Michael or Kobe?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

So according to GIARSF....

 

Kobe > MJ

Manning > Brady

 

What's next?

 

Lowe > Clemens

[god is a redsox FAN]

Yeah performing well in the playoffs is kind of a prerequisite which you have to have to be in this discussion. You can't just toss it aside like it means nothing. Manning has beat Brady once and that was during the low part of our season. Guys had just begun to get injured and our secondary hadn't had a chance to gel as a group.

good freakin point, it was when your defense was injuried. Im fed up with people saying manning only beat Brady once, NO he only beat the PATS def. , and Billicheck once. Brady and Manning never face off.

[god is a redsox FAN]

and that is true about the playoffs, but that's what makes Montana and Young still better then Manning. He hasn't won a superbowl, those 2 have. They are the best of the best too. Playoffs is a lot, but i think its that Pats D, and Billicheck, that won those superbowls. Not to mention a fairy lil kicker

[YanksHater213]

Ayo this isnt about football. Stop changing the subject so you dont have to get owned on your ridiculous "Kobe > MJ" opinion. MJ owns him, and everyone proved you wrong.

[schillingouttheks]

Brady: 10-1 in the playoffs, with no Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokeley (I'll leave Dallas Clark out because Ben Watson is damn good.)

Manning: 3-6 in the postseason.

 

You tell me who you'd rather have in a situation to make your team win. People who say Manning are blinded by his records. Brady holds postseason records, that is, he holds the records in positions where his team needs a win in the clutch. Brady > Manning. Brady > Delhomme too, just for kicks.

 

And oh yeah, god is a redsox FAN!, MJ won 6 championships with a supporting cast, and Kobe won 3 by himself? No.

 

Kobe's supporting cast by championship season:

 

'99-'00: Devean George, Brian Shaw, Rick Fox, Shaq, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Glen Rice, Tyronn Lue

 

'00-'01: Brian Shaw, Isaiah Rider, Shaq, Tyronn Lue, Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Devean George

 

'01-'02: Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Shaq, Devean George, Robert Horry, Brian Shaw, Mitch Richmond

 

Kobe had a supporting cast too, bud. MJ worked with less skilled players than Kobe did. Sure, not all of the players I named are big names, but they're all solid players who contributed to the success of the Lakers during those seasons.

 

MJ > Kobe. I don't even know why I wasted time with this post seeing as it's such a pointless argument.

[MC Hammer]

What the f*** 3 page discussion could possibly have gone on with this topic. This needs to be locked. This whole thread is spam.

[jsinger121]

MJ and I can't believe this question was even asked.

[Manny Goes Boom]

Wow. Just wow. It's MJ...WOW. Normally I would go into a huge rant about how pointless and irrational this is but people have already done my job.

[jsinger121]

until kobe wins a championship or 2 in the lead role instead of playing second fidel to shaq then maybe we can talk but i don't ever see that happening.

[MC Hammer]

until kobe wins a championship or 2 in the lead role instead of playing second fidel to shaq then maybe we can talk but i don't ever see that happening.

More like after he wins 6.

[Manny Goes Boom]

More like after he wins 6.

 

Bingo.

[jimmycarter05]

Brady: 10-1 in the playoffs, with no Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokeley (I'll leave Dallas Clark out because Ben Watson is damn good.)

Manning: 3-6 in the postseason.

 

You tell me who you'd rather have in a situation to make your team win. People who say Manning are blinded by his records. Brady holds postseason records, that is, he holds the records in positions where his team needs a win in the clutch. Brady > Manning. Brady > Delhomme too, just for kicks.

 

And oh yeah, god is a redsox FAN!, MJ won 6 championships with a supporting cast, and Kobe won 3 by himself? No.

 

Kobe's supporting cast by championship season:

 

'99-'00: Devean George, Brian Shaw, Rick Fox, Shaq, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Glen Rice, Tyronn Lue

 

'00-'01: Brian Shaw, Isaiah Rider, Shaq, Tyronn Lue, Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Devean George

 

'01-'02: Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Shaq, Devean George, Robert Horry, Brian Shaw, Mitch Richmond

 

Kobe had a supporting cast too, bud. MJ worked with less skilled players than Kobe did. Sure, not all of the players I named are big names, but they're all solid players who contributed to the success of the Lakers during those seasons.

 

MJ > Kobe. I don't even know why I wasted time with this post seeing as it's such a pointless argument.

 

 

I'm good friends with Ben Watson's little brother, Asa Waston, he goes to school at South Pointe right here in Rock Hill, SC and I go to school in Clover. We've been friends since Pre-K, just thought I'd say that.

 

Oh yeah, MJ owns Kobe badly.

[yankeessuck013]

maybe this would make for a better discussion, What's more impressive? Kobe Bryant getting 81 points on 46 shots, or JJ Redick getting 40 points, on only 13 shots?

