talking about one of the games elite pitchers.

 

Oh yeah, he's also one of the healthiest and most projectable pitchers around. His motion is smooth and seems very fluid and he's just a pitching machine. The sox will slow down how much he's used but they also said they weren't going to completely change the way he pitches. He's an innings eater, pitching lots of CG's over his career. They aren't worried that its a sign that his arm is likely to go, they see it as a sign that he's in excellent pitching condition.

[Gom]

I wouldn't call Wang

 

Last year Wang was much better. If you did potential it would be Wang Beckett.

 

I don't even see potential. Wang throws just as hard as Beckett, gives up less homeruns, has better control. I don't see Beckett better in any way shape or form.

 

Mussina > Schilling

Wang

Pettite

Johnson

Igawa/Pavano

 

The question is not who is number one, etc. The only ones that really matter are 1-4. No one goes with a fifth in the playoffs. However, I will include all 5.

 

So, the Yankees sport Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, Johnson, and Igawa/Pavano. The Red Sox sport Schilling, Matsuzaka, Beckett, Papelbon, Wakefield.

 

In the matchups of number one's, Wang tops anything on either side. Let's put him up against Beckett, since that seems to be the consensus in this argument. No contest. Edge: Big-Yankees.

 

Schilling versus Mussina. Both pitchers are getting up there in years, but Mussina had been more consistent. Edge: Yankees...very slight.

 

Matsuzaka vs Pettitte. Toughest one to call. Pettitte comes with a track record, Matsuzaka could be boom or bust. Pettitte has the pedigree, Matsuzaka has the hype. No one really knows this one. Edge: pick'em [i know Sox fans will disagree, but this could go anywhere from huge edge yanks to huge edge/no contest sox]. No one really knows.

 

Papelbon vs Johnson. Johnson was the benificiary of a potent Yankees offense. Papelbon was dominant in the pen, but problems with his shoulder lead to question marks. However, I will take Papelbon's youth and skill. It's not like Randy Johnson is the most durable these days either. Edge: Red Sox.

 

Wakefield vs the 2 headed monster. Wakefield will put up the same numbers he does every year. The combination of Igawa and Pavano should yield about the same results as Wakefield does alone. Edge: Who cares?

 

I admit, the Sox rotation has more potential, as they have 3 starters under 30 and are still maturing, against the Yankees one in Wang. However, going into next season, I think there is a slight edge to the Yankees only because of the unknown of Matsuzaka. If he comes as advertised, then the edge is huge to the Red Sox.

[Cocos Disciples]

You better care about the 5th starter, cause if it's poor, thats a few losses tacked on...every game is important, and the 5th spot gets 35.

[Gom]

You better care about the 5th starter' date=' cause if it's poor, thats a few losses tacked on...every game is important, and the 5th spot gets 35.[/quote']

 

Eh...we're in the playoffs. That much I'm pretty sure of. So it doesn't really matter. The 5th starter will go close to .500. For both teams.

[Cocos Disciples]

There are no givens...in 2005, you made the playoffs because of Chacon and Small basically...5th starters.

[example1]

I don't even see potential. Wang throws just as hard as Beckett' date=' gives up less homeruns, has better control. I don't see Beckett better in any way shape or form. [/quote']

 

From Bill James handbook:

 

Fastest average fastball:

 

Hernandez, SEA 95.2

Verlander, DET 95.1

Beckett, BOS 94.7

Sabathia, CLE 93.7

Bonderman, DET 93.3

Escobar, LAA 93.1

Wang, NYY 93.1

 

Pitches 95+ Velocity

 

Beckett 1072

Verlander 992

Hernandez 950

Zumaya (!!!) 884

Cabrera 834

Burnett 677

 

Long story short, I don't think its factually correct to say Wang throws just as hard as Beckett. If Beckett could locate like Wang then his fastball would be a better pitch than Wang's. Just to clarify.

 

Mussina > Schilling

Wang

Pettite

Johnson

Igawa/Pavano

 

The question is not who is number one, etc. The only ones that really matter are 1-4. No one goes with a fifth in the playoffs. However, I will include all 5.

 

So, the Yankees sport Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, Johnson, and Igawa/Pavano. The Red Sox sport Schilling, Matsuzaka, Beckett, Papelbon, Wakefield.

 

In the matchups of number one's, Wang tops anything on either side. Let's put him up against Beckett, since that seems to be the consensus in this argument. No contest. Edge: Big-Yankees.

 

True, until after Matsuzaka's first MLB start at which point people will realize that every one of his pitches is as good or better than Wang's best. Just sayin'...

