Could Brad Lidge be the final piece?

[scaffolds]

Both are useless. Crisp and Williams. At least Lidge has a serious upside. Houston would be idiotic to move the guy for a has been or a never gonna be.

 

Coco Crisp, a has been, you must be watching a different player than i have been in the last three years. As a matter fact I take Coco over Melky Cabrera anytime.

[TGov]

I'd hate to see Coco go, He really is a great player, he was injured last yr and everyone is on his ass about it... BUT...

I think it would make sense, I mean if we got Lidge, we have a closer, and then Wily Mo can play CF and then Ellsbury will be ready for the year afterwards... so itll be a good trade...

 

but then the Astros will be stuck without a closer, so it comes down to if they want to go after a closer or a CF...

[Cityofchampions33]

I agree, I think we were a bit too impatient with Coco. If we get a good closer with him though, Ill be cool. Then again, we got Ellsbury comin up n he would take Cocos place anyway

[Beckett95]

Coco for Lidge straight up???

 

ABSOLUTELY

[TedWilliams101]

I would much rather to see Wily Mo K-out shipped out, even if it means a package, than to see crisp go. Think about it. A 5 year old has better defensive skill than wily mo. And I think crisp is a far better and more consistant bat. Everyone is talking about the upside of wily mo. One of the main reasons he has high strike out rates is becuase he doesn't have a great eye. You can't teach someone how to see the ball well. You can improve discipline a bit, but you can't get them to see the ball better. And thats just his offensive problems. I don't think I need to say anything about his lack of a glove.

[rician blast]

WMP starting in CF.

 

The thought scares me.

 

6 words:

the horror

the horror

the horror

[TedWilliams101]

If Wily Mo was our starting CF, i would probably have to hold my breath and cover my eyes everytime a ball was hit out there. I don't want to have to go through that...

[SuperManny]

If Wily Mo was our starting CF' date=' i would probably have to hold my breath and cover my eyes everytime a ball was hit out there. I don't want to have to go through that...[/quote']

 

WMP had exactly 0 errors in 194 innings while in CF last year and had higher defensive ratings in every single metric than Coco. If you hold your breath and cover your eyes I can't imagine what you do when Coco is out there. WMP wasn't good at all in RF but he was respectable in CF. Coco was a mess in CF as he rated as one of the worst in baseball. You can call it the injury but he injured his finger not his legs.

[TedWilliams101]

I'm sorry, but you must not be very intelligent. Yes, Wily Mo didn't commit an error in CF during the course of 27 games (194 innings). However, he also has below average speed and doesn't get very good reads on the ball, meaning a very bad approach.

 

Now Coco only committed 1 error over the course of 103 games (900 innings). He played more than 4 times as many games, so an argument over his 1 error vs. Wily's 0 in CF is ridiculous. Coco also had 3 assists and 3 DP. But the real difference is athleticism. Coco has great speed, generally has a good read on the ball and takes the best approach, and he makes spectacular plays. How many amazing catches did he make last season, 10? 15?. I still remember that catch he made when he leaped into the air, was horizontal to the ground, and reached behind him to make the grab. Unbelievable. You won't ever see Wily making plays even 1/2 as good as that.

 

If you think Wily Mo is even a 1/10 as good a fielder as Coco, you know absolutely nothing about baseball and I'd advise you to leave this forum and quite pretending your a fan of a sport you know nothing about.

[schillingouttheks]

WMP starting in CF.

 

The thought scares me.

 

6 words:

the horror

the horror

the horror

 

I just finished that book. I was confused as all hell when reading it <_>

[a700hitter]

Crisp is...useless...? Did you type that with a straight face?

He also thought that super-agent Scott Bore-ass might buy Matsuzaka's contract from the Seibu Lions to free him from the bonds of slavery.

[a700hitter]

Get Lidge or Cordero and they are ready to rock and roll.

[Gom]

Coco Crisp' date=' a has been, you must be watching a different player than i have been in the last three years. As a matter fact I take Coco over Melky Cabrera anytime.[/quote']

 

No, Bernie Williams is the has-been. Crisp is the never gonna be.

 

He also thought that super-agent Scott Bore-ass might buy Matsuzaka's contract from the Seibu Lions to free him from the bonds of slavery.

 

I wasn't the only one. Many thought it was a possibility, and I am actually surprised that your front office signed him for as low as they did. In this market, you guys lucked out.

 

The fact that you entertain the thought of someone like Crisp as a solid player shows how much you guys buy into your own hype. Melky Cabrera? A fourth outfielder at best. The media portrays him as some young phenom who plays the game with joy in NY, and that makes him so valuable. Look at his stats, he is a below average offensive outfielder.

 

Buy into that crap. It is that thought process that keeps you guys behind us. Melky Cabrera....our fourth outfielder by a long shot. WMP and Crisp should not be starting for you guys. I for one, am glad that at least one of them will.

