Sox's 2007 first baseman.

[jacksonianmarch]

1b

Nomar .872

Huff .813

Aurilia .867

2b

DeRosa .813

Soriano .911

Aurilia .867

3b

Huff .813

DeRosa .813

Aurilia .867

A. Ramirez (if option declined) .912

SS

Aurilia .867

Lugo .871 (in tampa as full time player)

CF

Cameron .837

Edmonds .821

Matthews Jr. .866

RF

Alou .923

Bonds .999

Lee

Shannon Stewart

 

or if you trust him, just keep WMP.

 

Not many guys there to fill the holes. 2b, ss, cf needs fixing. Vtek is gonna get worse most likely, but he has the huge contract and he is the capt, so he isnt going anywhere. If you have faith that Crisp will bounce back and WMP can carry the load, then so be it. But you cannot take that chance as well as break in a rookie 2b and not get Lugo for SS.

[ORS]

Sorry, I don't see Tek getting worse. He'll be below his '03-'05 levels without a doubt, but he was horrid last year. Even in decline I don't question his ability to beat a .725 OPS.

[jacksonianmarch]

His bat just looked real slow last yr. He couldnt hit anything square either. He looked like he aged very quickly, which is something that you dont recover from very easily. And fatigue should not be an issue, when he gets every 5th day off.

[example1]

Yeah but he's catching, and doing a damn nice job behind the plate overall. Every 5th day off only goes so far if you beat yourself to a pulp the other 4 days.

[ORS]

His bat just looked real slow last yr. He couldnt hit anything square either. He looked like he aged very quickly' date=' which is something that you dont recover from very easily. And fatigue should not be an issue, when he gets every 5th day off.[/quote']

He just started the year horrendously. In August, it looked like the bat was coming around. He was squaring the ball up more and driving it into the gaps. Then he got hurt. The age factor for catchers generally has them losing their ability behind the plate. The bat is usually the last thing to go.

[scaffolds]

Well, if Youkilis would had been a second baseman like i believe 700 posted earlier it wouldn't had been his fault, but since he doesn't have the quickness or range for second base and only can play a corner position with his kind of production its a problem.

 

Example; Some Sox fans and not baseball evaluators taught that Youkilis was going to be third baseman of the future, baseball people new well about Youkilis lack of bat speed (the main reason for lack pf power) and his short commings. Spann on the other hand is a lot more athletic than Youkilis with the potential one day of been a plus defender at the hot corner, in addition its the type of hitter that while he may never have Youkilis OBP he may be a better in the ML than in the lower minors, specially in the production department another words a better hitter than Youkilis.

 

Guys I am not saying that there isn't a future for Youkilis in the ML, just that not as a starting corner player and ideally if not traded this Winter he could spell Lowell, Manny and the new first baseman and play about 70-80 games, maybe more as a defensive replacemet for the first baseman.

[jacksonianmarch]

the guy will have a good role on this team so long as the other spots are filled. You dont need a superstar at every position. Thing is, if you had a Youk at every position, but had Manny and Papi on the team as well, the team would be damn good.

[ORS]

Not defensively.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am speaking theoretically here.

[scaffolds]

The point is that Manny and Ortiz needs help, the last couple of years if Manny or Ortiz don't produce in a game, the Sox have a problem scoring runs in those games.

[jacksonianmarch]

the biggest problem is not that Manny and Ortiz lack another big bat. Their biggest problem is that they lack the continuity in the lineup that they had 2 yrs ago.

[scaffolds]

I disagree, the problem its lack of players that can hit to support Manny and Ortiz.

[jacksonianmarch]

if you look at the championship yr, they didnt have another middle of the order bat with a .900+OPS. They had a continuous flow of players 1-9 with an OPS over .800. That made the entire lineup dangerous from 1-9. THAT makes a lineup. Not having 3 guys in the middle who can mash and a scrub crew surrounding them.