 

Schilling versus Mussina. Both pitchers are getting up there in years, but Mussina had been more consistent. Edge: Yankees...very slight.

 

 

Matsuzaka vs Pettitte. Toughest one to call. Pettitte comes with a track record, Matsuzaka could be boom or bust. Pettitte has the pedigree, Matsuzaka has the hype. No one really knows this one. Edge: pick'em [i know Sox fans will disagree, but this could go anywhere from huge edge yanks to huge edge/no contest sox]. No one really knows.

 

Papelbon vs Johnson. Johnson was the benificiary of a potent Yankees offense. Papelbon was dominant in the pen, but problems with his shoulder lead to question marks. However, I will take Papelbon's youth and skill. It's not like Randy Johnson is the most durable these days either. Edge: Red Sox.

 

Wakefield vs the 2 headed monster. Wakefield will put up the same numbers he does every year. The combination of Igawa and Pavano should yield about the same results as Wakefield does alone. Edge: Who cares?

 

I admit, the Sox rotation has more potential, as they have 3 starters under 30 and are still maturing, against the Yankees one in Wang. However, going into next season, I think there is a slight edge to the Yankees only because of the unknown of Matsuzaka. If he comes as advertised, then the edge is huge to the Red Sox.

 

he's coming, as advertized. We will re-evaluate in a few months, but this kid is going to be a dominant pitcher unlike ones we've seen in awhile in MLB in terms of the bredth of his repetoire and ability to throw 95.

[example1]

Eh...we're in the playoffs. That much I'm pretty sure of. So it doesn't really matter. The 5th starter will go close to .500. For both teams.

 

So you clearly don't think the Red Sox are a threat, huh? If you did then of course you would be worried about the playoffs, cause the Twins, White Sox and Tigers are still there to challenge for a WC spot. No respect for the Sox despite their recent upgrades, the fact that they led the AL East with essentially the same team for much of last year (minus, of course the new SS, #1-2 starter, RF and the three new RPs) and the further development of their young guys? Man oh man... I hope the Yankees miss the playoffs this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Mussina > Schilling

Wang

Pettite

Johnson

Igawa/Pavano

 

There's no question that our rotation is superior.

 

Man, the assumption of Matsuzaka in a new league being better than Pettitte seems a little unfounded for now at least.

 

Wang was the ace and is currently the best pitcher on either staff

Mussina was the 2nd best pitcher between the two teams last season.

Schilling came in at #3. Pettitte would be at #4 followed by Wake at 5. Johnson and Beckett were equally sucky tied at 6. Matsuzaka, Papelbon and Igawa we have no idea.

 

If you want to talk about potential, well it is a double edged sword going both ways anyway. Johnson has the potential and still has the stuff to be an ace. Matsuzaka could be the best Japanese import since Nintendo. Beckett could reach down and find a breaking pitch that he wont bounce. Pettitte could continue his second half surge and be dominant.

 

Who knows, who cares. It is all about how they fit the team, and durability is the most important thing in my mind.

 

1. Randy Johnson is durable. Yes he is coming off another surgery, but the guy has surgery every offseason it seems. But you know what gets me about him? In 1990 he was sent to Seattle and since then, there have been only 3 seasons in which RJ didnt surpass 200 innings, and one of those yrs was in 94 because of the strike. The guy is a durable machine who was uncharacteristically bad without having the bad peripherals you would expect. The only trend was a mild increase in BB/9 (up by 0.7) and a decrease in K/9 (down by 0.8). BAA rose by only 7 points, which could be random variation. HR total dropped by 4. Still less than a hit per inning. What is interesting is the fact that he cannot seem to get out of the big inning. 2 years ago, RJ's opponents OPS with RISP was .717. This season, his OPS w/RISP was .998. 2 seasons ago, his opponents OPS with runners on was .766. Last yr it was .927. Either RJ was the victim of bad luck last yr is something that could be debated. It could also be debated that he no longer has either the balls or the stuff to get himself out of jams. That could be why his peripherals (which are very Schilling-esque) translated into a run higher ERA. One other thing that is going to be an obvious carrot in front of RJ is 300 wins. He is 20 wins away, and having won 17 games last yr while giving up so many runs makes 20 this season possible, even if he vultures them. Very difficult to predict, but it is not out of the realm of possibility to say that he could have an era below 4 next yr or approaching 6. The one thing I will bank on is, barring any setback in recovery, 200 innings like clockwork.