[BSN07]

I don't anticipate us getting Lidge. His name has been off the market so to speak for about a month now. If we trade I think we go for Cordero, even tho we will most likely have to give up more. I watched Cordero pitch in DC in 2005, he has great stuff and for a young guy his confidence level is right where you want it. He is reliable, and for his age has alot of experience closing games. His number might inflate a little coming to the AL East, but since hes so young there still time for him to adjust and bring them back down.

 

If not Cordero or Lidge, the theres Gonzalez, but NYY are offering Proctor and Melky( which is absurd). If NYY is going to give that much up, i'd rather not see us top that deal, again if we had to give up that much Id rather it be Cordero.

 

Then we have internal option, Hansen,Hansack both are big ?'s, but so was Paps heading into the season.

 

My darkhorse pick( this is just me taking a guess for fun) Would be Bard. Yes I know hes a starter and hasn't been passed AA, but it be fun to watch him come in for one inning and let it rip at 100MPH, he hits 95-98 regulary during starts. You can get away with a little more when you hit 100MPH and only pitching one inning wouldnt be to stressful on his arm. Trust me I don't really expect to see this, I just felt like putting it out there:D

[Cityofchampions33]

Id rather have Cordero big time. He's younger, cheaper, and should develop into one of the best in the game soon enough. Plus he does look cool with the flat brim.

[ORS]

Are you serious? Just when I think you are getting close to reality, you say something like this. Hey, I have an idea! Why don't the YANKEES sign Bernie Williams and trade him for Lidge!!! I mean, Williams had a better year than Coco at the plate! Do you realize the ridicule I would get here if I even dared to mention this in all seriousness?

 

If you are going to use the 2005 stats for Crisp, then you should do the same with Lidge. An .810 ops outfielder for a guy who had a 2.29 ERA, 103K in 70 IP, and a 1.15 WHIP? Get real.

 

Come on ORS, you are better than that.

You misread the message of my post. I acknowledged that both players have warts. Crisp's can be explained by an injury. Lidge has no physical explanation for his awful year. Which would weigh heavier on your conscience in regards to future potential, a guy who was bad when hurt, or a guy who was just bad?

 

I don't argue that Crisp is good enough to get Lidge when he's at the top of his game, but he isn't and nobody knows when he can/will be again. When healthy, Crisp will likely progress into a 7 WARP player. That is quite good.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to make that trade because it creates another hole. The idea of WMP playing a significant amount of games in CF doesn't sit well with me. I think WMP is the player to move.

[BoSox21]

I do like the fact that it's only mid-December and we only have our bullpen to worry about now. I'm not too worried

[BSN07]

Yes that is nice. Just aslong as we keep Manny this year I think where looking decent.

 

I think Manny gets moved next offseason with 1 year left on his contract, or they could activate one of his options, then he has 2 years and someone might want him. I want Manny to stay but he will probably do his normal routine next year again, but this time I think he gets moved and we bring in one of the big CF to replace his bat( and basically his contract). I'm guessing Jones at this point out of the three.

 

With a couple months to sit back and re tool the bullpen and not have to concentrate on anything else( SS,RF,SP,2B ), they do look to be heading in a good direction for this season and many to come.:thumbsup:

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes that is nice. Just aslong as we keep Manny this year I think where looking decent.

 

I think Manny gets moved next offseason with 1 year left on his contract, or they could activate one of his options, then he has 2 years and someone might want him. I want Manny to stay but he will probably do his normal routine next year again, but this time I think he gets moved and we bring in one of the big CF to replace his bat( and basically his contract). I'm guessing Jones at this point out of the three.

 

With a couple months to sit back and re tool the bullpen and not have to concentrate on anything else( SS,RF,SP,2B ), they do look to be heading in a good direction for this season and many to come.:thumbsup:

 

the problem being, the best FA options for the pen are gone. Theo has always seemed to be lax on securing the bullpen and this yr it is very evident. Maybe he got burned a bit by signing Foulke and is afraid to throw big money long term to a closer? Maybe he felt this yrs crop was putrid and is willing to trade? Who knows, but 3 yrs ago he started the yr with a top tier FA closer and added it to a solid rotation and solid offense and he won a title. I would think he'd see the need for the same this time too.

[BSN07]

He stated in an interview that he was not willing to invest big money in MR. Saying that the going rate for MR pitchers in this years market was too hi and he didnt feel comfortable doing what other teams where doing. Which I agree with him, even tho our pen sucks atleast its not full of mediocre pitchers that are making a ton of money like the Baltimore.

 

I think if anyone has payed attention to interviews and articles( which I do cause I have nothing better to do besides read on the internet all day while I wait for a work permit) you would know that the sox weren't going to go and pay big money for MR. Maybe a closer if the deal was right. They should be getting somebody from the Marlins, because they want our CF Murphy, and I expect they will trade for either Cordero,Lidge or Otsaka for closer, or go with a young guy like they did with Paps last year.

