Instant Replay?

[TheRivernator]

Guys, I have long been an advocate of the purist view of baseball, but the continuing downward trend of these umpires is starting to change my tune. I know the sox got jobbed last night on one of their calls, I saw the replay, but I forgot what it was. Also, last night the yankees got jobbed twice and it cost us the game. In the 4th inning, Mora hit a 2 run infield single, but replay showed he was out, and it was not even really bang bang. The ump took a bad angle, again, and got the call wrong. And the final pitch of the game was about 4 inches outside and was called strike 3. If that had been a ball, Matsui would have walked and we would have scored the tying run as the sacks were packed at the time. I have never been one to really complain about the umps, but the continued pathetic nature of their calls has caused me to reconsider my view on tinstant replay. While I hated the call on Matsui, I consider the strike zone a sacred forum of baseball and hence I would not have replay of strikes and balls, but what I would have is 2 replays a game (like football), when any base call or fair/foul/HR/catch ruling can be overturned and it is under the discretion of the manager to use his red flags. Certainly, it would ruin the purity of the game to some point, but after a while, you just want the calls made correctly and the putrid nature of these umpires lately has led me to change my mind. Does anyone else feel the same way?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I don't think so...it's a part of baseball. Some calls go your way and others go against you.

 

The only thing I think they should use it on is home runs.

[TheRivernator]

I don't think so...it's a part of baseball. Some calls go your way and others go against you.

 

The only thing I think they should use it on is home runs.

 

The reason I was never a replay fan before was because the strike zone was usually the only pathetic calls made during the game, but the increasing terrible call rate on the bases is inexcuseable. You have to use it on the bases if you are going to use it, because a base call is not a feel thing like a strike zone is, a base call is a black or white call...

[jsinger121]

Replay for balls and stirkes won't work because it will hurt the nature of the game. Bad calls happen to everyone. you just have to live it because it is part of baseball and always been part of baseball

[TheRivernator]

Replay for balls and stirkes won't work because it will hurt the nature of the game. Bad calls happen to everyone. you just have to live it because it is part of baseball and always been part of baseball

 

I hear ya. That is how I used to approach it, but they continue to get worse and that is alarming. The NFL changed back because their officials got worse and they had to cave under the pressure. If these umps get any worse, I expect the same thing....

[redsoxrules]

even if they had instant replay they wouldnt use it towards balls or strike , they would use it on a homerun or a close play at first base ,somebody steals second ,so on .,,,

[TheRivernator]

even if they had instant replay they wouldnt use it towards balls or strike , they would use it on a homerun or a close play at first base ,somebody steals second ,so on .,,,

 

that is what i am advocating it for....

[redsoxrules]

and if they would go for it , it should just be used in the playoffs

[redoctober]

Guys, I have long been an advocate of the purist view of baseball, but the continuing downward trend of these umpires is starting to change my tune. I know the sox got jobbed last night on one of their calls, I saw the replay, but I forgot what it was. Also, last night the yankees got jobbed twice and it cost us the game. In the 4th inning, Mora hit a 2 run infield single, but replay showed he was out, and it was not even really bang bang. The ump took a bad angle, again, and got the call wrong. And the final pitch of the game was about 4 inches outside and was called strike 3. If that had been a ball, Matsui would have walked and we would have scored the tying run as the sacks were packed at the time. I have never been one to really complain about the umps, but the continued pathetic nature of their calls has caused me to reconsider my view on tinstant replay. While I hated the call on Matsui, I consider the strike zone a sacred forum of baseball and hence I would not have replay of strikes and balls, but what I would have is 2 replays a game (like football), when any base call or fair/foul/HR/catch ruling can be overturned and it is under the discretion of the manager to use his red flags. Certainly, it would ruin the purity of the game to some point, but after a while, you just want the calls made correctly and the putrid nature of these umpires lately has led me to change my mind. Does anyone else feel the same way?

