Wily Mo revisited

[seabeachfred]

700, I have always been a Nixon fan as you could guess from reading my previous posts. I think an incentive laden contract of two years could bring him back to the Red Sox. Look, Pena and his wrist could be problems for us in the future. These things have a way of proliferating. I just do not want to see Crisp on this team next year. He is a lousy reminder of who we lost and who took his place. Damon is hitting 302, 22 homers and 73 RBI's for the Yankees. Crisp is hitting 266, 7, and about 28 ribbies. I think the difference is staggering. Get Coco out of Boston and to a city where the fans are blase and he will do better. Cleveland was the perfect place for him to hide between Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Victor Martinez, and Jhonny Peralta. Here he sticks out like a sore thumb at the top of our lineup where he has failed miserably.

[a700hitter]

700, I have always been a Nixon fan as you could guess from reading my previous posts. I think an incentive laden contract of two years could bring him back to the Red Sox. Look, Pena and his wrist could be problems for us in the future. These things have a way of proliferating. I just do not want to see Crisp on this team next year. He is a lousy reminder of who we lost and who took his place. Damon is hitting 302, 22 homers and 73 RBI's for the Yankees. Crisp is hitting 266, 7, and about 28 ribbies. I think the difference is staggering. Get Coco out of Boston and to a city where the fans are blase and he will do better. Cleveland was the perfect place for him to hide between Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Victor Martinez, and Jhonny Peralta. Here he sticks out like a sore thumb at the top of our lineup where he has failed miserably.

I don't think Nixon is looking for big money, and the last 4 years have shown that 4 OFs get plenty of playing time on this team. I'd like to see a 2007 OF of Manny, Willy Mo, Nixon and a new CF. Please no more Kapler. Make him the equipment boy if they like him in the clubhouse. Stinkske is not an OF and as far as I am concerned, he is IF insurance at first or third. He should be grabbing a lot of bench if the 2007 team is any good.

[rician blast]

I couldn't agree more. He's damaged goods. There's no reason to go near him. They need to look elsewhere and not waste their time even considering this guy.

 

IMO, a better alternative would be a guy some of us have mentioned who isn't a big name...

 

Gil Meche from Seattle, who is a free agent after this year

[schillingouttheks]

IMO, a better alternative would be a guy some of us have mentioned who isn't a big name...

 

Gil Meche from Seattle, who is a free agent after this year

I'm a big Meche fan. I believe Theo's priorities for pitching this offseason should be the following (in order of priority) :

 

Matsuzaka

Schmidt

Meche

 

Probably too many moves to make, but we definitely have the resources to do it. A rotation that looks something like below is quite appealing:

 

Schilling

Schmidt

Matsuzaka

Beckett

Meche

 

Move Wake back to the bullpen so we can get a spot start if needed, and he can be used a lot of the bullpen as well. Not to mention how valuable it would be to change the pitch speed in the middle of a game. Go from Beckett's 96 mph fastball to Wake's 65 mph knuckler. It would be baffling. Develop Lester as a long reliever from the bullpen (there's our lefty out of the bullpen), and move him to the rotation in '08 after Curt retires. Sign Francisco Cordero to set up Papelbon. Of course, they could move Papelbon to the rotation if they need to fill the vacancy, but if they can get that talent in this year's offseason, there's no reason to mess with the closer's role.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to Wily Mo.

[a700hitter]

IMO, a better alternative would be a guy some of us have mentioned who isn't a big name...

 

Gil Meche from Seattle, who is a free agent after this year

He'd be an improvement. He'd at least make up for what we lost in Arroyo-- a solid 4th or 5th guy.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Matsuzaka isn't happening unless he lowers financial expectations.

[example1]

Christ, what will you guys be saying a year from now when the sox again don't make the playoffs and are regularly throwing Gil Meche out there? This guy is a middle of the rotation guy for SEATTLE for godssakes.

[example1]

I'm a big Meche fan.

 

Off topic, sorry. However,

 

what the hell is wrong with people around here? How can we simultaneously want to dump Clement and pick up Meche? Seriously, that better not be our plan for next year.

[Cityofchampions33]

I just do not want to see Crisp on this team next year. He is a lousy reminder of who we lost and who took his place. Damon is hitting 302, 22 homers and 73 RBI's for the Yankees. Crisp is hitting 266, 7, and about 28 ribbies. I think the difference is staggering. Get Coco out of Boston and to a city where the fans are blase and he will do better. Cleveland was the perfect place for him to hide between Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Victor Martinez, and Jhonny Peralta. Here he sticks out like a sore thumb at the top of our lineup where he has failed miserably.

