So Who Wins the East?

[TheRivernator]

Beckett is the only one with arm problems (we really don't know yet) while Wright , pavano and Wang arm all arm problems. schilling should be healed and early reports are he is doing well. clement was only a scope job which again we Will have to see how that works in ST. much better shape than your pitchers. plus rj and mussina are always a crap shoot with their injuries.

You have to come with it better than that col. Johnson has had one yr hampered by injury in the last 10. 1!!! He has an injury history, yes, but he takes the bump 30 times a yr. Also, you are right about schilling. Nothing was wrong with his arm last yr, yet he still was a complete embarassment on the mound. Also, do you really think Clement's problems were in his knee? It seems like the red sox think that knee surgery will all of a sudden cure their gutless pitchers (Clement and Foulke) of their gutless-dom. Doesnt work that way....

[Americal Man]

mj,

 

26 more wins is not a significant differnce? wanna restate that?

[TheRivernator]

mj,

 

26 more wins is not a significant differnce? wanna restate that?

 

 

winning percentage. The sox pitchers took the bump more times than the yankee pitchers did, so they should have more wins.

[Americal Man]

mj,

you of all people know how long it takes for that surgery to heal. he was as good as he could be w/o the ability to really push off. clement is an enigma although the was 13-2 with a few blown saves before he started to go downhill. I'd take that any day and just shut him down for a month

[VA Sox Fan]

VA, that wasnt a prediction, it was actual, real numbers from last yr. Try to keep up....

 

Shut the hell up you condescending s***! YOU need to keep up, I was responding to Americal Man's:

 

"mj,

 

very impressive stats. I'm talking wins and losses which I believe is how you judge the way a team will finish. we are now ready for your annual predictions."

 

So...kiss my arse.....:harhar:

[He Hate Me]

Beckett is the only one with arm problems (we really don't know yet) while Wright , pavano and Wang arm all arm problems. schilling should be healed and early reports are he is doing well. clement was only a scope job which again we Will have to see how that works in ST. much better shape than your pitchers. plus rj and mussina are always a crap shoot with their injuries.

 

:dunno: I guess you're right.

[Americal Man]

va,

 

go get him.....

[VA Sox Fan]

va,

 

go get him.....

 

Remind me why I missed him initially?

[TheRivernator]

mj,

you of all people know how long it takes for that surgery to heal. he was as good as he could be w/o the ability to really push off. clement is an enigma although the was 13-2 with a few blown saves before he started to go downhill. I'd take that any day and just shut him down for a month

 

Yeah, and I know that if he is good enough to hit 98 mph like he was shortly after he returned, then I know his leg is alright. He may have some permanent damage in there, he may have had some lingering effects, but the fact of the matter is, by the time he returned in the summer, he should have been fully recovered. He wasnt and he got absolutely shelled. We shall see, but I sure wont be drafting him in any fantasy leagues....

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Rivernator, Clement and/or Wells has a decent chance of being traded, and since Clement had a crap second half after getting hit with the line drive, that boosts the team ERA and ER and everything else. We are most likely going to have Papelbon in the rotation, and he will be great. Also, you did not do the bullpen, in which this year we are obviously superior to you ( don't even bother to do the stats from last year, we're better THIS year, everywhere but closer and we have much more depth). Glass Carl always gets hurt, and your two best pitchers are a combined 79 years of age. Wang has the shoulder injury.

 

So next time take stuff like that into consideration before you deem the Yanks pitching better than ours.

 

Oh, and I was not surprised one bit when I saw your projected standings.

[MANNYHOF24]

Okay

 

Johnson 17-8

Mussina 13-8

Wang 8-5

Chacon 7-3

Pavano 4-6

Total 49-30 .620 win%

 

Schilling 8-8

Wakefield 15-7

Arroy 14-10

Clement 13-6

Beckett 15-8

Total 65-39 .625win%

 

not a significant difference.

 

First off, if you think Schilling is going to pitch like he did last year, I think you are very mistaken. After 2004 Schilling could not even walk until about Feb of 05 so. He didnt have a chance to complete his offseason work out plan. He also said in a recent article that his ankle feels 100%. I expect 17-20 wins, 215 innings and 250 K's. I really think Schill has a huge chip on his shoulder and wants to prove people wrong, like he did in game 6:D

 

Schilling=Johnson- right now its a wash but i think personally they will both have much better seasons then 05

 

Beckett>Mussina- i think this one is fairly ovbious, health is a concern for both

 

Wake> Wang- Pencil wake for 200 innings and 13-16 wins, I do like the way Wang pitched last season however

 

Papelbon>Pavano- I know what we saw on Paps was fairly brief, but this kid brings it to the table, fastball 92-97 improving split and good breaking ball. I know most sox fans expect Paps to be in the bullpen but, he expect him to win a job in spring training

 

Clement/Arroyo= Chacon, I think this is a wash, you just never know what you are going to get from these pitchers every night. Clement has the best stuff, but he just doesnt have the mentalitly to pitch here, i really like the Clement/Cora deal discussed in another thread.

