During Era of Fair Competition, 1966-75 ,Sox Were Superior to Yankees

[bobby jr]

i don't think it is any type of sign that the Sox were better for those 10 years. We might have had a better front office and 2 good drafts or something, not that big of a deal.

 

To make a point I have made before: Even if it does favor the Yankees, baseball should not have a salary cap. It is the most pure American sport. Period. Remember, what hurts the Yankees the most hurts us the second most.

 

I beg to differ, the Sox would be greatly helped by a cap because it would create fair competition in the AL East, as it is the Sox generally have to hope for a wild card at best.

Before free agency started, the Sox were better than the Yankees for a 10 year period. This is impossible under the current system, even if the Sox did somehow beat the Yankees for 1 year the Yankees would win the AL East the next 9.

 

I don't see how the Yankees being guaranteed a playoff berth every year is All-American. If anything it seems to me like a monopoly like Standard Oil. Anyway it makes baseball into a joke when a team can buy their way into the playoffs for eternity.

[ORS]

My point about the subscriptions was that those who don't have a cable service with YES as part of the basic package would either get the upgrade package or switch services. Perhaps that number is smaller than I think, but they do exist.

 

Yeah, the TV network is where it's at. That's why several other big market clubs have their own cable channel. I always catch the Angels on FSN West when I watch on MLB.TV. That market is scary big if they launch their own network.

[He Hate Me]

Anyway it makes baseball into a joke when a team can buy their way into the playoffs for eternity.

 

How many homegrown Yankees are on the current roster and how many homegrown Red Sox are on the current roster?

 

In fact how many players on the White Sox last year were home grown?

 

Does the Yankees have more or less or around the same number?

[He Hate Me]

My point about the subscriptions was that those who don't have a cable service with YES as part of the basic package would either get the upgrade package or switch services. Perhaps that number is smaller than I think, but they do exist.

 

I don't know what other systems YES is available on but I have to believe that if it were a place outside of New York or New Jersey it would be a premium channel as it won't be part of any regional basic sports package that local cable operators carry. Given YES' extremely strong desire to be a considered a local basic channel on the Time Warner and Cablevision systems, I have to believe that the majority of the TV dollars comes from advertising not premium subscribers. As long as the Yankees put a winning team on the field, sponsors will pay through the nose to be on YES.

 

Yeah, the TV network is where it's at. That's why several other big market clubs have their own cable channel. I always catch the Angels on FSN West when I watch on MLB.TV. That market is scary big if they launch their own network.

 

Your point about TV networks is well taken. This is one area that small market teams will never be able to compete unless there is full blown revenue sharing as in the NFL, which I don't mind, but then I believe that 100% of all shared revenue (national and local TV) should be diverted into the team.

[Papelbon58]

I beg to differ, the Sox would be greatly helped by a cap because it would create fair competition in the AL East, as it is the Sox generally have to hope for a wild card at best.

Before free agency started, the Sox were better than the Yankees for a 10 year period. This is impossible under the current system, even if the Sox did somehow beat the Yankees for 1 year the Yankees would win the AL East the next 9.

 

I don't see how the Yankees being guaranteed a playoff berth every year is All-American. If anything it seems to me like a monopoly like Standard Oil. Anyway it makes baseball into a joke when a team can buy their way into the playoffs for eternity.

 

it is not guarenteed, it is not like any moron could throw money around and make this team get into the playoffs. They have had good management I hate to say. It would put the Sox on equal ground with the Yanks, but that is the only team the Sox would gain an advantage on. The rest of the teams would be gaining on us. I still do not want to see a salary cap in baseball.

[CrespoBlows]

How many homegrown Yankees are on the current roster and how many homegrown Red Sox are on the current roster?

 

In fact how many players on the White Sox last year were home grown?

 

Does the Yankees have more or less or around the same number?

 

You can't deny the fact that they Yankees have the advantedge of bringing in new free agents, and retaining the players they bring up.

 

They paid Derek Jeter $19 million dollars. How many other teams have the luxury of doing that? Posada got $12 million, Rivera $10 million, Williams $15 million.

 

You think the A's could do this?

 

If a Yankee farm product doesn't work, they don't need keep him around. They can go replace the hole with a free agent. What if Joe Mauer doesn't develop for the Twins?

[bobby jr]

You can't deny the fact that they Yankees have the advantedge of bringing in new free agents, and retaining the players they bring up.

