Arroyo Traded to Reds

[GhostofMalzone]

Arroyo Traded to Reds

 

Think other players agents might be watching this?

Red Sox hometown discount....The big print giveth and

the small print taketh away.

[MC Hammer]

Look if you're not good enough to be on the team then we're going to trade you. I dont care if you signed for a hometown discount ... if you can't cut it ... goodbye.

[ksushi]

I expect Pena to walk more this year, take more pitches and hit more pitches than he ever has before. I said that when i drafted him a little prematurely in the 10th round of one of my fantasy leagues a week and a half ago. I stand by it.

[Cityofchampions33]

I agree a lot with what Alexanderthegreat said at the begining of this thread. It is kind of an ******* move by the Sox to trade a guy who has given us loyalty and a discount for us. It also would be very hypocritical to say it's a business now and then crucify players who leave us. However this is different for the JD situation, which I won't get into.

 

On a more relevant note, I really like this trade. He's a good 20 HR hitter and he's only 24. However I do agree he needs to be taught some plate-discipline and could be great with work from Papa Jack.

[CrespoBlows]

I agree a lot with what Alexanderthegreat said at the begining of this thread. It is kind of an ******* move by the Sox to trade a guy who has given us loyalty and a discount for us. It also would be very hypocritical to say it's a business now and then crucify players who leave us. However this is different for the JD situation, which I won't get into.

 

On a more relevant note, I really like this trade. He's a good 20 HR hitter and he's only 24. However I do agree he needs to be taught some plate-discipline and could be great with work from Papa Jack.

 

You missed his point. He said he didn't like how Red Sox fans critized Damon for being a sellout, but didn't call the Red Sox out for trading Arroyo. It was a knock on the fans, not the team.

 

If you read his post below mine on the fourth page, you can see where he states he doesn't blame the Red Sox for making the trade.

 

Why is it an ******* move? He didn't give us a discount, he's a relief pitcher, and getting paid 4 million for a relief pitcher is pretty fair. He wasn't given an assurance that he wasn't going to be traded. It's no one else's fault but his own.

 

As for the Johnny Damon signing, he didn't owe us anything. He had every right to sign with the Yankees. It was just another business decision. I'm curious to hear, why that's different.

[MC Hammer]

I agree a lot with what Alexanderthegreat said at the begining of this thread. It is kind of an ******* move by the Sox to trade a guy who has given us loyalty and a discount for us. It also would be very hypocritical to say it's a business now and then crucify players who leave us. However this is different for the JD situation, which I won't get into.

As far as all this hometown discount stuff goes ... how much of a discount was it? I don't see one thing about Bronson whether it be from watching him or looking at his stats that makes me think he's worth anything more than what he got. He's a below average pitcher who can't even throw his fastball for a strike. If you cannot locate your fastball consistantly then you cannot pitch in the Bigs ... Bronson cannot. For Bronson to even belong anywhere near the rotation of a contending team he'd have to improve drastically, and at 29 it's not going to happen. Bronson should be happy we were even willing to give him a contract.

[pats55sox45]

whats great is this gives us a rf for next yr when we let trot walk

[MC Hammer]

whats great is this gives us a rf for next yr when we let trot walk

Or a righty hitter with power who can play LF if we ever decide to move Manny.

[riverside sluggers]

Theo's take

 

I’ve seen it repeated about a ‘gentlemen’s agreement,’ ... I talked to Jed Hoyer about the contract. The topic came up, but we said we cannot guarantee you’ll not be traded. There was nothing hot. No imminent trade talks. But certainly things change over months. There was no gentleman’s agreement. No handshake. Obviously he wanted to stay in Boston. It’s tough to do to someone who’s been a loyal soldier, enjoys being in Boston. But have to do what’s best for the organization.

[Cityofchampions33]

If you read his post below mine on the fourth page, you can see where he states he doesn't blame the Red Sox for making the trade.

Why is it an ******* move? He didn't give us a discount, he's a relief pitcher, and getting paid 4 million for a relief pitcher is pretty fair. He wasn't given an assurance that he wasn't going to be traded. It's no one else's fault but his own.

As for the Johnny Damon signing, he didn't owe us anything. He had every right to sign with the Yankees. It was just another business decision. I'm curious to hear, why that's different.

Yeah, just read it, I was basing what I posted off of what I saw on like teh 1st page. Also IMO its an ******* move because he has given us all the respect he can give and has been loyal to us, and then we trade him, but he did have it coming sooner or later, and his agent warned against it.