 

2. Mike Mussina The guy is a yearly DL'er. He'll hit the DL again, but he reinvented himself last season. Was 3IP short of 200. K'd 0.7 more per 9IP, walked 0.9/9IP less and had an astronomical 4.91K/BB which was his second highest in his career. His BAA dropped by 43 points, his OPS against dropped by 110 points, his ERA dropped by 0.9 runs per 9, and his WHIP dropped by 0.25. All from slowing down his breaking stuff and embracing age which will increase his longevity and effectiveness. I expect more of the same if he stays healthy, but that is a big if.

 

3. Chien Ming Wang was pretty amazing last season. 218 innings in 33 starts. His ERA was low at 3.63. But that doesnt make him amazing. What is amazing is that he allowed 12 HRs and the third highest GB/FB ratio in the bigs. He has power stuff that he uses to contact, which makes him an innings eater. And it isnt like the hitters dont know its coming. He throws the sinker about 80% of the time, they just cannot lift it. Quote about him essentially say it is like trying to hit a 95 mph bowling ball. His problems are with running teams, something that the sox are not. He is horrible at holding runners. He is a GB pitcher, so speedy hitters reach base a lot on him. He does have a significant injury history. He has ha TJ and two yrs ago was told he needed rotator cuff surgery. Obviously that was poor advice as R and R fixed it up. If healthy, I'd expect more of the same. He'll never be a K pitcher, but he will eat 200 innings, put up a lot of QS's and win a ton of games on a team that will provide him runs. Is he a prototypical ace, absolutely not. But will he give the yankees a very good chance to win any game, regular season or playoffs, that he pitches, absolutely.

 

4. Andy Pettitte is durable. He has reached 190 innings 9 out of the last 11 seasons. Also, if you take his last 3 seasons and subtract out the pre AS break numbers from last yr, you have a pitcher with an era sub 3 in the NL. Not bad. His K rate rose to his second highest rate in any full season last yr at 7.4 per 9. But his walk rate jumped as well, by 1.3 from 05 to 06. His BAA jumped a whopping 54 points from 05 to 06, but if you look at the splits, it is even more impressive. His pre AS BAA was .309 last yr. His post AS BAA was .249 which is right about where his numbers were in 2004. Overall, the guy has always been a 2nd half pitcher, but if he could maintain his second half performance from last yr (provided the AL transfer bump), he should give the yankees a lot of wins based on the O and the pen, a lot of innings and a 4-ish ERA.

 

5. Kei Igawa Nothing known really about this guy except that he is remarkably durable. 200+ innings 5 times in the past 7 yrs and 190+ in 6 of the last 7. Other than that, who the f*** knows.

 

The Yankees needs from their rotation are VASTLY different than what the sox need. The Yankees are going to have a pen that will be a strength and potentially the best lineup in baseball. The downfall of the yankees the previous yrs has not been in the rotation necessarily, but has been because of the durability of the rotation. The bullpen is filled with power arms, but power arms get tired. If this rotation is durable and partially effective, then this team will be very good. If the rotation is effective and durable, then this team will be awesome. But the durability is the key. Now the one thing the yankees have that the sox dont is depth. Pavano is still on this team for now, and would be the #5, but I have a feeling he moves soon. But for now he is the 5/6. Then you have guys like Karstens and Rasner who are not sexy by any means but will eat innings. Karstens averaged 6Ip per start in the minors and then averaged 6.2 last yr in 6 starts. Rasner is a guy who fought arm trouble last season, but is a guy who could go 6 innings on a given day. Will they throw shutouts and be lights out. Not likely. But these guys offer depth that will eat innings when called on and not walk people (Both Rasner and Karstens were pretty good in that area last yr). These 2 are NOT Gabbard and Pauley. Those guys walked a ton of hitters and hence were not around deep into games. Plus, the yankees have 3 top prospects in AAA who are starting pitchers.

 

Overall, the yankees can handle injury better. They should get more innings out of their rotation than the sox will and as long as they reach the magic number of 900 and potentially 1000 then this team is gonna be tough to beat. The edge in my opinion is not useful to tell right now. If every single thing bounces right for both teams, then the sox will have the best rotation (potentially in all of baseball), but we know that isnt always the case. And if injury strikes, then the sox will be in a whole heapin helpin of trouble.

[Plumpamania]

Just to point out Randy Johnson you said right off the bat is durable, then talked about his surgeries, and neglected to talk about the fact he has no cartilidge in one of his knees.

 

I do not think the Yankees will get more IP out of their SP than the Sox. I think the Sox rotation is superior in youth and longevity.

 

The Yankees however do have a better pen, up and down.

[jacksonianmarch]

Just to point out Randy Johnson you said right off the bat is durable, then talked about his surgeries, and neglected to talk about the fact he has no cartilidge in one of his knees.

