So Who Wins the East?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Yeah it is when your among the worst in CS%.

 

 

They usually don't give out gold gloves to bad fielders.

[riverside sluggers]

He said the corner OF positions.

 

Sorry I had misread when I saw Youk's name right after

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Once again, not a great telling stat. Ask any scout in baseball, and they'll tell you Jason Vartiek is a gold glove catcher. He has a rocket for an arm, and he does have extremely quick feet. You can't possiblily say that Vartiek is poor defensive catcher.

What good is a rocket arm if your not throwing anybody out? I dont think Varitek is a "poor" defensive cather I just dont think he was as good as everybody was making him out to be. One thing I do like about Varitek is how he deals with pitchers. Thats a major plus in my book.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

They usually don't give out gold gloves to bad fielders.

The Gold Glove is a popularity contest. As someone said on this board Orlando Caberea could have easily won the GG over Jeter. Pudge Rodriguez was clearly better then Varitek this year(he always is better then everyone). The most famous example of this award being a popularity contest is when Palmerio won the GG over Tino Martinez when he only played like 10 games at 1st base.

[ORS]

I have a few gripes with this. 1. just because the Red Sox defense might be better then the Yankees it doesnt make it good. You have statues in the corner OF positions. I've never seen Youkilis play first and believe it or not Varitek isnt as good behind the plate as his gold glove might suggest. (look at the stats)

2. Just because Curt Schilling throws 95 mph it doesnt mean hes back at all. Last year his velocity wasnt the big issue. It was the fact that his splitter was consistantly flat. You know that if his splitter is flat that takes away his K pitch and allows people to sit on his fastball. If he gets his splitter back he will be fine but I have too see it first.

I doubt you watched any of Curt's games pitched, aside from the Yankee ones, last year. If you had, you would know that velocity was a problem after he returned. He was sitting in the high 80's/low 90's. He's usually in the mid 90's. Take away a power pitchers power, and he's going to struggle. Not having his lower half made him overthrow with his arm, which affected his splitter. Toward the end of the season, the splitter had bite, the velocity was close to all the way back, and he pitched some very good games.

[CrespoBlows]

I have a few gripes with this. 1. just because the Red Sox defense might be better then the Yankees it doesnt make it good. You have statues in the corner OF positions. I've never seen Youkilis play first and believe it or not Varitek isnt as good behind the plate as his gold glove might suggest. (look at the stats)

2. Just because Curt Schilling throws 95 mph it doesnt mean hes back at all. Last year his velocity wasnt the big issue. It was the fact that his splitter was consistantly flat. You know that if his splitter is flat that takes away his K pitch and allows people to sit on his fastball. If he gets his splitter back he will be fine but I have too see it first.

 

Manny is a terrible defensive left fielder, but the fact that he plays half his games at Fenway will cover up his defense. I don't know what the hell you're talking about when you say Nixon is a bad defensive RF. Nixon posted a plus 7 FRAA rate as a RF last year. (Vartiek was a +2.) Youkilis was just average. (He did put up a +8 FRAA combined as a 3B).

 

Schilling couldn't throw his splitter, because he couldn't push off his ankle. But when he can get into shape, and comfortably throw off that ankle, watch out.

[CrespoBlows]

What good is a rocket arm if your not throwing anybody out? I dont think Varitek is a "poor" defensive cather I just dont think he was as good as everybody was making him out to be. One thing I do like about Varitek is how he deals with pitchers. Thats a major plus in my book.

 

From espn.com

 

He also has a strong arm and throws well to second base. While opposing baserunners stole at a 79.4-percent clip against him in 2004, pitchers on the mound had more to do with that than Varitek's throwing ability.

 

That's why people can steal off him.

 

If your pitchers can't hold people on, then the hell if the catcher can throw him out.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Schilling couldn't throw his splitter, because he couldn't push off his ankle. But when he can get into shape, and comfortably throw off that ankle, watch out.

