Yankees win rights to LHP Igawa

[jacksonianmarch]

25-26 mil for a guy with a proposed ceiling of a #3 starter. Sounds like Zito in stuff with better control. But there is a reason why there has been only one Barry Zito, because it takes an extraordinary pitcher to take one plus plus pitch and mediocre fastball and become a solid winning pitcher.

 

BTW, Cashman has confirmed that the yankees now hold his rights.

[Papelbon58]

wow, 2 japanese number 3 starters on the same team! that is going international

[Beckett95]

whos the second one?

 

Wang's from Taiwan

 

and Wangs a #1-2 starter

[jacksonianmarch]

wow' date=' 2 japanese number 3 starters on the same team! that is going international[/quote']

 

Wang is not a 3 and he is not japanese. He is taiwanese.

[Papelbon58]

sorry, I can go with 2 but there is no way Wang is a bonafide ace

[jacksonianmarch]

sorry' date=' I can go with 2 but there is no way Wang is a bonafide ace[/quote']

 

He was better than any red sox pitcher, he finished #2 in the Cy Young voting and he is the second best pitcher in the AL East (btw, Halladay should have been #2 in CY voting, but wang as a 3 was valid). He was tied for the highest win total in baseball. Need I go on? He was an ace, plain and simple last season and to credit him for anything less is sheer homerism.

[jsinger121]

He was good last year but with any sinker ball pitcher that can change from year to year.

[jacksonianmarch]

He was good last year but with any sinker ball pitcher that can change from year to year.

 

That is usually the case in aging sinkerballers. A 95mph sinker is a whole lot harder to lift than a 90mph sinkerball. That is why so many sinkerballers really tank when they age. Their stuff is so velocity dependent that they have to adapt or be left behind. At 26, Wang has about 7-10 good yrs left before you see that happening.

[a700hitter]

That is usually the case in aging sinkerballers. A 95mph sinker is a whole lot harder to lift than a 90mph sinkerball. That is why so many sinkerballers really tank when they age. Their stuff is so velocity dependent that they have to adapt or be left behind. At 26' date=' Wang has about 7-10 good yrs left before you see that happening.[/b']

This is nothing but conjecture. A pitcher with a history of shoulder problems can lose velocity over night. You have n't got the foggiest idea of how long he'll be able to maintain his current velocity.

[Rdsxmbnt]

speaking of sinkerballers, Derek Lowe has had two nice seasons with LA, that 9mil per year sure looks a lot better now than when he originally got that contract

[jacksonianmarch]

This is nothing but conjecture. A pitcher with a history of shoulder problems can lose velocity over night. You have n't got the foggiest idea of how long he'll be able to maintain his current velocity.

 

at the current MLB standard, a pitcher typically loses velocity in the 33-36yr old range. If he loses it before then, well, s*** luck I guess.

[jsinger121]

at the current MLB standard' date=' a pitcher typically loses velocity in the 33-36yr old range. If he loses it before then, well, s*** luck I guess.[/quote']

 

Yes but Wang has had shoulder troubles in the past so he could lose velocity if that comes up again. Its not out of the question.

[a700hitter]

at the current MLB standard' date=' a pitcher typically loses velocity in the 33-36yr old range. If he loses it before then, well, s*** luck I guess.[/quote']conjecture.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes but Wang has had shoulder troubles in the past so he could lose velocity if that comes up again. Its not out of the question.

 

nothing is out of the question. But a guy with a large frame who throws gas has a better propensity to keep that speed up than a smaller guy. He has that one his side. Either way, I think anyone on here can agree that he will have the same stuff barring injury this yr, so the point is moot for now.

[Gom]

sorry' date=' I can go with 2 but there is no way Wang is a bonafide ace[/quote']

 

Sure...not an ace. Yup...only second in the Cy Young voting this past year, behind the best starting pitcher on the planet. I'm sure you still consider Schilling an ace, though...oh and Beckett too, he's more of an ace than Wang.

 

You'd probably rather have Matsuzaka than Wang right now, wouldn't you? LOL!

 

Go back to sleep, kid. This board is for people who understand baseball. Come back in a few years when you get it.

[jsinger121]

Sure...not an ace. Yup...only second in the Cy Young voting this past year, behind the best starting pitcher on the planet. I'm sure you still consider Schilling an ace, though...oh and Beckett too, he's more of an ace than Wang.

 

You'd probably rather have Matsuzaka than Wang right now, wouldn't you? LOL!

 

Go back to sleep, kid. This board is for people who understand baseball. Come back in a few years when you get it.

 

Finishing 2nd in a CY Young race doesn't mean a guy is an Ace though.

[Matt]

Chien-Ming Wang of 2006 reminds me a lot of Jon Garland of 2005.

