Any Manny News?

[MC Hammer]

Nothing left to prove? People have said all the time that this guy chokes in the big games. Big games prove that your a GREAT picture. Not a very good one. If Roger comes back and wins a WS with the Red Sox then people can put away his case as a "good one but not a great one." He can even start hearing talks as being one of the best pitchers EVER. To say he has nothing to prove is something to laugh at. Sure he has all these great career records but there will always be the fact that he chokes with the pressure on, but he can end it with winning a WS as a Red Sox.

If Roger coming back to the Sox means i have to listen to discussion about him being the best pitcher ever then I'll take a pass.

[elsrbueno]

well last i heard as of early this afternoon, the local radio station XTRA mentioned that there had been a potential deal with the angels on the backburner, but when push came shove, boston was asking for santana, figgins, and 4 top angel prospects. obviously stoneman balked at paying that price... but as time goes by, they're gonna have to answer tough questions as to why they have refused to aquire another power hitter going back to the last trading deadline when they faded offensively heading into the playoffs.

 

If the Sox could get Santana, Figgins, and 2 top angel prospects (along the lines of Wood/Kendrick/Morales/Kotchman) I'd pull the trigger on that deal in a heartbeat.

 

I wonder if the Angels would also be interested in David Wells. Anaheim would be an agreeable destination for David and they could use his veteran arm.

 

The chance to get Santana (a future ace), Figgins (a utility guy who can do damage as an everyday player), and any 2 of those guys mentioned would be stupid to pass up.

[Americal Man]

bringing Clemens back will just disrupt a clubhouse that will reasonably calm this year. Thanks for the memories and we'll probably retire your #21 but you are not what we need right now; another Pedro with special privileges.

 

keep manny because as much as he is a space cadet, he will get over his desire to be traded until at least August. thenrthey can restart the annual charade to attempt to trade him.

[MC Hammer]

If the Sox could get Santana, Figgins, and 2 top angel prospects (along the lines of Wood/Kendrick/Morales/Kotchman) I'd pull the trigger on that deal in a heartbeat.

 

I wonder if the Angels would also be interested in David Wells. Anaheim would be an agreeable destination for David and they could use his veteran arm.

 

The chance to get Santana (a future ace), Figgins (a utility guy who can do damage as an everyday player), and any 2 of those guys mentioned would be stupid to pass up.

I dunno if I'd be so quick to pull that trigger. I understand Santana's potential is sky high, but so was Kris Benson's. Now I think I could make this deal if there was an impact player involved but, don't get me wrong cause I love the guy, Chone Figgins isn't exactly an impact player.

 

I just don't think I could live with us trading away one of the best hitters in the game for a utility man, a young pitcher, and some spects. It's just not enough no matter how good Santana is or is going to be.

 

If we make that trade we're the 3rd place team in the East atleast this year and next, and no where close to the playoffs.

 

If your willing to sacrafice the now for the future ... I guess it's a good trade.

[elsrbueno]

I dunno if I'd be so quick to pull that trigger. I understand Santana's potential is sky high, but so was Kris Benson's. Now I think I could make this deal if there was an impact player involved but, don't get me wrong cause I love the guy, Chone Figgins isn't exactly an impact player.

 

I just don't think I could live with us trading away one of the best hitters in the game for a utility man, a young pitcher, and some spects. It's just not enough no matter how good Santana is or is going to be.

 

If we make that trade we're the 3rd place team in the East atleast this year and next, and no where close to the playoffs.

 

If your willing to sacrafice the now for the future ... I guess it's a good trade.

 

I see where you're coming from, and I'll admit that my distaste for Manny Ramirez has my judgment clouded a bit, but I see Chone Figgins as an impact guy. In Anaheim last year, he hit .290 with a .352 OBP. No, he's not a power guy, but he had 642 ABs last year-- this guy is an EVERYDAY player without a true position yet. He also had 10 triples, 8 homers, and stole 62 bases last year-- this guy's a born leadoff hitter and would thrive in Boston.

 

He played 50 games in centerfield last year and I wouldn't think twice about throwing him out there again (and shifting Crisp to left or vise versa). The only issue I see with this is protection for Ortiz. We go away from being the slow pitch softball team we've been since before any of us were born, and become the go-go Red Sox.

 

Figgins, Loretta, Ortiz, Lowell, Nixon, Varitek, Crisp, Youk, Gonzalez (assuming he signs)

 

Personally I'd love that team..... If Lowell falls flat on his face (which I don't think is going to happen) the team has the money to acquire another bat, and the flexibility to get it in either third base, or left/center because Figgins could step in and play third. Add Santana to the pitching staff at the back end of the rotation and 2 big time prospects.... I'd still give us a shot at the wild card in 06 and a team that's just getting better from year to year.....

[jsinger121]

the angels will never trade santana and figgins plus two top prospects for manny. bill stoneman is very tough to deal with as he won't part with any of his good prospects or players. he likely will come back with well you have to take erstad and cabrera and assume their entire contracts if you want this prospect(s). ain't happening. the sox are not trading manny this close to the season. if teams did not want to give equal value back in november and december they surely won't now.