According to the doctors he will be fully healed by ST. I'm more intrested to see how his 39 year old body responds to that plus I dont believe that surgery was proformed on other players(Outside of Jamal Lewis of the NFL I havent heard of anyone else having that surgery) so the doctors estimates on when Schilling will be back that just that....estimates. They dont know for sure. As for Nixon, hes not as bad as I thought once I took a closer look at his defensive stats so I'll give you that one.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

From espn.com

 

 

 

That's why people can steal off him.

 

If your pitchers can't hold people on, then the hell if the catcher can throw him out.

he was still among the league worst in other defensive cats such as PB, FPCT(I dont even like that stat) and others. Here take a look: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2005&seasonType=2&split=78&sortColumn=fieldingPct

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I doubt you watched any of Curt's games pitched, aside from the Yankee ones, last year. If you had, you would know that velocity was a problem after he returned. He was sitting in the high 80's/low 90's. He's usually in the mid 90's. Take away a power pitchers power, and he's going to struggle. Not having his lower half made him overthrow with his arm, which affected his splitter. Toward the end of the season, the splitter had bite, the velocity was close to all the way back, and he pitched some very good games.

Yeah I did, I have the baseball package. I saw the White Sox game, Blue Jays, Tampa. He got hammered when he hung his splitter. Schilling said it himself.

[Cityofchampions33]

Okay, with Varitek, throwing out runners isn't the most improtant stat at all. If you watched the Sox palyoff games and select regular-season games, you'll see how good he is when a close play is at the plate, ex. Burnes when he tripped over Tek's leg and OVER the base, that's one of many.

 

Now defense is a bigger factor than most may think, the White Sox had it, the Sox had it, the Marlins ahd it, you name it they probably had fantastic pitching along with great defense. Nixon also is in no way a statue, he'll run through a ring-of-fire to get a ball, and has a decent amount of range in RF when he can run at 100%. Manny also, may i remind you led the league in assists last year for some time and wasn't that bad at all.

 

Ans lastly, Schill admitted in his ESPN inetrview that he rushed back and was injured or not 100% for most of the time he was back. Did you see him when he was on? When he ehld the Yanks to under 3 runs twice?

[ARod2212]

Yankees will win the east, that's an easy question. Next topic.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Yankees will win the east, that's an easy question. Next topic.

haha yeah

[Cityofchampions33]

Yankees will win the east, that's an easy question. Next topic.

 

the bigger they talk, the harder they fall...

but yea in all likelyhood the Yanks should win for one more year

[jsinger121]

unless they suffer massive injuries to the pitching staff they won't win anything

[Cityofchampions33]

unless they suffer massive injuries to the pitching staff they won't win anything

 

o yes, how i forget

[TheRivernator]

the bigger they talk, the harder they fall...

but yea in all likelyhood the Yanks should win for one more year

 

 

they should win for years to come so long as good free agents and deals are ready to be made. This was the so called "lean" time for the yankees. Everyone knows that you build long term success from within, and the yankees couldnt do that entirely. So they threw money at the problem. Now, their farm system finally developed something and thanks to cashman, the lower levels have been admirably restocked. 2-3 more yrs down the road, and the yankee minor league system will be one of the best, and then more trades and call-ups will be facilitated and the total salary will actually go down....

[jsinger121]

id say the yankees prospects are more than 2-3 yrs away. most of the decent ones are not even in high A ball yet. their farm system is not in very good shape.

[ARod2212]

unless they suffer massive injuries to the pitching staff they won't win anything

Umm, what? So the only way they'll win is if they have massive pitching staff injuries? I know what you are trying to say, but you f***ed it up and are therefore being mocked. Nothing personal.

 

If the sun explodes tomorrow, we'll all die! You can't predict massive injuries any better than you can predict the end of the world. There are few reasons why the Yankees won't win this year, and most of them are based around injuries that haven't yet occured.

 

If you are asking me which I'd put my money on- Talent or Potential Injuries- I'll take talent 10 times out of 10.

[ORS]

Yeah I did, I have the baseball package. I saw the White Sox game, Blue Jays, Tampa. He got hammered when he hung his splitter. Schilling said it himself.

