It time to fire Theo !!

[Mr Crunchy]

this is amazing

 

we trot out kc and cleveland waiver wire s*** bags 40% of the time and a rookie who now resembles bambi in the headlites 20% of the time.

 

any idea what our 3-4-5 pitchers have done since the national league left us??

 

and you'd still make the deal for an outfielder who struggles to catch the ball ,,had a career batting avg of .248 in the best hitters park in the league and would strike out 200xs a year given 600abs??

 

are you a yankee fan in denial??

[Mr Crunchy]

and by the way jsing

i do appreciate you sticking by your guns

 

lesser men wouldnt

[ahhchon]

arroyo:

 

7ip 0ER: COLORADO 2nd Last Place NL west

16ip 0ER: WASHINGTON Last Place NL east

20ip 4ER: CUBS 2nd Last NL central

7ip 2ER: KC Last Place AL central

29ip 14ER: BREWERS 3rd Last NL central

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/standings?year=season_2006&type=wild+card

 

KC is in LAST place in the AL

washington and the cubs are 2nd and 3rd last in the NL

MIL and COL are 6th and 9th last respectively

 

CLE 6ip 4er

ATL 10ip 11er

HOU 12.2ip 7er

LAD 6.0ip 4er

NYM 17.0ip 4er

PIT 6.0ip 4er (dead last in NL too)

STL 14.0ip 6er

ARI 12ip 7er

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6498/splits;_ylt=AgWPjQ10fSc1VV6VjRb..XCFCLcF

 

his era+ was 98 last year, average.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/arroybr01.shtml

 

don't get me wrong, arroyo isn't garbage. i can't say that he would be doing as well as he is in the AL, especially if still with the sox. i think he had some extra motivation, at the beginning of the season he was pitching with much more focus and much more confidence.

 

he was better pre-break, most teams in the nl have never faced him. just look at his stats against the better teams? most of his dominance is agaist last place or teams under .500 90 (about) of his innings are against poor teams. that's more than half of his IP. not to mention all of the teams he pitched well against are in the BOTTOM 3rd of Runs scored, hits, rbi's etc..

 

he's doing well, or was doing well. it's not looking as great now because we need a SP, but at the beginning of the season we had too many (i know, i even said you can't have too many and had my doubts about willy mo) but the point is that arroyo was just not that good.

 

john

[ahhchon]

I too would make the trade and I would stand by it. Pena is not a 4th outfielder by any means. He is a better player than trot nixon and should have been ahead of nixon for most of the year. Arroyo is nothing more than a 4th or 5th starter who would be exposed alot more in the AL.

 

that is a bold statement.. he is not better than trot nixon right now. (healthy trot nixon right now).. maybe next year, maybe the year after, but not right now. he was rocking a .355 OBP against lefties and .400 + against righties.

 

john

[jsinger121]

that is a bold statement.. he is not better than trot nixon right now. (healthy trot nixon right now).. maybe next year, maybe the year after, but not right now. he was rocking a .355 OBP against lefties and .400 + against righties.

 

john

 

trot nixon has no power anymore. I'll take Pena's power over nixon's singles anyday. team's don't fear nixon anymore. he is too injury prone and his power went very quickly which raises a red flag to me. everyone is scared to play pena because they think he can't field his position. hes looked pretty damn good so far when trot has been on the shelf and given this team a better bat to boost as well. nixon is done as a player in my eyes and unfortunately it took an injury to him to get Pena in the lineup more when he should have been playing more before that.

[Mr Crunchy]

jon lester was beaten by the kc royals last nite sir

we're 3-7 in tampa

we were 1 bob wickman deal away from being swept by cleveland who came into fenway at a blistering 4-12 pace after the all star break

the royals also shoudlve taken 2-3 against us.

 

nobody is comparing arroyo to cy young

he is what he is

a usefeful inning eater who's cheap and infinitley more useful than jj johnson corey snyder and the lenny dinardos of the world

[SCM33]

I too would make the trade and I would stand by it. Pena is not a 4th outfielder by any means. He is a better player than trot nixon and should have been ahead of nixon for most of the year. Arroyo is nothing more than a 4th or 5th starter who would be exposed alot more in the AL.

