Arroyo Traded to Reds

[tarum]

First off, Id like to say I totally agree with you about the numbers part. Not everything is numbers. Numbers can only show you how much, or what has happened already. They don't show room for growth and they don't show a players tools. Which is why I love this deal. Sure, Bronson is a resilient pitcher who in a couple of years will be known as a crafty veteran. He has value, no doubting that. Pena on the other hand has a career .303 on base and in something like 800 MLB AB's he has struck out once every three AB's and walked about once every leap year. This is not a good numbers move. Looking past the numbers, Arroyo - although resilient and durable - has been an up and down kinda guy who struggles every year to be average. Not to put him down, I am an arroyo fan, but Pena is a 24 year old super talent with monster power. He does have the potential to get everyone in the Reds front office fired with his the potential he has for this season and especially down the road. This guy is a monster bat. The numbers don't tell the story, you have to watch.

 

Second, I understand that '04 was amazing, but roster turn over happens. Pedro and Cabrera commanded more money than the sox were willing to play. The sox put a number on players based on on-field performance and not charisma or how much the fnas love them. It factors in and sometimes its not worth the money. that aside, a team needs to get younger. An aging team will only compete for so long. Trading for young pop is never a bad move, and their bringing along a great core of young pitchers so you shouldn't be upset. Theo knows what hes doing. Keep your head up, don't jump bandwagon yet.

 

 

Oh, and Pena doesn't play third base, but Youkilis does, and Pena has limited first base experience, so in the event that Lowell is a black hole at the place this year, that might not be a terrible option to fall back on if Pena has any defensive pulse.

 

I see your point.

hopefully this guy will be a monster bat as you said, but, why we didn't give Wells, he is older then Pesky

Arroyo is young, could be smart to keep him.

any way, it is too late now.

 

oh, by the way, we pay to Rentaria more than Cabrera wanted i think.

 

as long as the picthing is good we will not have any problem.

[jsinger121]

I see your point.

hopefully this guy will be a monster bat as you said, but, why we didn't give Wells, he is older then Pesky

Arroyo is young, could be smart to keep him.

any way, it is too late now.

 

oh, by the way, we pay to Rentaria more than Cabrera wanted i think.

 

as long as the picthing is good we will not have any problem.

 

Because the Reds wouldn't trade Pena for Wells. Had they asked for Wells the Red Sox would not have thought twice.

[Goalstopper]

It was only on there after it was officially announced. Nothing really leaked to the Boston Media that was in any of today's morning edition newspapers.

are you sure? i saw it today. the deal was made about 12

[jsinger121]

It was not in today's morning edition print copy

[Goalstopper]

I must be going crazy then.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Dude...I'm wicked pumped about this deal.

 

Everyone's real quick to get on Pena about his strikeouts and lack of walks. We gotta remember a couple of things...first things first, power hitters strike out a lot. Some more than others, but I'm talking as a whole, power hitters have a higher strikeout/at bat ratio then the proverbial contact singles and doubles guys. Not that his numbers in those categories don't need to improve significantly, but they don't need to come down quite as much as everyone is saying. We're not expecting Ichiro here. The other thing that needs to be taken into consideration, as a few of you've said previously, dude is freaking 24 years old. That's a baby! He's still developing the plate discipline and the eye that he's going to need to succeed in the Bigs. That'll come with time, experience, and coaching, and Papa Jack is one of the, if not the, best hitting coach in the league. Ortiz wasn't a polished hitter when he came to Boston...granted he was more refined then Pena is, but he was also older and had more experience under his belt. Pena's a good 4 or 5 years away from his prime (or 16 years away from his prime if he's on the Barry Bonds Diet )

 

And, let's not forget also, that Pena's going to spend this year platooning with Trot and getting the VAST majority of his starts against LHP, where he had a something like a ridiculous .880 OPS. That's Manny-Esque. I'll take that.

 

Gammons compared the numbers of Pena to Jessie Barfield, and said that that's what the RedSox are hoping to have on their hands, the next Jessie Barfield. Am I the only guy who thinks that we could have something way more significant here?

[kreinbihl34]

You want to trade the better pitcher for the same guy?

 

In my mind both are as equally good... Arroyo was ok all year round. Clement while was on fire the first half and horrible the second. Both equal to average.... Clement just gets paid more.... and as much as a big market team we are I wouldn't like to see us overspeading on average pitchers.