 

As for the Damon thing it takes waay too long to explain and as I stated earlier, I won't get into it. I've stated many times my opinion on Damon, so it is already known how I feel about that.

[Ray10]

Good trade for the Sox they trade Arroyo who's been struggling for someone who isn't even in his prime yet. The guy is only 24 and no doubt is going to be a great OF one day. This trade was a steal for the Sox.

[jsinger121]

Good trade for the Sox they trade Arroyo who's been struggling for someone who isn't even in his prime yet. The guy is only 24 and no doubt is going to be a great OF one day. This trade was a steal for the Sox.

 

I wouldn't say great but he has a ton of more upside than arroyo who has already reached his potential

[riverside sluggers]

I heard on WEEI that Wily was so ecstatic of now being a Red Sox (a lot due to he's going from the Reds to an actual contender), that he's headed right over to Ft Myers as we speak.

 

I can picture Theo saying, "Wily this is Papa Jack. He's your new best friend now"

[MC Hammer]

I wouldn't say great but he has a ton of more upside than arroyo who has already reached his potential

He hit 26 HRs when he was 22. His upside is insane. Bronson hit his upside already as you said and it really wasn't much.

[Anuj09]

 

I can picture Theo saying, "Wily this is Papa Jack. He's your new best friend now"

 

lmao

 

but whats his role???

I really thought the 4th OF would be Stern cuz he is tearing up ST

[riverside sluggers]

lmao

 

but whats his role???

I really thought the 4th OF would be Stern cuz he is tearing up ST

 

Wily is going to be Trot's platoon partner, Mohr is out of a job now since that was going to be his main role. Wily hit .291 against lefties in 2005, Theo of course jumped at that. I still see Stern staying up here as the 5th OF for the first 17 days then being sent back down to Pawtucket.

 

Theo also expressed that Wily could spell Coco & Manny sometimes in their positions. Take some DH, while Ortiz plays 1st base some more possibly. They might even try him at 1st base as well, a position he hasnt played in the majors before.

 

But as I said, first & foremost, his main role entering the season will be Trot's platoon partner.

 

--------------------

EDIT: I was curious to see what Wily's stats were for this spring training. But then I realized, he's just coming back from the WBC. Very cool, he's going to be reunited with WBC team mate Big Papi

[RedSoxRooter]

yeesh. Look at Pena's average splits when he's down in the count.

 

Count 0-1: .392

After 0-1: .190

Count 0-2: .068

After 0-2: .118

Count 1-2: .102

After 1-2: .146

Count 2-2: .168

After 2-2: .156

Count 3-2: .194

After 3-2: .194

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6522&type=batting3

 

Mark Bellhorn + power - plate discipline - clutch

[MC Hammer]

yeesh. Look at Pena's average splits when he's down in the count.

 

Count 0-1: .392

After 0-1: .190

Count 0-2: .068

After 0-2: .118

Count 1-2: .102

After 1-2: .146

Count 2-2: .168

After 2-2: .156

Count 3-2: .194

After 3-2: .194

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6522&type=batting3

 

Mark Bellhorn + power - plate discipline - clutch

He's 24 f***ing years old. Will everyone please calm down. He's 4 years away from his prime.

[He Hate Me]

He averages a HR every 16.2 AB's. That hardly sounds like garbage.

 

Pena is still a young guy, who has tremendous power potential. I think it's well worth the risk, and probably a massive steal off the Reds.

 

In a entirely unrelated subject, do you think Robinson Cano will improve on his '05 stats this year?

 

You missed the point of me saying he was hot for a stretch then reverted back to his normal self for the rest of the season. Like a basketabll player who is hot in the first half but is garbage in the second half. he migth score 20 in the first half and 5 points in the second. overall line is nice, but gotta look at the context of how he did it. I've had Pena for two years so I don't blame you since you'e probably only able to go by his stats right now.

 

I'm not trying to turn this into a Yankee Red Sox thing. Anyone who's had the unfortunate idea to pickup Pena after his hot streak and held onto him for 2 weeks too long knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[MC Hammer]

You missed the point of me saying he was hot for a stretch then reverted back to his normal self for the rest of the season. Like a basketabll player who is hot in the first half but is garbage in the second half. he migth score 20 in the first half and 5 points in the second. overall line is nice, but gotta look at the context of how he did it. I've had Pena for two years so I don't blame you since you'e probably only able to go by his stats right now.

The guy hit 26 HRs when he was 22 ... I dont care how up and down he was. When he's been in the league for a while he'll get more comfortable and be more consistant. Consistancy will also come from having a great hitting coach.