 

 

Agree 100%. Ive been one of Penas biggest supporters, and just like Ive said before, I would make the deal again, twice on Sunday.

 

This team was not built to win this year, they just happened to exceed expectations for the first half of the season. I can tell you what though...like I said before, Bronson Arroyo doesn't change the outcome much had he stayed in Boston. Anyone who believes that Bronson Arroyo makes this team a World Series contender needs a reality check. The World Series champion is not coming from the AL east. Bronson Arroyo doesn't make the difference. The Yankees are not winning the World Series this year. Neither team will pitch enough to keep up with Detroit, or Chicago. God forbidt when Buerhle and the rest of the CHI-town staff figure it out again, because they aren't as bad as theyve shown this year.. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I dont care where Bronson Arroyo is slotted in your starting staff, Detroit and Chicago (yes even this years staff) has someone better. This would have been Arroyos third season here, which meant a third season of seeing his same junk pitches, which by the way were becoming less and less effective not to mention the fact that against a team like the Yankees, who are lefty dominated...he would have been murdered.

 

Bronson Arroyo would maybe.....MAYBE get us to the playoffs, but who the f*** cares when we are bounced out in the first round? What the f*** does it matter when you are just succumbing to the inevitable?

 

This team today, Arroyo or not does not match up against the best teams in baseball, and that is because is was never meant to. The teams of next season, and following seasons at least give us promise.

 

Do you think Detroit thought they would be competing with the best teams in baseball and have the best record 3 years removed from starting the seaon 0-18 or something crazy like that? Do you think that Detroit thought that they would get these performances from Bonderman and Maroth (injured) who led baseball in losses at young ages? Do you think they would be getting bullpen outings like this from Rodney who also took his lumps? or from Robertson who took his lumps last season? What about Zemaya? The answer is that they had hope, and talented young arms...something we have and decided not to give away. Detroit created a blueprint for success. The only difference is that we are putting young arms in a position to have modest success in a playoff run which can only help their chances of future success and give them a faster learning curve than those arms in Detroit had.

 

If we were Detroit a few years back, I guarentee this board would read the same, if not worse. We would all be clamoring for the trades of Maroth, Bonderman and others to achieve success now. That is because Boston fans are never satisfied and have adopted a win now attitude, much like the Yankees. The truth is however, NewYork built their franchise of the 90's on their own home grown talent, which brought the market back to NY so they were able to generate their huge revenue and gave them incentive to add other big names to their already home grown talent pool. New York has gotten away from that over the years, and I dont want Boston to make the same mistakes that NY made. Keep the talent, build a franchise....because over the next few years I think we will see NY continuing to make the playoffs, but not win anything until they themselves decide the farm is more important, much like we are doing in Boston. Detroit is the next franchise and much like ATL, they are building it around the pitching staff...which is what Boston is trying to do.

 

Keep the faith, and please have a little more patience. Try to enjoy the competitive team we have right now, but dont lose sight on the future. There is no shame in rooting for a team 2 games back in a year that is considered a youth movement season.

 

Before commenting, please read the WHOLE post, and try to understand where I am coming from.

-Sweet Chin Music33

[rician blast]

good post and many valid points.

 

i think we're of differing opinions regarding whether the Sox should have been going for it this year or building for another...my thought is that you don't make a trade of one of your more useful pitchers that early in the year...not when the return is a POTENTIALLY good OF. Part of my thought process stems from the fact that Bronson was relatively cheap in terms of starting pitchers salaries...and he was young...and he demonstrated some loyalty to the club with his most recent signing...and he didn't bash the Sox on the way out.

 

The following part of your post I have to disagree with:

 

If we were Detroit a few years back, I guarentee this board would read the same, if not worse. We would all be clamoring for the trades of Maroth, Bonderman and others to achieve success now.

 

Detroit a few years back was nowhere close to where the Sox were at the start of 2006. If the Sox were that lame, that obviously out of the running before the season started, I don't think there'd be a lot of Sox fans screaming to get rid of the young guns in exchange for immediate success.

 

Why? Because I think Sox fans know when you are that far from being competetive you don't add a few studs and think that'll carry you to success. I really believe that knowledgable fans, in general, understand that you make those moves when you are close, not when you are struggling. In times of rebuilding you hang on to young talent to develop your core...then when the time is right the club is honed through FA, trades, etc.

