Igawa bid worth 25 million

[Beckett95]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/28/igawa.bid/index.html

 

and some people thought the Matsuzaka bid was the worst deal of the offseason

 

25 million just to talk to a guy who might be good enough to be a 4th starter

 

atleast Matsuzaka has #1 potential

[Papelbon58]

the Yankees and Mets are the top players there, correct?

[Ray10]

Wow that's alot of money for this guy. He's a number 5 guy at best. This make the Matsukaza thing look like a steal for the Sox.

[Cocos Disciples]

He'll suck.

[jsinger121]

I'm hearing the Yanks won the bidding

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I heard the Yankees won on YES also.

[jacksonianmarch]

he is not a number 5 guy at best. He projects as a middle to back of the rotation guy. That is why I thought bidding so high on him is a poor investment. I have seen anything from a 84-92mph fastball and a plus plus curve with average to plus control. That sounds well and good as a potential #3 unless he works on his control, but if his velocity is on the low end, then 84mph and a loopy curve has him pegged for relief duty. If the yankees needed a #4/5 starter, then this would be an expensive, but worthwhile venture. But since they need a 2 and this guy does not project as one, then this is to be considered a poor signing at best (unless they concurrently land a top flight starter as well which seems unlikely).

[MANNYHOF24]

he is not a number 5 guy at best. He projects as a middle to back of the rotation guy. That is why I thought bidding so high on him is a poor investment. I have seen anything from a 84-92mph fastball and a plus plus curve with average to plus control. That sounds well and good as a potential #3 unless he works on his control' date=' but if his velocity is on the low end, then 84mph and a loopy curve has him pegged for relief duty. If the yankees needed a #4/5 starter, then this would be an expensive, but worthwhile venture. But since they need a 2 and this guy does not project as one, then this is to be considered a poor signing at best (unless they concurrently land a top flight starter as well which seems unlikely).[/quote']

 

 

so this guy is as good as Papelbon then?

[jacksonianmarch]

so this guy is as good as Papelbon then?

 

who knows. He doesnt have the pure stuff of Papelbon but neither have pitched at length in the rotation in the MLB.

[ksushi]

mmm... no. I think Papelbon projects to be a litttle bit better than that.

[jsinger121]

His stuff is nowhere near that good as Papelbon. I look at him as a #4 at best. Complete and uneccessary overpay for the MFY.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

But wait who cares? The 25 mill doesnt count towards payroll right?

[jsinger121]

But wait who cares? The 25 mill doesnt count towards payroll right?

 

No it does not but if you throw that money around it better be for player better than what scouts tag a 4/5 starter at best.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

No it does not but if you throw that money around it better be for player better than what scouts tag a 4/5 starter at best.

Its a joke.

[Cityofchampions33]

they probably overbid to mae sure no one would steal him like the Sox with Dice-K

[Rdsxmbnt]

But wait who cares? The 25 mill doesnt count towards payroll right?

 

:thumbsup:

[jacksonianmarch]

maybe they will try the stupid idea of asking Hanshin to kick some of it back to fund the player's salary. Man I hate that. Overall, the guy has a lot of good things if you look at his stats, but stuff is important and having one plus pitch makes me wary of his ability to be a major leaguer.

 

From his scouting report, he sounds a lot like Barry Zito. Slow fastball, loopy curve that is an out pitch and durability. He threw 200+IP 4 of the last 5 yrs and every yr for the past 7 yrs he surpassed 170 innings. The one promising thing that makes me believe he is a little better than a loogy reliever is that his K rate is so high. For his career, he has K'd 8.5 batters per 9 innings, which makes me think that either his fastball or his location have been mildly underrated. His walk totals a impressive for a guy who seems like more of a feel pitcher rather than a power guy, but that can also be a disadvantage. One thing I like about Zito over anybody is that he is not afraid to walk you because his stuff is not good enough to just throw it over and say hit it. If this guy continues his low walk rate, he either have excellent control or he will be getting shelled.

 

His performance against the MLB all-stars had bright sides (2ER in 6IP) and low sides (6BB ). That makes me think that this kid can be unnerved, which is a horrible quality to have in NY, or he was avoiding the fat parts of the bat and the 2er in 6ip shows that he is smarter than given credit for. Either way, I think this is a well over market deal and is a poor signing right now. We'll see ow it turns out. This is obviously Cashman's low cost (believe it or not) replacement for Zito on the market, we'll see if he works out.

[Optimist]

Big mistake by the Yankees if it's true.

[jacksonianmarch]

Big mistake by the Yankees if it's true.