[MC Hammer]

I see where you're coming from, and I'll admit that my distaste for Manny Ramirez has my judgment clouded a bit, but I see Chone Figgins as an impact guy. In Anaheim last year, he hit .290 with a .352 OBP. No, he's not a power guy, but he had 642 ABs last year-- this guy is an EVERYDAY player without a true position yet. He also had 10 triples, 8 homers, and stole 62 bases last year-- this guy's a born leadoff hitter and would thrive in Boston.

 

He played 50 games in centerfield last year and I wouldn't think twice about throwing him out there again (and shifting Crisp to left or vise versa). The only issue I see with this is protection for Ortiz. We go away from being the slow pitch softball team we've been since before any of us were born, and become the go-go Red Sox.

 

Figgins, Loretta, Ortiz, Lowell, Nixon, Varitek, Crisp, Youk, Gonzalez (assuming he signs)

 

Personally I'd love that team..... If Lowell falls flat on his face (which I don't think is going to happen) the team has the money to acquire another bat, and the flexibility to get it in either third base, or left/center because Figgins could step in and play third. Add Santana to the pitching staff at the back end of the rotation and 2 big time prospects.... I'd still give us a shot at the wild card in 06 and a team that's just getting better from year to year.....

The only problem with your plan is Ortiz. Whats the point of even having him on the team if the plan is to be to go-go Red Sox? He'll either be walked every single time like BB or he'll never get a pitch to hit. Now, you may think it's a good thing that he'd likely be on base more, but if you want to be a small ball team, a runner like Ortiz could completely kill your plans every time he is on first. As a guy who grew up on NL baseball I like small ball and I think it's good to have small ball players. But to try and go from raw power to small ball in 1 year just isn't possible IMO. You can get the pieces to make your small ball team in 1 year, but I dont know if you can adapt to that system and completely buy into it this close to spring training.

 

I'm all up for what makes the Red Sox better and if this in the end makes us better than I'm all for it, but if I'm not for throwing 2006 away to put in a system for 2007.

 

For the record I think small ball is the future. I just don't think now is the time to convert.

[jimmycarter05]

Another idea is to trade for Dallas McPherson, he's not going to get to play with the Angels to much, we could put him in AAA and call him up halfway through if Lowell sucks or something else happens, I don't think it would be to much either, maybe Murphy.

[jsinger121]

the angels will not be trading dallas mcpherson for david murphy and you can quote me on that. mcpherson was a top prospect who got hurt and is recovering. murphy as of now has been a first round bust who is slowly turning it around. bill stoneman never trades his prospects.

[guapo34]

The only problem with your plan is Ortiz. Whats the point of even having him on the team if the plan is to be to go-go Red Sox? He'll either be walked every single time like BB or he'll never get a pitch to hit. Now, you may think it's a good thing that he'd likely be on base more, but if you want to be a small ball team, a runner like Ortiz could completely kill your plans every time he is on first. As a guy who grew up on NL baseball I like small ball and I think it's good to have small ball players. But to try and go from raw power to small ball in 1 year just isn't possible IMO. You can get the pieces to make your small ball team in 1 year, but I dont know if you can adapt to that system and completely buy into it this close to spring training.

 

I'm all up for what makes the Red Sox better and if this in the end makes us better than I'm all for it, but if I'm not for throwing 2006 away to put in a system for 2007.

 

For the record I think small ball is the future. I just don't think now is the time to convert.

 

The idea that a healthy David Ortiz could be a liability in any line-up is terribly misguided. If he got walk every time he got up, we'd score more runs than if he was always pitched to. I'd be surprised if anyone in the history of the game has hit enough to help his team more than he would if he walked every time up.

 

The Red Sox are placing a bigger emphasis on defense, but as long as Theo is running the team, or John Henry owns it for that matter, getting on base will always be more important than speed on the basepaths.

[MC Hammer]

The idea that a healthy David Ortiz could be a liability in any line-up is terribly misguided. If he got walk every time he got up, we'd score more runs than if he was always pitched to. I'd be surprised if anyone in the history of the game has hit enough to help his team more than he would if he walked every time up.

 

The Red Sox are placing a bigger emphasis on defense, but as long as Theo is running the team, or John Henry owns it for that matter, getting on base will always be more important than speed on the basepaths.

Not a liability. Just a log jam on the bases. Obviously his walks are going to help out ... sometimes, but other times ... when our offense is asleep and we really need some small ball ... it's going to kill us. A small ball team needs to move runners by other means than banging balls into the gap so Ortiz can trot around. Your not going to be able to sac bunt him over unless you lay down a perfect bunt every time. Can't move him over with a ground ball. Can't go 1st to 3rd. Can't tag from 2nd and go to 3rd. And remember we dont have a big bopper coming up behind him for and XBH.

