Peter Gammons, the spin doctor

[TheRivernator]

Has anyone read this article by Peter Gammons? Is there any bigger boston spin doctor than this guy, well aside from the curly haired troll. Here is the article posted on ESPN...

 

The deal entailed more than 110 phone calls between assistant GMs Chris Antonetti of the Guardians and Jed Hoyer of the Red Sox alone, separate from conversations between Mark Shapiro, Theo Epstein, Pat Gillick and Reds GMs Dan O'Brien and Brad Kullman, who had been a part of all this for weeks. Then there were the complex physicals for Guillermo Mota and Arthur Rhodes, and, finally, getting the Commissioner's Office to sign off on the cash Boston is -- and, perhaps, will -- pay Cleveland.

 

Finally, on Saturday morning, Shapiro called Antonetti.

 

"Now," said Shapiro, "we begin our 13-day offseason."

 

It was a hectic week for the Guardians, who traded one of their most popular and ascending players to get what they and many others consider a special, future, corner star (third baseman Andy Marte) and enough of an upgrade in Mota and catcher Kelly Shoppach to continue building for the long run and not compromise their 2006 season. But for the Red Sox, this was the end to a week that might spawn another dozen books.

 

The week began with Epstein's return. Now, from the end of the winter meetings, this was an inevitability, yet it received more coverage than John Kerry winning the Democratic nomination in 2004. Some of the coverage turned into comic theater, where some media members wrote more about themselves and some myopic views than the issues. But John Henry, Tom Werner, Larry Lucchino and Epstein hammered out their organizational constitution -- to clear up some of the self-promoting leaks, agree on a long-term vision and work to value players and stick to those valuations so that they didn't get run up the mainsail in free-agent negotiations. And now it seems as if the Red Sox are more focused and less dysfunctional than before Theo put on the gorilla suit and made his escape from Yawkey Way.

 

Oh, yes -- Manny Ramirez and David Wells remain, as well.

 

Within 72 hours, the deal that Hoyer and Ben Cherington -- with Epstein's advice and consent -- had worked on for weeks finally came together.

 

"It is a great trade for the Red Sox," Shapiro said. "Because of the emergence of Grady Sizemore, Coco [Crisp] is probably worth more to Boston than to us because he can play center field. He is a tremendous person whose career is on the ascent. His enormous energy and the fact that he thrives on the stage may make him an even better player in Boston. We had more play on him this winter than anyone else on our roster, but this was the one trade that made sense."

 

Considering that New England obsessed about center field for five weeks, it was a relief to get the one player they wanted most all the way back to September.

 

It was a deal that began in September, with Epstein in charge, and was essentially constructed by Hoyer and Cherington. But allowing Damon to walk and patiently working to get Crisp is what the struggle for the soul of the Red Sox was all about.

 

This will be a far, far different Red Sox team than in 2005; only 11 players remain from their Opening Day roster. Crisp will be in center instead of Damon; Mike Lowell in place of Bill Mueller at third, Kevin Youkilis and J.T. Snow in place of Kevin Millar and John Olerud at first; Alex Gonzalez likely in place of Edgar Renteria at shortstop; Mark Loretta with Alex Cora and Tony Graffanino at second; Josh Beckett in the rotation; and Rudy Seanez, Julian Tavarez, David Riske and possibly Jonathan Papelbon and Lenny DiNardo to reconstruct what was the worst bullpen in the American League.

 

 

There isn't anyone who doesn't understand that how far the 2006 Red Sox go likely depends on the health -- physical and mental -- of Curt Schilling, Beckett, Keith Foulke, Lowell and Ramirez.

 

 

But this is a team whose great 2003-2005 run was over. It was an aging, slowing team that in September dropped to fifth in the AL in runs and sixth in OPS after leading in both for five months. If management held the 2004 world champions together, they might have been lapped by the young, talented Tampa Bay Devil Rays in 2007.

 

 

Now they have added Beckett, Crisp and Youkilis, all at the age (26) when they should be heading toward their career peaks. For years, Epstein has preached that the Red Sox had to start focusing on players on their way up, before they peak. This offseason has been that beginning.

 

 

If one takes the 2006 projections in the Bill James guide, Crisp's OPS will be .790 with 13 homers; Damon's .786 with 12 homers; Loretta's is .769, compared to the combined .729 Boston had at second in 2005, and it was only above .700 because of Graffanino and Cora the last two months. Youkilis' OPS projects to be .837 with 14 homers; Millar's .802 with 13; Lowell's 782 with 16 homers (projected in Florida's park); and Mueller's .786 with 12 homers (projected in Fenway). Even Gonzalez's projected numbers against Renteria aren't so bad -- .691 with 13 homers for Gonzalez vs. .749 with 10 for Renteria. And by the defensive evaluation system used by one AL team, Gonzalez was one of the top three defensive shortstops, along with Pittsburgh's Jack Wilson and Houston's Adam Everett. Even Dustan Mohr had a .907 OPS vs. left-handed pitchers, albeit playing half his games at Coors Lite.