 

 

No, no, and NO. Instant Replay would ruin the purity of the game of baseball. Other sports can use it because they had no purity to begin with. How about we stop using microscopic strike zones, and call pitches a little above the belly a strike? Thats the first thing Major League Baseball should do, is reinforce the rulebook strike zone. As far as base calling is concerned, more often than not the umpires will make the correct call on a bang bang play. Mistakes will happen though, but thats the human aspect of the game. Technology has gotten a little over our heads these days, before you know it people will be calling for machines to replace the players.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Technology has gotten a little over our heads these days, before you know it people will be calling for machines to replace the players.

 

I think they're called video games.

[TheRivernator]

No, no, and NO. Instant Replay would ruin the purity of the game of baseball. Other sports can use it because they had no purity to begin with. How about we stop using microscopic strike zones, and call pitches a little above the belly a strike? Thats the first thing Major League Baseball should do, is reinforce the rulebook strike zone. As far as base calling is concerned, more often than not the umpires will make the correct call on a bang bang play. Mistakes will happen though, but thats the human aspect of the game. Technology has gotten a little over our heads these days, before you know it people will be calling for machines to replace the players.

 

they already tried enforcing the strike zone and it backfired. Quest tech was that brain child and what it did was eliminate the corners as umps were too scared to call them. Dont fiddle with the strike zone, but check the consistency of umpires. If a guy gives 3 inches on the outside corner of the zone, then so be it, but if he gives it one pitch and not the next, that is a problem. As far as bang bang plays, you'd be surprised as to how many they get wrong, but the plays that arent bang bang are inexcuseable....

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Guys, I have long been an advocate of the purist view of baseball, but the continuing downward trend of these umpires is starting to change my tune. I know the sox got jobbed last night on one of their calls, I saw the replay, but I forgot what it was. Also, last night the yankees got jobbed twice and it cost us the game. In the 4th inning, Mora hit a 2 run infield single, but replay showed he was out, and it was not even really bang bang. The ump took a bad angle, again, and got the call wrong. And the final pitch of the game was about 4 inches outside and was called strike 3. If that had been a ball, Matsui would have walked and we would have scored the tying run as the sacks were packed at the time. I have never been one to really complain about the umps, but the continued pathetic nature of their calls has caused me to reconsider my view on tinstant replay. While I hated the call on Matsui, I consider the strike zone a sacred forum of baseball and hence I would not have replay of strikes and balls, but what I would have is 2 replays a game (like football), when any base call or fair/foul/HR/catch ruling can be overturned and it is under the discretion of the manager to use his red flags. Certainly, it would ruin the purity of the game to some point, but after a while, you just want the calls made correctly and the putrid nature of these umpires lately has led me to change my mind. Does anyone else feel the same way?

 

My thought is this. Until recently, the umpire's call stood as made, unless overuled by the head umpire. However, recently there has been a trend of several or all umpires discussing a controversial call. How much more of a stretch would it be for the Head umpire to have the replay as a tool available to settle a questionable call ? Obviously, not for balls or strikes, but for those plays where the umpire didn't have a good angle. When those umpires are discussing a call I'm sure at times they're talking about who actually saw the play and what they actually saw, and at times it's not totally clear. Unfortunately, a call right or wrong must be made. Replay would allow the umps to have another chance to correct a call with better data.

For you "purists", please don't tell me about it would ruin the game. Baseball is about tradition, statistics, evolution, and entertainment. How many rules have been changed over the years ? The argument about technology changing the game is bull. Didn't the Cubs just play day games ? Radio was the way to follow a game. Instant replay on television and at the park. Radar guns, how fast is this guy pitching, is he tiring ? Computers for saber stats ? Rules have also been changed. How about the DH, height of the pitchers mound, the baseball, etc. Marketing has been changed. Double headers have been eliminated, unless caused by rain outs. Week day games are ( except for get-aways ). Day games are now for Sat. & Sun. with the cavort of TBD. This has been done for broadcasting, not for the fan convenience. Speaking of which, most people have pay money to a service if they want to watch their team. These are just a few of the many ways baseball has evolved to what it is today. Like it or not, this trend will continue and at some point in time replay will become part of it.

