Winter Meetings Updates

[schillingouttheks]

Damon's declining in talent?

[jacksonianmarch]

The difference btwn the sox and yanks are that the sox sign young players that are ready to hit their peek' date=' the yanks are famous for signing talent that is declining in talent [johnson, damon'].

 

the only 2 differencea iare that the yankees have been able to absorb the horrible signings and get just a little bit more out of who they get than the sox did. AND, the yankees hang onto their players for the most part (Pettitte not withstanding). There are certain parts of your team that you cannot merc out, and for the yankees, it was Jeter, Posada and Rivera. For the sox, that was Petey and Damon, and it was obviously a factor these last 2 yrs (1 for Damon).

 

Another minor difference, is that for all the fanfare the sox minor league system has gotten over the yankees for the past few yrs, the yankees sure have produced more of their own talent. Proctor, Cano, and Wang to name a few were recent callups from within their system (proctor was traded for when he was still a minor leaguer). While the sox just have Papelbon and a few maybes right now.

[a700hitter]

LOL! Go get 'em Jacksonian!

 

I think the Sox fans are realizing that if this all doesn't pan out for them, they have effectively hamstrung themselves for the next 4 years. Drew and Lugo for $100 million? LOL!

 

Expect to see half of the players signed this winter to be dangled at the trade deadline this year or next.

The boredom of your team doing nothing except get a couple of AA guys is really starting to wear on you. Lugo and Drew may not be All Stars, but they aren't bad and they are upgrades, and we deprived the Yankee FO of the one player they wanted this offseason- Matsuzaka. He's all they wanted and they f***ed up. Go get Andy Pettitte. I'm sure hell be at the top of his game.

[jacksonianmarch]

what you arent getting is that the yankees didnt need as much as the sox did. They took care of their immediate needs by getting rid of the malcontent and the pathetic inning usurper in Wright. They have a full pen. Their lineup is set aside from a right handed defensive 1b. They got a left handed japanese pitcher and are currently 1 rotation spot away from completing their team. Their offseason is a bit boring, but adding Pettitte would make things a little safer. Otherwise, it will be status quo in the top 3 of the rotation and the kids or pussano could fill the 5. They still have a team that should be favorites to win the east. Adding pettitte will only raise those chances.

[a700hitter]

what you arent getting is that the yankees didnt need as much as the sox did. They took care of their immediate needs by getting rid of the malcontent and the pathetic inning usurper in Wright. They have a full pen. Their lineup is set aside from a right handed defensive 1b. They got a left handed japanese pitcher and are currently 1 rotation spot away from completing their team. Their offseason is a bit boring' date=' but adding Pettitte would make things a little safer. Otherwise, it will be status quo in the top 3 of the rotation and the kids or pussano could fill the 5. They still have a team that should be favorites to win the east. Adding pettitte will only raise those chances.[/quote']You are right. They have almost the identical team, albeit a little weaker by losing Sheff, as the team that rolled over and got humiliated by the Tigers. And they are one year older.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are right. They have almost the identical team' date=' albeit a little weaker by losing Sheff, as the team that rolled over and got humiliated by the Tigers. And they are one year older.[/quote']

 

they will have a full yr of Matsui and likely better stability at the back end of the rotation (which was the killer of this team).

[a700hitter]

they will have a full yr of Matsui and likely better stability at the back end of the rotation (which was the killer of this team).

I guess it wasn't the real Matsui during the playoffs.:dunno:

[jacksonianmarch]

I guess it wasn't the real Matsui during the playoffs.:dunno:

 

They also had Jaret Wright throwing in game 4 and Torre had burned his pen to a point of not being confident in them in game 2.

[a700hitter]

...and Torre had burned his pen to a point of not being confident in them in game 2.

...and Torre is going to change this managerial style this year?

[Gom]

...and Torre is going to change this managerial style this year?

 

As Yankee fans, we can only pray. What's up Schillingouttheks?

[TheKilo]

they will have a full yr of Matsui and likely better stability at the back end of the rotation (which was the killer of this team).

 

 

You say that like Matsui's replacements didn't do a more than adequate job of filling in.

 

His loss wasn't felt THAT much.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I'm not sure if its been mentioned but the Atlanta Braves are looking into getting Rocco Baldelli. Now that doesn't necessarily mean much except....he plays CF. Just so happens the Braves have Andruw Jones in CF.

 

IF the Braves were to get Baldelli.....I bet they would be interested in a deal either involving Manny Ramirez or a three way deal in which Andruw Jones ultimatly ends up in Boston.