Do they still teach reading comprehension in Brooklyn? Or is it all picture books now? You said velocity didn't matter, but velocity does for a FB/Split power pitcher. Especially since most power pitchers drop and drive, and when the drive is jacked up, the mechanics of all pitches are affected. I've never seen much to question about your intelligence before this ATG, but you are being fairly dense on this one.

[Cityofchampions33]

they should win for years to come so long as good free agents and deals are ready to be made. This was the so called "lean" time for the yankees. Everyone knows that you build long term success from within, and the yankees couldnt do that entirely. So they threw money at the problem. Now, their farm system finally developed something and thanks to cashman, the lower levels have been admirably restocked. 2-3 more yrs down the road, and the yankee minor league system will be one of the best, and then more trades and call-ups will be facilitated and the total salary will actually go down....

 

Well, if history has anything to say in the new millenium, it says that the strategy u speak of doesn't work. Ever since the Yanks dynsatsy, the Yanks have yet to win, why? chemistry. In the dysnatsy, the Yanks had mostly home-grown players and went deep every post-season because of it. With the Yanks, theyre bringing in new old NL pitchers every off-season and due to Steinbrenner's bidding, have gone after the wrong players (Sheff over Vlad). Not syaing it's just dynasty, but as I stated earlier, defense and rock solid pitching, of which the Yankees are in question (injuries, age). Also please don't use the weak stats statement Rivenator, that says nothing

[jsinger121]

the yanks also have never won a title when spending over a 100 million dollars

[TheRivernator]

id say the yankees prospects are more than 2-3 yrs away. most of the decent ones are not even in high A ball yet. their farm system is not in very good shape.

 

 

compare it to the past few yrs and mark the trends. The yankees farm system was the worst in the league at all levels in 2003, that is bad. It is because George raped the team of its prospects one by one until they were all dealt away. It didnt help that we didnt have a 1st round pick for a few yrs in a row either. BUT, you have to start somewhere, and the yankees have the best low A team in the game, meaning that they have guys who are 4 levels from the bigs currently. That means that recent drafts and minor league signings are successful to this point. I am not really tooting the horn of the yankee farm system, but Cashman's policy the past few yrs has been to keep a first round pick and not deal from within (unless they give up on the prospect). They didnt do it this offseason and they now have had 3 consecutive 1st rounders and a 4th will be here this yr. The AA-AAA levels are pretty putrid though as only one blue chipper and a few marginal prospects inhabit that area. But, I would expect Tampa to be pretty good this yr and that is a start. I am conceding the fact that the sox have the better, more MLB ready minor league system, but it isnt necessarily needed right now. The Yankees are one of those clubs that can wait for their talent to materialize, and I know that if they keep these guys around for awhile, we will either createa new nucleus from within, or create deals for better, more proven players in the long run. I am not saying our system is great, but the start of a rebuilding process has begun and so far it has passed with flying colors. And just imagine, if george and his money could keep pouring cash into his talent, then we grow tons of talent from within, then the yankees would be real scary........

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Do they still teach reading comprehension in Brooklyn? Or is it all picture books now? You said velocity didn't matter, but velocity does for a FB/Split power pitcher. Especially since most power pitchers drop and drive, and when the drive is jacked up, the mechanics of all pitches are affected. I've never seen much to question about your intelligence before this ATG, but you are being fairly dense on this one.

When it comes to pitching velocity is the last thing that matters(obv it matters but its not the most important thing). Its all about location and movement. As guys like Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Jamie Moyer etc about that. As for your splitter question he could throw 100 MPH but if he cant get that splitter down the hitter will sit on his fastball and he will get hammered. Mike Mussina throws a splitter around 83 MPH and hes pretty good i'd say.

[Cityofchampions33]

If you are asking me which I'd put my money on- Talent or Potential Injuries- I'll take talent 10 times out of 10.

