It time to fire Theo !!

[jsinger121]

Not wanting to trade your young players now (and jeopardize the future) to help the current team isn't a good excuse. The Sox are a team that doesn't need to necessarily have to worry about young players as they are a team with the financial means to sign good players at the end of each season. So not wanting to trade away prospects that may never turn out to be anything to help this sesaon when there's a chance to go all the way just doesn't make sense. There were some definite gaps that the Sox could have filled to really bear down for the stretch run.

 

I mean if you take a look at the Reds, they went out and aggresively tried to fill their holes and they aren't even a team that anyone really fears yet the Red Sox have a brutal battle with the the Yanks, White Sox, and Twins on their hands for the next 2 months and did nothing. They really needed some pitching help especially with the trouble the Yankees and White Sox have had (and the Twins now face with Liriano's injury). The team with the stronger staff in the playoffs will be the only ones who will be able to compete with the Tigers right now.

 

The Reds also gave away 2 quality regulars for average bullpen arms.

[the FRANCH15E]

The Reds also gave away 2 quality regulars for average bullpen arms.

 

They tried though. I'm not bashing Theo at all as he's done a great job so far in his career. I just hope not doing something doesn't come back to bite the Sox in the rears. I also don't think making a move just to say you did is a good idea either. Basically whatever these guys do is a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario...

[jsinger121]

They tried though. I'm not bashing Theo at all as he's done a great job so far in his career. I just hope not doing something doesn't come back to bite the Sox in the rears. I also don't think making a move just to say you did is a good idea either. Basically whatever these guys do is a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario...

 

Ya the Reds tried but they could have gotten average relievers for less than they gave up and for that they get a poor grade in my mind.

[ahhchon]

I almost puked reading this thread. I suggest finding a girlfriend. Who brags about how much of a geek they are anyway?

 

why does everyone quickly assume that people who says something that they find untrue online to not have a girlfriend? the fact is that i do have a girlfriend. one who i have been dating for almost 4 years. not to mention i DO have a life. well not really, i work 25 hours a week, i have a 19 credit load (full summer semester), i do community service and i volunteer at a nursing home while visiting my grandmother 2X a week. when i'm not training for my XC races i watch baseball and read baseball.

 

btw, i am proud of being a geek, i study a lot, that's because people's well being are going to be in my hands.

 

I wouldn't be proud of that, and uh..just because you can run a fantasy team against your buddies and watch a baseball game doesn't mean you could be a good GM, you need to go to law school and learn about law and business management to be qualified. You can't just put the fact that you play fantasy baseball on your resume. You need the credentials and the background to even be considered for that position, so saying "give me his salary and I can do just as good as him" is fantasy talk.

 

assuming only makes an ass out of you and me. i don't play against my friends, i have been playing in money leagues for years, ones which cost 75 to play and the other 100 (payouts for 1st and 2nd).

 

you people need to get off theo's cock. i like him, he's a good GM, but there is NOTHING wrong with having confidence in oneself. i have a pretty good baseball knowledge, i've read many baseball books and i've been following baseball for many years. it's not a crime to say that i feel that i can run a baseball team.

 

if you actually READ what i wrote "granted fantasy baseball is different than real baseball" i had allready stated the fact that they were different, no need to restate it. not to mention that i didn't say "give me his salary and I can do just as good as him". i said "give me his salary and his job and i bet i could do a decent job" don't twist my words in order to help your petty arguement. as i stated before, the guys LIFE/JOB is baseball. if baseball was my LIFE/JOB i would be able to do a pretty damn decent job at it, probably as well as theo.

 

who has no life? the guy who thinks he can run a baseball team because he believes in himself or the guy rejecting his statements on an online forum?

 

john

[BoSox34]

who has no life? the guy who thinks he can run a baseball team because he believes in himself or the guy rejecting his statements on an online forum?

 

john

 

The guy who has the nerve to think that he could be a decent GM in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL without any experience or any background in business management or law school. You should call up Larry and John Henry and tell them the same story you told us, I guarantee you would hear about 20 minutes of laughter and then the sound of rejection as they hang up the phone.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

The guy who has the nerve to think that he could be a decent GM in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL without any experience or any background in business management or law school. You should call up Larry and John Henry and tell them the same story you told us, I guarantee you would hear about 20 minutes of laughter and then the sound of rejection as they hang up the phone.