[BSN07]

I say keep Youk, he looks to be a young trot nixon type and he be a good steady pressence on the team, trade Lowell, his trade value isnt great but its not going to get much better, if st. louis would take coco puff and a young arm for duncan then yes that would be a option that is worth checking out, if he works out he could be the rf for many years to come, package lowell up to San dieago who needs a solid third baseman and if theo is as good as he thinks and is as close to the s.d. gm they say he is possibly find a trade for Jake peavy! If lester can't go then we also need a LHP... pass on Zito too much money for a curve ball relying( it is good) pitcher, I think he's not a big city pitcher, if he goes to the yanks I see red sox fans saying I'm glad we didn't get him! Ted Lilly might be a better way solid 4 maybe a 3 but alot cheaper. Don't try to find an ace to replace schilling this year theres not a good enough one out there, if I remeber correctly johan santana will be one the following season, not to say they have a chance but there isnt a number 1 on the market to build around after schilling, unless beckett learns to change speeds and realize he doesnt pitch in the sorry ass n.l.( and I know they just won the world series). As for manny I'm really on the fence I see both sides of the argument, so unless it's a no brainer trade, which I dont see happening, ervin santanna? Dontt get me wrong the potential is there but trading a sure fire 1st ballot h.o.f. for potential makes me cringe!lol so the only thing left is 2b and rp. well we could go young with pedroia at second, or go for the big splash for soriano, and theres middle ground with options like loretta, belliard ect. Personally I wouldnt mind seeing soriano at second, yes where giving up a little leather , but with the offense it's tempting, it would offset low off. with gonzalez, gonzo offsets sorianos lack of defense, I be good with that but I'm just a fan, but no more the a 4 year deal maybe with an option year at the end, he is 30, I know its not old but 35 at then end of contract is in baseball years. Relief pitching... well theyll be the usual suspects junkyard scraps some injury prone guys not alot of quality but we can make do. Eric gagne at closer? Sounds fun but injuries, Brad lidge? He had trouble in the nl central doesn't look well projected to a.l. east, but a change of sceneory may be just what he needs, so if there not grabbin you by the short and harry's( houston has always stuck the sox...bagwell...carl everret for adam everett) maybe go this route if the price isnt hi, besides that not to sure, won't be foulke, not sure hear but as for the rest I think it wouldnt be to bad and maybe not alot of money besides soriano, O and I almost forgot cf, with established vets on the team why not give a rookie a shot, the ellesbury( sorry the hole name evades my brain at this point) he's looked great and makes us a little younger, with all that said here's a projected line up maybe if some of this happens,

 

1b youk/duncan/varitek?( he is getting up there and his knees won't hold out forever)

2b soriano

dh papi

lf manny

rf duncan/ wily mo( unless hes dealt for bullpen help)/ dave roberts

c varitek/ ( that one prospect we got in the wells deal)

3b not sure alot depends on this... pedroia, some low priced FA

cf ellesbury/ dave roberts?( could be a nice bench guy)

ss gonzalez

1.schilling

2.beckett

3.peavy/papelbon

4.lilly

5.lester if healthy/gil meche/adam eaton/mark mulder someone of that genre

 

relief you got timlin, taveraz, hansen/mdc( if not traded) need a lefty, wakefield and lidge let me know your thoughts...

Well this is my first pot ever anywhere so don't bash me too bad and let me know what you think.

[scaffolds]

In 2004 Millar had 25 HR and Tek had 18 HR. If the Sox are going to compete in the AL in 2007 they need more production other than Ortiz and Manny and they aren't going to get it if its Youklis and Nixon in first base and right field.

[adam123]

thats bull guys ...youk was great suprise this year . he had great eye for the ball ya he does not have pop .. but he hits ..did u guys watch what he did this season . if you want him gone just call jt snow to steal money from us by sitting on the bench .. i want millar back than

[redsoxrules]

thats bull guys ...youk was great suprise this year . he had great eye for the ball ya he does not have pop .. but he hits ..did u guys watch what he did this season . if you want him gone just call jt snow to steal money from us by sitting on the bench .. i want millar back than

 

jt snow? where did that come from ? did we say we want him back ?

[scaffolds]

thats bull guys ...youk was great suprise this year . he had great eye for the ball ya he does not have pop .. but he hits ..did u guys watch what he did this season . if you want him gone just call jt snow to steal money from us by sitting on the bench .. i want millar back than

 

Yea we saw what Kevin Youkilis did 13 HR 70 RBI and 120 strike outs.

[example1]

Yea we saw what Kevin Youkilis did 13 HR 70 RBI and 120 strike outs.