 

Of course the Sox are what they are now and IMO they are ill-equipped to win a playoff round...I wonder, though, down the line (2007,2008) how much value Wily Mo will be adding in comparison to the inings eater the Red Sox had in Arroyo. Seems whether I look at the trade long-range or short I don't like it.

[CrespoBlows]

lets be clear

jon lester will not be roy oswalt ever

 

between the genious's who run the a's and the braves theyve been to the post season 20xs since 1991

they won 1 title

the marlins won more

the dbax as many

 

i dont know a more overrated ******** concept than money ball and it should be renamed loser ball or

lets f*** our fans ball

 

any doubts as to why those ball parks are empty,even in the post season??

 

Tell me what Moneyball is exactly?

[riverside sluggers]

Sorry guys, but some posters on here will agree with me on this one:

 

Topics getting past their prime

not resigning Pedro

not resigning Damon

trading Bronson for Wily Mo Pena (yes Sox should be instead traded Clement but was blocked because of his contract. But hey already, from what Ive seen, Im writing to Tito that right field now belongs to Wily Mo.)

[riverside sluggers]

that is a bold statement.. he is not better than trot nixon right now. (healthy trot nixon right now).. maybe next year, maybe the year after, but not right now. he was rocking a .355 OBP against lefties and .400 + against righties.

 

john

 

When is Trot healthy? Oh thats right up until 2003 he was healthy. Honestly it would be foolish for the Sox to resign Trot to a longer deal to hold onto the starting position

 

haha mr. spin much? Yes he was "rocking" a .355 obp against lefties, the same time he was hitting .213 against them. His obp is that high just because of walks & an occasional HBP

[TheKilo]

Sorry guys, but some posters on here will agree with me on this one:

 

Topics getting past their prime

not resigning Pedro

not resigning Damon

trading Bronson for Wily Mo Pena (yes Sox should be instead traded Clement but was blocked because of his contract. But hey already, from what Ive seen, Im writing to Tito that right field now belongs to Wily Mo.)

 

 

Hell yes. THANK YOU.

[ORS]

that is a bold statement.. he is not better than trot nixon right now. (healthy trot nixon right now).. maybe next year, maybe the year after, but not right now. he was rocking a .355 OBP against lefties and .400 + against righties.

 

john

Not so. WMP's power makes up for Trot's OBP.

 

EqA

 

WMP - .296

Trot - .292

[guapo34]

Crunchy, you can also drop the "we should've traded Lester for Oswalt argument." Its rediculous. The trade would've been Lester, Hansen, and Crisp for Oswalt. This was before Nixon got hurt so I assume Wily Mo would've played center the rest of the year.

 

Yes, Oswalt is a better pitcher than Lester, but at what cost? We'd control Oswalt for the rest of this year and next year. It would cost a similar contract to whatever Zito gets this offseason to keep him. Lester is a rookie making the league minimum and under our control for 6 more years before he can become a free agent. The same is true for Hansen except he is making 1 million, not the league minimum. While this might improve us this year it hurts us for the next 5 years.

[rician blast]

You criticize moneyball,

yet you completely contradict yourself.

What a thoughtless post.

The whole f***in reason the concept of

moneyball come about is because the A's who

dont generate much revenue had to find other

ways of remaining competitive, like using SABR stats

(which I am also sure you know nothing about, but will pretend).

Your going to put down a team like the A's

who lose HUGE STAR

players every year, but continually f

inishes in first place?

If you ask me, what the A's do is

incredible. I dont think many teams

scout the way they do.

 

Before you criticize something, please understand the thing you are going to criticize.

 

PS....I typed my post in the drunken format you use so maybe you understand it better.

 

Before you criticize SOMEONE you might want to give some thought to his previous positions on the same or similar topics, the manner in which he's supported those positions and his posting history in general.

 

Drunken format? Thoughtless post? Seems to me your words best describe your own post.