Chill a little. Ahhchon didn't say he expects to take over a GM spot soon. What he stated was that he has demonstrated some of the abilities that a GM would need. Meaning that Fantasy Leagues are basically a simulation tool or model to practice in. The more competitive the league the better the experience. When people are competing with their own money, they tend to very competitive. Take the military as an example. They don't take some new recruit ( academy graduate even ), in stick him inside a $ 100 million piece of equipment. They establish base line requirements both physical and mental, then educational training on the equipment, and then many hours of traning on a SIMULATOR before they get a chance a the real thing.

 

The key point here is that Ahhchon has consistently demonstrated a progressive development of his baseball knowledge and abilities. He's also consistently contributed some of the more knowledgeable on the site. So back off.

[BoSox34]

I'm not even going to argue this because it's sooo dumb. It's called fantasy baseball for a reason. They aren't even similar. You have to do so much more as a GM in real life.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

I'm not even going to argue this because it's sooo dumb. It's called fantasy baseball for a reason. They aren't even similar. You have to do so much more as a GM in real life.

Based on all your vast experience, you have the inside track on the requirements for being a GM. I think not.

[schillingouttheks]

I'm not even going to argue this because it's sooo dumb. It's called fantasy baseball for a reason. They aren't even similar. You have to do so much more as a GM in real life.

The funny thing is that you would probably be saying the same thing to ahhchon a few years ago if ahhchon was actually Theo himself.

[BoSox34]

If ahhcon said that he was planning on going to business or law school and he was planning on studying business management with a goal of becoming a GM, then that would be cool, it's good if you put in the work...but to say that you could be a GM without mentioning any intentions of actually putting in the work to have the credentials and then going on to mention your fantasy baseball background just strikes me as funny.

[MC Hammer]

How can you not see the HUGE differences between fntasy sports and real sports. You don't have to worry about payroll, you don't have to worry about personality conflicts, you dont have to worry about team chemisty. There are no minor leagues.

 

I dont feel like listing the million other differences. They're as similar as being the president of the Nysnc fan club, and being the President of the country.

[Cityofchampions33]

There are many differences we can name and even some we cannot name, it doesnt just take watching 2 games a night to be a good GM, and thats a pretty bold statement to say youd be just as good if not better than Theo Epstein is. Then basically yoru saying you can win a World Series in 2 years. Im gunna stop goin at this because its kinda stupid, but basically Id say if it was so easy a bunch of internet forum guys could do it, then there'd be one in KC, Pittsburgh, and all the other bad cities.

[BoSox34]

Thank you. For a while there, I thought I was the only one who found that ridiculous.

[Papelbon58]

Thank you. For a while there, I thought I was the only one who found that ridiculous.

i thought the same thing, but I passed it as too ridiculous to comment on for fear I might break into a rage and get myself banned

[jacksonianmarch]

The guy who has the nerve to think that he could be a decent GM in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL without any experience or any background in business management or law school. You should call up Larry and John Henry and tell them the same story you told us, I guarantee you would hear about 20 minutes of laughter and then the sound of rejection as they hang up the phone.

 

While I think his assertion that he would be good right now is funny to say the least, the best GMs in history never learned a lick of business or law in school. They were guys who proved that they could evaluate talent and they also played the game at a high level. These new execs these days are no better than the previous guys who were just great baseball guys.

[BoSox34]

True but that's what a lot of GMs need these days to qualify.

[ahhchon]

The guy who has the nerve to think that he could be a decent GM in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL without any experience or any background in business management or law school. You should call up Larry and John Henry and tell them the same story you told us, I guarantee you would hear about 20 minutes of laughter and then the sound of rejection as they hang up the phone.

 

you are reading each and everyone of my post with a predisposed biased and hatred.. SFOC said it best in his post here:

 

Chill a little. Ahhchon didn't say he expects to take over a GM spot soon. What he stated was that he has demonstrated some of the abilities that a GM would need. Meaning that Fantasy Leagues are basically a simulation tool or model to practice in. The more competitive the league the better the experience. When people are competing with their own money, they tend to very competitive. Take the military as an example. They don't take some new recruit ( academy graduate even ), in stick him inside a $ 100 million piece of equipment. They establish base line requirements both physical and mental, then educational training on the equipment, and then many hours of traning on a SIMULATOR before they get a chance a the real thing.