[TheRivernator]

My thought is this. Until recently, the umpire's call stood as made, unless overuled by the head umpire. However, recently there has been a trend of several or all umpires discussing a controversial call. How much more of a stretch would it be for the Head umpire to have the replay as a tool available to settle a questionable call ? Obviously, not for balls or strikes, but for those plays where the umpire didn't have a good angle. When those umpires are discussing a call I'm sure at times they're talking about who actually saw the play and what they actually saw, and at times it's not totally clear. Unfortunately, a call right or wrong must be made. Replay would allow the umps to have another chance to correct a call with better data.

For you "purists", please don't tell me about it would ruin the game. Baseball is about tradition, statistics, evolution, and entertainment. How many rules have been changed over the years ? The argument about technology changing the game is bull. Didn't the Cubs just play day games ? Radio was the way to follow a game. Instant replay on television and at the park. Radar guns, how fast is this guy pitching, is he tiring ? Computers for saber stats ? Rules have also been changed. How about the DH, height of the pitchers mound, the baseball, etc. Marketing has been changed. Double headers have been eliminated, unless caused by rain outs. Week day games are ( except for get-aways ). Day games are now for Sat. & Sun. with the cavort of TBD. This has been done for broadcasting, not for the fan convenience. Speaking of which, most people have pay money to a service if they want to watch their team. These are just a few of the many ways baseball has evolved to what it is today. Like it or not, this trend will continue and at some point in time replay will become part of it.

 

stellar quote...

[redoctober]

My thought is this. Until recently, the umpire's call stood as made, unless overuled by the head umpire. However, recently there has been a trend of several or all umpires discussing a controversial call. How much more of a stretch would it be for the Head umpire to have the replay as a tool available to settle a questionable call ? Obviously, not for balls or strikes, but for those plays where the umpire didn't have a good angle. When those umpires are discussing a call I'm sure at times they're talking about who actually saw the play and what they actually saw, and at times it's not totally clear. Unfortunately, a call right or wrong must be made. Replay would allow the umps to have another chance to correct a call with better data.

For you "purists", please don't tell me about it would ruin the game. Baseball is about tradition, statistics, evolution, and entertainment. How many rules have been changed over the years ? The argument about technology changing the game is bull. Didn't the Cubs just play day games ? Radio was the way to follow a game. Instant replay on television and at the park. Radar guns, how fast is this guy pitching, is he tiring ? Computers for saber stats ? Rules have also been changed. How about the DH, height of the pitchers mound, the baseball, etc. Marketing has been changed. Double headers have been eliminated, unless caused by rain outs. Week day games are ( except for get-aways ). Day games are now for Sat. & Sun. with the cavort of TBD. This has been done for broadcasting, not for the fan convenience. Speaking of which, most people have pay money to a service if they want to watch their team. These are just a few of the many ways baseball has evolved to what it is today. Like it or not, this trend will continue and at some point in time replay will become part of it.

 

 

Most of those changes were negative changes such as no more scheduled doubleheaders, lowering the pitchers mound, and changing the baseball. Sabermetrics was a good change in that it helped general managers make wiser roster movements. Lights for night games? Good change. Baseball on TV? Thats ok too, although the radio broadcasts are so much better. Anyways, the good changes didn't distort what was going on the field. It didn't affect the way the actual game was played. Instant Replay however will, and thats why me and others can make the argument that it will destroy the integrity of the game. As the infamous saying goes "just because theres a technological breakthrough doesn't mean it's always the next best thing."

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Most of those changes were negative changes such as no more scheduled doubleheaders, lowering the pitchers mound, and changing the baseball. Sabermetrics was a good change in that it helped general managers make wiser roster movements. Lights for night games? Good change. Baseball on TV? Thats ok too, although the radio broadcasts are so much better. Anyways, the good changes didn't distort what was going on the field. It didn't affect the way the actual game was played. Instant Replay however will, and thats why me and others can make the argument that it will destroy the integrity of the game. As the infamous saying goes "just because theres a technological breakthrough doesn't mean it's always the next best thing."