 

At this juncture, I agree.

[jacksonianmarch]

WFAN is reporting it. Yankees win bid at 25 mil. Poor investment.

 

http://www.lohud.com/blogs/2006/11/yankees-get-rights-to-igawa.html

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I'm also not a fan of this move however the pitchers that are currently out there dont exactly make me excited. At this point I actually think the Yanks are better off giving the final 2 roation spots to guys like Humberto Sanchez rather then sign a Lilly or Meche to a Pavano like contract.

[Gom]

Bad signing. He is now our number four after Wang, Moose, and Johnson. He moves to five if Pavano [LOL!!!!] ever comes back. He fills a spot in the rotation, but all this money is thrown around these Japanese pitchers, with guys like Zito and Schmidt just sitting there. This is nuts.

 

Oh well...I hope both him and Matsuzaka suck. Maybe then we will pay attention to what goes on here than over there.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think this move is a harbinger of something big to come. Hear me out.

 

The rotation now looks like

 

Wang

Mussina

Johnson

Igawa

Pavano/Karstens/Rasner

 

Assuming that Johnson's spot next yr will be filled by Hughes in 2008 and the 5 hole is filled by a guy like Zambrano or Carpenter in 2008 as well, that really leaves no room for Sanchez. So, I think the yankees are brewing something. They will not move Hughes, period. But I think Sanchez is certainly on the block as is JB Cox or any other solid yankee prospect. The one thing the yankees will have that will be very marketable is a young stable of pitchers. A top flight pitching prospect like Sanchez mixed with a medium tier pitching prospect like Whelan or Cox etc could be bait to get a close to arb eligible pitcher or a close to end of contract pitcher. Everyone knows that Cashman has his feelers out and I think he would be content with chasing the biggest FA pitcher next season, but he is certainly trying. We'll see. This move alone leaves the yankees with the third best rotation, maybe fourth in the ALE. But if they add a #2, then they jump to 1. We'll see how it works.

[Gom]

There is almost no way the Yankees get Carpenter or Zambrano at this point. I still think we should have got Zito instead of this Sushi.

 

Do the Japanese employ geisha's as interpreters? I don't get this Japanese craze right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont see the yankees landing Carpenter or Zambrano this season, but I also do not see Zambrano signing on for long term in CHC when he is so close to FA. Especially when he knows he could get a 20mil a yr prize if he holds out.

[ORS]

Thinking that Carpenter or Zambrano don't get extended by their current clubs is a collosal assumption. They are the cornerstones of the rotation for those clubs, who both have money, and who both are willing to spend it for key players. I would love the Sox to get a run at one of these guys with Schilling and Clement coming off the books, but I don't even have the slightest hope either of them will hit the market.

[edge4414]

I think this move is a harbinger of something big to come. Hear me out.

 

The rotation now looks like

 

Wang

Mussina

Johnson

Igawa

Pavano/Karstens/Rasner

 

Assuming that Johnson's spot next yr will be filled by Hughes in 2008 and the 5 hole is filled by a guy like Zambrano or Carpenter in 2008 as well, that really leaves no room for Sanchez. So, I think the yankees are brewing something. They will not move Hughes, period. But I think Sanchez is certainly on the block as is JB Cox or any other solid yankee prospect. The one thing the yankees will have that will be very marketable is a young stable of pitchers. A top flight pitching prospect like Sanchez mixed with a medium tier pitching prospect like Whelan or Cox etc could be bait to get a close to arb eligible pitcher or a close to end of contract pitcher. Everyone knows that Cashman has his feelers out and I think he would be content with chasing the biggest FA pitcher next season, but he is certainly trying. We'll see. This move alone leaves the yankees with the third best rotation, maybe fourth in the ALE. But if they add a #2, then they jump to 1. We'll see how it works.

 

First of all congratulations on being honest about the Igawa signing.

How does getting a #2 make the NYY rotation the best?

please consider the following in your answer. I'm sure you have heard of the progression in innings young pitchers are limited to by most teams approx. +30 innings and if this is abused the pitcher generally suffers an injury or down season. I believe there are stats about this and just saw another article about. My point is Wang had a +80 inning jump. Doesn't this worry you?

[jacksonianmarch]

First of all congratulations on being honest about the Igawa signing.

How does getting a #2 make the NYY rotation the best?

please consider the following in your answer. I'm sure you have heard of the progression in innings young pitchers are limited to by most teams approx. +30 innings and if this is abused the pitcher generally suffers an injury or down season. I believe there are stats about this and just saw another article about. My point is Wang had a +80 inning jump. Doesn't this worry you?