 

Timlin,Okjima,MDC,Hansen,Taveras is a decent start, nothing to boost about but not the worst either, add in a couple guys from trades and its and avg. to slightly above avg. pen( if we get a good closer). BP's unless you are LAA are very different from year to year, you more or less have to go the first half of the season and see what you got. NYY I would say is in better shape BP wise then the Sox. But if Proctor gets traded I think that really deminshes the quality, MO and Proctor are the dependable guys. Farsnworth is shaky at best. If proctor gets dealt I think the only thing better in your pen then in ours is obviously closer. Gonzalez is an unknown at this point if he is traded form the Pirates to NYY.

[jacksonianmarch]

well then Theo is dooming his team to the exact same fate that he has led his previous teams to. He believes that a pen is something that you throw a few pitchers into and poof, it works. He is wrong, and his philosophy is flawed. The one yr he fills the pen with solid vets and caps it off with a solid closer, he wins a world series. Coincidence, I think not.

 

As for the marlins, their pen is BAD. Tankersley is the only guy worth his salt and even he is a work in progress. Plus, the marlins want ellsbury for him, and that aint gonna fly.

[jacksonianmarch]

\Timlin is breaking down, BIG time. His 6+ era after the AS break should be an indicator that he needs to have the gas let off of him a little. He cannot handle the setup role anymore, let alone closer. Okajima sounds like a matchup lefty to me. MDC and Hansen were failures in the pen last season. Tavares was a failure in the pen too, but he was good in the rotation. Right now, nothing looks like a good start in the pen. 2 solid workhorse pitchers and the rest of that pen may fall into line with a decreased workload. But if that is your bridge or if that is your pen, then a miracle would have to happen for the sox to make it very far.

[BSN07]

Timlin strained his shoulder in the WBC and never recovered.

 

Okijima is a question mark

 

MDC and Hansen where great until Tek went down and they had no guidance, plus it was the first years, look for both to be better with some experience under there bealt. I'm sure they hit that perverbial wall too, just like Paps did, most rookies do.

 

Taveras looked lost for the first part of the season and when Seanez got cut it looked like he found his way again(maybe a wake up call or because he was starting) either way he showed he can still get batters out.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hansen- he was putrid throughout.

 

MDC- he imploded in september, which was when tek returned.

 

Timlin strained his shoulder in the WBC. Well, I dont buy that at all. He started out great then faded. So I would think the wear and tear got to it rather than an initial strain.

[jacksonianmarch]

as for Tavares, he found it again when he hit the mound. He was completely lost in the pen. His era was 4.71 in the pen and 4.01 in the rotation. 4.71 is very bad, especially when you also have a 1.5+ whip.

[ORS]

Bosox, don't let Jacko get you down. That's what he wants. On the heels of the biggest and best news for the Sox this offseason, he's trying to let the air out of the balloon. And that won't end. Once the Sox get a closer, the setup man will come into question. If they get a setup man, the bench will be ridiculed. If they improve the bench, the bat boy will be found inadequate. Once they upgrade the bat boy, he'll be questioning the quality of the food at Fenway. It will never end.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bosox' date=' don't let Jacko get you down. That's what he wants. On the heels of the biggest and best news for the Sox this offseason, he's trying to let the air out of the balloon. And that won't end. Once the Sox get a closer, the setup man will come into question. If they get a setup man, the bench will be ridiculed. If they improve the bench, the bat boy will be found inadequate. Once they upgrade the bat boy, he'll be questioning the quality of the food at Fenway. It will never end.[/quote']

 

I love fenway food. The franks are very good, but as always way overpriced.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bosox' date=' don't let Jacko get you down. That's what he wants. On the heels of the biggest and best news for the Sox this offseason, he's trying to let the air out of the balloon. And that won't end. Once the Sox get a closer, the setup man will come into question. If they get a setup man, the bench will be ridiculed. If they improve the bench, the bat boy will be found inadequate. Once they upgrade the bat boy, he'll be questioning the quality of the food at Fenway. It will never end.[/quote']

 

right now, the sox have no closer. I have been harping on this even before the sox got anybody. This was their downfall. It hasnt been addressed.

[BSN07]

LOL ORS I know how he is, but Jackson usally plays nice with me so I wont get on him to bad. I know he will always find flaws, I just try to show him a different view to what he sees.

[BSN07]

But like you said Jackson there is no one available on the FA market. And don't give me the Gagne spin either, he was too much for too big of risk. They will have to trade for one or create one again and go from there. Theres nothing saying they cant give someone a chance and then trade. Yes you lose some games but you also might get a Papelbon out of it too. Thats something I am willing to deal with for the first few months of the season.