 

 

If Lowell comes back to 80 percent of his 2003-2004 numbers, Trot Nixon is in the shape he is rumored to be, and Manny is Manny, then the Red Sox actually could be just as good an offensive team as they were. Because Epstein and Hoyer have been driving forces to put a heavier emphasis on defense, they believe they will be improved at every infield position compared to what they were at the beginning of the 2005 season, with Cora (and, possibly Graffanino) and the acrobatic Snow on the bench.

 

 

There is strong sentiment to put Papelbon, who will be 25, in the rotation, but where last year they got only 11 starts from Schilling and had to use 10 starters on the year, Terry Francona now has Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Matt Clement, Tim Wakefield, Bronson Arroyo and Papelbon. As some of the veterans fade, by 2007 they could well have Beckett, Papelbon and 22-year-old Jon Lester in the rotation. By signing the relievers, they give time for their prized young arms like Craig Hansen, Edgar Martinez and Manny Delcarmen to develop, and have DiNardo (expected to be in the pen), Abe Alvarez and Cla Meredith for inventory.

 

 

They had to give up two top prospects and two more great arms for Beckett, but they still will have shortstops Dustin Pedroia and Jed Lowrie and outfielders Brandon Moss, David Murphy and Jacoby Ellsbury in Triple-A Pawtucket by midseason.

 

 

Like the Red Sox, the Guardians had their share of frustration this winter because of the inflationary free-agent market and their $50M payroll. But if Jason Michaels can repeat his .399 on-base percentage for 400-450 at-bats behind Sizemore, the Guardians' offense could approach 2005, especially if Marte blossoms in the second half and they keep Travis Hafner healthy.

 

The Guardians wanted Trevor Hoffman and had to bring back Bob Wickman, but if Mota can stay healthy for five months -- and he is coming to Cleveland on Monday to begin an offseason conditioning program -- then with Rafael Betancourt, Matt Miller, Fernando Cabrera and Scott Sauerbeck in front of Wickman, the bullpen should be fine. Mota's physical showed him to be strong and very flexible, and when healthy, he is a strikeout reliever.

 

 

The Red Sox and Guardians know that the Yankees and White Sox begin spring training as the heavy favorites in their respective divisions. But this was in many ways a transition trade for both teams. The Red Sox needed to start getting ascending players, gradually introduce younger farm system products into the mix and take a step back from the institutional obsession with the Yankees. The Guardians have to constantly try to develop long term and compete in the short term until the Ohio economy changes and the fans return in droves to The Jake.

 

 

"In some ways, it was a painful trade for both teams because we didn't want to trade Marte and they didn't want to trade Crisp," Hoyer said. "But that's probably what makes it a good trade."

[TheRivernator]

I find it funny how he gives the coco deal a nice slant to it. First of all, Coco is a fine CFer and will likely be good for years to come. BUT, inside this deal, you gave up a prime corner IF prospect who is ready for the bigs. He was worth more than Coco on his own. Riske for Mota in the deal is okay, but if Mota regains his 2003 form, then he will be a much better player than the steadily consistent yet unspectacular Riske is. Bard for Shoppach is a complete dropoff in value. Shoppach is considered in the fantasy realms as a top 30 catcher already and projects to being a 25-30 homer backstop, which are hard to find at a very thin position. But the fact that the sox will have to add a PTBNL is a nice throwin to.

 

Basically, the sox gave up more universally recognized potential in this deal. One question though, is there any truth to the rumor that if Mota goes to the DL because of his arm, then the Guardians will be able to require DelCarmen? I have heard that from multiple sources....

[MC Hammer]

I find it funny how he gives the coco deal a nice slant to it. First of all, Coco is a fine CFer and will likely be good for years to come. BUT, inside this deal, you gave up a prime corner IF prospect who is ready for the bigs. He was worth more than Coco on his own. Riske for Mota in the deal is okay, but if Mota regains his 2003 form, then he will be a much better player than the steadily consistent yet unspectacular Riske is. Bard for Shoppach is a complete dropoff in value. Shoppach is considered in the fantasy realms as a top 30 catcher already and projects to being a 25-30 homer backstop, which are hard to find at a very thin position. But the fact that the sox will have to add a PTBNL is a nice throwin to.