 

The key point here is that Ahhchon has consistently demonstrated a progressive development of his baseball knowledge and abilities. He's also consistently contributed some of the more knowledgeable on the site. So back off.

 

BINGO!

 

I'm not even going to argue this because it's sooo dumb. It's called fantasy baseball for a reason. They aren't even similar. You have to do so much more as a GM in real life.

 

like i said MANY TIMES. i realize it is fantasy, but there are some very competitive leagues that you can't just join because you have the money to. there are leagues that you have to qualify to join. obviously you have to do so much more in real life. that's why they call it REAL life. a GM is a GM, but there are MANY other people who help run the sox, unlike in an advanced fantasy league where you run EVERYTHING.

 

If ahhcon said that he was planning on going to business or law school and he was planning on studying business management with a goal of becoming a GM, then that would be cool, it's good if you put in the work...but to say that you could be a GM without mentioning any intentions of actually putting in the work to have the credentials and then going on to mention your fantasy baseball background just strikes me as funny.

 

business management school? you're kidding me RIGHT? business school is a JOKE. don't get me wrong, not all business major students are tards, it's a easy major, the ones who become rich are the ones that are bright.

 

i have my business minor, i bet you didn't know that. i completed that 3 years ago while i was majoring in ECE (electrical and computer engineering). the business minor was something the engineering program runs with in order to put their students slightly ahead of the other grad classes in the US.

 

you know what strikes me as funny? the fact that you INSIST that i think the sox would hire me as a GM. I NEVER stated that AT ALL. all i stated was that IF given the opportunity i feel i could do as well given enough time.

 

How can you not see the HUGE differences between fntasy sports and real sports. You don't have to worry about payroll, you don't have to worry about personality conflicts, you dont have to worry about team chemisty. There are no minor leagues.

 

I dont feel like listing the million other differences. They're as similar as being the president of the Nysnc fan club, and being the President of the country.

 

first off, never us that comparison. the nsync club was probably pretty nuts, imagine all thos 14 year old girls.. that can't be good news.. especially with BUSH running this country, he has less brain cells than my mouse.

 

as for your first comment: what fantasy leagues do you play? yahoo? espn? please. those are kid fantasy leagues. of course you don't have to worry about payroll, minor leagues etc. a real fantasy league DOES deal with payroll, it DOES have a farm system, it DOES deal with park maintenance, attendance, beer + hotdog sales too. there are some very advanced simm and fantasy leagues out there. you might not know of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

There are many differences we can name and even some we cannot name, it doesnt just take watching 2 games a night to be a good GM, and thats a pretty bold statement to say youd be just as good if not better than Theo Epstein is. Then basically yoru saying you can win a World Series in 2 years. Im gunna stop goin at this because its kinda stupid, but basically Id say if it was so easy a bunch of internet forum guys could do it, then there'd be one in KC, Pittsburgh, and all the other bad cities.

 

you don't think anyone with a good amount of baseball knowledge can run the KC royals? what kind of crack are you smoking, how about the nationals? half the majors are run by knuckleheads. i'm not saying that it takes watching 2 games a night to become a good GM. you guys are REALLY REALLY missing the point.

 

i'm saying that you have to really give baseball your all to be a good GM. like i stated OVER AND OVER. IF i had theo's job i would be decent. IF all i had to do was eat/sleep/think baseball i would be able to educate myself to the level of decency as a red sox GM. given time i could be just as good as theo. for starters i would have NEVER given renteria that contract, i would have never given tek (even though i love him) a 4 year 40 mill contract with a NTC etc etc. i'm sure i would have made my mistakes too (before you guys point that out).

 

While I think his assertion that he would be good right now is funny to say the least, the best GMs in history never learned a lick of business or law in school. They were guys who proved that they could evaluate talent and they also played the game at a high level. These new execs these days are no better than the previous guys who were just great baseball guys.

 

BINGO!

 

a lot of GM's need that garbage to qualify, that's why A LOT of gm's SUCK. don't you guys notice all the terrible moves teams make? how is billy bean running a 1st place team with such a low payroll? because he finds talent, billy bean was one of the best at finding talent and now has some of the best scouts in baseball.