 

I understand your frustration with Coco, but you have to understand he is a much better player than this, I mean I know it's old, but the early season injury couldv'e taken away maybe 1/3 of the season awa from him, and who knows what we'd be saying if he didn't get injured. And how is Cleveland any better of a place for him besides the malaised fan-base? We have Loretta, Ortiz, Manny, and otehrs for him to hit with.

By all means if he fails next season he will be gone, but I don't think that a rotation every eyar in CF next year just to make some fans happy will do any better. Hell, even if Coco does decent over the next 2 eyars I'll be happy, personally, I'm just waiting for Jacoby Ellsbury to get a crack at the Majors.

 

As for the off-season, I hope to god we don't go afetr any more high-risk high-reward type-players, and finally just spend some god damn f***in greenbacks. We always go after the guy no one else wants, I mean yeah we have Big Papi, but tehre are a good amount of players who we depended on to good, and "hopefully" wouldn't do bad. I mean it aint like we're the Oakland A's, we have SOME money for Matsuzaka, or Schmidt, etc.

[Mr Crunchy]

damons power #s are skewed because of the right field in ny

but theres no arguing his leadoff skills and ability to hit when it matters

crisp??

hes 26 and has had his worst season in his career

it has to get better for him and i suspect he finishes strong

however

the fact that he has less than 30rbi at this point in the season is sickening

 

this team has a lot of questions come next season

[schillingouttheks]

Off topic, sorry. However,

 

what the hell is wrong with people around here? How can we simultaneously want to dump Clement and pick up Meche? Seriously, that better not be our plan for next year.

Ask anyone around here, and I'm sure that they'd say they would rather have Meche than Clement. No one's asking him to be a middle of the rotation starter in Boston. 5 starter at best who would keep us in games, while Wake and Lester came out of the bullpen. If he sucks, move him to the bullpen and replace him with Wake or Lester. Rotation or bullpen, he's not a bad guy to add.

 

This is all assuming that everything gets done, which it probably won't, but it's still worth talking about.

[Mr Crunchy]

meche looked good yesterday but his history isnt conducive to a boston atmosphere imo

[schillingouttheks]

meche looked good yesterday but his history isnt conducive to a boston atmosphere imo

I understand that, but it seems like he's worked his kinks out this year. Who knows? He'd be just as good of a FA signing as any of the others not named Schmidt and Matsuzaka. He's better than Zito, IMO, because soft tossing lefties (not named David Wells) are disasters waiting to happen at Fenway.

[rician blast]

meche looked good yesterday but his history isnt conducive to a boston atmosphere imo

 

you may be right. with slim pickins though I suspect the Sox will look hard at him.

 

Ya know who handled the Boston atmosphere pretty well...Arroyo. loosy goosy approach.

 

oh s***, the board is going to come down on me for mentioning his name.

[Mr Crunchy]

im not a zito guy

the fact that he gets killed by ny would only make us crazy around here despite our glaring need for a lefty stud

the spacious oakland colliseum makes his #s better than they really are

 

based on this team taking it like france these days

its hard to judge who is and who isnt a good arm out west...

[seabeachfred]

Example, well this post you ought to like unless you are nuts and ignorant about baseball. We forget Meche and go out and spend some good money and sign Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito. Stop this crap by trying to stop a heart attack with a cough drop. Go out and spend some good money and get ourselves two horses that can really make a difference. Then we put Wakefield in the pen, and trade for a good set-up man. Resign Loretta and put Pedroia at shortstop so we don't have a weak bat at the keystone and hope for good health from the rest of the team. Who do we trade for relief help? Crisp, a chronic disappointment this year but one who still has some saleable value. Another crappy year by him and can of pork and beans will be about all we can get for him. Besides, Ellsbury is almost ready and he is our CF for the next dozen years maybe starting by the middle of next year. In the meantime Wily Mo can handle CF.

[seabeachfred]

City and Crunch, Jacoby Ellsbury is moving up the ladder fast and there is no way we can keep both Crisp and Ellsbury, and Crisp has to be the one to go. He has failed. PERIOD!!!!!! And don't give me any crap about his injury. He has been back in gear for a long time and he has only gotten worse as the season has worn on. He could help us get a decent pitcher or a reliever, and until Ellsbury is ready Pena can handle CF with Hinske or a resigned Nixon patrolling RF. I have seen enough of Crisp and everytime I do I get madder and madder than we lost Damon to get this bum.

