Breaking News: Ortiz to return to Boston

[MC Hammer]

The stats really aren't that numerous, and this does a good job of proving my point. You don't get what the stats are about.

 

I know you like stats. You like the ones from Stats Inc. because they are the "official" scoring stats. Those are useful, but they are cluttered with noise. Park, league, oppenent, and era all contribute to the environment where the raw stats are compiled. All BP does is filter out the noise to try and get to the true value independent of all those variables. The stats are created by guys who use statistical analysis in their professional lives -- most of the BP writers have day jobs, but they are nuts for baseball.

The people that run BP are so smart that they know what's better for baseball than baseball itself does.

 

I'm really not in the mood to argue this again.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

There's some validity to that. Papelbon's rate stats are freakish, so a "wait and see" mentality is justified. I'm not arguing that I think he'll keep it up at this rate. However, based on what's happened so far, it's hard to argue against him.

True, the only beef I have with Neyer is having Jenks in the same breath as Paplebon, Rivera and Nathan. A 3.43 ERA and a 1.26 WHIP aint gonna cut it against guys that have ERA's below 2 and WHIP's below 1.

[ORS]

The people that run BP are so smart that they know what's better for baseball than baseball itself does.

This is a throw-away comment with no evidenciary support. If that's all you've got against BP, then I'll have to assumed that you are just jaded for some reason.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Come on Jeter deserves it more for hitting .337. I mean isn't it amazing that he's hitting .337? I mean .337!!! MVP MVP MVP!!!! How can you compare Papi to Jeter ... I mean Jeter is putting up ... Freddy Sanchez like numbers.

 

Seriously if one more person on ESPN suggests Jeter should win the MVP I'm going to fly to the ESPN HQ and burn it down.

He's also on the team that is 7 games up despite all the injuries. If they shut down ortiz and the red sox miss the playoffs, jeter is the frontrunner.

[ORS]

Don't overlook Dye. He's having a monster year.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Don't overlook Dye. He's having a monster year.

White sox have to make the playoffs but yeah he is having a great year. I think a lot of sports writers feel like they almost owe Jeter an MVP though since he's been a big part of so many winning teams and has no MVP trophies to show for it.

[See Red]

He's also on the team that is 7 games up despite all the injuries. If they shut down ortiz and the red sox miss the playoffs, jeter is the frontrunner.

 

Over a team that's been equally as dismantled by injuries -- if not more-so.

[He Hate Me]

Over a team that's been equally as dismantled by injuries -- if not more-so.

 

yeah but look at how the team did when the Red Sox were at relatively full strength.

[MANNYHOF24]

yeah but look at how the team did when the Red Sox were at relatively full strength.

 

Oh, come on you still had Jeter Arod, Posada, Damon, Cano(for a while). Right now our best hitter is Youk. We have our SS, LF, both RF's, C and captian, plus Lorreta should be on the DL. Plus your injuries hit towards the begining of the season when your FO and team had plenty of time to adjust to the circumstances. Its hard when they all happen in august when the race is really tight.

[MANNYHOF24]

He's also on the team that is 7 games up despite all the injuries. If they shut down ortiz and the red sox miss the playoffs, jeter is the frontrunner.

 

If Jeter wins the MVP im going to vomit. It should be Ortiz because he carried the sox for 4 months on his back, and has huge numbers. If Papi doesnt win its going to be Dye, no question about it.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

If Jeter wins the MVP im going to vomit. It should be Ortiz because he carried the sox for 4 months on his back, and has huge numbers. If Papi doesnt win its going to be Dye, no question about it.

Thats true, so Papi was so valuable that instead of missing the playoffs by 20 games you guys are going to miss the playoffs by 10? With that logic Travis Hafner should win the award. Without Hafner the Guardians would have lost around 110 games instead of the 90 they are likely to lose.

[He Hate Me]

Oh, come on you still had Jeter Arod, Posada, Damon, Cano(for a while). Right now our best hitter is Youk. We have our SS, LF, both RF's, C and captian, plus Lorreta should be on the DL. Plus your injuries hit towards the begining of the season when your FO and team had plenty of time to adjust to the circumstances. Its hard when they all happen in august when the race is really tight.

 

Do you mean the same Damon whos had an assortment of injuries all year? I can't help it if he's tougher than other players who have to take a breather just because they're so tired from being pissed at the official scorer.

 

Look we had Aaron Guiel, Bubba Crosby and Melky Cabrera as our outfield at one point with Andy Philips and Miguel Cairo in the infield. I'm sure that would be a wash with the craptastic lineup you got right now because of your injuries.

 

The injury thing doesn't even matter anyway. The only main guy you were missing was Varitek during the sweep. Both teams were at relatively full strength and your team got shut down pure and simple.

[MANNYHOF24]

Do you mean the same Damon whos had an assortment of injuries all year? I can't help it if he's tougher than other players who have to take a breather just because they're so tired from being pissed at the official scorer.

 

Look we had Aaron Guiel, Bubba Crosby and Melky Cabrera as our outfield at one point with Andy Philips and Miguel Cairo in the infield. I'm sure that would be a wash with the craptastic lineup you got right now because of your injuries.

