I still cant stand....

[NEM]

.Tavarez. Get rid of that POS.

[MC Hammer]

always try and look at the brightside. At least he's not Seanez.

[jsinger121]

why blame tavarez when he has been great lately. if you want to blame anyone blame the red sox offense that couldn't score any runs when given what 10 or 11 walks.

[a700hitter]

why blame tavarez when he has been great lately. if you want to blame anyone blame the red sox offense that couldn't score any runs when given what 10 or 11 walks.

The bullpen went 6 innings giving up only 2 runs. You can't expect better than that. The offense took the night off.

[BoSox21]

they left like what? 14 on base through 9? you can't do that and expect to win. Brain cramps by Loretta and Harris are more to blame for last night than Tavarez

[Mr Crunchy]

bad loss

another good effort from our young lefty but the O has been dormant

need a spark to pick things up

maybe a brawl,maybe zito throws inside to pappi tonite and the benches clear

theyve looked flat since the end of interleague play

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

bad loss

another good effort from our young lefty but the O has been dormant

need a spark to pick things up

maybe a brawl,maybe zito throws inside to pappi tonite and the benches clear

theyve looked flat since the end of interleague play

 

not papi cause he would get suspended... but im with you on the idea!

[MC Hammer]

why blame tavarez when he has been great lately. if you want to blame anyone blame the red sox offense that couldn't score any runs when given what 10 or 11 walks.

or how about we just blame the Red Sox.

 

I'm not sure if you guys ever found out or not, but ... *psssst* baseball is a team sport.

[NEM]

Tavarez coudlnt pitch in A baseball. He is gonna be the ruination of this team if they dont dump the POS now.

[redsox71490]

He's terrible. They should release him. He's old and has no trade value.

[riverside sluggers]

:thumbsup:

 

Well this is something that just about never happens, Gordon Edes in his weekly email bag had answered my question

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/askedes/07_21_06/?page=5

[RavenOfProphecy]

You're right in that Tavarez and Seanez aren't great players, but I think both have been okay for our club this season. Seanez is 2-1 with a 4.34 ERA (although you're right in that he's not getting the losses because he's basically our long reliever and is never in a position to lose), but we're desperate for relievers and he's not too bad. On the bright side, if we can't trade him for anyone, he's cheap at $1,900,000 and he only has a one-year deal. Right-handed hitters are only batting .261 off of him, so we just need to bring him in against those rather than both lefties and righties.

 

He's only allowed 1 ER in the last 7.1 innings pitched (albeit with two earned in no innings the game before.) Seanez also has more strikeouts (39) than innings pitched (37.1), so it's not like he's the equivalent of Mike Remlinger or Keith Foulke last year. By the way, opponents are batting at just .275 against him at home, .002 worse than on the road (not a big deal, I know.) Now for the thing that worries me. According to the 2006 Baseball Prospectus, he only got a ground ball on 37% of the balls he put in play last year, which isn't good when we have a great fielding infield, and our outfield is nothing to write home about.

 

Now, for Tavarez, I will not be nearly as defensive. The main problem with him is that we put him in where he's in a position to lose (basically, tie game in the eleventh inning), and he's not as good as most of the other relievers in the pen (Hansen, Delcarmen, Timlin, Papelbon, Seanez.) Also, last year, he averaged more hits than innings, same with this year. He's also walked 24 batters with just 32 strikeouts, so his K/BB ratio is not too good. He's also completely unreliable when you need a quick inning, which means he could shut the other team down (0 ER in 11.1 innings over five of his last ten games) or get shelled (9 ER over 7.0 innings over the other five), and this is exactly why I don't believe that they should be using him this late, he's completely inconsistent.

 

It's disturbing that we're 0-5 in the last five games he's pitched for us (although, to his defense, he pitched two shutouts in the games and we still lost, including going 4.0 against the White Sox while allowing just one hit and one walk), and perhaps even more disturbing that Theo Epstein though enough of Julian to give him a multi-year deal at the age of 33. He's kept lefties to a .253 average, but righties are hitting .322 against him, and Javier Lopez is a younger, cheaper, and some might say better one-out lefty for us, because of the whole throws lefty thing.

 

Did I mention that opponents are batting .358 against him (higher than Ted Williams' career BA, I believe) at Fenway Park, but .219 against him on the road (better than Mariano Rivera?) So, Tavarez could stick around and just pitch to clusters of lefties in away games and be great, which isn't getting the most for our money, or we could trade him for someone a bit more consistent and cheaper, and not go wrong. I still think Colorado makes the most sense, because Tavarez is a good sinkerball pitcher (over the past three years, 2003-2005, of the balls he's put in play, 67%, 53%, and 52% have been on the ground.) We might be able to get Ray King for him, but he's, in my opinion, even worse (historically, he's got a 1.95 ERA pre-All Star and 4.72 post, which means he's gonna be bad this second half, plus he gets pounded against righties.) So that's just my two cents.

[riverside sluggers]

You're right in that Tavarez and Seanez aren't great players, but I think both have been okay for our club this season. Seanez is 2-1 with a 4.34 ERA (although you're right in that he's not getting the losses because he's basically our long reliever and is never in a position to lose), but we're desperate for relievers and he's not too bad. On the bright side, if we can't trade him for anyone, he's cheap at $1,900,000 and he only has a one-year deal. Right-handed hitters are only batting .261 off of him, so we just need to bring him in against those rather than both lefties and righties.