[RedRuffing15]

Michael Jordan

 

http://members.aol.com/oneil1231/images/jordan%20clip%202.gif

 

http://members.aol.com/oneil1231/images/jordan%20clip.gif

 

http://members.aol.com/oneil1231/images/jordan3.gif

 

http://members.aol.com/oneil1231/images/jordan6.gif

 

Vince Who?

http://members.aol.com/oneil1231/images/jordan5.gif

[Manny Goes Boom]

maybe this would make for a better discussion, What's more impressive? Kobe Bryant getting 81 points on 46 shots, or JJ Redick getting 40 points, on only 13 shots?

 

Redick OBVIOUSLY. But I'm not bais or anything.

[yankeessuck013]

Kobe gets props for 81, but Redick also shot 85% from the field, going 8 for 10 from 3 point land. Thats pretty impressive, though he will never be able to do anything close in the Pros.

 

They actual still play this thing called "defense" in college

 

On the other hand, The college 3 point line is a chip shot and the Duke offense is designed to set endless screens for Redick on a much longer shot clock.

[Manny Goes Boom]

Kobe gets props for 81, but Redick also shot 85% from the field, going 8 for 10 from 3 point land. Thats pretty impressive, though he will never be able to do anything close in the Pros.

 

They actual still play this thing called "defense" in college

 

On the other hand, The college 3 point line is a chip shot and the Duke offense is designed to set endless screens for Redick on a much longer shot clock.

 

I wouldn't say he wont be able to do anything close in the pros. IMO he's another Reggie Miller. If he lands on a team that needs a shooter or is set up to have one or some, like Phoenix (THAT would be unbeilevable ) he could get up a ton of threes, and make a bunch. And remember also, that when he shoots his threes, alot of them are from like 4-6 feet behind the college line, and that easily equals pro distance.

[See Red]

Wilt Chamberlain is the best ever.

 

The day somebody else averages 50 points and 26 rebounds in a season in an age in which rules are put in place to prevent their domination, rather than to promote it, like with Jordan, then they we can talk about who's the best ever.

[26 to 6]

Wilt Chamberlain is the best ever.

 

The day somebody else averages 50 points and 26 rebounds in a season in an age in which rules are put in place to prevent their domination, rather than to promote it, like with Jordan, then they we can talk about who's the best ever.

Well said.

[MC Hammer]

Wilt Chamberlain is the best ever.

 

The day somebody else averages 50 points and 26 rebounds in a season in an age in which rules are put in place to prevent their domination, rather than to promote it, like with Jordan, then they we can talk about who's the best ever.

Well when you're 7 foot tall and theres no one else over 6'8" in the league, and theres no 3 in the key ... ya I could score 50 points too.

[MC Hammer]

Kobe gets props for 81, but Redick also shot 85% from the field, going 8 for 10 from 3 point land. Thats pretty impressive, though he will never be able to do anything close in the Pros.

 

They actual still play this thing called "defense" in college

 

On the other hand, The college 3 point line is a chip shot and the Duke offense is designed to set endless screens for Redick on a much longer shot clock.

Two things. JJ is going to have a very successful NBA career. He's not going to be the headliner for any team, but he's going to be a great compliment to whatever team he goes to's #1.

 

As for the screens JJ gets. JJ get atleast one screen every play, but he still has to get himself open, by himself, almost every time he gets the ball. A screen can only take out 1 defender, and JJ is always doubled, if not triple teamed.

 

The 3 point line is what ... 1 foot closer in college than it is the NBA? And JJ has been known to knock down 3's 2 steps past half court. If anything is going to hurt his pro career it's not the 3 point line being a foot further out.

[See Red]

Well when you're 7 foot tall and theres no one else over 6'8" in the league, and theres no 3 in the key ... ya I could score 50 points too.

 

Walt Bellamy of the Knicks was 6'11" -- how often do you hear about his dominance? I take it you discount all players because of physical advantages? Shaq isn't as good because there's nobody that can match him in terms of strength?

 

The NBA put rules into place to try and make Wilt Chamberlain less dominant... when did they EVER do that for Jordan?

 

The bottomline is that Wilt Chamberlain dominated the game like nobody else ever has. That makes him the best.

[MC Hammer]

Walt Bellamy of the Knicks was 6'11" -- how often do you hear about his dominance? I take it you discount all players because of physical advantages? Shaq isn't as good because there's nobody that can match him in terms of strength?

 

The NBA put rules into place to try and make Wilt Chamberlain less dominant... when did they EVER do that for Jordan?

 

The bottomline is that Wilt Chamberlain dominated the game like nobody else ever has. That makes him the best.

No, no, no, no. You got me wrong. All I'm saying is that it's much easier to score when you can see over everyone on the court, and you don't have to leave the paint. Of course I think Wilt was a great player, but for Jordan to score he has to do a lot more work than Wilt. You could litterally hand Wilt the ball and he could just set it in the hoop without even leaving his feet.

 

Well big difference between the NBA putting in rules to stop Wilt and not Jordan. The NBA had never seen a player like Wilt before so there was no need for the rule before him. There were a bunch of guys who did what Jordan did, not as well mind you, before he got into the league. So that is not a fair statement.