I didn't say they were all good, I was just pointing out that changes will occur.

[hoefdj18]

I debated this with myself a few times, but have always shrugged off the potential of using instant replay because I feel it isn't necessary. Baseball has come this far without it, it can continue with out it. As for the increase in bad calls, it's just part of the game. Sometimes the calls go your way and sometimes they don't. Nature of the beast my friend. But if they were to start using instant replay, it should only be used in the playoffs (*cough, cough, A.J. Perzinski, cough*).

[Sox Fan on Cape]

I debated this with myself a few times, but have always shrugged off the potential of using instant replay because I feel it isn't necessary. Baseball has come this far without it, it can continue with out it. As for the increase in bad calls, it's just part of the game. Sometimes the calls go your way and sometimes they don't. Nature of the beast my friend. But if they were to start using instant replay, it should only be used in the playoffs (*cough, cough, A.J. Perzinski, cough*).

 

One thing is for certain, they never use it in the playoffs, unless it's been tried in the regular season first.

[BronxBomber61]

I think at the end of the season all managers should vote on bad umps. If you get 80% or more think you stink.....bye bye!

[JethroTull]

Great thread, folks. Some grist for the mill........Having umped for about 10 years (once upon a time), the single most important aspect was getting the call exactly right, period. We all know and love to talk baseball; it is what keeps the game fresh in our hearts. Umpires are the same way. Umps love to talk baseball. Sooner or later, the talk leads to the integrity of the game. With the steroid mess blowing up, calls for baseball tradition finds fans split on this replay business. Just ask yourself this.......what is the real harm in adding modern technology to get the call right? Remembering the recently blown tag call on Varitek headed to 1st the other night,(help me out on this one.....against Tampa, maybe?), just picture a playoff or World Series contest turning on such a blatant mistake. I agree that balls & strikes are sacrosanct. But a missed tag, a dropped ball, a tag with the glove while the ball is in the bare hand, a ball hitting(or just missing) the fair line, a questionable home run, posession of the ball on a DP; tangible calls such as these deserve to be called correctly. What difference does it really make if the umps converge to get a call right, or the head ump reviews video a few feet from his position? I know, I know........it's never been done before. At one time, the DH wasn't "done before." Also, interleague play wasn't..."done before".....you get the idea. It seems a natural evolution. Since games weren't actually televised before the 50's, it COULDN'T have been done before anyways. And didn't all games take place during daylight hours, once upon a time? Numbers weren't on uniforms originally, never mind names. Hey, I love baseball as much as anyone, and have been around the game for over 40 years. But I am sorry to say, the integrity boat sailed quite some time ago. There is a reason untold thousands upon thousands never hit 62 homers a year, never mind reaching the 70's. Would replay ruin the integrity of the game? Naaaahhhhh. If anything, it will help restore it. As a longtime fan, I'd rather lose by the correct call than win it on a cheat. Winning a game on a blatantly blown call may not be cheating, but it puts you in the company of those that would, kinda like those that fudge their golf scores. Where's the integrity in that?

[redoctober]