 

He's only allowed 1 ER in the last 7.1 innings pitched (albeit with two earned in no innings the game before.) Seanez also has more strikeouts (39) than innings pitched (37.1), so it's not like he's the equivalent of Mike Remlinger or Keith Foulke last year. By the way, opponents are batting at just .275 against him at home, .002 worse than on the road (not a big deal, I know.) Now for the thing that worries me. According to the 2006 Baseball Prospectus, he only got a ground ball on 37% of the balls he put in play last year, which isn't good when we have a great fielding infield, and our outfield is nothing to write home about.

 

Seanez's ERA is deceiving as he has been bad in the clutch. He has let 11 of 16 inherited runners to score. Also has a high % of allowing the first batter he faces to get on base. His salary is $2 million, Sox should just cut their losses now. There are better options in the minors than him

[RavenOfProphecy]

Seanez's ERA is deceiving as he has been bad in the clutch. He has let 11 of 16 inherited runners to score. Also has a high % of allowing the first batter he faces to get on base. His salary is $2 million, Sox should just cut their losses now. There are better options in the minors than him

 

I liked the 11 of 16 stat. Nice job with that. I am in agreement that we should try to find another option, but it's not worth just cutting him, in my opinion. If we could trade him for a minor leaguer with just a tad of upside and some stuff, it would be worth it.

[SCM33]

I liked the 11 of 16 stat. Nice job with that. I am in agreement that we should try to find another option, but it's not worth just cutting him, in my opinion. If we could trade him for a minor leaguer with just a tad of upside and some stuff, it would be worth it.

 

 

Ive said it all along with Seanez. I really dont think hes been as bad as everyone else thinks. At this point anyway hes a 5th or 6th option. They could be doing a lot worse. As a 5th or 6th option out of a bullpen, Id say hes done fine. Tell me what team has a better 5th or 6th option coming out of the pen. Our pen is pretty solid, its not like we ever even need to use an option so low on the ladder. I still say Tavarez is a bigger disappointment, and I scratch my head wondering why a good guy like Seanez, who hasnt been awful all year.... takes more crap than the crying, whining, temper tantrum throwing punk Tavarez who was expected to pitch some solid innings for us like he has done for the majority of his career. Reminds me exactly of the situation we had with Ramiro Mendoza. I really think we have bigger things to worry about besides the #5 option coming out of the bullpen with a 4.23 ERA, 40 K's in 38 Innings and a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio.

[riverside sluggers]

Originally Posted by Sweet Chin Music 33: Tell me what team has a better 5th or 6th option coming out of the pen.

 

Its alright if youre trying to defend him

 

But honestly saying that he's the best #5 man out of the bullpen is going out there. His ERA is deceiving as he has the highest % of baseball of allowing his first batter to reach, 11 of 16 inherited runners to score, his inabilityn like Tavarez to pitch with a cool head in tight situations. I got a list and dont mind sharing the Seanez gaffes of 06

[bsox04]

I think we should stink to the young guys. i love that we are sooooo young in the pen. we have a great future with all of those young guys. i'm from jersey and i watched hansen throw at seaton hall he's great. he will be here for a long time along with PAP and company.

 

tony

[a700hitter]

I really think we have bigger things to worry about besides the #5 option coming out of the bullpen with a 4.23 ERA, 40 K's in 38 Innings and a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio.

This is true. However, they signed Seanez to be a 7th inning guy and not a 5th option out of the pen. He flopped in that role and the development of the kiddie corps. has made it unnecessary to use him in that role.

[SCM33]

Its alright if youre trying to defend him

 

But honestly saying that he's the best #5 man out of the bullpen is going out there. His ERA is deceiving as he has the highest % of baseball of allowing his first batter to reach, 11 of 16 inherited runners to score, his inabilityn like Tavarez to pitch with a cool head in tight situations. I got a list and dont mind sharing the Seanez gaffes of 06

 

I worded it awkward my bad. What I was trying to say is that as a #5 option out of the pen, hes not a terrible option to have. On another team he is probably a #3 type option. We have a strong bullpen, so whats it matter what he really does? Hes there just to eat up garbage innings. I know this was not the plan initially when we signed him, but I still dont think he deserves the crap hes gets. I dont think he is an unlikeable guy (same cant be said for Tavarez). He battles....and like I said before, there must be a reason he has stuck around for so long, because the Sox wouldnt be eating much at this point to cut him unlike Tavarez whos situation is much like Mendoza's was where we are forced to deal with a crappy contract for a few years.

 

This is true. However, they signed Seanez to be a 7th inning guy and not a 5th option out of the pen. He flopped in that role and the development of the kiddie corps. has made it unnecessary to use him in that role.

 

I totally understand that, and agree with you, but I think Seanez has been treated pretty unfairly not only in general, but especially in this forum. Its not like we are in third place because we are struggling in the bullpen because Tavarez and Seanez didnt do what they were supposed to. We are in first place, these two moves didnt work out.....for the best if I may add and the young guns are finding the niches.

 

Maybe I am just trying to find a bright spot in a bad situation, but I cant complain about how things have unfolded in the BP, I guess as fans we always have to point the finger at somebody for not going 162-0.

[a700hitter]

I totally understand that, and agree with you, but I think Seanez has been treated pretty unfairly not only in general, but especially in this forum.

Don't feel too bad for him. He's overpaid, and I am fairly certain he doesn't care what we think. All the players really care about is the 1st and 15th of the month. The only player who has been honest enough to admit that is Foulke.