[jacksonianmarch]

The thing I don't understand is why the hell Theo wants to play moneyball and model after teams like Atlanta and Oakland when we're the SECOND RICHEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. Oakland has nowhere near the fanbase or money that we have, forcing them to have such large value for young players and prospects. We can afford to lose a prospect or two to acquire a Roy Oswalt. Jon Lester would be lucky to ever be on Roy Oswalt's level. Don't get me wrong, I like Lester, but he's a prospect and you can just look at our recent history and see multiple highly valued prospects that failed. When you have Manny and Ortiz, two of the best power hitters in the game and both MVP candidates in their prime, and a pitching rotation that could use one more premier pitcher to put them to the next level, you have to give up a prospect or two. Schilling, Oswalt, and Beckett could have been the most dangerous pitching trio in the playoffs and you add a lights out closer and an already potent offense, come on. All I have to say is that Hansen and Lester better turn out to be what everyone is building them up to be or Theo will look like a fool in the eyes of many.

 

Put it this way. If the sox do not make the Pena deal, then they can afford to make the deal for Oswalt. They would then have Schilling, Beckett, Oswalt, Arroyo and Wells. You could book the rings right now with that rotation.

[jacksonianmarch]

arroyo:

 

7ip 0ER: COLORADO 2nd Last Place NL west

16ip 0ER: WASHINGTON Last Place NL east

20ip 4ER: CUBS 2nd Last NL central

7ip 2ER: KC Last Place AL central

29ip 14ER: BREWERS 3rd Last NL central

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/standings?year=season_2006&type=wild+card

 

KC is in LAST place in the AL

washington and the cubs are 2nd and 3rd last in the NL

MIL and COL are 6th and 9th last respectively

 

CLE 6ip 4er

ATL 10ip 11er

HOU 12.2ip 7er

LAD 6.0ip 4er

NYM 17.0ip 4er

PIT 6.0ip 4er (dead last in NL too)

STL 14.0ip 6er

ARI 12ip 7er

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6498/splits;_ylt=AgWPjQ10fSc1VV6VjRb..XCFCLcF

 

his era+ was 98 last year, average.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/arroybr01.shtml

 

don't get me wrong, arroyo isn't garbage. i can't say that he would be doing as well as he is in the AL, especially if still with the sox. i think he had some extra motivation, at the beginning of the season he was pitching with much more focus and much more confidence.

 

he was better pre-break, most teams in the nl have never faced him. just look at his stats against the better teams? most of his dominance is agaist last place or teams under .500 90 (about) of his innings are against poor teams. that's more than half of his IP. not to mention all of the teams he pitched well against are in the BOTTOM 3rd of Runs scored, hits, rbi's etc..

 

he's doing well, or was doing well. it's not looking as great now because we need a SP, but at the beginning of the season we had too many (i know, i even said you can't have too many and had my doubts about willy mo) but the point is that arroyo was just not that good.

 

john

 

Look at Arroyo's QS% on the season or even last season. Compare that to the combination of Wells, Lester, Johnson, Clement, etc etc etc. He blows em all away.

[Mr Crunchy]

Tell me what Moneyball is exactly?

 

 

are you testing me on my baseball knowledge??

 

money ball is a concept of using obp and ops rather than a stop watch and other pertinent stats like batting avg and rbi's which are dismissed

money ball has no room for the dave roberts of the league

kevin youkilis would be a prized possession in money ball

it doesnt steal bases

it doesnt bunt either

it dont worry about strikeouts

 

bill james and billy beane i believe are the premier architechts of the stats system that you call money ball to evaluate talent.

 

the book was writtne by michael lewis essenially pontificating all thats billy beane i believe

i didnt read it

i knew enough of the great billy beane after the twins removed them from the 02 season as the a's were heavy favorites to win it all

the next billy beane playoff series victory will be his 1st

ya limited payroll

ya hes in the barbed wire capitol of america

ya oakland is the worst city in america not named newark

 

i also didnt read

HOW THE UFOS BROUGHT DOWN THE TOWERS either

i find them both to be absurd

 

i find money ball flawed and i think that billy beane and the a's,despite having tremendous regular season success just like the atlanta braves,have greatly underachieved every fall

just like the atlanta braves

with the exception of the 95 season and tommy glavines game 6 shut out the braves are the buffalo bills X14

 

moneyball does nothing for me

i prefer small ball or the speed game personally and anyone who thinks the team with the 2nd highest payroll in the game is playing moneyball needs an education in arithmetic.