Great thread, folks. Some grist for the mill........Having umped for about 10 years (once upon a time), the single most important aspect was getting the call exactly right, period. We all know and love to talk baseball; it is what keeps the game fresh in our hearts. Umpires are the same way. Umps love to talk baseball. Sooner or later, the talk leads to the integrity of the game. With the steroid mess blowing up, calls for baseball tradition finds fans split on this replay business. Just ask yourself this.......what is the real harm in adding modern technology to get the call right? Remembering the recently blown tag call on Varitek headed to 1st the other night,(help me out on this one.....against Tampa, maybe?), just picture a playoff or World Series contest turning on such a blatant mistake. I agree that balls & strikes are sacrosanct. But a missed tag, a dropped ball, a tag with the glove while the ball is in the bare hand, a ball hitting(or just missing) the fair line, a questionable home run, posession of the ball on a DP; tangible calls such as these deserve to be called correctly. What difference does it really make if the umps converge to get a call right, or the head ump reviews video a few feet from his position? I know, I know........it's never been done before. At one time, the DH wasn't "done before." Also, interleague play wasn't..."done before".....you get the idea. It seems a natural evolution. Since games weren't actually televised before the 50's, it COULDN'T have been done before anyways. And didn't all games take place during daylight hours, once upon a time? Numbers weren't on uniforms originally, never mind names. Hey, I love baseball as much as anyone, and have been around the game for over 40 years. But I am sorry to say, the integrity boat sailed quite some time ago. There is a reason untold thousands upon thousands never hit 62 homers a year, never mind reaching the 70's. Would replay ruin the integrity of the game? Naaaahhhhh. If anything, it will help restore it. As a longtime fan, I'd rather lose by the correct call than win it on a cheat. Winning a game on a blatantly blown call may not be cheating, but it puts you in the company of those that would, kinda like those that fudge their golf scores. Where's the integrity in that?

 

Again, just because theres been change doesn't mean it was a good change. Interleague play? Not a good change. How does putting numbers or names on a uniform affect the actual game itself? And what about night games, how did playing at night affect the actual game? And why is steroids used as a valid justification for instant replay? You lost me there.

[hoefdj18]

i agree in the sense that it seems that the "natural evolution" of the game leans towards using instant replay. but do i personally want to see it used? no, not really.

[JethroTull]

Again, just because theres been change doesn't mean it was a good change. Interleague play? Not a good change. How does putting numbers or names on a uniform affect the actual game itself? And what about night games, how did playing at night affect the actual game? And why is steroids used as a valid justification for instant replay? You lost me there.

 

Good or bad,....who knows? My post summed up various points in the thread. Some reasons for not using replay were because it has never been done, and that it would damage the integrity of the game. That the changes made are seen as good or bad is irrelevent to the point being discussed. The point is, baseball changes all the time. Adding video review won't change the way the game is played at all, if done properly. A monitor at the top corner of the home dugout will give the home plate ump a clear view of any questionable call. This won't take any more time than a trip to the mound.(As an added note, league rules could be amended to display the defining video on the field video screen, giving fans in attendance the same view of the call the umps used. If there is no clear view available, the ruling on the field stands.)

 

As for the steroids slant, how can replay been seen as damaging the integrity of a game already tainted by players cheating and owners turning a blind eye? As I pointed out earlier, getting the call exactly right is the best thing baseball can do towards restoring integrity to baseball. And for the record, I don't like the DH, but it is here to stay. Numbers/names on uniforms, and the advent of night baseball certainly changed baseball from a marketing standpoint, but that is beside the point. And all things considered, interleague play gives fans a chance to see the greats from the "other league" in person. The point of this thread remains; would replay positively affect the game, and is it time to impliment replay. I say yes to both. Modern technology will improve the product. How can getting the call exactly right be anything but good? Once some terrible calls are overturned, friends and foes alike will understand the value of instant replay. In short, video replay will render egotistical umpires obsolete.

[TheRivernator]

Great thread, folks. Some grist for the mill........Having umped for about 10 years (once upon a time), the single most important aspect was getting the call exactly right, period. We all know and love to talk baseball; it is what keeps the game fresh in our hearts. Umpires are the same way. Umps love to talk baseball. Sooner or later, the talk leads to the integrity of the game. With the steroid mess blowing up, calls for baseball tradition finds fans split on this replay business. Just ask yourself this.......what is the real harm in adding modern technology to get the call right? Remembering the recently blown tag call on Varitek headed to 1st the other night,(help me out on this one.....against Tampa, maybe?), just picture a playoff or World Series contest turning on such a blatant mistake. I agree that balls & strikes are sacrosanct. But a missed tag, a dropped ball, a tag with the glove while the ball is in the bare hand, a ball hitting(or just missing) the fair line, a questionable home run, posession of the ball on a DP; tangible calls such as these deserve to be called correctly. What difference does it really make if the umps converge to get a call right, or the head ump reviews video a few feet from his position? I know, I know........it's never been done before. At one time, the DH wasn't "done before." Also, interleague play wasn't..."done before".....you get the idea. It seems a natural evolution. Since games weren't actually televised before the 50's, it COULDN'T have been done before anyways. And didn't all games take place during daylight hours, once upon a time? Numbers weren't on uniforms originally, never mind names. Hey, I love baseball as much as anyone, and have been around the game for over 40 years. But I am sorry to say, the integrity boat sailed quite some time ago. There is a reason untold thousands upon thousands never hit 62 homers a year, never mind reaching the 70's. Would replay ruin the integrity of the game? Naaaahhhhh. If anything, it will help restore it. As a longtime fan, I'd rather lose by the correct call than win it on a cheat. Winning a game on a blatantly blown call may not be cheating, but it puts you in the company of those that would, kinda like those that fudge their golf scores. Where's the integrity in that?