 

Oh my god! What a horrible first full season! Egads, only 13 HR and 70 RBI, with a .380 OBP. How horrible. get that guy out of town at all costs!

 

 

I buy it when you say "trade him while his value is high", I don't buy it when you imply that this guy isn't a MLB caliber 1B or 3B, or that the sox would somehow be a worse team if he played and they signed a .900+ OPS guy to bat 5th.

 

Perhaps WMP would be a better person to try to move. He's got bigger upside, he plays a position that is easier to get power in right now (OF) and he's just as cheap. Why not move him? Or Pedroia? Or Gonzo?

[Bosoxwest]

youk was great suprise this year

 

Youks was kind of surprise, actually. His 2006 ZiPS projections (projected out for his actual ABs) had him at 42 2Bs, 13 HRs and 70 RBIs, exactly as he produced. Pretty amazing accuracy, BTW. However, they also had him at 111 BBs and 98 Ks. His actual line of 91 BBs and 120Ks showed a surprising dropoff in his plate discipline, which was his expected bread and butter.

 

Youks is a good value proposition at his current cost for most teams in the league, but not really a high-rev team like the Sox: not as a starting corner IF. I think his IsoD will improve next year, but in terms of power he is as good as he'll get IMO. He doesn't kill this team by any means, but as we have a lot of big holes to fill, now is probably the time to get something back for him.

[scaffolds]

Oh my god! What a horrible first full season! Egads, only 13 HR and 70 RBI, with a .380 OBP. How horrible. get that guy out of town at all costs!

 

 

I buy it when you say "trade him while his value is high", I don't buy it when you imply that this guy isn't a MLB caliber 1B or 3B, or that the sox would somehow be a worse team if he played and they signed a .900+ OPS guy to bat 5th.

 

Perhaps WMP would be a better person to try to move. He's got bigger upside, he plays a position that is easier to get power in right now (OF) and he's just as cheap. Why not move him? Or Pedroia? Or Gonzo?

 

Example; you tried to be funny, but i didn't get the joke, but that is correct those are very average first year player numbers, specially for someone who play the whole year in the ML and again kevin Youkilis isn't a starting corner infielder material for a champions ship contender.

[a700hitter]

Example; you tried to be funny' date=' but i didn't get the joke, but that is correct those are very average first year player numbers, specially for someone who play the whole year in the ML and again kevin Youkilis isn't a starting corner infielder material for a champions ship contender.[/quote']Youklis has a lot of avid fans and they can't see his limited skills. He makes the most of what he has got, which is no speed, little power and an averag glove and arm. He's got utility written all over him. He is a less talented Scott Spezio.

[example1]

Example; you tried to be funny' date=' but i didn't get the joke, but that is correct those are very average first year player numbers, specially for someone who play the whole year in the ML and again kevin Youkilis isn't a starting corner infielder material for a champions ship contender.[/quote']

 

Scaff; sorry you didn't get the joke. It wasn't a joke per-se, actually it was sarcasm. I'm just sick of this discussion.

 

There are a lot of people here who like Youkilis. There are a lot of people here who lke him enough to know that he could have high trade value. What I'm feeling from you is that Youkilis actually doesn't have that value and we're stupid for thinking he is.

 

On July 3rd (about half-way through the season) Youkilis had a .907 OPS. That had come down from .950 about two months into the season. What makes you so confdent that you know what Youkilis' ceiling is going to be?

 

As a 3Bman, youks' .810 OPS last season would have put him 10th in all of baseball, between Aubrey Huff and Chad Tracy, ahead of Inge, Beltre and Chavez. Personally, I think this was a down year for Youkilis insofar as he really hit a bad slump right about when the rest of the team went down. Most years he should be more consistent, and I think he will strikeout less.

 

I'm sorry Scaff, I just haven't been convinced by anyone's arguments yet. If you want to trade him as part of a good deal then fine, use his value, but don't go about claiming that a + defender and + OBP guy (as well as a seemingly decent person and good team leader) isn't good enough to play on a WS team that may have Ortiz and Ramirez already in the lineup.