[rician blast]

Christ, what will you guys be saying a year from now when the sox again don't make the playoffs and are regularly throwing Gil Meche out there? This guy is a middle of the rotation guy for SEATTLE for godssakes.

 

 

it's all relative bro...there isn't much out there to be had in terms of SPs and Meche is decent. How he'd handle Boston I don't know, but if he can essentailly BE Arroyo, I'd be pretty pleased. Christ he's gotta be better than the sh*t we've thrown out there in the 4 and 5 spots.

[rician blast]

City and Crunch, Jacoby Ellsbury is moving up the ladder fast and there is no way we can keep both Crisp and Ellsbury, and Crisp has to be the one to go. He has failed. PERIOD!!!!!! And don't give me any crap about his injury. He has been back in gear for a long time and he has only gotten worse as the season has worn on. He could help us get a decent pitcher or a reliever, and until Ellsbury is ready Pena can handle CF with Hinske or a resigned Nixon patrolling RF. I have seen enough of Crisp and everytime I do I get madder and madder than we lost Damon to get this bum.

 

I don't necessarily get mad that the Sox lost Damon because I think the truth is that unless the Sox grossly overpaid for him, the Yankees were going to trump the Sox offer and he was going to grab the $$$.

 

I do get frustrated that the best the Red Sox could get in terms of a replacement was Coco...the FO did a great job of pumping this guy...I know I was sold...but even given the injury, and given a little slack for a transitional year, Coco doesn't look like a player who's going to have a tremendous impact on this squad.

[a700hitter]

it's all relative bro...there isn't much out there to be had in terms of SPs and Meche is decent. How he'd handle Boston I don't know, but if he can essentailly BE Arroyo, I'd be pretty pleased. Christ he's gotta be better than the sh*t we've thrown out there in the 4 and 5 spots.

Who thought we could get Schilling until it happened or Beckett in this offseason? The FO has to be creative and willing to part with prospects and $ and they can land a top guy to go along with Schilling, Beckett and Papelbon. Also, I agree with Fred that Crisp has to go this offseason. The FO has to sell the idea that the injury was the problem, and let's hope that he has a strong September. If they keep him for another year the other teams will figure out what Cleveland already knew-- that Crisp has reached his ceiling and that he is a horrendous center fielder.

[MC Hammer]

Who thought we could get Schilling until it happened or Beckett in this offseason? The FO has to be creative and willing to part with prospects and $ and they can land a top guy to go along with Schilling, Beckett and Papelbon. Also, I agree with Fred that Crisp has to go this offseason. The FO has to sell the idea that the injury was the problem, and let's hope that he has a strong September. If they keep him for another year the other teams will figure out what Cleveland already knew-- that Crisp has reached his ceiling and that he is a horrendous center fielder.

Again go cheer for the Yankees. They are always more than willing to part with prospects, and always willing to pay more money.

 

I just can't see why you cheer for the Sox when the Yankees do everything you want the Sox to do.

[a700hitter]

Again go cheer for the Yankees. They are always more than willing to part with prospects, and always willing to pay more money.

 

I just can't see why you cheer for the Sox when the Yankees do everything you want the Sox to do.

Yeah, you go root for Florida. They love collecting prospects for stars.

[MC Hammer]

Yeah, you go root for Florida. They love collecting prospects for stars.

I never claimed to love collecting prospects. You have said that the Sox don't spend enough, and don't get big name players for prospects.

 

I want the team to be run like it is now. We a big emphasis on having a strong farm system.

[a700hitter]

I never claimed to love collecting prospects. You have said that the Sox don't spend enough, and don't get big name players for prospects.

 

I want the team to be run like it is now. We a big emphasis on having a strong farm system.

Like it is now? I think some serious discussions are going on in the FO about the mistakes they have made. This team is playing worse than any Red Sox team since 2001 and before that 1992.

 

I realize that you have never said that you like collecting prospects. That would be a ridiculous generalization of your posts. Similarly, I don't advocate spending money just for the sake of spending money. I think they should spend to get value. Throwing $24 million at Clement was foolish as was spending $21 million for one year of Reneteria. For an additional $3 million, they could have had O Cab for 4 years. Please make a little effort to analyze the contents of each post and stop resorting to sweeping generalizations. It's foolish and lazy.