 

that's how a lot of people start, being a damn good scout and being promoted up the ladder. that's where some of the best gm's come from, being able to see talent before everyone else.

 

there is a reason why i have had liriano, weaver, kazmir, peavy, sheets (who's hurtin now) and many more young stars on my squads.. lets put it this way, i have had pedro in the SAME league since 1995 when i traded smoltz for him. granted smoltz has had a VERY fine career, pedro was the most dominat pitcher for the better half of a decade. that was BEFORE i turned 16 too :-).. of course i had a little help from my uncle ken. he was the person that actually taught me how to "watch" baseball and evaluate talent.

 

john

[ahhchon]

i just realized that i'm probably argueing with kids.... i am retarted.. but this was a nice break away from studying for my neuro anatomy pratical tomorrow morning..

 

goodnight everyone, wish that i get C or better. (anything under a C = fail)

 

john

[Mr Crunchy]

Ya the Reds tried but they could have gotten average relievers for less than they gave up and for that they get a poor grade in my mind.

 

 

i think the reds are going to make the playoffs

kearns is overated imo but lopez was a gift to washington

 

their O hasnt really missed either guy nor has their pitching gotten any better as theyve gone 3-7 over their last 10

eliz ramirez has been toast and arroyo has had his own crosses to bear with his recent struggles

harang is on and has 12wins and eric milton managed to keep st louis in check last nite but we all know at any time he can be lit up for a crooked # before the seats get warm

that cards team is a fraud

they'll probably win the central but i dont see them standing tall in the playoffs

[jacksonianmarch]

Getting back onto the topic, I do not think it is time to fire Theo. He has brought consistency to the team that was so horribly consistent in the past that they couldnt get out of the way of themselves. Firing him after one year that appears to be headed downward is something I'd expect George to do, not Henry.

 

At the same tiem, Theo does need to be held accountable for this season and he needs to lose the guise of this all-knowingly great GM guy. He is a guy who fell into a great situation in Boston and made some low risk moves that paid off huge. With those guys added to a solid infrastructure already in place, the sox were a force in 2004. But it all came back to pitching. In 2004, he could have bought up Paps, but he didnt need to. He had 5 starters who all went to the bump nearly every time and were all guys who could either win a game outright or keep you in the game until Papi decided to win it. That saved innings on the pen and guys like Leskanic and Williamson ended up being used very seldom and were strong and fresh for the playoffs. Add to that the fact that Embree and Timlin were rested and Foulke was lights out and the sox had a pitcher on the mound in every single inning of the months of august, september and October that could get the job done.

 

Fast forward to this year where the majority of the sox moves were made on defense and offense with Theo adding one young stud and a bunch of questionable pieces to the staff. On paper, at the beginning of the year, Theo had done his job, or so it seemed. He knew Wells was coming off knee problems. He knew Clement was a guy who couldn't be trusted. He knew that Schilling was a ?? at best. He knew that he had no idea what to expect from Beckett. Those very facts right there should have been enough to hang onto Arroyo. Instead, he dealt him away for an OFer, who is very serviceable for this yr, but he is absolutely not what the sox needed. If Arroyo were on this team, then you have 3 starters who can at least give you a QS 60% of the time and then you have Lester, who won't have as much pressure on him. Theo also had the chance to pick up Lidle, who has been a solid pitcher in the AL before and is an innings eater. Instead he watched them send Lidle to the hated rivals for peanuts as a throw in, ignoring the fact that the guy had success in the MLB before and he is a guy who only lasted less than 5 innings once this yr. He averaged over 6IP per game, and he would be a welcome addition to a depleted staff. Instead he did nothing and essentially doomed this team. I won't say he should be fired, but he should now have a little tarnish on that impeccable image.

[Mr Crunchy]

outstanding post jackson

the trickle down effect of losing an inning eater like arroyo is starting to kill us

never mind the record of the 5th guy

we're scheduled to play 1458 innings a year

1000 we need eaten by the starters

we're not close to being on pace and that means that kids like hansen who isnt old enough to drink yet,, end up with the ball in crucial situations,that means washed up s*** bags like the jules and rudy get the ball in crucial situations as well.

 

7 weeks left and it isnt looking good

[rician blast]

Jackson comes over the blue line, dekes the 'D'...he shoots...he scores...