[example1]

Youklis has a lot of avid fans and they can't see his limited skills. He makes the most of what he has got' date=' which is no speed, little power and an averag glove and arm. He's got utility written all over him. He is a less talented Scott Spezio.[/quote']

 

I hope you're not referring to me here a700. EVERYONE can see Youk's limited skills. The guy is overweight. He's not fast. He can't play any OF or MIF positions. He doesn't have a ton of power. Anything I missed?

 

It's just as if you guys are all sitting here, writing about how OBVIOUS it is to you, the blessed, that Youkilis has to go. My point is that until you see a trade sitting in front of your face to evaluate, don't just pontficate about the fact that Youkilis needs to go. You guys seem to want this team to be like the Yankees: no chemistry, no role players, no guys who get on base and play good defense. The only guys I hear you wanting are power hitters who make the sox fit into the traditional defensive/offensive spectrum picture.

 

I say, if we get rid of Lowell and sign, say, Aramis Ramirez, while keeping Manny, Coco and WMP then our offense looks pretty good to me:

 

Crisp

Youkils

Ortiz

Manny

Aramis

WMP

Varitek

Pedroia

Gonzo/Lugo/Someone

 

That looks like a nice lineup to me.

[a700hitter]

My point is that until you see a trade sitting in front of your face to evaluate' date=' don't just pontficate about the fact that Youkilis needs to go.[/quote'] We are all pontificating here. I am saying that Youk has more trade value than Lowell, so there is a better chance of him being traded.

You guys seem to want this team to be like the Yankees: no chemistry' date=' no role players, no guys who get on base and play good defense.[/quote'] I am advocating that if he doesn't get traded that he be a role player. Role players don't get over 600 plate appearances. He shouldn't be an everyday player. I am advocating good defense by saying that they should keep Lowell.

The only guys I hear you wanting are power hitters who make the sox fit into the traditional defensive/offensive spectrum picture.

Who am I advocating that we get? I am not elevating the importance of power at the expense of defense. I am not thrilled with WMP because of his defensive limitations.

I say' date=' if we get rid of Lowell and sign, say, Aramis Ramirez, while keeping Manny, Coco and WMP then our offense looks pretty good to me:[/quote']That move would certainly make Lowell expendable

[scaffolds]

Example; Everyone has an opinion and if isn't a opinion that is offensive to the other posters i am willing to listen to. Red Sox fans love blue collar players and that is what Youkilis is and that is only reason for the love affair with him. You're correct i don't believe that trading Youkilis by himself would bring top value back, in a package deal it needs to be seen if it will.

[example1]

Example; Everyone has an opinion and if isn't a opinion that is offensive to the other posters i am willing to listen to. Red Sox fans love blue collar players and that is what Youkilis is and that is only reason for the love affair with him. You're correct i don't believe that trading Youkilis by himself would bring top value back' date=' in a package deal it needs to be seen if it will.[/quote']

 

But trading him in a package better bring back something nice. I guess OBP means nothing to you, since the only redeeming value you see in him is that he is a nice blue-collar player... kind of like Brian Dabauch. I disagree. I think his OBP would be coveted by teams that know what they're doing. I'm not going to discuss this much more, as its just a matter of opinion.

 

I think the guy who had the 2nd highest p/pa in the league and who saw the 3rd most pitches in all of baseball is valuable for more than being "blue collar". think sox fans are smarter than that, I think other teams are smarter than that, and I think the sox FO is much smarter than that.

 

But if you want to trade him wth Crisp and another player for Heathcliff Slocomb then go ahead.

[example1]

That move would certainly make Lowell expendable

 

But would it make you be willing to keep youk's near .400 OBP and VERY solid 1B defense at the 2 spot or 8 spot in the lineup?

[a700hitter]

But trading him in a package better bring back something nice. I guess OBP means nothing to you' date=' since the only redeeming value you see in him is that he is a nice blue-collar player... kind of like Brian Dabauch. I disagree. I think his OBP would be coveted by teams that know what they're doing. I'm not going to discuss this much more, as its just a matter of opinion.[/quote'] He's a RH Scott Hatteberg. His nice OBP will keep him in the majors, but he will not be a corner on a premier team. He's a role player like Hatteberg.

[a700hitter]

But would it make you be willing to keep youk's near .400 OBP and VERY solid 1B defense at the 2 spot or 8 spot in the lineup?

.381 is not really near .400. It's not even near .390.