 

They paid Derek Jeter $19 million dollars. How many other teams have the luxury of doing that? Posada got $12 million, Rivera $10 million, Williams $15 million.

 

You think the A's could do this?

 

If a Yankee farm product doesn't work, they don't need keep him around. They can go replace the hole with a free agent. What if Joe Mauer doesn't develop for the Twins?

 

Your points are well taken. The Yankees not only can buy free agents, they have enough money to keep almost all of their own players from becoming free agents.

 

(Plus they can buy the international stars too under the current system).

 

Imagine the team the Oakland A's would have if they could have kept their home grown talent. They would have been the dominant team of the last decade, not the Yankees.

[bobby jr]

And getting back to the original point of this thread, the Yankees did very poorly when there was a level playing field during the years 1966-75. I believe their organization is so used to having huge advantages that they could not compete if the playing field were leveled with the other teams. At least not for several years.

 

I believe that if there is a salary cap imposed, it is quite possible the Yankees would replace the D Rays in the basement of the AL East.

[ORS]

And getting back to the original point of this thread, the Yankees did very poorly when there was a level playing field during the years 1966-75. I believe their organization is so used to having huge advantages that they could not compete if the playing field were leveled with the other teams. At least not for several years.

 

I believe that if there is a salary cap imposed, it is quite possible the Yankees would replace the D Rays in the basement of the AL East.

That's a bit much. The Yankees do a good job of scouting, and their player development speaks for itself. It would take some time for them to get depth in the minors and for the roster to adjust to a new system, but I have a feeling they'd be successful in it.

 

The Devil Rays have some very good position players knocking on the door, but I can't think of a legit pitcher they've scouted, drafted, and developed. I doubt the Yankees would supplant them in the cellar.

[Mr Crunchy]

dont y'all understand the yankees have never won s***(since reggie) with steinbrenner making the player personal decisions??

the core of the 96-00 team was all home grown talent

they built a team of ballplayers while the felon was placed on sabbatical and they were able to maintain it without his meddling,bitching whining and threats

 

hes the one who brought in arod

hes the one who needed jeff weaver

hes the one who insisted on dumping contreras

hes the one who went out and got kevin brown

hes the one who brought in THE GIAMBINO

hes the one who traded ted lilly eric milton nick johnson and alphonzo

 

they were allowed to develop a solid core of young ballplayers who had character while george was in exile

hes the one who is directly responsible for their suck efforts between 81-94(ken phelps for jay buhner??) and gene michael is the one responsible for the 96-00 efforts

 

nobody outside boston won a title with a payroll exceeding 100M

[CrespoBlows]

dont y'all understand the yankees have never won s***(since reggie) with steinbrenner making the player personal decisions??

the core of the 96-00 team was all home grown talent

they built a team of ballplayers while the felon was placed on sabbatical and they were able to maintain it without his meddling,bitching whining and threats

 

hes the one who brought in arod

hes the one who needed jeff weaver

hes the one who insisted on dumping contreras

hes the one who went out and got kevin brown

hes the one who brought in THE GIAMBINO

hes the one who traded ted lilly eric milton nick johnson and alphonzo

 

they were allowed to develop a solid core of young ballplayers who had character while george was in exile

hes the one who is directly responsible for their suck efforts between 81-94(ken phelps for jay buhner??) and gene michael is the one responsible for the 96-00 efforts

 

nobody outside boston won a title with a payroll exceeding 100M

 

:wtf:

 

Aren't you the guy who makes enormous list because all young players do is fail?

[bobby jr]

dont y'all understand the yankees have never won s***(since reggie) with steinbrenner making the player personal decisions??

the core of the 96-00 team was all home grown talent

they built a team of ballplayers while the felon was placed on sabbatical and they were able to maintain it without his meddling,bitching whining and threats

 

hes the one who brought in arod

hes the one who needed jeff weaver

hes the one who insisted on dumping contreras

hes the one who went out and got kevin brown

hes the one who brought in THE GIAMBINO

hes the one who traded ted lilly eric milton nick johnson and alphonzo

 

they were allowed to develop a solid core of young ballplayers who had character while george was in exile

hes the one who is directly responsible for their suck efforts between 81-94(ken phelps for jay buhner??) and gene michael is the one responsible for the 96-00 efforts

 

nobody outside boston won a title with a payroll exceeding 100M

 

The Yankees may not have won since 2000 but they are in the playoffs every year, and Giambi, A-Rod and Mussina have helped put them there. If they keep getting an automatic tickets to the playoffs they will win their share of World Series in the future. Plus it isn't fair for the other teams in the AL East, or their fans, to see the Damn Yankees buy their way into the post season for decades at a time.