 

The injury thing doesn't even matter anyway. The only main guy you were missing was Varitek during the sweep. Both teams were at relatively full strength and your team got shut down pure and simple.

 

If Tek had not been injured, we would still be in this race, plain and simple.

[MANNYHOF24]

Thats true, so Papi was so valuable that instead of missing the playoffs by 20 games you guys are going to miss the playoffs by 10? With that logic Travis Hafner should win the award. Without Hafner the Guardians would have lost around 110 games instead of the 90 they are likely to lose.

 

If you remember didnt AROD win the MVP on a last place team in 03? Its all about the numbers and Jeter does not have MVP numbers and ORtiz and Dye do.

[He Hate Me]

If Tek had not been injured, we would still be in this race, plain and simple.

 

Then technically wouldn't Tek be more valuable than Ortiz?

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

If you remember didnt AROD win the MVP on a last place team in 03? Its all about the numbers and Jeter does not have MVP numbers and ORtiz and Dye do.

Check the first page where I posted a link to the league leaders in VORP which shows that Jeter is actually more worth then both Dye and Ortiz. BTW A-Rod won in a year he shouldnt have. Jorge Posada was putting up a similar offenvise year that Joe Mauer is this year and he should have won it.

[MANNYHOF24]

Check the first page where I posted a link to the league leaders in VORP which shows that Jeter is actually more worth then both Dye and Ortiz. BTW A-Rod won in a year he shouldnt have. Jorge Posada was putting up a similar offenvise year that Joe Mauer is this year and he should have won it.

 

You take Jeter off the Yankees, they still score a ton of runs, and when Ortiz is out of the lineup we score 1 run in 2 games, you cant sit here and tell me that Jeter is more important to the Yankees is than Papi is to the Red Sox.

[He Hate Me]

You take Jeter off the Yankees, they still score a ton of runs, and when Ortiz is out of the lineup we score 1 run in 2 games, you cant sit here and tell me that Jeter is more important to the Yankees is than Papi is to the Red Sox.

 

But you just said that Tek would have been the difference maker in that series :dunno:

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

You take Jeter off the Yankees, they still score a ton of runs, and when Ortiz is out of the lineup we score 1 run in 2 games, you cant sit here and tell me that Jeter is more important to the Yankees is than Papi is to the Red Sox.

Your missing the overall point...who cares the Red Sox arent making the playoffs. If your going to give it to a player that has been the best player in the AL its Hafner rather easily.

 

Best player in the AL this year: Travis Hafner

Best player on a playoff team: IMO based on the position they play and the offensive #'s they have put up its between Mauer and Jeter.

[mtbykr]

But you just said that Tek would have been the difference maker in that series :dunno:

 

 

I would guess that he means Tek is the difference maker,..ie working with the pitching staff and preparing for games (and leadership) while our offense is worthless without Tizzle in it

[He Hate Me]

I would guess that he means Tek is the difference maker,..ie working with the pitching staff and preparing for games (and leadership) while our offense is worthless without Tizzle in it

 

So who's more valuable to the team? Tek or Ortiz?

[riverside sluggers]

Your missing the overall point...who cares the Red Sox arent making the playoffs. If your going to give it to a player that has been the best player in the AL its Hafner rather easily.

 

Best player in the AL this year: Travis Hafner

Best player on a playoff team: IMO based on the position they play and the offensive #'s they have put up its between Mauer and Jeter.

 

even if the Sox made the playoffs and Ortiz was able to put up 58 HRs/145+ RBIs, it just wouldnt matter... majority of baseball writers look down at Ortiz as a utility guy who doesnt deserve to have an MVP award

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

even if the Sox made the playoffs and Ortiz was able to put up 58 HRs/145+ RBIs, it just wouldnt matter... majority of baseball writers look down at Ortiz as a utility guy who doesnt deserve to have an MVP award

Thats because sports writers tend to be morons. These are the same people who feel that wins is the best way to judge a starting pitcher. IMO a DH because he adds no defensive value has to be above and beyond hitter then any other player that hits and adds some sort of defensive value. THIS year there happens to be 2 DH's that are having amazing years. IMO if the Red Sox made the post season Ortiz should win it.

[He Hate Me]

even if the Sox made the playoffs and Ortiz was able to put up 58 HRs/145+ RBIs, it just wouldnt matter... majority of baseball writers look down at Ortiz as a utility guy who doesnt deserve to have an MVP award

 

If the Sox make the playoffs, Ortiz has to win the MVP. His numbers are that good. Jeter would be the #2 guy IMO.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I'm sorry but when the Red Sox season went down the drain so did Ortiz's chances of winning the MVP. Hes had a brillent season but there are too many people having great seasons on playoff clubs. If you were to give it to someone who didnt make the playoffs I think Hafner would win.

 

BTW All the best to Ortiz.

 

How could you possibly give it to Hafner over Ortiz?? Both are DH so you can't say his defense is better. David Ortiz has more HRs and more RBI. The Red Sox are a better team so you can't say the record plays a part.