 

AND that talent comes with a free bonus of egotistical pricks/cheaters such as Damon, Sheffield, Johnson, Brown, and Giambi.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

ORS here is what Schilling said after one of his starts:

 

In postgame interviews Schilling said "Tonight was a night I had the stuff to win and I didn't execute," saying he had a good fastball, felt good physically, but failed to command his pitches when he needed to. He also said he didn't throw his first splitter until the ninth hitter of the game, something he believes cost him, and he pointed to it as a pitch he must improve on and regain confidence in moving forward.

 

He got hammered but had good velocity. What was the problem then?

 

http://www.masslive.com/weblogs/leftfield/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mass_outofleftfield/archives/2005_08.html

[ORS]

When it comes to pitching velocity is the last thing that matters(obv it matters but its not the most important thing). Its all about location and movement. As guys like Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Jamie Moyer etc about that. As for your splitter question he could throw 100 MPH but if he cant get that splitter down the hitter will sit on his fastball and he will get hammered.

Ask Glavine, Maddux, or Moyer to try and go upstairs with their high-80's heat. They'll laugh. If it's slow, keep it low. Schilling was still pitching like a power pitcher, only w/o the power. You can fool 'em at the letters if it's 95+, but you had better keep the ball down otherwise.

[Cityofchampions33]

guys like Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Jamie Moyer

 

Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, etc.

[TheRivernator]

Well, if history has anything to say in the new millenium, it says that the strategy u speak of doesn't work. Ever since the Yanks dynsatsy, the Yanks have yet to win, why? chemistry. In the dysnatsy, the Yanks had mostly home-grown players and went deep every post-season because of it. With the Yanks, theyre bringing in new old NL pitchers every off-season and due to Steinbrenner's bidding, have gone after the wrong players (Sheff over Vlad). Not syaing it's just dynasty, but as I stated earlier, defense and rock solid pitching, of which the Yankees are in question (injuries, age). Also please don't use the weak stats statement Rivenator, that says nothing

 

chemistry is the single most overrated thing in the game. So many non-players like to think that something goes on when teams all like each other and get along. I will give you this, familiarity is a good thing in baseball, but chemistry is BS. When I played in college, our best teams were when we hated each other. My senior yr, everything was cool and we didnt seem to have the fire to win. It seemed as if disliking each other was the fuel to get us farther. Chemistry is an ideal fake dream created by writers who have never swung a bat. Why havent the yankees won in 5 years?

Because of luck- gonzo's hit in 2001

Because of running into the hot teams- angels 2002, marlins 2003

Because of having less talent- red sox 2004

Because of having an all or nothing offensive attack that had a huge hole in it- angels 2005

 

I think the 2004 team was much worse man to man than the sox team.

Also, last yr, the angels could manufacture runs and handle adversity of being behind better than we could. Our offense last yr had such a huge holes from 7-9 that many rallies were averted. Also, our middle of the order got very cold. Put them together, an offense with a huge hole in it at the bottom and a slumping middle. They lost because of that. You win in the playoffs when your regular season strength proves to be your strength in the post season, and not when you have to rely on your weak spots to carry you. The yankees strength was the middle of that order last yr, and they did not produce. Ultimately it became a game of pitching, something that the angels were deeper in, especially in the pen. This yr, the yankee middle pen should be greatly improved over what we had last yr, then again it isnt that hard for that to occur. Also, when their strength was slumping, our offense needed to rely on the ability to manufacture. That is a problem when your only situational hitters are Bernie and Jeter and they bat far apart. This yr they add Damon who is great in situations and move Jeter down to the 2 hole where he can use his ability to hit behind runners and move runners to an advantage. That makes the top of the order very dangerous, but it also shrinks the hole at the bottom of the order, making it harder to pitch to the entire yankee lineup. I seriously think people are not addressing the yankee offense this yr, and I hope it bites them in the ass. Those who did not watch them did not notice the huge flaw that they had and how their offense was feast or famine over consistency. Damon will help us in that area. It should be a great yr....

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, etc.

Believe it or not but not everyone is blessed with that kinda of stuff. There are more people with the stuff of Glavine or Moyer then Clemens. Thus makes movement and location more important.