[Mr Crunchy]

phil plantier is the guy i'd compare to wily mo pena most

him or sam horn

[yeszir]

phil plantier is the guy i'd compare to wily mo pena most

him or sam horn

Should we change our name to Sons of Wily Mo Pena?

[Mr Crunchy]

ha

i never thought of that sir

 

i'd prefer wily put about 500hrs and 1200rbi on the board before they give him his own chatroom full of nerds sissies and child molesters

im not fond of that place

[elsrbueno]

are you testing me on my baseball knowledge??

 

money ball is a concept of using obp and ops rather than a stop watch and other pertinent stats like batting avg and rbi's which are dismissed

money ball has no room for the dave roberts of the league

kevin youkilis would be a prized possession in money ball

it doesnt steal bases

it doesnt bunt either

it dont worry about strikeouts

 

bill james and billy beane i believe are the premier architechts of the stats system that you call money ball to evaluate talent.

 

the book was writtne by michael lewis essenially pontificating all thats billy beane i believe

i didnt read it

i knew enough of the great billy beane after the twins removed them from the 02 season as the a's were heavy favorites to win it all

the next billy beane playoff series victory will be his 1st

ya limited payroll

ya hes in the barbed wire capitol of america

ya oakland is the worst city in america not named newark

 

i also didnt read

HOW THE UFOS BROUGHT DOWN THE TOWERS either

i find them both to be absurd

 

i find money ball flawed and i think that billy beane and the a's,despite having tremendous regular season success just like the atlanta braves,have greatly underachieved every fall

just like the atlanta braves

with the exception of the 95 season and tommy glavines game 6 shut out the braves are the buffalo bills X14

 

moneyball does nothing for me

i prefer small ball or the speed game personally and anyone who thinks the team with the 2nd highest payroll in the game is playing moneyball needs an education in arithmetic.

 

You really should read moneyball before you bash its theories-- which you've misunderstood completely.

 

Moneyball is about finding VALUE. At the time, high OBP guys were undervalued and the Oakland A's went after those guys. Sure, in the book sluggers were valued more than defensive players, but take a look at the A's these days-- they've made moves that specifically beef up their defense (Mark Kotsay for example).

 

It isn't called MONEYball because Billy Beane loves Kevin Youkilis and players like him. It's about how 1 team played the market to get undervalued players (Bradford, Hatteberg, etc) because it had no choice.

[rician blast]

Let me make this easy for you to understand. Something = Moneyball. You are an idiot. Someone? Moneyball is a person? He criticized moneyball, and didn't even know what it was. You are a moron. My quote was in reference to moneyball. Moneyball is not a person meatstick, Its actually a book, a noun, a thing. Do you have your own shortbus? Thats what my quote was in reference to jackass, re-read the post......nice try though buddy. You ALMOSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT had me though.

 

PS. It had nothing to do with you anyway, and in the process you made yourself look like a snot nosed prick trying to prove FACT wrong. God I love my job and the anger it gives me everyday.:thumbsup: :harhar:

 

Hey Sweet:

 

Are you always this stupid or are you just making a special effort today? Did you even READ my post? Did I say moneyball was a person? How the hell did you conjure up that out of my post?

 

Let me explain it to you, although after your misguided insults you don't deserve an explanation:

 

You said to Crunchy "Before you criticize something, please understand the thing you are going to criticize. "

 

And I replied that "Before you criticize SOMEONE", you essentially should think of whom your criticizing and why, before attacking them personally. I even bolded the SOMEONE to draw a distinction between your post and mine and ensure that someone with limited intelligence wouldn't read it as if I was quoting you. Yet you still managed to f*** it up.

 

It's just absolutely mind-boggling that you'd go on the attack like that, using my post as the basis, yet clearly not understanding a thing you read. Let me summarize my position here for you:

 

you attacked Mr. Crunchy regarding his understanding of moneyball, a topic I know he is familiar with, one that he has expressed his opinions on clearly in the past...and I pointed out that before you criticize him, make sure you know his position and maybe take into account his posting history.

 

Yet you twist my comments into something they are not...that's despicable, cowardly and childish and I have no use for you or your ilk....I've seen your kind before (although I had to pay an admission).

 

And if you are even thinking of replying, save your breath...You'll need it to blow up your date.

[Mr Crunchy]

chad bradford??

did you forget us fans here in boston had the misfortune of having him here last summer??