[riverside sluggers]

They also had Jaret Wright throwing in game 4 and Torre had burned his pen to a point of not being confident in them in game 2.

 

Yeah its not like Torre has burned his pen by the playoffs before...

[seabeachfred]

the only 2 differencea iare that the yankees have been able to absorb the horrible signings and get just a little bit more out of who they get than the sox did. AND, the yankees hang onto their players for the most part (Pettitte not withstanding). There are certain parts of your team that you cannot merc out, and for the yankees, it was Jeter, Posada and Rivera. For the sox, that was Petey and Damon, and it was obviously a factor these last 2 yrs (1 for Damon).

 

Another minor difference, is that for all the fanfare the sox minor league system has gotten over the yankees for the past few yrs, the yankees sure have produced more of their own talent. Proctor, Cano, and Wang to name a few were recent callups from within their system (proctor was traded for when he was still a minor leaguer). While the sox just have Papelbon and a few maybes right now.

 

Right Jackson---and all us Red Sox fans should take heed of that. We keep talking about our young players and then we see a completely veteran team on the field. It took Youk until 27 to make the starting lineup and that is why they have to clear the field for Dustin Pedroia to make it this year, and get ready for Jacoby Ellsbury in 2008, unless he tears up Triple AAA in '07 and forces his way up. As for our pitchers, we have had little more luck there, both good and bad. Papelbon has been a sensation, Lester was going well until he was diagnosed with lymphoma and that probably inhibitied him from doing even better this past season. Hansen and Delcarmen? Well the jury is still out on them. I think Hansen will eventually become a servicable reliever for us. MDC? I didn't like what I saw from him last season.

[Bosoxwest]

Hansen and Delcarmen? Well the jury is still out on them. I think Hansen will eventually become a servicable reliever for us. MDC? I didn't like what I saw from him last season.

 

I'm completely reversed here. Hansen's delivery was reportedly altered somewhat to reduce stress on his arm, and he never looked comfortable or threw the stuff he was touted as having. I don't feel at all comfortable that he'll adapt well enough to be an impact reliever in the near future.

 

MDC on the othe hand was very productive early, but was hampered by a finger injury that affected his secondary pitches. He also was pretty unlucky according to BPs DH stat (11). If healthy he's advanced to the point where he should definitely contribute in 2007.

 

The Yanks-Red Sox development argument is pointless. The Yankees spent years not caring about development and were pleasantly surprised by Wang and Cano. Cabrera is filler who benefited from a steady diet of fastballs by being in the NY lineup. Hughes will be their first work of art.

 

Similarly, the Sox have been poor at development historically. Only Paps is truly special, although Ellsbury could be in the near future. Lester, MDC, Hansen and Pedroia should contribute, but probably not excel.

 

Both teams have the resources and talent to field post-season ready teams, with the Yanks having a larger margin for error. This year, like every other, it will come down to playing the games.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm completely reversed here. Hansen's delivery was reportedly altered somewhat to reduce stress on his arm, and he never looked comfortable or threw the stuff he was touted as having. I don't feel at all comfortable that he'll adapt well enough to be an impact reliever in the near future.

 

MDC on the othe hand was very productive early, but was hampered by a finger injury that affected his secondary pitches. He also was pretty unlucky according to BPs DH stat (11). If healthy he's advanced to the point where he should definitely contribute in 2007.

 

The Yanks-Red Sox development argument is pointless. The Yankees spent years not caring about development and were pleasantly surprised by Wang and Cano. Cabrera is filler who benefited from a steady diet of fastballs by being in the NY lineup. Hughes will be their first work of art.

 

Similarly, the Sox have been poor at development historically. Only Paps is truly special, although Ellsbury could be in the near future. Lester, MDC, Hansen and Pedroia should contribute, but probably not excel.

 

Both teams have the resources and talent to field post-season ready teams, with the Yanks having a larger margin for error. This year, like every other, it will come down to playing the games.

 

again, how can you even say that Melky is a "filler". Garbage on your end. A 21 yr old rookie comes up and hits .280 with some pop. At 21. Yeah, sounds like a filler to me. You guys would kill someone if Pedroia could put up what Melky did during 06.

 

.280 7HR 50RBI .360OBP .391SLG

[riverside sluggers]

Hard for Pedroia to do that in a grand total of 82 ABs, he could have close to those numbers in a full season which Melky had. Also Melky had the advantage of being in the majors fresh starting a new season. Pedroia had already been through 400+ ABs in the minors and long bus rides, theres a difference

[jacksonianmarch]

Hard for Pedroia to do that in a grand total of 82 ABs' date=' he could have close to those numbers in a full season which Melky had. Also Melky had the advantage of being in the majors fresh starting a new season. Pedroia had already been through 400+ ABs in the minors and long bus rides, theres a difference[/quote']

 

No, I am saying for 2007. If Pedroia came up and gave you guys a .280 average with a .360 OBP you guys would be s***ing yourselves in joy.