The Lineup

CF Crisp

 

Lf Manny>Matsui- Matsui is great... but in now way is he close to Manny

 

Rf Nixon

 

3B Lowell

 

SS Gonzo

 

2b Lorreta=Cano- Lorreta in front of Manny/Papi will be a great hitter, espcially in Fenway, Cano is going to be great but D wise he isnt there yet

 

1b Youk

 

C-Varitek>Posada- Hitting wise, Defensively, leadership, Varitek is the better player, and is a great game caller

 

Over all

pitching Bos>NYY

Offense Bos

Defense Bos>NYY(Slight Edge)

Bullpen Bos =NYY-Red SOx have more depth, but the Foulke factor Plus Rivera evens things out

Divison

Redsox

Yankees

Jays

D-rays

O's

[Americal Man]

mj,

i believe he was just pitching with his arm early on plus he was not is shape because of the; surgery, post season celebrations and the general excitement surrounding the ws win. we'll know soon enough how he will be this year.

[Americal Man]

manny

 

don't forget the dh - papi vs?

[riverside sluggers]

Rf Nixon

 

That he is, especially at Fenway Park Sheffield is the epiphany of Red Sox Killer. I'll give him that credit

[TheRivernator]

Rivernator, Clement and/or Wells has a decent chance of being traded, and since Clement had a crap second half after getting hit with the line drive, that boosts the team ERA and ER and everything else. We are most likely going to have Papelbon in the rotation, and he will be great. Also, you did not do the bullpen, in which this year we are obviously superior to you ( don't even bother to do the stats from last year, we're better THIS year, everywhere but closer and we have much more depth). Glass Carl always gets hurt, and your two best pitchers are a combined 79 years of age. Wang has the shoulder injury.

 

So next time take stuff like that into consideration before you deem the Yanks pitching better than ours.

 

Oh, and I was not surprised one bit when I saw your projected standings.

 

Oh, don't BOTHER with the truth eh? Take a look at the projected relief core and their 2005 stats as relievers...

 

Yankees

1. Wright 0IP as reliever

2. Small 16.3IP 14H 4ER 8K 5BB

3. Dotel 15.3IP 10H 6ER 16K 11BB

4. Farnsworth 70IP 44H 17ER 87K 27BB

5. Rivera 78.3IP 50H 12ER 80K 18BB

6. Villone 64IP 57H 34ER 70K 35BB

7. Myers 37.3IP 30H 13ER 21K 13BB

8. Sturtze 78IP 76H 41ER 45K 27BB

The yankees will have 12 pitchers on the roster and will likely deal sturtze when dotel is ready to return

 

NYY total 359.3IP 281H 127ER 327K 136BB 3.18ERA 1.16WHIP 8.2K/9IP 3.4BB/9IP

 

Red Sox

1. DiNardo 8.2IP 6H 2ER 9K 4BB

2. Seanez 60.3IP 49H 19ER 84K 22BB

3. Papelbon 18IP 18H 6ER 19K 7BB

4. Tavarez 65.7IP 68H 28ER 47K 19BB

5. Foulke 45.7IP 53H 30ER 34K 18BB

6. Riske 72.7IP 55H 28ER 48K 15BB

7. Timlin 80.3IP 86H 20ER 59K 20BB

 

BOS total 351.3IP 335H 133ER 300K 105BB 3.41ERA 1.25WHIP 7.7K/9IP 2.7BB/9IP

 

yeah okay buddy, sure looks like the sox pen is better than ours. Wow, now I see why you didnt want to see the stats....

[KeepTheFaith1229]

manny

 

don't forget the dh - papi vs?

 

 

Yeah! Papi owns whatever punkass DH they throw out there.

[riverside sluggers]

how is that a shot at us? Foulke is the only one listed in the Sox's bullpen who had an ERA above 4. ooh we're owned

 

Anyways thats a weak comparison to do. "Here's a projection of the pitching staffs with their stats from last season. Which means what happened last year, 2006 will be an exact duplicate

[TheRivernator]

First off, if you think Schilling is going to pitch like he did last year, I think you are very mistaken. After 2004 Schilling could not even walk until about Feb of 05 so. He didnt have a chance to complete his offseason work out plan. He also said in a recent article that his ankle feels 100%. I expect 17-20 wins, 215 innings and 250 K's. I really think Schill has a huge chip on his shoulder and wants to prove people wrong, like he did in game 6:D

 

Schilling=Johnson- right now its a wash but i think personally they will both have much better seasons then 05

 

Beckett>Mussina- i think this one is fairly ovbious, health is a concern for both

 

Wake> Wang- Pencil wake for 200 innings and 13-16 wins, I do like the way Wang pitched last season however

 

Papelbon>Pavano- I know what we saw on Paps was fairly brief, but this kid brings it to the table, fastball 92-97 improving split and good breaking ball. I know most sox fans expect Paps to be in the bullpen but, he expect him to win a job in spring training

 

Clement/Arroyo= Chacon, I think this is a wash, you just never know what you are going to get from these pitchers every night. Clement has the best stuff, but he just doesnt have the mentalitly to pitch here, i really like the Clement/Cora deal discussed in another thread.