 

Considering the rule about 3 in the key wasn't around until after Wilt had his 100 point game you'd have to say he had an advantage over Jordan on the offense right? Well Jordan scored more points.

 

If you can't look at MJ's great career, and his 6 championships, and see that he is clearly the best player in the history of the game then your just kidding yourself.

[See Red]

Jordan also had another one of the NBA 50 Greatest Players wearing that Bulls jersey when he did. Wilt had to compete with the Celtics dynasty (8 Hall of Famers throughout the 13 years in which they won 11 Titles), in which the playoff losses were hardly his fault, having average 30 points and 28 rebounds per game -- both better than Bill Russell. Still managed two titles.

 

Who cares who scored more total points? They both averaged 30.1 PPG, so Jordan's career total can be attributed to longevity.

 

At his best... Jordan's numbers couldn't touch Wilt's. 50 PPG, 26 RBG. In the shadow of his 100 point game is his record of 55 Rebounds in a single game against Bill Russell.

[MC Hammer]

Jordan also had another one of the NBA 50 Greatest Players wearing that Bulls jersey when he did. Wilt had to compete with the Celtics dynasty (8 Hall of Famers throughout the 13 years in which they won 11 Titles), in which the playoff losses were hardly his fault, having average 30 points and 28 rebounds per game -- both better than Bill Russell. Still managed two titles.

Yeah good arguement Wilt only had ... Jerry West, and Elgin Baylor ... . Not to mention ... who was Scottie Pippen before Jordan? and after Jordan? Exactly.

 

Who cares who scored more total points? They both averaged 30.1 PPG, so Jordan's career total can be attributed to longevity.

Lets see whats harder? Holding the ball above the hoop and dropping it in, or hitting fade away 3's. Yeah I think Jordan may have worked just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitle harder for his points.

 

At his best... Jordan's numbers couldn't touch Wilt's. 50 PPG, 26 RBG. In the shadow of his 100 point game is his record of 55 Rebounds in a single game against Bill Russell.

Well how do you expect a guard to get 26 rebounds? And I'll say it again. Whats harder? Scoring inside the paint, or outside?

[See Red]

Yeah good arguement Wilt only had ... Jerry West, and Elgin Baylor ... . Not to mention ... who was Scottie Pippen before Jordan? and after Jordan? Exactly.

 

Yeah, on the tail end of their careers. And he certainly didn't have them for ten years.

 

Then again, I'm not the one saying that team accomplishments can be attributed to one person. Jordan didn't win any Championships until they got Scottie Pippen and some damn good roleplayers around him. And, like I said, Chamberlain had to compete with the Celtics rivalry -- teams that one could argue are better than any teams the Bulls assembled.

 

And there was no Scottie Pippen before Jordan, he was drafted to the Bulls in '88. Regardless, the NBA considers him one of the 50 Greatest Players ever to play in the league. So... what exactly did Jordan win before Scottie Pippen got there? 108 wins as compared to 138 losses.

 

 

Lets see whats harder? Holding the ball above the hoop and dropping it in, or hitting fade away 3's. Yeah I think Jordan may have worked just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitle harder for his points.

 

Fade-away 3's? surely you're not talking about the Jordan that averaged .5 3-Pointers per game over his career, are you? .1 in his highest scoring years. Surely one could argue that Chamberlain's numbers are a littler lower because of the 8 shots per game he took over his last 2 seasons. You don't think Jordan got some easy points in his career? 12 free throws a game during his best scoring year. Here's an interesting stat... Jordan's career high is 8 assists per game over a season. Wilt managed to get 8.6 in '68. Not bad for a big man, eh?

 

Well how do you expect a guard to get 26 rebounds? And I'll say it again. Whats harder? Scoring inside the paint, or outside?

 

Let's not act like working down low is easy points. I never said I expect a guard to get 26 rebounds -- but Jordan didn't exactly match his 50 points, either.

[god is a redsox FAN]

I totally have to agree with See Red, After looking at the numbers and everything, I think Red just sat everyone down, and he totatlly agreed with me, at the fact that Jordan had Pippen.

[See Red]

I should add...

 

Those of you that like to think in terms of Championships (and ignore the team surrounding a player), where's the love for Bill Russell and his 11 Championships in 13 seasons? Or do Championships only apply in some cases?

[He Hate Me]

I didnt even know we were discussing Russell. I thought this was simply a thread between Kobe and MJ.

[See Red]

I didnt even know we were discussing Russell. I thought this was simply a thread between Kobe and MJ.

 

More or less, yes, but since that answer is fairly obvious, I'm debating those that feel MJ is the best ever. I've read a lot of things in this thread about rings and championships and that's why he's the greatest. I didn't bring up Bill Russell to say he's the greatest ever -- he's not. Some feel that deciding who the greatest of all-time was consists of counting Championships. it doesn't.