[riverside sluggers]

Sure...not an ace. Yup...only second in the Cy Young voting this past year, behind the best starting pitcher on the planet. I'm sure you still consider Schilling an ace, though...oh and Beckett too, he's more of an ace than Wang.

 

You'd probably rather have Matsuzaka than Wang right now, wouldn't you? LOL!

 

Go back to sleep, kid. This board is for people who understand baseball. Come back in a few years when you get it.

 

Daisuke Matsuzka does have the potential to be better than Wang. Writing him off so quickly I see

[BSN07]

Ok, no NYY fan will ever beable to complain what money we put up for Matsuzaka. You guys gave 25 million for a weak throwing back end of the rotation/bullpen guy. And after he pitched against the MLB all stars in Japan, they said his stuff wasn't even MLB quality!

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I like how all of a sudden Wang sucks. BTW With all do respect to guys like Wang and Schilling and Mike Mussina ETC, there are only maybe 2 aces in the AL and thats Santana and Halladay. If you really want to get technical, Santana is God, Halladay is an ace and then there is everyone else.

[BSN07]

I love the fact that some NYY fans are trying there hardest to justify this bid. Some are like Jose Reyes said he was good:lol:. David Wright said he wasn't close to ML quality tho, basically saying theres no way anyone should bid on this guy:lol: In all fairness tho, some NYY fans have agreed in saying this is the just a horrific bid. I just like the fact that there will be no more discusion's saying we overpayed for Matsuzaka, all we have to do now is point at Igawa's bid:harhar: and it's then end of the argument.

 

 

Listen I know both where a bit outrageous( well Matsuzaka's was, they haven't invented a word yet to describe what the NYY just did:thumbsup: .) But this just shows how crazy the market has gone. Anyone have Boras's number? I'm gonna start pitching in my back yard and hope someone will bid on me:thumbsup:

[riverside sluggers]

Bobby Valentine said in an interview. "While Igawa no doubt is a good pitcher, he is not in the same class as Matsuzaka." He also went on to say how Igawa has dregressed over the last 4 years but is still a solid pitcher. Personally I scratch my head on how the Yankees put out near duplicate bid for both pitchers... when 1 is poised to be an ace while the other can only hope to be a MLB #3 starter

[SuperManny]

Wang had a high WHIP this year for someone who is supposedly an ace. His WHIP this year was higher than Becketts. He's good because hes a groundball pitcher but the lack of K's and higher WHIP will catch up with him.

[Ray10]

Sure...not an ace. Yup...only second in the Cy Young voting this past year, behind the best starting pitcher on the planet. I'm sure you still consider Schilling an ace, though...oh and Beckett too, he's more of an ace than Wang.

 

You'd probably rather have Matsuzaka than Wang right now, wouldn't you? LOL!

 

Go back to sleep, kid. This board is for people who understand baseball. Come back in a few years when you get it.

 

If what he has done in Japan and the World Baseball Classic is any indication than yeah I would rather have Matsukaza than Wang anyday.

[Gom]

Wow..you guys love press clippings...you would take a wild card in Matsuzaka over one of the top 3 pitchers in the AL over Wang [outside of Santana and Halliday, he's probably the best pitcher in the AL]. I should bookmark all of these posts and show them to you at the end of next season. I'm gonna love it.

 

Wang's dominance is not about striking out people. It's the fact that he throws a pitch no other pitcher throws. He throws a 95 MPH sinker. He keeps the ball in the park, as evidenced by his 12 homeruns in 218 IP. Beckett game up THREE TIMES AS MANY HOMERUNS in almost 14 LESS INNINGS is a point you fail to realize. What a huge difference in WHIP too. 0.02. Significant. Really. Big time.

 

Let me tell you what is significant. Wang had a groundball to flyball ratio of 3.06. Conversely, Beckett had a ratio of 1.20. the next best thing to a strikeout is a groundball. It's the most likely scenario to turn two outs at once.

 

Try this...take a deep breath...THINK...and then post. Try it some time.

[Gom]

If what he has done in Japan and the World Baseball Classic is any indication than yeah I would rather have Matsukaza than Wang anyday.

 

Yes...the esteemed Japanese league...where the immortal Tuffy Rhodes, he of the lifetime .224 career average in MLB, with 13 homeruns in 225 games, who tied the immortal Sadahuro Oh's homerun record of 55, and only didn't break it because they wouldn't pitch to him in the last five games to preserve the record for a Japanese player. Let us not forget Alex Cabrera, the nine-year minor leaguerer who tied the same record the next year.

 

If they hadn't graced the Japanese league, they would have been in the Hall Of Fame here. As ushers.