 

Wang's plus 80 was because he had an injury that claimed 2 months in his rookie season. He also had an extensive injury history in the minors, which essentially necessitated his changing from a heater/slider guy to a sinkerballer. This likely saved his career and made him the premier AL sinkerballer. He will remain durable so long as he does not fall in love with the slider again.

 

As for a #2 making the yankees rotation the best, here is my logic. Wang is the second best pitcher in the ALE behind Halladay. Mussina was likely the third best pitcher in the ALE last season and Schilling was 4. With the struggling Becket and the uncertainties in Papelbon, Igawa and Matsuzaka, it would be very hard for me to place the red sox rotation or the back half of the yankee rotation over anyone right now. But if you put a guy in there who is better than Mussina, then you essentially give the yankees the 2,3,4 best pitcher in the ALE and so long as the 4 and 5 can eat innings (and both were over 200 innings last yr) then the rotation will be solid. If they do not get that 2, then Johnson or Igawa will be counted on to be the 3 and will essentially need to provide innings and be effective. I dont think at this stage that either can be pencilled in for #3 work this season. That makes their top 2 rather strong but the 3-5 the weakest in the division and drop them to #4 behind Baltimore as well. Of all of the rotations, Baltimore and Boston have the most potential as they will be loaded with young fireballers, but neither have proven enough to be given the crown of best rotation in the ALE. Toronto has a very solid top 2 and a good 3 guy in Chacin. Right now, they are one pitcher away from being the best rotation in the ALE in my opinion, simply because of how dominant their ace is.

 

Everything is in a state of flux and 3 months into the season I would not be surprised if the sox have the best rotation in the ALE. But right now there are too many ??? and too many unprovens to hand them that title when the yankees have two of the top 3 pitchers in the ALE based on last yrs performance.

[example1]

Wang's plus 80 was because he had an injury that claimed 2 months in his rookie season. He also had an extensive injury history in the minors, which essentially necessitated his changing from a heater/slider guy to a sinkerballer. This likely saved his career and made him the premier AL sinkerballer. He will remain durable so long as he does not fall in love with the slider again.

 

As for a #2 making the yankees rotation the best, here is my logic. Wang is the second best pitcher in the ALE behind Halladay. Mussina was likely the third best pitcher in the ALE last season and Schilling was 4. With the struggling Becket and the uncertainties in Papelbon, Igawa and Matsuzaka, it would be very hard for me to place the red sox rotation or the back half of the yankee rotation over anyone right now. But if you put a guy in there who is better than Mussina, then you essentially give the yankees the 2,3,4 best pitcher in the ALE and so long as the 4 and 5 can eat innings (and both were over 200 innings last yr) then the rotation will be solid. If they do not get that 2, then Johnson or Igawa will be counted on to be the 3 and will essentially need to provide innings and be effective. I dont think at this stage that either can be pencilled in for #3 work this season. That makes their top 2 rather strong but the 3-5 the weakest in the division and drop them to #4 behind Baltimore as well. Of all of the rotations, Baltimore and Boston have the most potential as they will be loaded with young fireballers, but neither have proven enough to be given the crown of best rotation in the ALE. Toronto has a very solid top 2 and a good 3 guy in Chacin. Right now, they are one pitcher away from being the best rotation in the ALE in my opinion, simply because of how dominant their ace is.

 

Everything is in a state of flux and 3 months into the season I would not be surprised if the sox have the best rotation in the ALE. But right now there are too many ??? and too many unprovens to hand them that title when the yankees have two of the top 3 pitchers in the ALE based on last yrs performance.

 

Good post. I don't think you'll find a pitcher who is "better than Mussina" no matter who you sign, given that Mussina was better than Zito last year and schmidt is getting old. Don't diss the Moose anyway. He's old and less effective but he's still a very solid pitcher and more consistent than ZitoBB.

 

I'm not at all sold on Wang. His stuff is not overpowering at all, and guys who don't get those strikeouts are much more dependant on defense and luck. I think he's good, but I'd still rather have Beckett and I bet most people here would. (of course, we watched him absolutely dominate the Yankees after they beat us in 7 games, we we're all emotionally attached to him, especially now that he's on the sox). I just like Beckett's arsenal better even if it didn't show last year regularly enough.

 

I think you'll know by his second start whether Matsuzaka is an average pitcher or an ace and I don't think you'll like the result.

[ARod2212]

Not the lefty I want to see the Yankees giving $25 million to. Where are you Andrew Eugene?