[CrespoBlows]

No' date=' I am saying for 2007. If Pedroia came up and gave you guys a .280 average with a .360 OBP you guys would be s***ing yourselves in joy.[/quote']

 

No doubt. I'd be even more ecstatic, because Pedroia is a second basemen. If Pedroia was my left fielder, I'd be disappointed. No way, I'd want a regular outfielder with a .391 SLG%.

[ORS]

No doubt. I'd be even more ecstatic' date=' because Pedroia is a second basemen. If Pedroia was my left fielder, I'd be disappointed. No way, I'd want a regular outfielder with a .391 SLG%.[/quote']

Bingo. Although, it would be more upsetting from a COF. Depending on OBP and defense, I could stomach a .391 SLG from my CF.

[jacksonianmarch]

but he is 21. He will develop some power over time. I dont see 30HR in his future, but if a 21 yr old can show me that type of plate discipline, then the direction can only be up for his growth. A .400OBP cannot be that out of reach for his future, and I'd take a .400OBP from a home grown kid from anywhere on the field. Plus he has some speed and he is a switch hitter. I think the kid is going to be good, but sadly, I think it will be with another team.

[CrespoBlows]

but he is 21. He will develop some power over time. I dont see 30HR in his future' date=' but if a 21 yr old can show me that type of plate discipline, then the direction can only be up for his growth. A .400OBP cannot be that out of reach for his future, and I'd take a .400OBP from a home grown kid from anywhere on the field. Plus he has some speed and he is a switch hitter. I think the kid is going to be good, but sadly, I think it will be with another team.[/quote']

 

I'd agree with that statement.

 

I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he's a very good fourth outfielder. Maybe an average outfielder.

[jacksonianmarch]

only 2 players who qualified as OFs last yr had an OBP of .400 or higher, abreu and manny. That is where I see Melky after a few yrs of seasoning. I have never seen a rookie come up and have such great plate discipline plus ability to fight off pitches. He is a future 100 walk player if he can stay healthy and improve.

[ORS]

It doesn't strike you as odd that a guy with a career IsoD of about .050 in the minors all of a sudden jumps to .080 in the majors? It would be one thing if it was a skill he demonstrated all through the minors, but that came out of nowhere.

 

In one of our discussions about Pedroia, you said he's got no shot at a .360 OBP because he doesn't walk enough. I pointed out his .080 IsoD in the minors, and you said that goes down when you hit the bigs.

 

Are you recanting that now, or is this another instance of double opinions (good for the Yanks, bad for the Sox) on a subject?

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I am looking at what he did in the major leagues at 21. The guy was okay as a minor leaguer until last season in AAA when he was absolutely on fire. He hit .385 before his callup. Then he comes in and posts an OBP of .360 in almost a full season. I'll take that to the bank over minor league numbers any day of the week.

[ORS]

Stop being dense. I'm not taking the MiLB numbers. What I'm saying is the MiLB numbers constitute the greater sample size, so they are more reliable for statistical trends within a players stat line. The trends I'm refering too are IsoP and IsoD. These relate power and eye to the BA. Good SLG% and OBP% can be BA heavy and misleading.

 

Melky, even when hitting .385, was rarely above .050 in IsoD. You said you love his patience, so I think you should cuddle with it a little, because, according to the larger sample size, it might not be sticking around.

[jacksonianmarch]

or maybe it is due to his maturing. You see any kid in their teens in the minors and they hack away at almost anything. My point is that this kid is now 21 and showed a ton of patience. Its not like that usually goes away, but typically improves as you age.

[ORS]

Right. Maturing. Is that why his IsoD in AAA was .045 during the same year? Maturing? f***ing hilarious.

[a700hitter]

The league had figuer out Melky by the end of the year. The Yankees should move him while his value is high. The same can be said for Youklis.

[riverside sluggers]

The league had figuer out Melky by the end of the year. The Yankees should move him while his value is high. The same can be said for Youklis.

 

At least keep him around for another season, besides Adam Dunn (who can play 1st) is a free agent after 2007. Even then the Sox can have a serviceable 3rd baseman defender with good OBP skills in Youkilis, and add a big bopper in Adam Dunn