Arroyo was one of the faces for the Red Sox with everyting he had done for us. Atleast the Reds get someone to help their sorry-ass pitching.... I was hoping it was Clement instead

[jsinger121]

Arroyo is a league average pitcher nothing more. His K numbers have gone down the past few seasons. Clement at least strikes people out. I would not be shocked to see Arroyo struggle at the Great American Ballpark as it is considered a launching pad.

[yeszir]

Clement while was on fire the first half and horrible the second.

Getting hit in the face tends to do that to you.

[kreinbihl34]

True but the money he gets paid he needs to step up... just take a look at Schill.

[mtbykr]

I see your point.

hopefully this guy will be a monster bat as you said, but, why we didn't give Wells, he is older then Pesky

Arroyo is young, could be smart to keep him.

any way, it is too late now.

 

oh, by the way, we pay to Rentaria more than Cabrera wanted i think.

as long as the picthing is good we will not have any problem.

 

Yea we paid way more for rent-a-wreck,(and we still are paying for it) but the FO thought he was a big upgrade----they were wrong and have admitted such. I never wanted to let o-cab go, he was born to play in a place like boston; he prospered under the pressure! I think that they would have tried to get him back this year from the angels (who have tried to move him) but because the stupid angels backloaded his deal--he is too expensive now to take! Too bad to cause i miss the handshakes:D

[riverside sluggers]

If anyone wants to se, Dirt Dogs has a re-hashed picture of Wily in a Red Sox uni.

 

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/2006/03/mo_better_sox.html

--------------------------------

Also to note, he is arriving in Ft Myers this morning for meet & greet with his new teammates and cocahing staff. He will take part in workouts, might even appear in today's game.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I'm pretty excited to see Pena out there playing for us. I don't know much about the guy but from everything I've read in the past 24 hours, apparently he has some serious potential. However, Bronson was one of my favorites even if he was just average, and now we're down to 9 left from '04.

[tarum]

all i try to say is chemistry.

it is very important, we saw this in 2004.

rentaria is a good player but couldn't fit in red sox, cabrera probably wasn't better player then him but he fit very well.

 

we have to wait and see how pena is going to do, actually this is not only for pena, for rest of the new players too, including crisp.

 

and wells; sorry guys but i will be honest, i really don't want to see him under red sox uniform, he has to play in yanks with his bambino's hat, that's my personal opinion.

[The Monster is my Mom]

chemistry is overrated.

[jsinger121]

Completely agreed and Pena will fit in with this club because of guys like Ortiz and Manny who will take Pena under their wing.

[riverside sluggers]

Boston.com

 

There was already a rumor circulating last night that Washingon GM Jim Bowden, who made the trade that brought Pena to the Reds from the Yankees, might try to get the Sox to flip Pena for Alfonso Soriano, who refused to play left field for the Nats last night (Bowden, rumor has it, also would love Manny if the Sox paid some of the money).

 

Funny stuff Bowden, Theo wouldve been holding back giggles if you actually tried to call him about that

 

---------------

Ortiz on the Sox getting Pena, saying goodvye to Bronson

 

Slugging DH awed by Pena's power

By Howard Ulman, AP Sports Writer | March 20, 2006

FORT MYERS, Fla. --Even David Ortiz is in awe.

 

The Red Sox slugger whose towering homers draw gasps from fans has some fresh competition for the title of most powerful man in Boston's lineup. Ortiz is convinced his blasts from the left side don't travel as far as Wily Mo Pena's shots from the right side. "This guy has some sick power. This guy has some crazy power, man," Ortiz said as he stood by his locker Monday, a day of mixed emotions for him. "I just feel bad for my man, Bronson."

 

Earlier in the day, the Red Sox sent right-handed pitcher Bronson Arroyo to the Cincinnati Reds for the 24-year-old Pena, a raw talent who could develop into a top slugger but should start the season as Boston's fourth outfielder. Ortiz had spent the day taking batting practice and playing in a minor-league game after the World Baseball Classic.

 

He said he felt fine and would play his first exhibition game for Boston on Tuesday against Tampa Bay. He and Pena were teammates for the Dominican Republic in the WBC. "We were talking about hitting a lot during the WBC," Ortiz said of Pena. "He wants to learn. He's a hard worker, good kid." The 6-foot-4, 240-pound Ortiz said the 6-foot-3, 245-pound Pena is more muscular and a better hitter than Ortiz was when he was 24.

