August 1st vs. Cleveland

[RoyNHSox]

I say if the Sox can get a grand slam hit, and also knock in the bird, it counts for an extra runner.

[TheKilo]

I maintain that the Red Sox have the resources to have held on to the core building blocks of the 2004 team while planning for the future. If they kept Damon and Pedro, they would still have Lester, MDC and Hansen. Ellsbury would be ready to take over CF as Damon's contract would be running out. Instead the FO created these gaping holes by letting the foundation of 2004 walk while maintaining a very pricey payroll. Now they are in a position of being also rans this year unless they trade some of their future. This was completely unnecessary. If you are truly going to rebuild, you sell off some of your larger contracts for prospects. We haven't done that.

 

Honestly, they were all on the decline on the way out. Pedro didn't get his 4th year, he walked. Wise move, IMO. He wasn't pitching in Spetmember last year, so he wouldn't have made a difference. He's topping out at 86-88 now on his fastball. Think he'd last in the AL East?

 

Lowe had a mid 5.00 ERA in '04. He pitched great in the playoffs, sure, but he pretty much sucked for the entire season.

 

Did you forget the significant dropoff Damon had at the end of last year? And it's not like he got screwed over on the money either. He got offered $3 mil a year less. For him, I can't imagine that it made that big of a difference financially. And again, it was HIS decision to walk, not the FO's.

 

 

As opposed to the well-spent money on Clement's, Seanez', Tavarez and Wells' contracts?

 

I don't have to remind you that Clement was an All Star last year, or that Wells won 15 games and was arguably our best second half pitcher, do I?

 

Clement/Wells won a similar amount of games for less money than Pedro/Lowe did.

 

 

I will admit that I didn't really like the Tavarez or Seanez signings, but no one's perfect, and Theo's never built a good bullpen. We all have our weaknesses.

[riverside sluggers]

yea.... and what Gonzo makes it a game now!!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

Nice we would still just have 3 good starters, good chances of losses on the 4th & 5th days. Oh, Seanez & Tavarez would have to be called on more in close/late situations.

You would have the best top three pitchers of any team. Wells would be there for the 4th or 5th slot and they'd have to hang on until Wakefield comes back. The difference between a rotation with Oswalt in the 3rd slot instead of Lester would be huge. It would also help cover up many of the bullpen deficiencies, because these guys give lots of deep quality starts whereas Lester is 5 or 6 inning pitcher. It would have been advisable for Theo to pick up another reliever if he parted with MDC and Hansen.

[RoyNHSox]

Gonzo flexin his power.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Josh Willingham just hit a pinch-hit walk-off homer in Florida.

[riverside sluggers]

Loretta you bunted on first pitch and it went right to the pitcher, niice

 

Oh and kudos to Sox offense off of Sabatha, 10 Hits & 1 Walk while scoring 1 run. Hansen gave up 3 hits, Walk, 2 Runs in 1.1 inning. New acquisition Bryanm Corey gave up solo HR to his first batter. Seanez was actually one respectable out of the bullpen, by that time it was down by 5 in the 9th inning

[a700hitter]

However, a700hitter I think the front office should have worked harder to find a mid-point with teams. Brian Cashman told the Phillies the deal would happen on his terms and not theres.....how does that happen?? Why can't we do that where we tell a team...lets make a deal but we are going to rip you off

The answer might be that Cashman is a better GM.

[riverside sluggers]

You would have the best top three pitchers of any team. Wells would be there for the 4th or 5th slot and they'd have to hang on until Wakefield comes back. The difference between a rotation with Oswalt in the 3rd slot instead of Lester would be huge. It would also help cover up many of the bullpen deficiencies, because these guys give lots of deep quality starts whereas Lester is 5 or 6 inning pitcher. It would have been advisable for Theo to pick up another reliever if he parted with MDC and Hansen.

 

So in essence sacrifice even more prospects to get a relief pitcher after dealing 2 to the Astros

[riverside sluggers]

Next 2 games

 

rookies Jon Lester vs Jeremy Sowers

Beckett vs Westbrook

 

Good chances to win both of them, but I'll even take a split. This is just not a good time for the Sox to be playing, feel like I need to be holding a cross while watching them now

[a700hitter]

Honestly, they were all on the decline on the way out. Pedro didn't get his 4th year, he walked. Wise move, IMO. He wasn't pitching in September last year, so he wouldn't have made a difference. He's topping out at 86-88 now on his fastball. Think he'd last in the AL East?

And with one of the better curve ball's and changeup's in baseball, he is still a top pitcher. It is ridiculously unfair to expect Pedro to maintain his 1998-2000 level of performance, because no pitcher ever, ever, everhad three years like those--not in the entire history of the game. No, he was never going to be that Pedro, but he is still a top pitcher.

Did you forget the significant dropoff Damon had at the end of last year?

Damon had a pattern of one strong half and one weak half. Look at his stats for the year. The fact that he wore down in the second half was indicative of injuries to his shoulders and not that he is on the decline. All you need to realize that is to look at what he is doing this year for the Yankees.