[CrespoBlows]

You missed the point of me saying he was hot for a stretch then reverted back to his normal self for the rest of the season. Like a basketabll player who is hot in the first half but is garbage in the second half. he migth score 20 in the first half and 5 points in the second. overall line is nice, but gotta look at the context of how he did it. I've had Pena for two years so I don't blame you since you'e probably only able to go by his stats right now.

 

You can try to discredit Pena, but anyone who can mash 20 HR's in 300 AB's is a pretty good player. Throw in the fact that he's only 24 years old, and I think that the Red Sox landed a future star.

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

Goo trade with a potential of being a Great trade for the Sox. My question is, do you guys prefer Pena over Craig Wilson since Wilson was also offered for Arroyo? :dunno:

[RedSoxRooter]

He's 24 f***ing years old. Will everyone please calm down. He's 4 years away from his prime.

 

I'm just saying...... yeesh. With those numbers he won't make it 2 years in Boston.

 

May I be the first to dub him Whiffy Mo Pena.

[MC Hammer]

Goo trade with a potential of being a Great trade for the Sox. My question is, do you guys prefer Pena over Craig Wilson since Wilson was also offered for Arroyo? :dunno:

Definatly. Craig Wilson is injury prone and already 30.

[He Hate Me]

I was going to try to reveal that his statement was biased.

 

If he wants to talk about a glaring lack of plate discipline, then Cano is subject A.

 

16 walks in 522 AB's. That's atrocious. Even compared to Pena's, 22 in 311 AB's.

 

I have the same opinion of Pena before he became a Red Sox. if someone becoming a Yankee suddenly means it's time for you to kill every aspect of their game, then thats the way you think, not me. I recognize the strengths and weaknesses of players on either team, and don't have a problem acknowledging either. Unfortunately there are some fans who feel the need to ignore every compliment you pay to their players and only listen when I make a critique about them. I don't have a problem when people make a good observation about players on my team, noone's perfect. My posts in here have always walked this line, yet the reaction I see form some people is like Pavlov's dog the minute they see my avatar.

 

Cano and Pena both are hackers. Cano's swing isnt as long so he had 68 Ks in 522 ABs compared to Pena's 116 Ks in 311 ABs.

[Soxfan1]

What?

 

Bronson Arroyo is 29 years old. How much better do you expect him to be?

In my book, thats still not in your prime yet in my book. As he gets older I think he will mature. Just has to work out some kinks.

[Cityofchampions33]

This will be a difficult project for Pap Jack, it'll be interesting to see what he changes mechanically in Pena's swing, and to see how he progresses discipline wise.

[MC Hammer]

In my book, thats still not in your prime yet in my book. As he gets older I think he will mature. Just has to work out some kinks.

Well then your book is different than every single baseball expert in this country.

[Cityofchampions33]

yeah, unless your well built like Rogah Clemens chances are you'll start to feel the wear and tear.

[CrespoBlows]

I have the same opinion of Pena before he became a Red Sox. if someone becoming a Yankee suddenly means it's time for you to kill every aspect of their game, then thats the way you think, not me. I recognize the strengths and weaknesses of players on either team, and don't have a problem acknowledging either. Unfortunately there are some fans who feel the need to ignore every compliment you pay to their players and only listen when I make a critique about them. I don't have a problem when people make a good observation about players on my team, noone's perfect. My posts in here have always walked this line, yet the reaction I see form some people is like Pavlov's dog the minute they see my avatar.

 

Cano and Pena both are hackers. Cano's swing isnt as long so he had 68 Ks in 522 ABs compared to Pena's 116 Ks in 311 ABs.

 

You haven't complemented Pena on anything. You've tried to discredit him based on his streakiness, and lack of plate discipline.

 

The problem I have with your post is the glaring contridiction you stated. You ultimately stated that Cano's plate discipline is acceptable because he doesn't strike out. But you had orginally stated that Pena's undoing would be his lack of plate discipline. Why would Cano be spared of that erosion, while Pena would be afflicted with it? Power hitters, do strikeout more than slap hitters. Look at A-Rod he fanned 100 times this year, only in rare cases do power hitters not strikeout.

 

Pena, is only 24 years old, and has time to develop. He pounded 46 HR's in only 647 AB's. I'm not an expert, but anyone with that kind of power potential is certainly worth taking the risk on. Especially for a 29 year old pitcher who can't control his fastball, and had a K/9 rate of under five.

 

Even if Pena's plate discipline doesn't develop, he's still a .260/.320/.540 hitter. I'll take an .860 OPS.