 

good post. While no one will mistake Arroyo for Bob Gibson, he would have been a huge piece of the Sox staff this year and the fact that he was moved can not be overlooked.

 

Lets also not forget that he toook the hometown discount and got fkd anyway, which other players may not forget.

 

You know....come to think of it...at his age and salary and with his ability to eat innings he was EXACTLY the type of pitcher you'd think the Sox would want at the end of their rotation or in the pen come playoff time. Seems to me he was a reasonably high-VALUE player, which I think is part of the Theo/Lucchino philosophy...which makes me wonder was there something else that provided the impetus to this seemingly foolish trade?

[RedSoxRooter]

I'd trade Arroyo for Pena right now if we still had him. Everybody has to quit the bitchin and moaning. There are still 50 games to go...

[See Red]

How can you not see the HUGE differences between fntasy sports and real sports. You don't have to worry about payroll, you don't have to worry about personality conflicts, you dont have to worry about team chemisty. There are no minor leagues.

 

I dont feel like listing the million other differences. They're as similar as being the president of the Nysnc fan club, and being the President of the country.

 

Yeah, to play the differences off as something minor or anything like that is completely foolish. For instance, Isiah Thomas runs the Knicks like a fantasy team -- hasn't quite worked.

[Mr Crunchy]

I'd trade Arroyo for Pena right now if we still had him. Everybody has to quit the bitchin and moaning. There are still 50 games to go...

 

ya 50 games to go

30 of them will be started by david wells jj johnson and a suddenly beatable jon lester

 

check please

[BoSox34]

The thing I don't understand is why the hell Theo wants to play moneyball and model after teams like Atlanta and Oakland when we're the SECOND RICHEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. Oakland has nowhere near the fanbase or money that we have, forcing them to have such large value for young players and prospects. We can afford to lose a prospect or two to acquire a Roy Oswalt. Jon Lester would be lucky to ever be on Roy Oswalt's level. Don't get me wrong, I like Lester, but he's a prospect and you can just look at our recent history and see multiple highly valued prospects that failed. When you have Manny and Ortiz, two of the best power hitters in the game and both MVP candidates in their prime, and a pitching rotation that could use one more premier pitcher to put them to the next level, you have to give up a prospect or two. Schilling, Oswalt, and Beckett could have been the most dangerous pitching trio in the playoffs and you add a lights out closer and an already potent offense, come on. All I have to say is that Hansen and Lester better turn out to be what everyone is building them up to be or Theo will look like a fool in the eyes of many.

[Mr Crunchy]

lets be clear

jon lester will not be roy oswalt ever

 

between the genious's who run the a's and the braves theyve been to the post season 20xs since 1991

they won 1 title

the marlins won more

the dbax as many

 

i dont know a more overrated ******** concept than money ball and it should be renamed loser ball or

lets f*** our fans ball

 

any doubts as to why those ball parks are empty,even in the post season??

[rician blast]

I'd trade Arroyo for Pena right now if we still had him. Everybody has to quit the bitchin and moaning. There are still 50 games to go...

 

the fact that someone can say NOW that they'd still make that trade befuddles, bemuses and bewilders me.

 

I thought pitching wins championships...not 4th OFs.

[jsinger121]

the fact that someone can say NOW that they'd still make that trade befuddles, bemuses and bewilders me.

 

I thought pitching wins championships...not 4th OFs.

 

I too would make the trade and I would stand by it. Pena is not a 4th outfielder by any means. He is a better player than trot nixon and should have been ahead of nixon for most of the year. Arroyo is nothing more than a 4th or 5th starter who would be exposed alot more in the AL.

[rician blast]

I too would make the trade and I would stand by it. Pena is not a 4th outfielder by any means. He is a better player than trot nixon and should have been ahead of nixon for most of the year. Arroyo is nothing more than a 4th or 5th starter who would be exposed alot more in the AL.

 

So you'd rather see Pena in right, Trot on the bench and have Wells and Johnson manning the end of the rotation...as opposed to Arroyo, whom you pretty much know what you're gonna get with?

 

I've said it before...even if Wily Mo hits .285 with 30 HRs and 100 RBIs next year, I still classify the trade as lousy because THIS year ya hosed the fkn pitching staff and PITCHING is what wins titles.