 

Face it...you just don't want to see a Red Sox player win the MVP.....just come out and say it.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

How could you possibly give it to Hafner over Ortiz?? Both are DH so you can't say his defense is better. David Ortiz has more HRs and more RBI. The Red Sox are a better team so you can't say the record plays a part.

 

Face it...you just don't want to see a Red Sox player win the MVP.....just come out and say it.

He has a massive lead in VORP. Check it out on the second page.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

He has a massive lead in VORP. Check it out on the second page.

 

Who gives a s***. If you had to choose between David Ortiz or Travis Hafner to win the game for you...who do you take? If you say Travis Hafner you are simply saying it because you don't want a Red Sox player to win.

 

I want to make an argument about "team must make playoffs to be MVP". Last season Alex Rodriguez won the award. This year he has done nothing but SUCK and they will still win the division and make the playoffs.....how valuable is he?? If Derek Jeter sucked all season then the Yankees would still make the playoffs.

 

MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. If you take Jeter or A-Rod or Sheffield or Matsui off the Yankees...it makes no difference because there is 200 million dollars on the team. If you take David Ortiz off the team....just look what is happening. I will make the same case for Travis Hafner...if you took him off that team they have NO offense. Derek Jeter should not be mentioned in ANY MVP talk. Ichiro Suzuki has amassed enormous hit totals and insane BA numbers yet he has not won an MVP award. I guarantee if he was on the Yankees his name would be all over the place.

 

The players who should be involved in MVP talks:

 

1. David Ortiz

2. Jermaine Dye

3. Travis Hafner

 

....in that order

[He Hate Me]

Who gives a s***. If you had to choose between David Ortiz or Travis Hafner to win the game for you...who do you take? If you say Travis Hafner you are simply saying it because you don't want a Red Sox player to win.

 

I want to make an argument about "team must make playoffs to be MVP". Last season Alex Rodriguez won the award. This year he has done nothing but SUCK and they will still win the division and make the playoffs.....how valuable is he?? If Derek Jeter sucked all season then the Yankees would still make the playoffs.

 

MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. If you take Jeter or A-Rod or Sheffield or Matsui off the Yankees...it makes no difference because there is 200 million dollars on the team. If you take David Ortiz off the team....just look what is happening. I will make the same case for Travis Hafner...if you took him off that team they have NO offense. Derek Jeter should not be mentioned in ANY MVP talk. Ichiro Suzuki has amassed enormous hit totals and insane BA numbers yet he has not won an MVP award. I guarantee if he was on the Yankees his name would be all over the place.

 

The players who should be involved in MVP talks:

 

1. David Ortiz

2. Jermaine Dye

3. Travis Hafner

 

....in that order

 

The why add Jermaine Dye's name in there? Look at that White Sox lineup, you think they'd have any trouble scoring runs without Dye?

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

The why add Jermaine Dye's name in there? Look at that White Sox lineup, you think they'd have any trouble scoring runs without Dye?

 

Take him out of that lineup and you are looking at Konerko and Thome....thats a good 3-4 punch but Jermaine Dye is the reason the offense has taken another step this season. The pitching hasn't been there all year for that team and they had to rely on offense. He has been the leader of the offense and the difference maker. Without him I can't say they would be fighting for a wildcard spot. They would be the same team as last season without the same pitching.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Who gives a s***. If you had to choose between David Ortiz or Travis Hafner to win the game for you...who do you take? If you say Travis Hafner you are simply saying it because you don't want a Red Sox player to win.

 

I want to make an argument about "team must make playoffs to be MVP". Last season Alex Rodriguez won the award. This year he has done nothing but SUCK and they will still win the division and make the playoffs.....how valuable is he?? If Derek Jeter sucked all season then the Yankees would still make the playoffs.

 

MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. If you take Jeter or A-Rod or Sheffield or Matsui off the Yankees...it makes no difference because there is 200 million dollars on the team. If you take David Ortiz off the team....just look what is happening. I will make the same case for Travis Hafner...if you took him off that team they have NO offense. Derek Jeter should not be mentioned in ANY MVP talk. Ichiro Suzuki has amassed enormous hit totals and insane BA numbers yet he has not won an MVP award. I guarantee if he was on the Yankees his name would be all over the place.

 

The players who should be involved in MVP talks:

 

1. David Ortiz

2. Jermaine Dye

3. Travis Hafner

 

....in that order

 

 

First of all know what your talking about please....Ichiro won the MVP and ROY in 2001.

 

 

What do you mean who gives a s***? Just because you dont understand the stat it doesnt mean you disregard it. I dont care if the Red Sox are a better team then the Guardians. They both have 1 thing in common. They will home playing golf in October so I dont want to hear this BS about the Red Sox being a better team. Congrats to you guys, instead of missing the playoffs by 20 games Ortiz helped you guys miss it by 10.

 

BTW speaking on the Yankees, they were able to surive with A-Rod having his worst season ever because they have had players like Damon and Jeter have their best seasons and Giambi having one of his best seasons ever. They have picked up the slack for him. If you put a slumping A-Rod on LAST years team they dont sniff the playoffs.