 

"When I was 24 the ability that he has right now I didn't have it and I was in the big leagues, just like him," Ortiz said. "Wait until you see him. He looks like a football player. He's huge. He's got legs like nobody I've ever seen." Pena still strikes out too much (116 times in 311 at bats last season) and walks too little (20 times last year). "When you hit homers people don't worry about strikeouts," Ortiz said. "If you hit homers, you're going to strike out."

 

Last season, Ortiz struck out 124 times but drew 102 walks and hit 47 homers. In 2004, he struck out 133 times with 75 walks and hit 41 homers. "Wily Mo is learning. He's going to be a great player," Ortiz said. "The prime time of a baseball player is between 27 and, I would say, 35, 36."

 

The right-handed Pena joins a team with Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, two of baseball's top hitters, and gives the Red Sox three potential 40-homer hitters if he plays every day. In 2004, he hit 26 homers in 110 games but doesn't figure to play much more than that if lefty hitting Trot Nixon stays healthy and plays most games in right field.

 

Nixon can become a free agent after the 2006 season, a year in which Pena can improve his plate discipline. "The best thing that happened to him was coming over here," Ortiz said. "He can learn from all of us." But he wasn't happy that the team parted with Arroyo, who was very popular with his teammates. "I don't know, man. That's why I'm always going to look at this game as a business," Ortiz said. "The game is crazy, but that's how it goes."

[riverside sluggers]

Gordon Edes

 

Pena in the house

By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff

 

Newly acquired Red Sox outfielder Wily Mo Pena is in Fort Myers this morning working out with the team. Sox manager Terry Francona said he expected to give Pena an at bat or two in today’s Grapefruit League contest against the Devil Rays, and added that he’ll be on the squad that travels to Tampa tomorrow to play the Yankees.

 

He's taking some BP with the team, and has already put a couple of balls over the scoreboard. Former Sox pitcher Bronson Arroyo, now a member of the Cincinnati Reds, was also in Sox camp this morning. Juan Gonzalez, however, was not. The injury-prone slugging right fielder signed a minor league deal with the Sox.

 

According to WEEI, Juan Gone was scheduled to be in FT Myers yesterday morning. He has since not showed up.

[god is a redsox FAN]

so seriously who likes this trade?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

so seriously who likes this trade?

 

Me!

[riverside sluggers]

I do...

 

Bronson at this point, and forseeable future wouldve been just a middle reliever for Boston. No guaranteed spot in the rotation. He wants to start, and the Reds are going to give him a spot in the top 3 of their rotation. His K's did take a big dip, he was inconsistent throughtout last season. He's 29, and has already peaked in terms of development.

 

They got him for outfielder Wily Mo Pena, a Dominican slugger capable of being a power threat in the heart of the Sox lineup someday. More strike zone patience and he could be the real deal. Its something that Theo couldnt pass up, a risk he was worth doing

[god is a redsox FAN]

so after seeing how much Pena strikesout, and his fielding, you still like this trade? And even trading arroyo after a f***ing home discount, you still like this?

[riverside sluggers]

He's just 24 and he was rushed into the majors before even getting his feet wet in the minor leagues. Lets not forget the team he is coming from, the lowly Cincinatti Reds. He's going to the contending Red Sox now. Ortiz, Manny, and Papa Jack will be his tutors in learning the strike zone. I have no doubt about that. Sorry but Im standing by what I believe.

 

IMO If the Sox werent intent on trading him, they wouldve put it down on his contract. In business (baseball included) there isnt handshaken agreements, or "my word is as solid as oak". You always need something in writing.

[He Hate Me]

Its a good move for both teams. You have extra pitching, so you spun it off for extra bench help. I'm not that high on Willy, but I didnt think much of Brandon either, so to me its a wash talent wise, and one that makes sense for both teams.

[god is a redsox FAN]

I've gone to many Reds games, and i've seen Mo play, and i just think he is a joke of an outfielder. I saw where someone said earlier he had a good arm, and was a good defensive too. WTF?? He needs a good glove before he needs a good arm, and he doesn't have a good glove. But i don't know, we'll just see what happens.

[mtbykr]

Some interesting stuff from Bronson in his Q & A this am:

 

“I said all along I'd rather pitch out of the pen here than start somewhere else. I still feel that way right now. But it's good knowing that I'll get 33-35 starts and not have to worry about being left out of the rotation. Still doesn't change the fact that I want to play in this uniform.”