 

Or the WBC, that esteemed format of stellar international play...where the American team had to show up for an early spring training, most haven't having seen a real pitch in 5 months. and the Japanese won behind the stellar pitching of Daisuke Matsuzaka, who stifled the Cubans in the final, they of...um...can anyone actually name ANYONE from the Cuban team off the top of their head or without googling it?

 

Did you ever wonder why Boras didn't allow Matsuzaka to pitch against MLB All-Stars in Japan?

 

I'm not saying he isn't a decent pitcher, but if he got bombed, it would have cost Boras millions. An image of Matsuzaka has been created. Whether it is real or a mirage is yet to be seen. Boras deemed the risk too great. Imagine how much more money Boras could have extracted if Matsuzaka did pitch, gave up two hits in six innings. Boras thought there was a much higher chance of him getting bombed...that should make you think for a second.

 

The Yankees bidding for Igawa is a waste. At least I admit that. The only thing that I see that makes any sense is that the Yankees are prepared to offer 16-17 million total over 4 years, with no negotiating. That outlay of 42 million over four years is what they would have to spend to get a Ted Lilly, but with less of a salary cap hit. In that case, it makes sense, this guy looks to be a Sushi-clone of Ted Lilly.

 

The fact that some of you guys have fallen in love with a player who hasn't even performed against major league caliber players, and would prefer him over a pitcher like Wang shows that you will believe ANYTHING anyone tells you to believe. They say there's one born every minute. Unreal.

[TheKilo]

Yes...the esteemed Japanese league...where the immortal Tuffy Rhodes, he of the lifetime .224 career average in MLB, with 13 homeruns in 225 games, who tied the immortal Sadahuro Oh's homerun record of 55, and only didn't break it because they wouldn't pitch to him in the last five games to preserve the record for a Japanese player. Let us not forget Alex Cabrera, the nine-year minor leaguerer who tied the same record the next year.

 

If they hadn't graced the Japanese league, they would have been in the Hall Of Fame here. As ushers.

 

Or the WBC, that esteemed format of stellar international play...where the American team had to show up for an early spring training, most haven't having seen a real pitch in 5 months. and the Japanese won behind the stellar pitching of Daisuke Matsuzaka, who stifled the Cubans in the final, they of...um...can anyone actually name ANYONE from the Cuban team off the top of their head or without googling it?

 

Did you ever wonder why Boras didn't allow Matsuzaka to pitch against MLB All-Stars in Japan?

 

I'm not saying he isn't a decent pitcher, but if he got bombed, it would have cost Boras millions. An image of Matsuzaka has been created. Whether it is real or a mirage is yet to be seen. Boras deemed the risk too great. Imagine how much more money Boras could have extracted if Matsuzaka did pitch, gave up two hits in six innings. Boras thought there was a much higher chance of him getting bombed...that should make you think for a second.

 

The Yankees bidding for Igawa is a waste. At least I admit that. The only thing that I see that makes any sense is that the Yankees are prepared to offer 16-17 million total over 4 years, with no negotiating. That outlay of 42 million over four years is what they would have to spend to get a Ted Lilly, but with less of a salary cap hit. In that case, it makes sense, this guy looks to be a Sushi-clone of Ted Lilly.

 

The fact that some of you guys have fallen in love with a player who hasn't even performed against major league caliber players, and would prefer him over a pitcher like Wang shows that you will believe ANYTHING anyone tells you to believe. They say there's one born every minute. Unreal.

 

 

Wang is a very solid pitcher and would love to have him on the Red Sox.

 

THAT BEING SAID, his peripherals show that he shouldn't have as lofty stats as he does, and that it's possible he could revert back to the mean. A guy with that few strikeouts could possibly give up a lot of runs. I'm not saying he will, but for me anyway, I get the impression he walked a bit of a tightrope last year. If some of those grounders find holes he could revert.

 

I think the enthusiasm for Matsuzaka is expected because of his potential, but I also think that we should see what he's got before declaring him an ace. Myself, I'm very excited to think what he can do, and I hope he becomes a better pitcher than Wang.

 

I also think the enthusiasm is centered around the Sox grabbing the rights to negotiate with the best pitcher on the FA market this year.

[riverside sluggers]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6225444

 

*sigh*

 

Can you say $25 million just to talk to a reliever?

 

With Igawa lacking much of a 3rd pitch, he could end up as a reliever (or at best a 5th starter). Id like to hear some Yankee fan kool-aid on how this is still a good deal by Cashman

[Gom]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6225444

 

*sigh*

 

Can you say $25 million just to talk to a reliever?

 

With Igawa lacking much of a 3rd pitch, he could end up as a reliever (or at best a 5th starter). Id like to hear some Yankee fan kool-aid on how this is still a good deal by Cashman

 

Relatively speaking...it may be decent considering what Lilly and Meche are asking for. Do I like it? No. It could turn out ok, though. I still think it is a bad move, though.