Joel Pineiro? Seriously?

[Gom]

Who knows what Roger will do. However, a700, it is asinine to believe that JH won't be outbid. He has lost a lot more bids to George than he has won. The only one I can think of is Matsuzaka. You sure have a lot of faith in JH over George based on one negotiation.

 

I think Clemens will go where the money is. There is more money in NY. I think he has more ties to Boston, so all things considered even, he goes to Boston. If the Yankees offer 3 million more, he's a Yankee.

[a700hitter]

Who knows what Roger will do. However, a700, it is asinine to believe that JH won't be outbid. He has lost a lot more bids to George than he has won. The only one I can think of is Matsuzaka. You sure have a lot of faith in JH over George based on one negotiation.

 

I think Clemens will go where the money is. There is more money in NY. I think he has more ties to Boston, so all things considered even, he goes to Boston. If the Yankees offer 3 million more, he's a Yankee.

Matsuzak is the only bid that JH wanted to win. Apparently, they didn't care if Damon re-signed. I can't think of any other instance where JH got outbid by George for aplayer JH really wanted. BTW: Matsuzaka was the whole centerpiece of NY's offseason plan. Too bad.

[jacksonianmarch]

which the sox won in a silent bid. Open the bidding and see if the yankees would be outbid by that much.

[Cocos Disciples]

Trust me, that bid was pretty damn loud.

 

HAHA!

[a700hitter]

which the sox won in a silent bid. Open the bidding and see if the yankees would be outbid by that much.

Excuses and rationalizations.

[jacksonianmarch]

Excuses and rationalizations.

 

excuses? How did the yankees know that someone would bid twice the projected amount for Dice K? Open the bidding, tell Seibu that 51.5mil is what it was going to take and then see if they bite.

[a700hitter]

excuses? How did the yankees know that someone would bid twice the projected amount for Dice K? Open the bidding' date=' tell Seibu that 51.5mil is what it was going to take and then see if they bite.[/quote']They were outbid, period. Everything else is a rationalization and excuse. I am waiting for examples where the Yankees and JH wanted the same guy and JH lost. You seem to think there is a pattern of that happening.

[jacksonianmarch]

They were outbid' date=' period. Everything else is a rationalization and excuse. I am waiting for examples where the Yankees and JH wanted the same guy and JH lost. You seem to think there is a pattern of that happening.[/quote']

 

No, it is not rationalization. Tell me ONE time where JH outbid Steinbrenner for one player when the bids were not silent? Tell me one time when George knew the price it would take and he didnt go that far letting a player go to boston. Cmon. Lets hear it. ZERO. When bargaining with Boston, George calls the players agent and says, what will it take to get a deal done. He doesnt ********, he doesnt lowball, this is what he does. If Matsu was a full out FA and if George REALLY wanted Matsuzaka, he is a yankee. Plain and simple.

[Cocos Disciples]

But oops...he's not.

 

Sorry!

[jacksonianmarch]

You are right. He's not.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' it is not rationalization. Tell me ONE time where JH outbid Steinbrenner for one player when the bids were not silent? Tell me one time when George knew the price it would take and he didnt go that far letting a player go to boston. Cmon. Lets hear it. ZERO. When bargaining with Boston, George calls the players agent and says, what will it take to get a deal done. He doesnt ********, he doesnt lowball, this is what he does. If Matsu was a full out FA and if George REALLY wanted Matsuzaka, he is a yankee. Plain and simple.[/quote']...and the examples that I asked for?

[jacksonianmarch]

...and the examples that I asked for?

 

He wanted to keep Damon, George got him. Dont fool yourself into thinking they didnt want him. They held a frickin press conference when they didnt get him.

 

Jose Contreras- hence the coining of the phrase evil empire.

 

They got ARod after he was supposed to be going to Boston, but they balked because of $$. Didnt seem to be a problem for George.

 

Abreu, the yankees got Bobby last yr hence the term "we arent the yankees" coming about and all the yankees gave up was a falling prospect and a 27 yr old lefty specialist.

[Cocos Disciples]

Didn't the Yankees want Ortiz?

 

Of course, there are countless other examples of the Yankees beating the Sox...Bernie Williams comes to mind.

[jacksonianmarch]

Didn't the Yankees want Ortiz?