I don't have to remind you that Clement was an All Star last year, or that Wells won 15 games and was arguably our best second half pitcher, do I?

And both of them are finished while Pedro is still an all star and Lowe is still a healthy competent starter. It seems that the guys we got declined precipitously while the guys that walked are still good.

[Buckeye]

Next 2 games

 

rookies Jon Lester vs Jeremy Sowers

Beckett vs Westbrook

 

Good chances to win both of them, but I'll even take a split. This is just not a good time for the Sox to be playing, feel like I need to be holding a cross while watching them now

 

Agreed. Cross, rabbit's foot, lucky charm, etc. . . . or all of the above. And the rash of injuries is a big worry, too.

[a700hitter]

So in essence sacrifice even more prospects to get a relief pitcher after dealing 2 to the Astros

Minaya got Hernandez and Perez for Nady. I don't think a top level prospect would've been required to get a Hernandez.

[riverside sluggers]

Agreed. Cross, rabbit's foot, lucky charm, etc. . . . or all of the above. And the rash of injuries is a big worry, too.

 

Since the All-Star Break

lost 3 out of 4 to A's

3 game sweep of Royals

lost 2 out of 3 to Mariners

won 2 out of 3 from A's

lost 2 out of 3 from Angels

split first 2 games vs Guardians

 

9-8 overall

[riverside sluggers]

Minaya got Hernandez and Perez for Nady. I don't think a top level prospect would've been required to get a Hernandez.

 

And Xavier Nady was having a career year, right? 14 HRs I believe and supposedly was good for them in the clutch. So Nady wasnt exactly a throw-in. All teams since past couple of offseasons having been asking for 1 thing: riches of what the Sox farm is starting to become

[Anuj09]

my main concern is our pitching rotation will be completly full over the next few years with all our sp prospects

 

oh and i think ill start wearing this on my chain

 

http://www.dancingyourbliss.com/images/ohm.jpg

 

Bringing in a little Hindu faith to the sox

[a700hitter]

And Xavier Nady was having a career year, right? 14 HRs I believe and supposedly was good for them in the clutch. So Nady wasnt exactly a throw-in. All teams since past couple of offseasons having been asking for 1 thing: riches of what the Sox farm is starting to become

I heard Nady's stats with men in scoring position. They were horrible, and he was a horrible fielder. Let's not make Nady the issue. There were other relievers that could have been targeted without giving up the farm. If you don't see that getting Oswalt who has a .680 winning % with more than 120 decisions under his belt and who has finished in the top 5 in the Cy Young voting 5 years in a row would have improved this team immensely now and in the future, then we have a fundamental disagreement. Let me remind you that Duke gave up his top two prospects that were starters for Pedro. Here, only Lester is a starter. The other two are relievers, and Hansen hasn't yet proved that he can pitch 2 innings and MDC has had major arm surgery at a very young age. Pavano and Armas were both starters and neither had yet experienced arm woes. Five years from now, we may be talking about what might have been if we got Oswalt.

[riverside sluggers]

By the way thanks for speaking for me, i said in a previous post that I was excited of the prospect of getting Oswalt

 

Also funny how you claim the Sox themselves walked away from Houston concerning Roy Oswalt

 

The Sox were willing to go pretty far by giving up one or two of their untouchables -- a list that included Jon Lester, Craig Hansen, and Manny Delcarmen -- as well as one or two everyday players. They stepped in when it appeared that the Astros' attempt to secure the Orioles' Miguel Tejada in a package for Oswalt, Willy Tavarez, and Adam Everett failed. Oswalt (8-7, 3.23 ERA), who earns $11 million, has one more year of arbitration eligibility before he becomes a free agent and perhaps gets too pricey for the Astros.

 

``There was some excitement around here for a few hours," said a Sox official. ``You add Oswalt to Curt Schilling and Josh Beckett, now that's an unbeatable rotation. There was a lot of disappointment when it fell through."

 

The rejection left the Sox asking the Astros whether Roger Clemens was available and being told by Houston owner Drayton McLane that he was off-limits.

 

Gee yea the Sox turned down Astros offer? Where does it say that? You also said that this is what the Astros asked for, actually it said in your liking that the Red Sox were willing to give up 1 or 2 of the coveted prospects.

[a700hitter]

By the way thanks for speaking for me, i said in a previous post that I was excited of the prospect of getting Oswalt

 

Also funny how you claim the Sox themselves walked away from Houston concerning Roy Oswalt

 

 

 

Gee yea the Sox turned down Astros offer? Where does it say that? You also said that this is what the Astros asked for, actually it said in your liking that the Red Sox were willing to give up 1 or 2 of the coveted prospects.

Re-read or read post # 104 and read page 2 of the article where it said that the Braves wanted the same package that everyone else was asking for MDC, Hansen and Lester. That leads me to believe that the Astros asked for the same, but the Sox refused. The Sox were offering one or two pitchers, but apparently the Stros wanted all 3 and they didn't want Crisp.