 

Basically, the sox gave up more universally recognized potential in this deal. One question though, is there any truth to the rumor that if Mota goes to the DL because of his arm, then the Guardians will be able to require DelCarmen? I have heard that from multiple sources....

We traded 2 injured players for 2 healthy ones ... whats wrong with that? If the rumors about Marte's injury are true than he wont be able to play again until next season, and even then it'll be rehab.

 

Shoppach was never going to get a shot in Boston because of Tek. Trading Shoppach is more of a thank you to him than it is a good baseball move.

 

PTBNL are usually A ballers. It's not like the PTBNL is going to be Manny.

 

I've heard that if Mota goes down the Guardians will recieve cash. I don't believe theres any rule in baseball that says if one player in a trade gets hurt then you have to exchange him with another. But I do believe the Guardians get a nice pay day if Mota gets hurt.

[ACL BoSox]

Umm, a prospect for a proven player sounds good to me.

[YAZMAN]

Shoppach was never going to get a shot in Boston because of Tek. Trading Shoppach is more of a thank you to him than it is a good baseball move.

 

Shoppach is solid, but he's still a prospect who turns 26 in March and hit .242 with 48HR's in 770 AB's (1 in every 16 AB's) in two seasons of AAA.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Shoppach was never going to get a shot in Boston because of Tek. Trading Shoppach is more of a thank you to him than it is a good baseball move.

 

 

Shoppach is actually pretty screwed. I don't know how we said "thank you" to him by placing him in Cleveland behind Victor Martinez.

[stocker323]

Shoppach is actually pretty screwed. I don't know how we said "thank you" to him by placing him in Cleveland behind Victor Martinez.

 

Well we weren't really doing him any good in Boston either being behind Varitek who is still signed for 3 more years here.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Well we weren't really doing him any good in Boston either being behind Varitek who is still signed for 3 more years here.

 

Thats true...but his playing time would come faster in 3 years behind V-tek then 12-15 years behind Victor Martinez. It would have been nice for Shoppach to work with Wakefield and be his catcher for the next couple years. Either way its not a big deal for us cause by the time Varitek is done we will find a replacement.

 

I have to say though...Cleveland is the worst place for a catcher trying to break a lineup. Even Joe Mauer has injury issues from time to time so I would rather go to Minnesota over Cleveland.

[Sizzlin22]

BUT, inside this deal, you gave up a prime corner IF prospect who is ready for the bigs. He was worth more than Coco on his own.

I'm sorry but you can't ppssibly believe that can you? Marte may have a been a good prospect yes, but he was just that: a prospect. It is never a sure shot that prospects will translate well into the bigs. Could it turn out that Marte becomes better than Crisp? Absoloutly. But as of right now we have no idea.

[gosox34]

I'm sorry but you can't ppssibly believe that can you? Marte may have a been a good prospect yes, but he was just that: a prospect. It is never a sure shot that prospects will translate well into the bigs. Could it turn out that Marte becomes better than Crisp? Absoloutly. But as of right now we have no idea.

I'd take Marte over Crisp any day. Now we've given up the last of our farm system and have no chance to revamp it for 2-3 years. What we could've done was have Youk play center and Marte play third. Why not?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I'd take Marte over Crisp any day. Now we've given up the last of our farm system and have no chance to revamp it for 2-3 years. What we could've done was have Youk play center and Marte play third. Why not?

 

Umm...yeah, except for one thing...YOUK CAN'T PLAY CENTER.

 

We've given up the last of our farm system? How about Jon Papelbon, Jon Lester, Craig Hansen, Dustin Pedroia, Manny Delcarmen, Jacoby Ellsbury, Brandon Moss...ringing any bells?

 

Plus, there's a rumor that we might get Lastings Milledge..

[riverside sluggers]

beat me to it "keepthefaith", the farm is far from being dried up

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Ha, ya know, "keep the faith", it was on all the billboards with Manny and Pedro when we came back in the '04 ALCS...

[jsinger121]

the farm has been in the best shape its been in years and with 7 of the top 100 picks in this years draft it is only going to get better if the sox scout and draft correctly.

[TheRivernator]

I'm sorry but you can't ppssibly believe that can you? Marte may have a been a good prospect yes, but he was just that: a prospect. It is never a sure shot that prospects will translate well into the bigs. Could it turn out that Marte becomes better than Crisp? Absoloutly. But as of right now we have no idea.