 

Gotta love the fact that he really loves the sox, sucks they couldn't get rid of the fatman instead in this deal!

 

“Just, you know, going to Fenway Park 81 times a year, man. There's an excitement in that place I'm not going to get anywhere in the National League except maybe Wrigley. So that was the No. 1 thing. And then, just the group of guys we've had that a lot of 'em still here, pitching to Varitek. I felt like Boston was my second home and I hadn’t felt that way about any other place I've ever played. So, you know, stuff kind of being uprooted. You feel like you're being ripped out of your home. That's the way the game is.”

 

 

 

“We were pretty close. Probably as close as you can get to a GM as a player, but you know, the game is business, man, that's what it's about. It doesn't matter how you feel personally about somebody. You just make the best move. It's like playing a chess match, man. Just pieces on the freaking board. That's what players are in the business. It doesn't matter how much they like you. They're not going to not make a move because of personal feelings.”

 

We all know Theo was close to bronson, i guess theo doesn't let ANY personal feelings in the mix!

[jsinger121]

I've gone to many Reds games, and i've seen Mo play, and i just think he is a joke of an outfielder. I saw where someone said earlier he had a good arm, and was a good defensive too. WTF?? He needs a good glove before he needs a good arm, and he doesn't have a good glove. But i don't know, we'll just see what happens.

 

I was the one who said he had a strong arm and has raw defensive skills. The fact is he was god damn rushed to the big leagues when he should have been in the minors polishing his skills. Arroyo is a back of the rotation starter that we can find anywhere. Pena is a raw 24 yr old with 40 homer potential power. Those types of hitters don't grow on trees. If you offered me Pena for Arroyo 100 times I would say yes 100 times. Pena is in a better situation now. He is surrounder by 2 of the best Dominican Power Hitters who can show him the way to success and he also has a great hitting coach in Papa Jack. I don't see any downside to this trade at all.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

so after seeing how much Pena strikesout, and his fielding, you still like this trade? And even trading arroyo after a f***ing home discount, you still like this?

 

 

He's 24 freaking years old. The guy's a far more polished then Ortiz was at his age. His fielding will improve as he gets a bit older and gets more experience, the dude was up in the majors at 20 because of his ridiculous potential, he never put in his time in the minors to develop some skills and fine tune others. It'll come in time. Mark my words, it'll come in time. The hometown discount thing is ridiculous...at the time the Sox signed Arroyo, it was in their best interest to keep him in a Sox uni, so they did. At the time Arroyo signed with the Sox, he felt it was in he and his family's best interest to stay in Boston, so he did. This is hardly a binding agreement. You have to do what benefits you when it benefits you in business. And, it wouldn't benefit us now to pay Bronson 2 and a half mil a year to be a middle relief guy when we have AMPLE pitching. We lack a solid 4th outfielder.

 

I appreciate what Arroyo gave to the team (except those freaking CornRows) and wish him the best in the National League.

[mtbykr]

Good Article:

 

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16342685&BRD=1713&PAG=461&dept_id=24490&rfi=6

 

A few quotes:

 

Arroyo signed anyway, believing he had a tacit agreement with Jed Hoyer and Ben Cherington, the team’s co-general managers at the time, that he would remain a Red Sox for at least the foreseeable future

 

 

 

"My exact words were, ‘I’m not signing this deal to be in Tampa Bay in two weeks,’" Arroyo said. "Their exact words were, ‘We don’t foresee you being in any type of deals in the near future. There are no deals involving you at all.’ Whether they meant the near future was tomorrow, I don’t know."

 

"After the conversations I had with Jed and Ben," he continued, "did I think I’d be traded six or seven weeks later? No. Not that I didn’t think I could be traded possibly at the trading deadline if I wasn’t throwing well, but I didn’t think I’d be traded in spring training."

 

 

 

Even more disconcerting for Reds fans: "Hey, I’ll go out and pitch my three years. I’ve got three years and I can go where I want."

[yeszir]

Arroyo wasn't a star on the level of Pedro or Nomar, but I hate it when players leave on bad terms, be it through a trade or through free agency. Hopefully he'll accept the fact that it was a business decision that sent him away. I'm pretty sure Cincinnatti has a smaller music scene than Boston, so why knows? Maybe he'll hit it big there.