[CrespoBlows]

I guess you could call it, a wrong assumption?

 

At least we aren't the Cubs.

 

:dunno:

[riverside sluggers]

Re-read or read post # 104 and read page 2 of the article where it said that the Braves wanted the same package that everyone else was asking for MDC, Hansen and Lester. That leads me to believe that the Astros asked for the same, but the Sox refused. The Sox were offering one or two pitchers, but apparently the Stros wanted all 3 and they didn't want Crisp.

 

In the end, its just best to place the best prospects on waivers I guess. You actually think Theo was going to package Lester, Delcarmen & Hansen? Should know by now thats how it works with him

[a700hitter]

No the Braves asked for Lester, Crisp and Hansen. Manny Delcarmen wasnt included in the talks

From the article:

The Sox made a quick call to the Braves concerning Andruw Jones, but Atlanta asked for the same package of players everyone else wanted: Lester, Hansen, and Delcarmen. The Sox said no and moved on.

[riverside sluggers]

You shouldnt watch tomorrow nights game then. The "hackjob" Lester is pitching

 

edit: Seriously now, Lester has been a long coveted Theo prospect. That right there says a big reason why he hasnt been traded. He's a kid in his first go-around in the majors, you cant expect everyone to be Francisco Liriano. Have to ask yourself, where would the Sox be in the standings if Lester was still in Triple A? Id say already making a home in 2nd place. I just think its foolish to give up on a kid like this. Yes Pavano & Armas were traded for Pedro, but combine how many innings in the majors did they have in Boston... 0

--Lester has shown promise in his ability to pitch in Fenway Park, and he's a left-hander. His command has been iffy but hey just 1 walk in his last 2 starts. Above all he locks down the opponnents when there are RISP

[CrespoBlows]

From the article:

 

The Braves asked for that, not the Astros. (I'm pretty sure the Astros would want a bat back.)

[a700hitter]

In the end, its just best to place the best prospects on waivers I guess. You actually think Theo was going to package Lester, Delcarmen & Hansen? Should know by now thats how it works with him

3 prospects only 1 of which is a starter for a stud all-star major league starter at age 27 is a steal. We gave up the top prospect in the system plus Annibel Sanchez for a much less accomplished pitcher in Beckett. Relievers are just not that valuable, and we've got papelbon to hold down the closer role and we still have Timlin for the 8th. I know you disagree, but I will be reminding all of you Theo fanboys about this as these kid pitchers fall short of stardom one by one.

[a700hitter]

The Braves asked for that, not the Astros. (I'm pretty sure the Astros would want a bat back.)

Crisp is a bat? And if they asked for Crisp and the article says we offered Crisp, then why don't we have Oswalt today?

[TheKilo]

Re-read or read post # 104 and read page 2 of the article where it said that the Braves wanted the same package that everyone else was asking for MDC, Hansen and Lester. That leads me to believe that the Astros asked for the same, but the Sox refused. The Sox were offering one or two pitchers, but apparently the Stros wanted all 3 and they didn't want Crisp.

 

 

So, basically you want to open two holes after you plug one. I agree, getting Oswalt would have been a coup, but then we'd be left of a bullpen of the EZ brothers, Timlin, and JVB. Not the strongest of pens. You are also not addressing the 4th and 5th starter issues as you repla ce your #3 with Oswalt. So we're looking at 2.5 studs in the rotation (depending on what Beckett gives you), white flag 4th and 5th starters, and a schmuck pen. I think you can make the case we're better off not having made that move.

 

 

I'd love to have Oswalt on the team, though, and for any combo of two or three porspects not named Lester.

Crisp is a bat? And if they asked for Crisp and the article says we offered Crisp, then why don't we have Oswalt today?

 

 

I really doubt they'd want Crisp. They'd be more likely to ask for Pena.

[CrespoBlows]

Crisp is a bat? And if they asked for Crisp and the article says we offered Crisp, then why don't we have Oswalt today?

 

The article says the BRAVES asked for Crisp. No where does it say that the Astros asked for it.

 

Besides, this trade makes us better? The rotation still has holes, CF becomes a hole, and another hole in the bullpen.

 

Do you ever think of short term/long term benefits?

[riverside sluggers]

Crisp is a bat? And if they asked for Crisp and the article says we offered Crisp, then why don't we have Oswalt today?

 

So...

Boston- Roy Oswalt

Houston- Jon Lester, Craig Hansen, Manny Delcarmen, Coco Crisp

[TheKilo]

So...

Boston- Roy Oswalt

Houston- Jon Lester, Craig Hansen, Manny Delcarmen, Coco Crisp

 

 

Hey, it's pretty much the same deal for Smoltz, only with Coco ( a proven MLB talent) instead of Murphy (a minor leaguer)!

 

Makes perfect sense!! :thumbdown