 

pay attention for a minute here

billy beane drafts very very well,hes got an eye for talent or as you call it value.

billy beane has had a remarkable run of drafting arms that have stayed healthy

really

i cant think of any catastrophic injuries occuring to mulder hudson or zito while they were in oakland,isringhausen was at his best while closing in oakland too.

 

look at his picks and how durable theyve been thru the years

its rather amazing and this in my opinion is the reason for the his success

although you cant help but like the kotsays and the crosbys and the swishers of the league as well.

 

based on this fact alone the a's have had a lot of regular season success playing in the american league west

 

its no mystery

its no epiphany of a new way to play to the game either

 

it is what it is

a theory that subscibes to low market ball clubs

 

the a's have been succesful because they pitch very well

sir

this isnt a mystery

its how its been done since abner doubleday invented the game

their pitching has been healthy and they play in a pitchers ball park

however

once they see the big boy shows in boston ny or even st paul??

they fold their tents and go back to the bay with their asses handed to them

 

the next time i get an urger to read the national enquirer i will pick up this money ball book that y'all consider your bible....i like good fiction from time to time

 

bottom line

billy boys a's have been successful because they pitch very well and have had a remarkable run of good health with their young arms over the years

and this is due to a gm that is good in evaluating talent

i wont take that away from him,,nobody can

[elsrbueno]

chad bradford??

did you forget us fans here in boston had the misfortune of having him here last summer??

 

pay attention for a minute here

billy beane drafts very very well,hes got an eye for talent or as you call it value.

billy beane has had a remarkable run of drafting arms that have stayed healthy

really

i cant think of any catastrophic injuries occuring to mulder hudson or zito while they were in oakland,isringhausen was at his best while closing in oakland too.

 

look at his picks and how durable theyve been thru the years

its rather amazing and this in my opinion is the reason for the his success

although you cant help but like the kotsays and the crosbys and the swishers of the league as well.

 

based on this fact alone the a's have had a lot of regular season success playing in the american league west

 

its no mystery

its no epiphany of a new way to play to the game either

 

it is what it is

a theory that subscibes to low market ball clubs

 

the a's have been succesful because they pitch very well

sir

this isnt a mystery

its how its been done since abner doubleday invented the game

their pitching has been healthy and they play in a pitchers ball park

however

once they see the big boy shows in boston ny or even st paul??

they fold their tents and go back to the bay with their asses handed to them

 

the next time i get an urger to read the national enquirer i will pick up this money ball book that y'all consider your bible....i like good fiction from time to time

 

bottom line

billy boys a's have been successful because they pitch very well and have had a remarkable run of good health with their young arms over the years

and this is due to a gm that is good in evaluating talent

i wont take that away from him,,nobody can

 

Now wait a minute.

 

The only thing I said is that you were misunderstanding the moneyball THEORY, which I still think is true and you haven't refuted.

 

I have not said that what it says is gospel and that the Red Sox should follow it to the letter.

 

Billy Beane has been exceptionally lucky that Mulder/Hudson/Zito were all amazing in Oakland and he successfully sold high on Mulder and Hudson (who have both been dissapointments on their new teams). The Atlanta trade didn't work out very well but one could argue that Dan Haren (just one small piece of the Mulder trade) has been as good as Mulder alone since the deal. This obviously AGREES with you that he is good at evaluating talent and perhaps he got lucky with Haren or perhaps him or someone on his staff said : "It's time to sell on Mark Mulder, he's going downhill." Who knows.

 

Anyway before you attack me and label me read what I wrote-- which was very simply that the Moneyball theory isn't exactly what you think it is.

 

We can debate all day long whether or not OBP and the 3 run homer and the conservative offensive approach that oftentimes is associated with Moneyball is a successful strategy, but calling that strategy the "Moneyball" strategy is incorrect in my opinion. That's simply not what it was about.

[Mr Crunchy]

not once did i question billys ability to evaluate talent

 

my only bone of contention with billy is hes being labeled a genious without winning s*** and has been blessed with an incredible amount of luck via the health thing

 

i think i grasp the basic concept of moneyball and

i do understand the limitations of small market baseball to a certain extent

carl pohlad maybe the richest owner in baseball

he owns the twins and cries poor

who owns the a's??

mc hammer??