The Lineup

CF Crisp

 

Lf Manny>Matsui- Matsui is great... but in now way is he close to Manny

 

Rf Nixon

 

3B Lowell

 

SS Gonzo

 

2b Lorreta=Cano- Lorreta in front of Manny/Papi will be a great hitter, espcially in Fenway, Cano is going to be great but D wise he isnt there yet

 

1b Youk

 

C-Varitek>Posada- Hitting wise, Defensively, leadership, Varitek is the better player, and is a great game caller

 

Over all

pitching Bos>NYY

Offense Bos

Defense Bos>NYY(Slight Edge)

Bullpen Bos =NYY-Red SOx have more depth, but the Foulke factor Plus Rivera evens things out

Divison

Redsox

Yankees

Jays

D-rays

O's

 

 

what from the above "evidence" makes you think that the sox pitching is better? The bullpen is deeper for the red sox? Only deeper in rookies, not deeper in 2006 ready talent. As far as stats, the yankee pen blows the sox pen away. As for rotation, well we had 5 of the 6 starters on the DL at one point. Then along comes Chacon and Wang, 2 guys who rejuvenated the staff and nobody seems to recognize that they are 27 and 25 respectively!!! Fact is, all we have to go on is recent performance. As far as stats are concerned, the yankee starting rotation is right there with the sox. As far as bullpen, the yankee pen dwarfs the sox. If you want to keep telling yourself that the sox pitching is better than the yankees, then you will only be fooling yourself come april.

 

And for those of you who love Beckett, take a look at his numbers outside of pitcher friendly marlins stadium. They are putrid and consider that they were in the NL. His move to the ALE in Fenway will not be a smooth one. Also, has the guy ever stayed healthy for one season, has he ever pithced more than 180IP or 30GS. Answer, NO. So all you funny guys out there who are quick to point out yankee injury issues and not look internally are being hypocritical....

[TheRivernator]

how is that a shot at us? Foulke is the only one listed in the Sox's bullpen who had an ERA above 4. ooh we're owned

 

Anyways thats a weak comparison to do. "Here's a projection of the pitching staffs with their stats from last season. Which means what happened last year, 2006 will be an exact duplicate

 

2006 is not an exact duplicate, but it is all you truly have to go on. So blind faith is better than stats? Where is that in the Bill James handbook, file it under b for ********. Also, I made a statistical analysis that cannot be argued, well because it was statistical. FACT is, over last season, the yankee relievers are much better AS A WHOLE than the sox ones, hands down....

[riverside sluggers]

As far as stats, the yankee pen blows the sox pen away.

 

Givens to have a good season

Mariano of course

Myers will be a horse to get out lefties, but jacked if Torre leaves him against righties which I bet will happen.

Small will be a solid middle relief/spot starter IF 05 wasnt a career fluke year for him, Ditto goes for Chacon who will be in the rotation

 

Doubts

--Farnsworth has long been known to not handle the high-pressure situations that good. Think playoffs, like recently against the Astros.

--Villone is bound to be an Embree clone on your hands

--yes its true but Im also putting Dotel down. He is not set to come back until June/July and is coming off of major shoulder surgery.

--Sturtze will give the same 5+ ERA

--Wright, a starter or relief he will still suck. Yankees made a bad signing so deal with it, it cant be passed off as moot or it was unexpected

[gosox613]

what from the above "evidence" makes you think that the sox pitching is better? The bullpen is deeper for the red sox? Only deeper in rookies, not deeper in 2006 ready talent. As far as stats, the yankee pen blows the sox pen away. As for rotation, well we had 5 of the 6 starters on the DL at one point. Then along comes Chacon and Wang, 2 guys who rejuvenated the staff and nobody seems to recognize that they are 27 and 25 respectively!!! Fact is, all we have to go on is recent performance. As far as stats are concerned, the yankee starting rotation is right there with the sox. As far as bullpen, the yankee pen dwarfs the sox. If you want to keep telling yourself that the sox pitching is better than the yankees, then you will only be fooling yourself come april.