 

 

If anybody actually looked at this deal objectively, instead of through the beantown media haze, you would see what I mean. Every FANTASY expert said that this deal made no sense. Granted, fantasy does not care about defense or chemistry, but from a numbers standpoint, he would be worth more at his position than crisp will be at his. Also, Crisp was not needed in cleveland and he was not a big time prospect. If you have a frigne guy make it to the bigs and excel, you never know if he will actually come back to the expectations that were set for him. On the flipside, Marte was considered a top 5 prospect IN THE GAME. Those guys don't get traded, let alone for a guy like Crisp. Honestly, if Mota gets hurt and DelCarmen gets sent to the Guardians, how bad of a deal will this be???

[riverside sluggers]

The Red Sox have since reported that DelCarmen won't be sent to the Guardians, this of course also rules out the PTBNL thing. The player would primed to be a mid-level prospect. It can also be otherwise cash considerations.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

If anybody actually looked at this deal objectively, instead of through the beantown media haze, you would see what I mean. Every FANTASY expert said that this deal made no sense. Granted, fantasy does not care about defense or chemistry, but from a numbers standpoint, he would be worth more at his position than crisp will be at his. Also, Crisp was not needed in cleveland and he was not a big time prospect. If you have a frigne guy make it to the bigs and excel, you never know if he will actually come back to the expectations that were set for him. On the flipside, Marte was considered a top 5 prospect IN THE GAME. Those guys don't get traded, let alone for a guy like Crisp. Honestly, if Mota gets hurt and DelCarmen gets sent to the Guardians, how bad of a deal will this be???

 

 

So, are you going to keep ranting about how we lost Marte or are you finally going to acknowledge that we got Crisp, a 26 year old monster and Riske, an upgrade over Mota?

[jsinger121]

riske is not an upgrade over a healthy mota. if mota reverts to his time with the dodgers then he is a much better pitcher than riske.

[schillingouttheks]

We are more sure of how Riske will do at this point than Mota. I'm not willing to gamble with Mota's injury and his failed physical. Riske is a good replacement no matter how you look at it.

[jsinger121]

he didn't fail his physical.....the Guardians raised questions over mota's shoulder. the red sox told the Guardians everything about mota.

[riverside sluggers]

As it stands right now, Cleveland almost shut down a deal of getting Marte just because of concerns over Mota, Sox have to throw in insurance in case he goes on the DL. Thats pretty big, and puts a question mark over his head for the entire 2006 season.

[schillingouttheks]

he didn't fail his physical.....the Guardians raised questions over mota's shoulder. the red sox told the Guardians everything about mota.

Bro... you even posted this:

i had a feeling mota would fail his physical considering he never even took one for boston.

 

In this thread:

http://www.talksox.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5275

[jsinger121]

i said that before we knew the real story and i assumed when i heard the radio report that he failed his physical which was not true.

[MC Hammer]

i said that before we knew the real story and i assumed when i heard the radio report that he failed his physical which was not true.

This has got to be the 2nd or 3rd time you've been cited contradicting yourself.

[Mr Crunchy]

mota couldnt win the closers job in montreal with steve kline as his competetion a couple years ago...he had a 4.70 era last year in the national league which translates into L's in the american league

riske's american league #s are solid over the last 3 years

era high of 3.72 in 04 with

an era low of 2.29 in 03 and a very respectable 3.07 last year

 

they needed a .300 hitting centerfielder with a little pop

they got 1 on the cheap and a young 1 at that

 

before anyone crowns marte the mvp winner lets see him play an entire year in the big leagues...

he has tremendous upside however

atlanta has a good record with player development and they dumped him for edgar rentaria??

 

that in itself smells.

[jsinger121]

when i posted that it was reported that he failed his phyisical with the Guardians even though he didn't really fail it. the Guardians raised questions in order to get more out of boston. the red sox did the same thing with the marlins in the beckett deal.

[MC Hammer]

atlanta has a good record with player development and they dumped him for edgar rentaria??

 

that in itself smells.

I think it's a smart move. Rents is going to have a big bounce back 06, and the Braves are litterally exploding with young talent.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, Bostonw asn't the right place for Edgar, he should do fine in the NL where he had been his whole career, I wish the best of luck to him. Now hopefully, the two Marlins can bounce back from horrible years to their normal selves, combining for 40 or 50 HRs.

[TheRivernator]

not gonna happen. Here is the funny thing, so many people are saying that Lowell was hurt by his park, but he was actually better in florida last yr than he was on the road....

[riverside sluggers]

not gonna happen.

 

god i cant wait for the season to actually start, enough of this ******** "those players are gonna fail for you, yada yada yada"