[guapo34]

Not a liability. Just a log jam on the bases. Obviously his walks are going to help out ... sometimes, but other times ... when our offense is asleep and we really need some small ball ... it's going to kill us. A small ball team needs to move runners by other means than banging balls into the gap so Ortiz can trot around. Your not going to be able to sac bunt him over unless you lay down a perfect bunt every time. Can't move him over with a ground ball. Can't go 1st to 3rd. Can't tag from 2nd and go to 3rd. And remember we dont have a big bopper coming up behind him for and XBH.

but in the long run, he helps you more than he hurts you. Theres probably one player in major league history whose smallball game translates to more runs than Ortiz's game, and thats only because he was great at getting on base. No bunter/basestealer helps an offense more than Ortiz, no matter what offense.

 

Also, the Red Sox are routinely in the bottom 3 in the league in both bunts and steals. 3 years in a row they've led all of baseball in runs scored. Why do you think this needs to change and why do you think its going to change?

[The Monster is my Mom]

If Manny was traded, Big Papi would get walked so much. He might not break BB's record, but it would kill our offense.

[guapo34]

Manny no longer hitting would kill our offense, not the walks to Ortiz. Of course, you'd have to consider what we got for Manny. One possible Manny trade scenario I could see is if the Angels were willing to move Brandon Wood. As the two stand now the Sox would probably want something else in the deal too.

 

The Angels aren't big on trading prospects, so its a longshot. But i would love to see the Sox get Brandon Wood. You never know what the Angels might do if they're in 3rd place at the beggining of June.

[jsinger121]

if they are in third place in june they will be promoting their prospects not trading them. they are close enough to the big leagues where they will be able to contribute very soon. stoneman never trades his prospects and i doubt he will if they are struggling in june.

[guapo34]

I don't think they can bench their vets that easily. If they were the type of team to do that, then Darrin Erstad must be blackmailing someone for playing time. Erstad makes a lot of money and Scocia definately likes him. I don't see him being benched. The Angels tried to give away Ocab according to Gammons and couldn't do it. I don't think they'll pay him $16 million for 2 years to sit on the bench. Chone figgins, Garret Anderson, and Vlad are also gonna be in the lineup.

 

Also, their farm system is so deep, they have prospects blocking prospects, especially in the middle. 3rd place isn't exactly out of contention in June. I still don't think its likely, just possible.

[jsinger121]

erstad is moving back to center to open first for kotchman.....stoneman never trades his prospects. he will not be moving the likes of brandon wood, howie kenrick, morales, aybar, mathis and others. the angels have tons of talent on the verge of the bigs. they won't move them and mortgage the future. they have too much talent in those minor league players who will play a vital role in their future.

[kreinbihl34]

erstad is moving back to center to open first for kotchman.....stoneman never trades his prospects. he will not be moving the likes of brandon wood, howie kenrick, morales, aybar, mathis and others. the angels have tons of talent on the verge of the bigs. they won't move them and mortgage the future. they have too much talent in those minor league players who will play a vital role in their future.

 

Sp your saying the Angels have a surplus of talent of the minors right? Then wy wouldn't you trade 3 to 4 of them to get the best right handed hitter in the game? If I had all these guys in the minors waiting to come up and I already have a a couple of players that will be in place for awhile I would trade for Manny and I would even relate what happened to the Angels last season when they needed a big bat. So if we can get spects, and still keep are offense in the middle the of MLB I would do this but while searching for a another bat, such as Huff

[jsinger121]

the thing is we cannot get these prospects even for manny. bill stoneman the angels GM will not part with them. if he would manny would have probably been gone already.

[schillingouttheks]

A large amount of future successful prospects is more valuable to a team like the Angels. They have Vlad in their OF, and they compete every year. If they keep these top prospects their success will only continue on top of what it is now. I totally understand keeping the prospects.

 

Plus Manny's contract is a bitch and a half, and Manny's a headache in himself.

[guapo34]

the thing is we cannot get these prospects even for manny. bill stoneman the angels GM will not part with them. if he would manny would have probably been gone already.

 

You've said bill stoneman won't trade his prospects 4 times in 2 pages. We understand you think this. I never said it was likely. I just think that the Angels are a boarderline playoff team that become the clear favorites with Manny. They have multiple prospects and would not be mortgaging their future by trading a couple. With this all being true, I could see the Angels as a possible landing spot. I have a hard time believing the Angels GM ignores the improvements he could make to his team this year and refuses to trade prospects, some of which are blocked at the major league level. Your argument that Manny would be gone already if the Angles were to trade for him makes no sense. Things change all the time. Look at how long it took to construct the Coco Crisp deal.

 

Once again, no need to remind us you think bill stoneman never trades prospects. We get it, thats your position.

[jsinger121]

if stoneman were to trade brandon wood, howie kenrick and ervin santana to the red sox for manny the sox would have jumped all over that immediately

[The Monster is my Mom]

I don't think Manny will ever get traded because no one wants/can afford that monster contract he has. Unless the Sox ate a big part of it, which seems kinda dumb.

[ACL BoSox]

I think he's under contract til 2008... lets just ride it out...

[jsinger121]

i agree.....no team is willing to give anything close to equal value for manny thus the red sox are better off keeping him until his contract runs out.