 

And for those of you who love Beckett, take a look at his numbers outside of pitcher friendly marlins stadium. They are putrid and consider that they were in the NL. His move to the ALE in Fenway will not be a smooth one. Also, has the guy ever stayed healthy for one season, has he ever pithced more than 180IP or 30GS. Answer, NO. So all you funny guys out there who are quick to point out yankee injury issues and not look internally are being hypocritical....

So u got lucky on Chacon and Wang...what the hell makes you think they will keep that up, plus they both didnt put complete seasons together, therefore making their performance with the yankees not a great indication. Yea, you could say we should look at recent performance, or you could say two words. Carlos Beltran.

[TheRivernator]

Givens to have a good season

Mariano of course

Myers will be a horse to get out lefties, but jacked if Torre leaves him against righties which I bet will happen.

Small will be a solid middle relief/spot starter IF 05 wasnt a career fluke year for him, Ditto goes for Chacon who will be in the rotation

 

Doubts

--Farnsworth has long been known to not handle the high-pressure situations that good. Think playoffs, like recently against the Astros.

--Villone is bound to be an Embree clone on your hands

--yes its true but Im also putting Dotel down. He is not set to come back until June/July and is coming off of major shoulder surgery.

--Sturtze will give the same 5+ ERA

--Wright, a starter or relief he will still suck. Yankees made a bad signing so deal with it, it can be passed off as moot or it was unexpected

 

 

Here is the way I see it. Dotel is a good signing but one with huge risk. We have no idea what he will give. In the meantime, Sturtze will be a fine fill in (also his era was mid 4's) until he is ready. Farnsworth is a questionable signing as well, but his numbers in Detroit were fantastic, and ALC numbers translate to the ALE a whole lot better than NL numbers do. I am wary of a blowout on his part, but I think he has turned the corner and I hope he has. As far as Villone and Myers, Myers is a lefty only guy and Villone can handle lefties well too, but can actually face both. If he turns out to suck as a full reliever, then make him a situational lefty. At worst, this pen is a major upgrade over last yr. We have lefties who can own lefties and righties who can and will own righties. This is the way to go, because if there are some meltdowns, and that invaiably happens in every pen, then you can handle them. Wright is a wildcard, because his stuff should translate well to the pen, but who knows. Small is also out there for long relief. I think we have a much better pen, but bullpens are harder to predict than are starters.....

[TheRivernator]

So u got lucky on Chacon and Wang...what the hell makes you think they will keep that up, plus they both didnt put complete seasons together, therefore making their performance with the yankees not a great indication. Yea, you could say we should look at recent performance, or you could say two words. Carlos Beltran.

 

did you happen to gander at Beltran's career numbers before making that dumb statement? Chacon did put a full season together in colorado, the pitchers graveyard. His total era was low 3's for all of last yr, and Wang was a rookie pitcher. So you can harp on how well pap did, but look down on wang because he didnt pitch a full yr. The hypocrisy is flowing strong here. Cmon man, wake up....

[Optimist]

Yankees

Red Sox

Blue Jays

Orioles

Devil Rays

 

I'm predicting a 2 - 5 game difference between the Sox and Yankees. And I fully expect the Blue Jays to end up finishing third, just closer this year.

[riverside sluggers]

Lets take a step away from Red Sox vs Yanks just for a sec

 

Anyone else think the D-rays will not be the worst team but it will be in fact the Orioles?

[He Hate Me]

Lets take a step away from Red Sox vs Yanks just for a sec

 

Anyone else think the D-rays will not be the worst team but it will be in fact the Orioles?

 

The O's have a better rotation. D-Rays will never be better till they AT LEAST get their pitching up somewhat

[Optimist]

Lets take a step away from Red Sox vs Yanks just for a sec

 

Anyone else think the D-rays will not be the worst team but it will be in fact the Orioles?

 

The O's have Mazzone. Be afraid of what he could do with that staff. Very afraid. (If your goal is third place, that is...)

[Americal Man]

the oriholes have a lot of problems. Lopez wants an extension, miggy is not happy, they lost their closer, they have no other big boppers since palmeiro and sosa left and their pitching is still young.

 

the d-rays won't have Lou to kick their butts and who knows how they will do.

 

mj,

you believe what you want about your pen but it will fail you again this year. we upgraded ad barring injuries will do much better. foulke either will or won't real early so we won't get hung out on that again

[riverside sluggers]

As for closer, all accounts have Papelbon being plan B. I want him in the rotation of course. But Id be calm and collect giving him the ball in the 9th with the Sox up by just 1 run

[Americal Man]

As for closer, all accounts have Papelbon being plan B. I want him in the rotation of course. But Id be calm and collect giving him the ball in the 9th with the Sox up by just 1 run

he's a horse that will get better as he pitches more. he should learn another pitch and schill will help him with the split. he and hanson will be good going down the road....