 

man, that was a great post and god insight from a former ump....

[TheRivernator]

seriously, there is nothing worse than getting screwed on a call and having it cost you a game. That has happened twice thus far in 16 games and if the terrible umping continues, we are going to have to battle 13 instead of 9....

[JethroTull]

man, that was a great post and god insight from a former ump....

 

Thanks, Rivernator. I'm going to guess that 'god' was a typo for good. Having said that, I think it's a better quote with the 'god' reference, because most umps have a god complex, and replay will put an end to that ! Imagine umps horning in on Barry Bonds' domain?

[yankeessuck013]

I think Al Leiter made a good point one night when he talked about the camera work being much better now and that b/c of that we get to see more blown calls.

 

I somewhat buy that but there has been more of a focus on bad calls in the last couple years to.

 

I'm torn on the issue, I really do not want to see review on the strike zone b/c you really handicap what a pitcher can do

 

I would like to see review on foul pole HR's and give the Managers 2 challenge plays that involve close plays at the plate and on the bases

[empirestrikesback26]

It's needed for all places where something can be called wrong except balls and strikes. That's more of an opinion of the ump. Fair or foul homers and calls at the plate on the bases are either right or wrong and there needs to be a second look at the call. The argument against it is it ruins the purity of the game. ********, if Doubleday knew there would be a time when people can instantly review the call of an ump, he would have that in the rulebook, if he has any bit of common sense. Also it would legnthen the time of the game, real baseball fans don't care if it takes another 5-10 minutes if the call is right.

 

I'm not satisfied with just hearing it's part of the game. It doesn't need to be.

[Dana Kiecker]

Im all for it, but like ESB26 says it should be a challenge type of call.

 

I would also include hit batsmen in that ring of calls.

 

I think balls and strikes are what they are. Untill they install a box of pudding behind the plate... ( Andleman)

[YazYaz04]

I am a purist, so no replays for me. Its always been a part of the game, bad calls. It sucks when they go against ya, but if everything become all technology oriented baseball will lose its "charm"

[67Bleachers]

...what I would have is 2 replays a game (like football), when any base call or fair/foul/HR/catch ruling can be overturned and it is under the discretion of the manager to use his red flags.../QUOTE]

 

I like the idea, Rivernator; however, I disagree with "Empire" in that its OK if it makes the game longer.

 

NFL coaches lose a time-out if they throw the red flag and get it wrong.

 

In the interest of time, and to assure the seriousness of a manager's challenge AND if the challenge is incorrect, the team takes an additional out. So if an ump call's Youk safe at 1B and J. Torre disputes it and is wrong on the replay, his team starts their next half-inning with an automatic one out count.

 

Now, if A-Rod is out at 1b (wearing his distinctive handbag), and Torre disputes it and is wrong, (of course), then not only is Ms. A-Rod out but his team takes an additional out for an incorrect replay challenge, AND, if in this case Ms. A-Rod made the 3rd out on the ump's good call, then the Skankees take an additional out at the start of their NEXT half-inning.

 

Umpires should have some accountability on this and they want to get it right but Commander Bud would have a tough time getting this through on their next labor agreement.