[BudLight]

It's a F*cking BUSINESS!!! Objective of business owners, make money! How do you make money, you have to spend money to make money.

[ORS]

It's a F*cking BUSINESS!!! Objective of business owners, make money! How do you make money, you have to spend money to make money.

It's also a sport.

 

Also, business owners in other industries can move their business to where revenue is maximized. Baseball owners cannot. They are limited by the contraints of the league, otherwise NY, CHI, and LA would all have 4 or more teams.

 

Revenue sharing seems to be working fine for the owners of the NFL, so it would work for baseball too.

[Mr Crunchy]

:wtf:

 

Aren't you the guy who makes enormous list because all young players do is fail?

 

no

i made an enormous lists of prospects who were ""untouchable"" and ended up not living up to expectations and or sucking their entire careers to make a point

prospects are just that

prospects

not allstars,not idols of worship nor items to save for a rainy day

 

if i wanted to watch AAA ball i'd spend more time in pawtucket

[Cocos Disciples]

It's a F*cking BUSINESS!!! Objective of business owners, make money! How do you make money, you have to spend money to make money.

 

Welcome Back.

[bobby jr]

It seems some fans and writiers up in Toronto are getting fed up too, and want a salary cap sooner rather than later.

 

Toronto attendance has gone from averaging over 50000 per game, to the low 20's at present.

 

Here is the link and some excerpts.

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/2006/08/24/1773391-sun.html

 

Luxury Tax Not Working

 

"....To take it even further, what ails the Blue Jays is not just Toronto's problem, but baseball's problem.

 

The Jays jacked up their payroll by nearly 40% this year, from $50 million US to more than $71 million. It was a big step up for this team's ownership, which has lost a ton of money over the years. Unfortunately, in the pursuit of competitive balance within the American League East, that increased spending by Toronto is only a drop in the bucket.

 

This is a division in which the two biggest spenders in baseball -- the Yankees and the Red Sox -- reside and, until Major League Baseball is able to figure out a way to put a punitive muzzle on the free-spending ways of those two rich franchises, the other teams that exist in the AL East have no real possibility of rewarding or growing their fan base. And any team that has no way of rewarding its fans, even occasionally, is courting disaster..."

[He Hate Me]

It seems some fans and writiers up in Toronto are getting fed up too, and want a salary cap sooner rather than later.

 

Toronto attendance has gone from averaging over 50000 per game, to the low 20's at present.

 

Here is the link and some excerpts.

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/2006/08/24/1773391-sun.html

 

Luxury Tax Not Working

 

"....To take it even further, what ails the Blue Jays is not just Toronto's problem, but baseball's problem.

 

The Jays jacked up their payroll by nearly 40% this year, from $50 million US to more than $71 million. It was a big step up for this team's ownership, which has lost a ton of money over the years. Unfortunately, in the pursuit of competitive balance within the American League East, that increased spending by Toronto is only a drop in the bucket.

 

This is a division in which the two biggest spenders in baseball -- the Yankees and the Red Sox -- reside and, until Major League Baseball is able to figure out a way to put a punitive muzzle on the free-spending ways of those two rich franchises, the other teams that exist in the AL East have no real possibility of rewarding or growing their fan base. And any team that has no way of rewarding its fans, even occasionally, is courting disaster..."

 

Yes Blame the Sox and Yankees and ignore the fact that your manager is out there trying to have fistfights with his players. Think that could be a possible reason for the attendance slump?

[a700hitter]

The current system is patently unfair to the small market teams. Revenue sharing and luxury tax don't come close to providing a level playing field. Also, under the current system, I have been told that every dollar the Red Sox pay to improve and preserve Fenway and every dollar that the Yankees use to build a state of the art new toilet in the Bronx come off the top and do not go to revenue sharing. If that's true, the big-market teams have found a way to game the system. At some point the economics of the game will force a change in the current system. Eventually, either some smaller market teams will be squeezed out or the owners will realize that it impedes further expansion. That being said, as unfair as the current system is to small market teams, the large market teams like Boston, the Met, both LA teams, and both Chicago teams have no excuse. They have no one to blame but themselves and the incompetence of their FO's for the fact that the Yankees have been eating their lunch.