 

Of course, there are countless other examples of the Yankees beating the Sox...Bernie Williams comes to mind.

 

The Yankees wanted Ortiz, but they had Giambroids and Nick Johnson, so Ortiz chose the sox over NY. I even think the yankees offered more $ but Papi chose opportunity and he made the right choice.

[Cocos Disciples]

Come to think of it, didn't George get mad at Cashman for not offering Ortiz a contract?

[a700hitter]

He wanted to keep Damon' date=' George got him. Dont fool yourself into thinking they didnt want him. They held a frickin press conference when they didnt get him.[/quote']Although I think it was a collosal mistake to let him walk, I think it is clear that they didn't care, and they already had their sights on Coco. Making one offer and not negotiating shows me that they were not serious. I think Damon is on record as having felt disrespected. This was a case of not wanting the guy, not a case of being outbid. Nevertheless it was a big blunder. It is precisely because of this case that the Red Sox will never let it happen again.

Jose Contreras- hence the coining of the phrase evil empire.

My recollection of that episode is that Contreras wanted to play for the Yankees. There wasn't much they could do about that. I don't remember that they got their final offer on the table.

 

They got ARod after he was supposed to be going to Boston' date=' but they balked because of $$. Didnt seem to be a problem for George.[/quote']This was not a case of the Red Sox and Yankees bidding against each other. I don't think this was even a case of the Yankees coming up with more money. Soriano was substantially cheaper than Manny, so Texas was willing to eat more of ARod's salary. If Texas was willing to let the Red Sox pay AROD only $15 million/year and they would pick up the rest plus Manny's salary, he would have been a Red Sox. The Red Sox were willing to pay more than the Yankees paid. You are you are talking out of your ass on this one.

Abreu' date=' the yankees got Bobby last yr hence the term "we arent the yankees" coming about and all the yankees gave up was a falling prospect and a 27 yr old lefty specialist.[/quote']Not getting Abreu was IMO a mistake. But was this a case of outbidding? The Yankees gave the Phillies a take it or leave it offer for the full amount, and the Red Sox never got a chance to counter, but I'll not make any excuses. They outmaneuvered the Red Sox on this one. I'll give you this one.

[a700hitter]

Of course' date=' there are countless other examples of the Yankees beating the Sox...Bernie Williams comes to mind.[/quote']I don't think that was this ownership group.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Rangers were going to make the difference between the Manny and ARod contract negligible. Hence, the sox would not be taking on any extra cash to their payroll. Taking on ARod added 16 million to the payroll. Therein lies your difference. The sox were haggling over trying to get the most expensive player in baseball while trying to lessen their payroll. The Yankees increased their payroll substantially with their move.

[jacksonianmarch]

also, feeling disrespected and not trying to sign someone are two different beasts altogether. Pettitte felt disrespected when the yankees didnt make an offer to him while they were getting Sheffield and Kevin Brown. It didnt mean the yankees didnt want him, they ended up offering more money than Houston did. The same thing goes for Damon, except for the money issue. Henry thought that nobody would give Damon more than a 4/40. He knew the yankees were involved somehow. He called Damon's bluff and lost. He was outmanuevered.

[a700hitter]

also' date=' feeling disrespected and not trying to sign someone are two different beasts altogether. Pettitte felt disrespected when the yankees didnt make an offer to him while they were getting Sheffield and Kevin Brown. It didnt mean the yankees didnt want him, they ended up offering more money than Houston did. The same thing goes for Damon, except for the money issue. Henry thought that nobody would give Damon more than a 4/40. He knew the yankees were involved somehow. He called Damon's bluff and lost. He was outmanuevered.[/quote']The Red Sox never made a second offer. In a serious negotiation, no one makes their best offer their first offer .

[a700hitter]

The Rangers were going to make the difference between the Manny and ARod contract negligible. Hence' date=' the sox would not be taking on any extra cash to their payroll. Taking on ARod added 16 million to the payroll. Therein lies your difference. The sox were haggling over trying to get the most expensive player in baseball while trying to lessen their payroll. The Yankees increased their payroll substantially with their move.[/quote']The Red Sox were not bidding against the Yankees, so claiming victory for outbidding the Red Sox is ridiculous. This was a trade not FA bid. The Red Sox were giving up a future HOFer in Manny. Will Soriano be going to the Hall?