 

I do not think the Yankees will get more IP out of their SP than the Sox. I think the Sox rotation is superior in youth and longevity.

 

The Yankees however do have a better pen, up and down.

 

He hasnt had cartilage in his knees for 5 years now. It hasnt affected him one bit.

 

As for your durability aspect, I see your point. But I am going off performance here. The sox have younger pitchers, which means they will be handled with kid gloves and their chances of hurting their arms are much greater. As it is, the yankees will have 5 pitchers in their rotation who threw 197IP or more last season (4 in the MLB and one in Japan). We'll see.

[Plumpamania]

And Schilling and Beckett both tossed 200 IP. Matsuzaka is the ideal durable SP. Wakefield is an IP eater, and still nabbed out 140 IP with only 23 GS. Papelbon is the only "question mark" for durability but was a solid SP in the minors.

[jacksonianmarch]

And Schilling and Beckett both tossed 200 IP. Matsuzaka is the ideal durable SP. Wakefield is an IP eater' date=' and still nabbed out 140 IP with only 23 GS. Papelbon is the only "question mark" for durability but was a solid SP in the minors.[/color']

 

Beckett is a major ?? as far as durability. The guy has his first durable season out of many and now he isnt a ?. Schilling started wearing down and wake was injured. Also, expect the sox to protect their 100+mil investment in the arm of Dice K.

[Gom]

So you clearly don't think the Red Sox are a threat' date=' huh? If you did then of course you would be worried about the playoffs, cause the Twins, White Sox and Tigers are still there to challenge for a WC spot. No respect for the Sox despite their recent upgrades, the fact that they led the AL East with essentially the same team for much of last year (minus, of course the new SS, #1-2 starter, RF and the three new RPs) and the further development of their young guys? Man oh man... I hope the Yankees miss the playoffs this year. [/quote']

 

No, I don't view the Red Sox as much of a threat. Considering that we lost Sheffield and Matsui for most of the season last year, and still won the division by 11 games. Respect for the Sox? Try not finishing above 3rd to get respect.

[Cocos Disciples]

If we finish 4th we'll get respect? Go for it!

[jacksonianmarch]

Gom, I sorta feel the same way with the added caveat.

 

As usual, the yankees are built for the regular season, although this season, with the addition of Pettitte, they have the potential to be very strong in the postseason. With the offense, the pen, and the likely high IP potential of this rotation, the yankees should crush the s***** teams and stand tall with the good teams. That will give them likely a 95-100 win regular season. The red sox are going to have more trouble in the regular season. No stability in the pen and a lineup that is still going to have its issues. But they are a team that will contend for the wild card, and if they come into the playoffs with momentum, they will be a team that nobody wants to play.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' I don't view the Red Sox as much of a threat. Considering that we lost Sheffield and Matsui for most of the season last year, and still won the division by 11 games. Respect for the Sox? Try not finishing above 3rd to get respect.[/quote']Tell me how comfortable are you with a two run lead when two men are on base with no one out and Ortiz and Manny coming up. Yeah, you know that feeling of dread that you have. That's respect.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tell me how comfortable are you with a two run lead when two men are on base with no one out and Ortiz and Manny coming up. Yeah' date=' you know that feeling of dread that you have. That's respect.[/quote']

 

that is respect for the best 3-4 combo the game has seen in awhile. The rest of the team, not so much.

[a700hitter]

that is respect for the best 3-4 combo the game has seen in awhile. The rest of the team' date=' not so much.[/quote']That is a brilliant rationalization. That would be like NBA fans during the Bulls run saying that they respected Jordan and Pippin, but not the rest of the team. The Yankees don't have any one that scares us like that.

[jacksonianmarch]

That is a brilliant rationalization. That would be like NBA fans during the Bulls run saying that they respected Jordan and Pippin' date=' but not the rest of the team. The Yankees don't have any one that scares us like that.[/quote']

 

Basketball is much different. One player can take over a game as they can control the ball. In baseball, you theoretically could make the rest of the team beat you. In basketball it is easier said than done.

[a700hitter]

Basketball is much different. One player can take over a game as they can control the ball. In baseball' date=' you theoretically could make the rest of the team beat you. In basketball it is easier said than done.[/quote']Really, so you don't think Manny and Ortiz make all the hitters around them better. How do you account for the fact that they scored more than 900 runs 3 years in a row?