[schillingouttheks]

Yes Blame the Sox and Yankees and ignore the fact that your manager is out there trying to have fistfights with his players. Think that could be a possible reason for the attendance slump?

He's actually an Orioles fan.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Well what did they expect when they gave AJ Burnett, someone who is known to be injured so often, that much money? They also spent a lot on an aging catcher. 2/4 major places where they spent money have not worked out. They have nobody to blame but themselves for stupid investments.

[He Hate Me]

He's actually an Orioles fan.

 

yeah, I remember. my reply was meant for the Canuck who was complaining.

[Mr Crunchy]

f*** toronto and their bandwagon fans

they drew 4M back when they won it all and they were the team to offer clemens 32,000,000.00 for 4 years in 1996

they were also big players in this offseason,givin burnett 49M??

f*** THEM

they really should shut the f*** up

theyre as responsible as anyone not named ny in this mess

[ARod2212]

First of all a salary cap won't work, as they would never force the Yankees to release players to get under the cap. So unless you want to incorporate a $200 million cap, it won't happen.

 

The player's union is too strong, they don't let their contracts get renegotiated, if you recall from the near A-Rod trade to Boston. I sincerely doubt they'd let the MLB get away with outright releasing players.

 

Debating about this is an exercise in futility, and a difficult argument to make when teams like the Marlins keep winning World Series. It really becomes a tough sell to claim the Yankees as a monopoly when other teams are winning.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Yes Blame the Sox and Yankees and ignore the fact that your manager is out there trying to have fistfights with his players. Think that could be a possible reason for the attendance slump?

 

What are you talking about, that would make more fans want to go to the games!!

[He Hate Me]

Mets, Red Sox, Yankees = Eighties Evil Preppy Villain, James Spader

World Series = Molly Ringwald

everyone else = Anthony Michael Hall

 

The rich guys always are in the hunt when it comes to scoring a date for the prom because their money always keeps them at a certain status. But the main prize always winds up going with the nice guy, whether he's rich or not.

 

Ok maybe I've been waching too much Pretty in Pink

[Mr Crunchy]

spending only guarantees you an equel playing field

 

tell me

how is cinci or the nationals going to go after say santana when he goes free agent??

theyre not

3 teams maybe 5 could

2 in ny and 1 here in boston and maybe the teams in l.a.

 

the rest of the league cant compete which makes it unfair

and will ultimately turn mlb into the nhl someday

[He Hate Me]

spending only guarantees you an equel playing field

 

tell me

how is cinci or the nationals going to go after say santana when he goes free agent??

theyre not

3 teams maybe 5 could

2 in ny and 1 here in boston and maybe the teams in l.a.

 

the rest of the league cant compete which makes it unfair

and will ultimately turn mlb into the nhl someday

 

The NHL is the NHL because of its own fault. a sport thats basically targeted for white people can succeed, just look at Nascar. It all depends on how you market things.

[ORS]

First of all a salary cap won't work, as they would never force the Yankees to release players to get under the cap. So unless you want to incorporate a $200 million cap, it won't happen.

 

The player's union is too strong, they don't let their contracts get renegotiated, if you recall from the near A-Rod trade to Boston. I sincerely doubt they'd let the MLB get away with outright releasing players.

 

Debating about this is an exercise in futility, and a difficult argument to make when teams like the Marlins keep winning World Series. It really becomes a tough sell to claim the Yankees as a monopoly when other teams are winning.

Those contracts would get grandfathered in, like when the NFL adopted a cap, and the team wouldn't be held against the cap until they ran out.

 

Take off the blinders. Just because a random team can win it from time to time doesn't make the system equitable. The NFL system is much more fair, yet the good organizations stay near the top. I have no doubt something similar would occur with baseball, and that the Yankees would be good more often than bad because they would hire the best and brightest to run the show. They just wouldn't get every player that they target -- like the rest of the league.

[Jon_Papelboner]

spending only guarantees you an equel playing field

 

tell me

how is cinci or the nationals going to go after say santana when he goes free agent??

theyre not

3 teams maybe 5 could

2 in ny and 1 here in boston and maybe the teams in l.a.

 

the rest of the league cant compete which makes it unfair

and will ultimately turn mlb into the nhl someday

No, that'll never happen. nothing could be as bad as the nhl.