 

anyways

i have a problem with computers and adding machines replacing men with vision when it comes to building a baseball team

the little things get missed when it comes to money ball i fear

intangibles arent a thing that can be used on a calculator

[elsrbueno]

not once did i question billys ability to evaluate talent

 

my only bone of contention with billy is hes being labeled a genious without winning s*** and has been blessed with an incredible amount of luck via the health thing

 

i think i grasp the basic concept of moneyball and

i do understand the limitations of small market baseball to a certain extent

carl pohlad maybe the richest owner in baseball

he owns the twins and cries poor

who owns the a's??

mc hammer??

 

anyways

i have a problem with computers and adding machines replacing men with vision when it comes to building a baseball team

the little things get missed when it comes to money ball i fear

intangibles arent a thing that can be used on a calculator

 

I agree that stats don't replace scouts.

 

The only reason why I piped up is to differentiate the difference between the PHILOSOPHY of "Moneyball" and Beane's execution.

[Mr Crunchy]

fair enough

i enjoy the back and forth sir and certainly dont think i invented the game

i do watch almost every inning the sox play and am a big fan of my local high school and american legion teams

i watch most of their home games with my kids.

 

i like the nl speed game better than the old sox style of softball like teams.

speed never slumps and its a valuable offensive asset when facing stud pitchers

so is bunting,hit and running etc....

i love to put pressure on the other teams defense and pitching staff and thats a quality i dont find in the money ball style of the game.

hey

6 in 1

1/2 dozen in the other

 

when the sox win i rarely bitch about anything

when they lose 2 in kc i want to stab my secretary

 

i rarely get involved in the petty ******** squabbles with fellow sox fans nor does my esteemed collegue and very accomplished ball player in his own right

mr rician

 

im 40 years old

ive havent witnessed many teams win without a deep pitching staff including the bullpen

i believe pitching wins in baseball above and beyond all else and i dont believe in dealing it under any circumstances for anything other than other pitching.

[yeszir]

Alright guys, back on topic now.

[rician blast]

You know the funniest thing though, is that I got a rise out of you. Dealing with inmates all day really makes you cynical. You can say whatever you would like because the thing I still find most amusing, is that it had NOTHING to do with you and you got all fired up anyway. If you don't know of my history, here it is: I put a lot of effort into my posts (read the really long one in this thread a page back or so) when people dont put in the time to respond, or respond with nonsense, it irritates me....so then I attack the nonsense with more nonsense, if someone comes back at me.....I will try to get a rise out of someone, which is exactly what I did to you, and happy to say I feel much better about it.

 

Girlfriends? Nope I dont have one, havent for over a year. I am actually engaged to be married, so try fiance, and thank you your concern in the matter :harhar:

 

Technically you are correct...your initial post wasn’t directed toward me...although I’ll say more than superficially my response was appropriate as you insulted a poster I've had the pleasure of knowing for quite some time and whom I thought did not deserve to be insulted. Remember your posts in this forum are for public consumption and as such are fair game for comment.

 

I did read your post, and perhaps you were making some decent point(s), but when posts are laced with comments like “thoughtless post” or “I typed in drunken format so maybe you can understand it” I’d consider them inflammatory, not thoughtful. Some posters deserve such treatment. Those who put forth effort and thought into their posts, as his Crunchiness does, do not deserve that treatment. While he certainly doesn’t need me to speak on his behalf…and I’ll keep that in mind in the future…I responded nonetheless, suggesting you think who you are insulting before making the comment.

 

As far as “getting a rise out of me” I wouldn’t characterize the situation as such. It’d more accurate to say your total misunderstanding…deliberate or not…and absolute twisting of my comments, done to try and make me look bad, wreaks of cowardice and I wasn’t going to allow you to misrepresent my post to feed your own desire to “get a rise out of someone”. Fact is you misread my post and bashed me for your misunderstanding…and that, sir, needed to be answered.

 

As Mr. Crunchy has pointed out, this type of trivial bickering isn’t typically part of my game…but I do stand up for myself and others when unjustly ripped…and will continue to do so. At this point, though, I’m through with this silly quarrel, this inane dispute, this ridiculous tiff, this….you get the point. Time to let this go.