[MC Hammer]

Like it is now? I think some serious discussions are going on in the FO about the mistakes they have made. This team is playing worse than any Red Sox team since 2001 and before that 1992.

 

I realize that you have never said that you like collecting prospects. That would be a ridiculous generalization of your posts. Similarly, I don't advocate spending money just for the sake of spending money. I think they should spend to get value. Throwing $24 million at Clement was foolish as was spending $21 million for one year of Reneteria. For an additional $3 million, they could have had O Cab for 4 years. Please make a little effort to analyze the contents of each post and stop resorting to sweeping generalizations. It's foolish and lazy.

Anytime we have a problem of any kind with this team you immediately start talking about how we should trade our prospects, and spend more money.

[a700hitter]

Anytime we have a problem of any kind with this team you immediately start talking about how we should trade our prospects, and spend more money.

Yeah that's what teams do to fill gaps if they want to contend. The idea is to keep the good prospects and trade the lesser ones. Should the FO wait for the AA boys to be ready to assume rotation spots? Is your solution is to go with a three man rotation until the farm yields a crop? That doesn't sound to practical. Are you defending the Red Sox spending record. They have the second highest payroll in baseball. Their problem is not that they don't spend enough money. The problem is that they don't spend their money smart enough. I advocate spending to get value not to get garbage. The FO has been buying too much garbage recently. They are really doing something wrong to spend so much money and be so bad.

[MC Hammer]

Yeah that's what teams do to fill gaps if they want to contend. The idea is to keep the good prospects and trade the lesser ones. Should the FO wait for the AA boys to be ready to assume rotation spots? Is your solution is to go with a three man rotation until the farm yields a crop? That doesn't sound to practical. Are you defending the Red Sox spending record. They have the second highest payroll in baseball. Their problem is not that they don't spend enough money. The problem is that they don't spend their money smart enough. I advocate spending to get value not to get garbage. The FO has been buying too much garbage recently. They are really doing something wrong to spend so much money and be so bad.

No that's what teams with bad management do to fill gaps. Teams that actually has a FO that knows what it's doing is able to fill those holes with it's top prospects. Front Office's that don't know what they're doing are the ones that have to go out and buy superstars every year.

 

No that is not my solution to the rotation, but it's definatly not trading one of the 3 pitchers we had, and a reliever for Bobby Abreu.

[a700hitter]

No that's what teams with bad management do to fill gaps. Teams that actually has a FO that knows what it's doing is able to fill those holes with it's top prospects. Front Office's that don't know what they're doing are the ones that have to go out and buy superstars every year.

 

No that is not my solution to the rotation, but it's definatly not trading one of the 3 pitchers we had, and a reliever for Bobby Abreu.

Everything with you is an extreme. Who said buy superstars? Smart spending doesn't necessarily mean superstars, but you can't wait for the farm to fill out a roster. Which team is it with the smart FO that has all of its starters, position players and relievers from its farm system? The answer is none. Every team has to fill gaps. It's done through trades or FA's. Find me a competitive team that doesn't have players that it signed as FA's or got in trades.

[MC Hammer]

Everything with you is an extreme. Who said buy superstars? Smart spending doesn't necessarily mean superstars, but you can't wait for the farm to fill out a roster. Which team is it with the smart FO that has all of its starters, position players and relievers from its farm system? The answer is none. Every team has to fill gaps. It's done through trades or FA's. Find me a competitive team that doesn't have players that it signed as FA's or got in trades.

Are you not the one that wanted to get Abreu and pay his giant salary? Even after complain about Hinske by saying "We need pitching not hitting".

 

I never said we shouldn't sign FAs or make trades, but any time there's a problem you immediately say that we didn't spend enough money, or we didn't trade enough prospects ... even if the problem was caused by someone getting hurt (see: our pitching staff). This FO knows what it's doing, remember it was the first one here in 86 years that was able to get us to the WS.

[ORS]

700 is right, successful teams don't go to extremes on either end of the spectrum. The most efficient roster construction (for big budget teams) is one of premium homegrown talent with FAs to fill where the farm has failed.

 

I think the ultimate goal of the "100 Million Dollar Farm" is to be able to pick the choice talent from the farm and deal away the rest for more choice talent. The problem is that the cupboard started kind of bare. I think we are witnessing the restocking of the farm, which is why they have been reluctant to deal away youth for quick fixes. The only prospects dealt have been for established young talent (Beckett and Crisp). Early returns are bad on those two, but I think they should be given more time before judgement is passed.