[jacksonianmarch]

Really' date=' so you don't think Manny and Ortiz make all the hitters around them better. How do you account for the fact that they scored more than 900 runs 3 years in a row?[/quote']

 

Manny and Ortiz do make the guys around them better. But at the same time, you had guys like Damon, Varitek in his prime, Mueller as the batting champ, Bellhorn getting on base, Nixon in his prime and Millar was pretty good too. The entire lineup was built with burning pitchers in mind. THAT is why the team was so good. Last season, you lost 30 games of Manny and a week or so of Ortiz, but anyone who watched that team knew that the offense was beatable. You had Crisp playing terribly in Damon's stead, Vtek aging rapidly, Nixon losing all power, Loretta not getting on base like Bellhorn did, and AGon not hitting. Papi and Manny have actually gotten better yet the lineup got worse.

 

Now for the yankees, you say that no one person scares you. That is why a lineup is 9 men deep. This lineup is murder on starting pitchers. Taking pitches, working counts, getting on base. The collective lineup is scary. For the sox, they have 2 scary hitters, and thats about it.

[a700hitter]

Manny and Ortiz do make the guys around them better. But at the same time' date=' you had guys like Damon, Varitek in his prime, Mueller as the batting champ, Bellhorn getting on base, Nixon in his prime and Millar was pretty good too. The entire lineup was built with burning pitchers in mind. THAT is why the team was so good. Last season, you lost 30 games of Manny and a week or so of Ortiz, but anyone who watched that team knew that the offense was beatable. [/quote']In 2005, Bellhorn was a disaster, as was Millar (9 HRs), Nixon (13 HRs), and 2005 Muellar was less productive than 2006 Lowell, but yet they scored over 900 runs. The Red Sox had some injuries in 2006 that hurt the teams production. Rebound years be Varitek and Crisp plus the additions of Lugo and Drew should produce plenty of offense. To sit here and say you don't respect the Red Sox lineup in the safety of the offseason is ridiculous.

[jacksonianmarch]

In 2005' date=' Bellhorn was a disaster, as was Millar (9 HRs), Nixon (13 HRs), and 2005 Muellar was less productive than 2006 Lowell, but yet they scored over 900 runs. The Red Sox had some injuries in 2006 that hurt the teams production. Rebound years be Varitek and Crisp plus the additions of Lugo and Drew should produce plenty of offense. To sit here and say you don't respect the Red Sox lineup in the safety of the offseason is ridiculous.[/quote']

 

Johnny Damon made that offense go. Either way, I respect the 3-4 of the sox. Take out Manny and Ortiz and that lineup couldnt hold at all. Last yr, in NY, they lost a power righty and a power lefty for almost the entire yr and they still led the league in runs scored.

 

Lugo is a nice complementary piece, but I dont think he is a leadoff hitter. Crisp may have been injured, but he was fine by the time the choke came about. Varitek was flat out awful and to expect him to suddenly revert to when he was 30 again is not likely. Nancy may only play 90 games next yr, and this physical finding is not helping his case for durability. If everything bounces well, you will have one of the best lineups in baseball, but your lineup looks very similar to last yrs, and I think the additions are not as big as you may think they are.

[a700hitter]

Johnny Damon made that offense go. Either way, I respect the 3-4 of the sox. Take out Manny and Ortiz and that lineup couldnt hold at all. Last yr, in NY, they lost a power righty and a power lefty for almost the entire yr and they still led the league in runs scored.

 

Lugo is a nice complementary piece, but I dont think he is a leadoff hitter. Crisp may have been injured, but he was fine by the time the choke came about. Varitek was flat out awful and to expect him to suddenly revert to when he was 30 again is not likely. Nancy may only play 90 games next yr, and this physical finding is not helping his case for durability. If everything bounces well, you will have one of the best lineups in baseball, but your lineup looks very similar to last yrs, and I think the additions are not as big as you may think they are.

Lugo will be an upgrade over either Gonzo or Loretta. If Drew can keep himself healthy for just 120 games and WMP gets the remainder of the time and Crisp and Tek stay healthy, the offense should score lots of runs provided Ortiz and Manny also stay healthy. These acquisitions will fill gaping holes. The #5 spot inthe lineup was horrendous and Manny and Ortiz were still a wrecking crew. I hate to think what they will do with some protection.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lugo will be an upgrade over either Gonzo or Loretta. If Drew can keep himself healthy for just 120 games and WMP gets the remainder of the time and Crisp and Tek stay healthy' date=' the offense should score lots of runs provided Ortiz and Manny also stay healthy. These acquisitions will fill gaping holes. The #5 spot inthe lineup was horrendous and Manny and Ortiz were still a wrecking crew. I hate to think what they will do with some protection.[/quote']

 

Protection? .280 20HR is not that scary. Protection was Nixon when he was nasty. Drew is a run of the mill 5 hole hitter with serious durability issues who is being way overpaid.